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#1 Edited by indianajonze (9 posts) -

The host from tested has said it. The guys from most of your news sites Have said it. A whole handfull of snarky posters and PCgamers have also said it.

"I'm just gonna buy a new video card for 500"

really?

is that so?

You think that being slumped over a keyboard is a non-issue? you think that your friends really wanna come over with drinks and grubb...to sit huddled around your computer desk? You think that somehow just slapping in a new piece of hardware means that you WON'T have to then upgrade the CPU and the memory to take full advantage of the new video card?

Look, the consoles are an example of a closed environment (ie: MAC's). This means that when developers program for it, they can streamline everything for the exact configuration you have. This allows them to pull out way better performance than would normally be granted with the same hardware in a PC environment. The PC environment is plagued with unkowns. unkown brands, unkown configs, unkown updates and software version....unkowns.

Will the PC versions of games look a % better in 4 years than their console counterparts? yes. Undoubtedly. because they are newer hardware. newer and more expensive hardware.

It really irritates me when someone makes a statement that only addresses the surface of a discussion...especially in the attempt to be dismissive.

#2 Edited by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

One thing though, now I didn't study rocketscience and even I have hooked my PC up to a TV so when I have friends over we don't actually have to sit around my work desk and look at a tiny 24" monitor.
Just thought I'd let you know that we also have that option on PCs just to make it more comfortable to play PC games, watch movies, stream.. cat videos on youtube, I don't know

#3 Edited by zFUBARz (627 posts) -

Well for your first point at least, Will at Tested, Vinny and others of the GB crew have PC's hooked directly to their TV 's in the living room. So you know not exactly anti social and actually pretty feasible in a world where big picture mode exists.

As for the second part, These guys mostly already have PC's that are far more powerful than what is needed for anything out today, A video card as the thing that costs as much as the rest of the computer combined is usually the bottleneck if you've built your computer in the last couple years.

#4 Edited by GERALTITUDE (3337 posts) -

Well, yeah, ok, but here:

1. PC players want to play alone. Every PC game I play is one that I *want* to huddle close to the screen, in a dark room, with head phones on. Huddled over a keyboard is a positive statement.
2. Couch co-op / vs is rarely on the minds of tech heads. I love it, and agree with you, and again, yes, PCs suck at this part. Though LAN parties were sweet.
3. Some people actually just care more about frames per second, tessellation and hair FXs than they do the content of games. They suck, but they still exist. If they want to miss out on 1st party games (and RDR), often some of the best games on any console/pc/tablet/platform - fine, let them.
4. PC ownership is about pride. Building your rig. Spending too much money. Upgrading it. Customizing it. Many will never be convinced that consoles can do special things. Ironically, though many PC users are very tech savy, their egotistical brains get in the way of them realizing that games like Halo 4 and the Last of Us are more impressive than any PC game released in the last 5 years. SEE, LISTEN TO THEM GET MAD.

#5 Edited by Brendan (7813 posts) -

I see your point that consoles are traditionally a more social platform by nature of the environment they're usually situated in, but for super nerds hooking a PC to a TV ain't no thing.

#6 Posted by GERALTITUDE (3337 posts) -

@zeforgotten, @zfubarz: you duders totally ignored the point! Just because you have your PC tied to your living room TV doesn't mean your friends can play with you. How many PC games support couch co-op or even pass and play? Like it or not consoles destroy computers in this respect.

#7 Posted by Quantris (268 posts) -

FYI, the main advantage for a dev in terms of console vs pc is not really the uniform hardware, but rather the focused architecture of a console. Since the whole system is designed around pumping out 60 fps at hd resolutions, many of the inefficiencies that come with a typical pc's compartmentalized design are eliminated, and you can get performance out of relatively mature and inexpensive parts.

That said, pc gamers probably won't need to upgrade anything in order to achieve next gen console fidelity. Most will probably want to max out resolution though...

#8 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4352 posts) -

If I wanted a more social gaming experience at home with friends then yeah sure, a console would be the way to go, but I don't give a shit about that so hell yeah PC is the path for me.

PC isn't for everyone, I just see it as a platform for...well for lack of a better term, more "hardcore" game players because they don't mind jumping through a couple extra hoops to get the best possible experience out of the games they want to play. Consoles are great for people who don't give a shit about that.

Good on Will Smith though for throwing out that video card comment, it gets similar people like the OP here up in arms and in a tissy that it's funny to watch.

#9 Posted by AiurFlux (902 posts) -

*unknown

Lrn2spllb4makinpoint

And I don't need new video cards. I know, for a matter of fact, that I'll be able to play every single game for the next 3 years at least at max settings at a resolution over 1080p. Having a console is fine for friends, as you suggest, but I'd propose that in the current market most people will play over PSN or XBL. So it really isn't that much of a difference. I'm sorry but I'm not going to drive 30 minutes to go over to a friends place to play couch co-op when I can stay at home and do it over PSN, XBL, or Steam. On the weekend maybe, and even then I'd rather do something different than play games... like fuel my alcoholism and need to shake my ass. Or get laid.

#10 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

cat videos

This right here is why the PC is still a generation ahead. Mark my words, the PS5 and XBONE2 will have cat video technology.

#11 Edited by FengShuiGod (1486 posts) -

I'm not sure that consoles are more social. I mean, most social media is over PC, amirite?

Of course, getting together with friends to play games in your house is better suited to a console, but I find that since I have gotten more and more into my 20s, that actually happens less and less. If friends are coming over, it's no longer for a 6 hour Halo session. However, it is easier for me to play online with friends who have PCs. I guess it is about the company you keep, but I haven't had a LAN party since college years. I can play TF2 with some friends who are grownups now, who live in different parts of the country, who watch their sleeping one year old while playing. I'm not trying to marginalize console gamers as immature adolescents, I'm just saying that PC gaming doesn't have to be less social than console gaming and that it can suit different needs.

A common complaint that irks me about PCs is that they are more expensive. I mean, most people who have a non-gaming computer have spent, what, $500-$1100 dollars on a computer anyways? My gaming rig cost me $1300 a few years ago and spending $399 will enable me to run new games games at max settings for awhile. Compare a $600 dollar laptop + the cost of a 360 or PS3 + the cost of a PS4, then factor in how little I pay for online ($0), and don't forget how much cheaper I can get games on the PC, and the PC suddenly becomes competitive w/r/t pricing even though it might cost me $1700-$2000 over the course of almost two generations.

I'm not fan boy enough to think that one solution works for everyone and there is nothing wrong with consoles (I love them!), but I think PCs are a lot more viable then people think.

#12 Edited by probablytuna (3668 posts) -

My friend and I just had a night of gaming with his laptop hooked up to my TV screen in the lounge playing LEGO LOTR and Marvel Ultimate Alliance. We don't need a console to have that same experience anymore.

#13 Edited by Boom_goes_the_dynamite (722 posts) -

This is driving you nuts!? Really...this!?

#14 Edited by ShaggE (6459 posts) -

Never mind any of that. Once a person passes judgment on another for enjoying a video game on a device that's different from theirs, they're no longer to be taken seriously anyway. Specifics don't matter. If someone gets worked up because Jimmy Bumslap in Greenbow, Alabama is playing a game on his console or PC instead of his PC or console, they have missed the entire point of the medium and are just using it as a feeble effort to feel superiority over somebody.

#15 Edited by Krenor (469 posts) -

@ravenlight said:

@zeforgotten said:

cat videos

This right here is why the PC is still a generation ahead. Mark my words, the PS5 and XBONE2 will have cat video technology.

you know that even the PS3 and 360 have youtube apps right? that's what I use went I want to show funny videos, no need to drag the PC over or get a crazy long HDMI cable.

#16 Edited by believer258 (11923 posts) -

Well, yeah, ok, but here:

1. PC players want to play alone. Every PC game I play is one that I *want* to huddle close to the screen, in a dark room, with head phones on. Huddled over a keyboard is a

positive

statement.

2. Couch co-op / vs is rarely on the minds of tech heads. I love it, and agree with you, and again, yes, PCs suck at this part. Though LAN parties were sweet.

3. Some people actually just care more about frames per second, tessellation and hair FXs than they do the content of games. They suck, but they still exist. If they want to miss out on 1st party games (and RDR), often some of the best games on any console/pc/tablet/platform - fine, let them.

4. PC ownership is about pride. Building your rig. Spending too much money. Upgrading it. Customizing it. Many will never be convinced that consoles can do special things. Ironically, though many PC users are very tech savy, their egotistical brains get in the way of them realizing that games like Halo 4 and the Last of Us are more impressive than any PC game released in the last 5 years. SEE, LISTEN TO THEM GET MAD.

THOSE GAMES SUCK! I CAN'T RUN THEM AT 60 FRAMES! ARGH!

You think that somehow just slapping in a new piece of hardware means that you WON'T have to then upgrade the CPU and the memory to take full advantage of the new video card?

...yes, actually. My current PC will be a year old in the coming months but I seriously doubt I'll need a new graphics card for at least another year, and I also doubt that I'll need a new processor or more RAM until 2015 at least. Yeah, I'll have to knock some settings down here and there when it gets long in the tooth, but whatever. My little brother manages to play Skyrim on medium on a cheap computer from 2008. We just put an HD 7770 in it and he's good to go for most things.

For the record, I said I wouldn't buy a console until a year or so after they all come out. But man, that PS4 does look pretty slick, from the games to the console itself to the DRM and the PS Plus benefits.

#17 Posted by MikkaQ (10294 posts) -

Yeah it's not a simple solution of buy a video card that costs as much as a console. That's only half the job. PCs are an incredibly expensive gaming platform. The people who like doing this are people with some serious disposable income and that's fine, but it's ignorant when they tell you it's something anyone can and should do. Especially when you can get a console that just works and plays well for 400 bucks.

#18 Edited by mosespippy (4189 posts) -

I'm no longer in college. I no longer have roommates. I don't have kids yet. The amount of couch coop that I do is very small because I don't have those kinds of people around as much as I once did. A PC sitting at my desk makes sense for me.

#19 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

@zeforgotten, @zfubarz: you duders totally ignored the point! Just because you have your PC tied to your living room TV doesn't mean your friends can play with you. How many PC games support couch co-op or even pass and play? Like it or not consoles destroy computers in this respect.

A lot, actually.
161 if you just set the filter to Couch Co-op

#20 Edited by HockeyJohnston (71 posts) -

I haven't seen jack from Sony or MS for couch-multiplayer. They're pushing games that make as much sense on PC as they do on a TV, so 'I'll just upgrade my graphics card and not lose my back catalog" is pretty relevant.

#21 Posted by Daveyo520 (6767 posts) -

People still play MP in real life with each other these days?

#22 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -
#23 Edited by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -

I'd be careful talking about optimizations and hardware if you aren't an engineer

#24 Posted by BaconGames (3423 posts) -

I can't speak for anyone else but Will said that to be coy. I don't think he seriously suggested people actually buy $500 video cards because no one should ever really do that anyway. PC is a platform that has only gotten more flexible in terms of "couch" co-op with big picture mode.

Honestly, with the 1080p limit ostensibly gone this next generation, the question really becomes which platform offers the better deal compared to my comparable PC from a few years ago. Once I upgrade though, I might go with the one that runs better/smoother and still looks good and that's that. Hard to say what that will be, because graphics features on PC will always be more demanding but not optimized as sharply as a console game. For me, all that matters is that gaming is finally 1080p across the board and we can look forward to console games optimized to run smoothly at that resolution and look great.

When taking budgets into consideration though, if someone is already heavily invested in PC (and doesn't have these hypothetical friends coming over all the time), then the suggestion of spending that cash on upgrading a PC isn't a new one. I know for my rig, which is starting to get a bit old here and there, spending $400 on a new video card and CPU would be a hell of an upgrade and make it great for a number of years. The only worry is that, well, I'll be upgrading again in 3 or so years. BUT THE VIDEO GAMES LOOK PRETTIER SO WHATEVER.

#25 Posted by indianajonze (9 posts) -

This is driving you nuts!? Really...this!?

no. this doesn't actually drive me nuts. It's a gaming forum. learn to conversate.

#26 Edited by indianajonze (9 posts) -

@you_died said:

I'd be careful talking about optimizations and hardware if you aren't an engineer

dually noted.

#27 Posted by MOAB (377 posts) -

u mad

#28 Posted by indianajonze (9 posts) -

@moab said:

u mad

no. but congrats on a wonderful internet meme none the less.

#29 Posted by MOAB (377 posts) -

ty

#30 Posted by 2HeadedNinja (1621 posts) -

Set aside the fact that Will was joking ... why on earth do you care? I like playing on a PC, I don't need couch coop, I can play plenty multiplayer over that internet thing kids these days are all excited about. By now everyone that would post in this forum knows all the arguments of PC vs Console and has made his/her choice. Nobody holds you back, buy a console and have fun, thats great, I'm happy for you (I really am, everyone should have fun gaming, thats kind of the point). But in the name of all that is holy don't make pointless posts like this, they contribute nothing.

#31 Posted by phantomzxro (1577 posts) -

I get your point when people are being snarky about it. But console platforms are slowing down when it comes to improvements and PC systems will always be able to reproduce the best results when it comes to that. I was considering switching to a pc if Sony would have followed suit with Xbox one DRM stuff. Now i can stick to ps4 and wii u as my go to systems.

#32 Posted by YOU_DIED (703 posts) -
#33 Edited by CaptainSandwich (75 posts) -

Ironically, though many PC users are very tech savy, their egotistical brains get in the way of them realizing that games like Halo 4 and the Last of Us are more impressive than any

PC game released in the last 5 years. SEE, LISTEN TO THEM GET MAD.

I don't see how Halo came up in your example... The Last of Us, yeah.

#34 Posted by Jams (2961 posts) -

Baby want a bottle?

#35 Posted by ThePickle (4184 posts) -

If I had friends over, I wouldn't bust out a XBONE or PS4 either. That's what a Gamecube and a copy of Super Smash Bros. Melee are for.

#36 Posted by Vinny_Says (5709 posts) -

Can you bring a pc outside to play on the front lawn when it's a hot sunny day or when you mom yells at you to go play outside?

That's the real question.

#37 Posted by Boom_goes_the_dynamite (722 posts) -

@boom_goes_the_dynamite said:

This is driving you nuts!? Really...this!?

no. this doesn't actually drive me nuts. It's a gaming forum. learn to conversate.

Hey I can use hyperbole too when it comes to things that only annoy me. For example, making something a bigger deal when it is simply annoying drives me nuts. See what I did there?

Now to actually conversate, I'd say I get what you are saying but taking Will Smith to task on it for a very flippant and clearly sarcastic comment is a bit much. Let's be honest for consoles, that aren't created by Nintendo, couch co-op or couch competition is essentially a dieing if not already dead breed, sad I know. I used to love, and still occasionally do enjoy, playing video games at a friend's house on their couch. But that's not what most games are trying to continue, they want you to play co-op with your buddy who also has a PS4, or they want you to be "pwning newbs" with your friends who also have a copy of the next Call of Duty on the XBox One. So although I too miss the days of playing games on the couch with friends, let's be honest here, those days are gone unless you get a Wii U and I just don't care enough to get one, I'd rather just voice chat with my buddies who are now miles away when I play on whatever console I get.

To take it back to Will Smith's statement, it was a PC elitist thing to say (not untrue though), but it also was a joke. He is a tech guy he understands the reason people would want a console because not everyone is putting a high end PC in their living room, I doubt I ever will.

In summation, don't let it bother you.

#38 Posted by Hunter5024 (5689 posts) -

I do tire of the occasional pc guy who gets a holier than thou attitude about the new consoles. Basically I believe that you should never be dismissive of things people care about, because it doesn't make you look cool, it makes you look smug. But if someone genuinely prefers playing on their pc, there are some good reasons for that, and I'm not about to criticize them for their choice either. Can everybody just be cool with other people liking stuff, no matter how different it is from what you like?

#39 Edited by Nivash (241 posts) -

Can you bring a pc outside to play on the front lawn when it's a hot sunny day or when you mom yells at you to go play outside?

That's the real question.

Yes, you actually can. You can totally play streamed PC games on a handheld these days. You'll even be able to buy a dedicated portable mid-range PC soon if you've got the cash.

Seriously though, we have seen some explosive development on the PC front during the last year or two. These days there is extensive support for effortlessly playing PC games pretty much the exact same way you play console games for those who want to - just hook your PC up to your TV, get yourself an Xbox 360 controller and that's pretty much it. At most you'll have to get an USB adapter if you want a wireless controller.

Almost every single multiplatform game released now support native gamepad controls. In many cases you don't even have to set it up - I finally got around to purchasing Witcher 2 after seeing the trailer for Witcher 3 this weekend: turned out even the launcher could be navigated with a controller. Hell, even PC only games that shouldn't be played on a gamepad, like the ARMA 3 Alpha, has native gamepad support now.

#40 Posted by 2HeadedNinja (1621 posts) -

I do tire of the occasional pc guy who gets a holier than thou attitude about the new consoles. Basically I believe that you should never be dismissive of things people care about, because it doesn't make you look cool, it makes you look smug. But if someone genuinely prefers playing on their pc, there are some good reasons for that, and I'm not about to criticize them for their choice either. Can everybody just be cool with other people liking stuff, no matter how different it is from what you like?

To be fair though, for the most part that reaction (and it exists, and as a PC game I agree it's annoying) is sort of a self-defence-mechanism that has developed over many years of "PC is dead", "consoles are more powerfull than any PC ever", "all PC gamers are pirates" etc.

I agree with you that everyone should just do what he/she enjoys, but we all are passionate about our hobby, thats why we are here, and that includes that we sometimes get defensive over the things we like. I'm not defending this behaviour, like I said it annoys me too, I'm just trying to give a little context.

#41 Posted by thatdutchguy (1273 posts) -

One thing though, now I didn't study rocketscience and even I have hooked my PC up to a TV so when I have friends over we don't actually have to sit around my work desk and look at a tiny 24" monitor.

Just thought I'd let you know that we also have that option on PCs just to make it more comfortable to play PC games, watch movies, stream.. cat videos on youtube, I don't know

This!

#42 Edited by joshwent (2208 posts) -

Look, the consoles are an example of a closed environment (ie: MAC's). This means that when developers program for it, they can streamline everything for the exact configuration you have. This allows them to pull out way better performance than would normally be granted with the same hardware in a PC environment. The PC environment is plagued with unkowns. unkown brands, unkown configs, unkown updates and software version....unkowns.

This is kind of misleading. PC development is undoubtedly more difficult because of the "unknowns" you mentioned, but performance problems aren't the result. Sometimes, a certain old video card might not be supported, or your computer is just too old to play the game, but that's not the developer's fault. It's the equivalent of saying, "Hey, this XOne game won't play on my 360!". It's outdated hardware. That's all. Most Minimum requirements to play modern PC games calls for hardware that's no more than like 4 years old.

And even then, PCs are more flexible. Mine is 6+ years old, crappy dual core 2.13 GHz CPU, 4 Gigs of ram, and a 3 year old $80 video card, and I just beat Arkham City with all of the settings (except AA) put to max.

And just think, when's the last time you read in a review, "DEFINITELY get this game on a console, clearly the unknowns of PC development made that version way worse.". Bad PC ports are ones that lack options which utilize the better hardware to improve the game from the console version. You don't see PC ports that look worse than the original. It's just not reality.

There are some good reasons that an individual might prefer the console gaming experience, but your argument just isn't one of them.

#43 Posted by TangoUp (307 posts) -

Yup, sitting at the desk, unreliability of gamepad support and the mouse and keyboard being cumbersome to use are what put me off of PCs. That and having to upgrade stuff every few months which apparently has slowed down.

#44 Posted by Jimbo7676 (716 posts) -

@indianajonze: I am primarly a pc gamer but I totally agree with you other than the desk part. I use a tv for my monitor. Being able to optimize on a console makes a huge difference and you cannot compare consumer prices for computer parts to the price of a console the manufacturer prices to sell at a loss.

#45 Edited by crusader8463 (14422 posts) -

He's obviously trolling folks. Move along. Don't drag yourself into this console war bickering with each other crap. You know what's right for you and what allows you to play the games you want the way you want. Everyone that tries to say you are wrong for liking the thing you like can suck a dick.

#46 Edited by SargeGulp (240 posts) -

@brendan: My n64 was social.

My 360 is as "anti"-social as my pc is.. unless we're talking about Rock Band.

#47 Edited by Brendan (7813 posts) -

@sargegulp: OK, cool, but your anecdote has no bearing on what I said.

#48 Posted by Bollard (5560 posts) -

@indianajonze: You know a PC with a $500 card (see: GTX 780) will look better now than the PS4/One will at launch, assuming you have an old i7 already anyway? Probably with an i5 too considering how unintensive console games are on CPU...

#49 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

The thing that's driving me nuts about these types of statements is the fact that it's the console market that sets the technological fundament for pretty much all major entertainment software development - so this new generation is highly pertinent to the PC player's interests as well.

Pretending that the PC space already had the experiences we'll get on these new generation of boxes prior to them establishing themselves on the market is a fallacy. I'm a PC player first and foremost these days, and it's still DX9 that's the common denominator for 99.9% of all games currently on the market, and it's only now that that will begin to change.

I'll challenge anyone to build a PC running these upcoming games as prettily and smoothly as the PS4 will for 399$ flat. It can't be done. The PS4 is an incredible value, for the effective results will surpass what you'd get out of a 1000$ PC. Upgrading your PC now is the stupidest thing one could do, at least that's how I'm seeing it.

#50 Posted by mason20 (159 posts) -

Really how can one have an issue with Will Smith? On topic though a lot of these points brought up by the TC are almost to a moot point at this time. Seeing as I don't need to use a mouse/keyboard for a game if i want to use a controller. Hell, I can even have couch coop with one playing a PS3 controller and another playing a 360 controller. I don't force people to huddle around a desk in fact I'm hooked up to a fairly nice size t.v. and the option of 2 couches and a comfy as hell chair.

I also like the fact that even though I'm am not the most tech savvy I rarely run into compatibility issues. I started the 360/PS3 (even so far back as the Sega Master System) generation as a staunch console player but I've been swayed over to the PC and have had not one single regret.

Why have an issue with personal taste? These consoles will still come out regardless of what Will says...