Am I the only person who doesn't like ExtraCreditz?

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SeriouslyNow

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#101  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@I_smell: Exaaactly.  That's not why they're different.  This isn't about a cultural divide when it comes to RPGs, it's about a different focus on gameplay, storytelling and mechanics because JRPGs were quite frankly, late to the party and being sold on their more popular machines; consoles - so they stayed within the same narrow, RAM limited focus which they took cues from,  WRPGs and JRPGs just evolved at different times from the same sources, namely Wizardry and Ultima, it's just that WRPGs started growing more quickly on PC where RAM was increasing exponentially.  Dark Sun, Menzoberaanzan and Darklands were the first games to start really pushing the hardware in terms of what was possible with RPGs while Japanese companies where just reinventing the Dungeon Crawler experience and refining it.  Sadly, since Nomura has bastardised Square's design focus Weeaboos confuse that with a Japanese cultural aspect when it's really nothing to do with the culture in any ancient or fundamental sense.  Like Akihabara or Harijuku it's just a fad which relates to the times, rather than the culture.  If Weeaboos think Nomura's RPG design fetish is Japanese culture then Hamburgers are American Culture.....except they're not; their English, German and French (rissoles) and whatever they are now in terms of modern culture really stems from a couple of brothers in the 50s who made them into an American cultural icon because it made good business sense to mass produce shit and sell it cheaply.  That's the modern JRPG; mass produced cheap shit which has been blown up and presented by a clown and his cohorts and that's also the modern Western FPS too mind you.  I'm not precious or racist.  Just honest.   Weeaboos aren't.  They're pretentious idiots who learn catchphrases of a culture they don't even bother to get to know at any deep or interesting level and then they repeat these things they've learned spasmodically, like some kind of cultural Tourrettes.  It's embarassing and really silly.
 
That's who Extra Credits really are.  That's what they're really about and that's why I really hate them.   
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TobbRobb

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#102  Edited By TobbRobb

@NegativeCero: I had mine in Amsterdam, at a place specialised in Pancakes, I can't recall the name though... I'd assume there would be more to find elsewhere though I've yet to encounter one in Sweden.

But really, pancakes are incredibly easy to make, just cook some up at home.

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NegativeCero

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#103  Edited By NegativeCero

@TobbRobb: Ah, well that's unfortunate as I live in the U.S. so I guess I'd have to look.

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iamjohn

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#104  Edited By iamjohn

@Tiwi said:

I'm sorry... I really didn't think something ment to inspire you to read about it yourself and come up with your own oppinions. They lay out their oppinions in such a way that if you object to any of them it's easy to counter them for youself. They're not always right, but nobody are. FFS I'm currently studying physics and everything has to be done in a fairly pretentious manner or I'd expect everyone who attends the same lectures i do to just constantly fall asleep.

But we aren't taking issue with their opinions, we're taking issue with the fact that their observations are facile. Again, look at the basic arguments of the Western vs. Japanese RPG episode - Extra Creditz argument begins and ends with "these are two different styles of games that come from two different places," ignoring most of the nuance of actually discussing the genre like how both spawned out of the Wizardry and Ultima games, why they diverged, the very different subject material and focuses that the divergence allowed to happen, etc. I feel like you're focusing on the idea of it being pretentious because they're talking about big ideas and deeply breaking down something as simple and trifling as video games; to the contrary, like was getting at, all the stuff Extra Creditz argues are the basic talking points that people like me who consider games an art form and think games criticism needs a massive overhaul have been saying for a while, but lacking any of the nuance or knowledge of the history of games, genres and development necessary for truly understanding this stuff. Maybe that works for someone who is just waking up to those ideas, but as someone who has felt this way for years, more often than not I feel like Extra Creditz is using big words and tons of time to say really basic ideas that could be broken down into a sentence.

@SeriouslyNow: Wow, dude.

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cheesebob

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#105  Edited By cheesebob

Never liked them. Smug pretentious motherfuckers with very little wit.

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TobbRobb

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#106  Edited By TobbRobb

@SeriouslyNow: O_o

I can smell the passion.

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SeriouslyNow

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#107  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@TobbRobb said:

@SeriouslyNow: O_o

I can smell the passion.

Nah, that's just me.  Been up for hours and need a shower.  heh
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I_smell

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#108  Edited By I_smell

Yea I think some of the talks from DICE were really interesting, about what makes Skyrim the game it is, and what David Jaffe was saying about leaning on stories. Then I listened to Idle Thumbs new podcast, about how Zelda was invented to be a game about exploration, but now we already know how all those systems work, so the new ones are nothing like the games they're supposed to be. Then Jeff said in a video why it's good that the games industry doesn't have celebrities and is never super clean on itself.  Then the bombcast talked about the fighting game community and how they're kinda right but kinda wrong-
 
Then I watched an episode of Extra Credits and it just felt like they were really slowing down to educate me on stuff I feel like everyone already knows.
Lots of games are sequels. I get it, guys.

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ArbitraryWater

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#109  Edited By ArbitraryWater

@SeriouslyNow: Wow. I'm not sure if I should give you a medal or a lengthy response. I'll lean on medal for now, since there are other people who can more passionately defend "White people who are into Japanese Culture" lifestyles, considering I am not one of them.

In other news, Pancakes are delicious but Extra Credits is a touchy-feely pseudo-philosophical soapbox done by people who really, really want to sound smart. So in other words, I kinda hate it.

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I_smell

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#110  Edited By I_smell
Sequelitis is the same thing, except it says "I'm dumb, this is dumb, nobody's an expert, but here's as deep as I can get into why games work."
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Getz

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#111  Edited By Getz

@SeriouslyNow said:

@I_smell: Exaaactly. That's not why they're different. This isn't about a cultural divide when it comes to RPGs, it's about a different focus on gameplay, storytelling and mechanics because JRPGs were quite frankly, late to the party and being sold on their more popular machines; consoles - so they stayed within the same narrow, RAM limited focus which they took cues from, WRPGs and JRPGs just evolved at different times from the same sources, namely Wizardry and Ultima, it's just that WRPGs started growing more quickly on PC where RAM was increasing exponentially. Dark Sun, Menzoberaanzan and Darklands were the first games to start really pushing the hardware in terms of what was possible with RPGs while Japanese companies where just reinventing the Dungeon Crawler experience and refining it. Sadly, since Nomura has bastardised Square's design focus Weeaboos confuse that with a Japanese cultural aspect when it's really nothing to do with the culture in any ancient or fundamental sense. Like Akihabara or Harijuku it's just a fad which relates to the times, rather than the culture. If Weeaboos think Nomura's RPG design fetish is Japanese culture then Hamburgers are American Culture.....except they're not; their English, German and French (rissoles) and whatever they are now in terms of modern culture really stems from a couple of brothers in the 50s who made them into an American cultural icon because it made good business sense to mass produce shit and sell it cheaply. That's the modern JRPG; mass produced cheap shit which has been blown up and presented by a clown and his cohorts and that's also the modern Western FPS too mind you. I'm not precious or racist. Just honest. Weeaboos aren't. They're pretentious idiots who learn catchphrases of a culture they don't even bother to get to know at any deep or interesting level and then they repeat these things they've learned spasmodically, like some kind of cultural Tourrettes. It's embarassing and really silly. That's who Extra Credits really are. That's what they're really about and that's why I really hate them.

You're kind of misinterpreting Extra Credits argument. You seem to think that they're singling out Square but they're not, and games like Resonance of Fate, Recettear, Hyper Dimension Neptunia, Ogre Battle, Disgaea, the Tales games, etc. are all indicative of the culture they were spawned from, are all called RPGs, and are all wildly different from the "RPGs" made here in the States. The Extra Credits team was just trying to point out the fundamental fallacy of this genre distinction, when we play them for very different reasons. Games are the only medium that is treated this way: you don't go see romantic comedies to see a certain style of cinematography. You go to see them because of how they make you feel. I thought this was incredibly insightful and touched on a lot of ideas that have been bubbling to the surface lately but no one has been able to put to words. All this commotion over Mass Effect 3 having a "story mode" and a "combat mode" which somehow infringes on the very core of why we play Mass Effect in the first place: this is a conflict of title (RPG) over core play aesthetics (narrative experience) that has a lot of people angry.

You don't think that's a deep or interesting level of conversation?

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I_smell

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#112  Edited By I_smell
@Getz said:

The Extra Credits team was just trying to point out the fundamental fallacy of this genre distinction, when we play them for very different reasons. Games are the only medium that is treated this way: you don't go see romantic comedies to see a certain style of cinematography. You go to see them because of how they make you feel. I thought this was incredibly insightful and touched on a lot of ideas that have been bubbling to the surface lately but no one has been able to put to words. All this commotion over Mass Effect 3 having a "story mode" and a "combat mode" which somehow infringes on the very core of why we play Mass Effect in the first place: this is a conflict of title (RPG) over core play aesthetics (narrative experience) that has a lot of people angry.

You don't think that's a deep or interesting level of conversation?

I think people pointed that out when Mass Effect 1 came out. Then again, when LA Noire came out and people said it's kind of an adventure game. Then again, every time the VGAs happen and Mario Galaxy is under "Best Adventure Game". And even earlier than that, when we all decided that games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are kind-of the modern evolution of beat-em-ups.
Also whenever people talked about Fallout 3 and how they made it more of an action game, but nobody really goes to it for the action, they more go to it for the RPG stuff.
Also whenever a game like Shadow Complex comes out and people say "What do we call this genre? Cos 'Metroidvania' is a dumb name".
Or whenever games get marketed as genres that they don't really fit into.
Or whenever a weird indie game comes out and people say "there isn't really a genre for this, I guess it's [X] but not really." 

So yea, that's not really a cutting-edge revelation. Everyone's already figured out that grouping things into genres gets weird with games.  I don't think it's a deep or interesting level of conversation.
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SeriouslyNow

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#113  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Getz: Read my point.  They're not wildly different.  There are Western tactical RPGs too, there are Western Dungeon Crawlers too and everything in between.  It's just a matter of trends happening at different times.  And you, like them, ignore the context of reality that America is the single largest influence on modern Japanese culture.  That's what happens when you bomb the shit out of the country and then repatriate them and spread your cultural influences across the landscape.  I've mentioned this before, but Japanese culture has a strongly dichotomous relationship with Western culture, specifically America.  They hate and love America in the same breath.  The laugh at and fear America in the same motion.  Where do you think Iron Giant and Astro Boy come from?  Japan being nuked.  They are both expressions of the terror and hope of a Nuclear Future.  Why do you think Hayao Miyazaki portrays so many non Japanese characters and mythologies which he mixes with strongly traditional Japanese ones at the same time?  Why do you think Daft Punk got a movie made by some of their strongest fans; TOEI animation Studios?   Because, Japanese culture, modern Japanese culture is strongly intertwined with modern Western culture.  That's what happens when countries go to war.  It's Darwinian.  He knew it, he just expressed it in terms of older and simpler organisms but it's happened to us as a species too.  That's the real interesting discussion.  Not the dumb surface shit.  Not, OH LOOK DEEZ TINGS R DIFFRUNT COZ WE SPEEK DIFFRUNT.  ugh.  
 
They're not different much at all.  They're expressed differently and they evolved at different rates but they are the same ideas and the same experiences. Often they are even the same games.  Hell, a western studio is rebooting one of Japan's stalwart modern icons and he looks EVEN more Weeaboo than he did with WHITE HAIR.  We're coming full circle and Darwin was, of course, right. 
 
Anyway.  You're welcome to thinking Extra Pretentious Self Credits are starting an interesting discussion, that's cool.  Myself. I think they're awfully uninformed idiots who can't even get basic history in the right order and are too busy navel gazing to really make any decent observations, let alone interesting ones.
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Getz

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#114  Edited By Getz

@I_smell said:

@Getz said:

The Extra Credits team was just trying to point out the fundamental fallacy of this genre distinction, when we play them for very different reasons. Games are the only medium that is treated this way: you don't go see romantic comedies to see a certain style of cinematography. You go to see them because of how they make you feel. I thought this was incredibly insightful and touched on a lot of ideas that have been bubbling to the surface lately but no one has been able to put to words. All this commotion over Mass Effect 3 having a "story mode" and a "combat mode" which somehow infringes on the very core of why we play Mass Effect in the first place: this is a conflict of title (RPG) over core play aesthetics (narrative experience) that has a lot of people angry.

You don't think that's a deep or interesting level of conversation?

I think people pointed that out when Mass Effect 1 came out. Then again, when LA Noire came out and people said it's kind of an adventure game. Then again, every time the VGAs happen and Mario Galaxy is under "Best Adventure Game". And even earlier than that, when we all decided that games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden are kind-of the modern evolution of beat-em-ups. Also whenever people talked about Fallout 3 and how they made it more of an action game, but nobody really goes to it for the action, they more go to it for the RPG stuff. Also whenever a game like Shadow Complex comes out and people say "What do we call this genre? Cos 'Metroidvania' is a dumb name". Or whenever games get marketed as genres that they don't really fit into. Or whenever a weird indie game comes out and people say "there isn't really a genre for this, I guess it's [X] but not really." So yea, that's not really a cutting-edge revelation. Everyone's pretty up-to-speed already.

I don't think we can clap our hands together in satisfaction over a job well done when the only real progress we've made is establishing what the problem is. People complaining about a game not fitting in to a certain genre, or calling a genre name "dumb" is not "up to speed" it's just business-as-usual, and it's not what Extra Credits are trying to do. They're trying to get to the core of why we feel this way, and what we can do to fix it. I don't see your complaining ass coming up with any solutions. All you've done is say "Yeah we know all this already" but I haven't really seen that demonstrated. It's easy to say you know something in retrospect. I'll take pretentious and smug over naysaying and complaining.

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MysteriousBob

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#115  Edited By MysteriousBob

I've never heard of these but I can say that the OP is a dipshit.

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I_smell

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#116  Edited By I_smell
@Getz: Genres are weird, but people who make games don't really use em, so it's no big deal. That's how we fixed that problem. It's done. 
The solution was "I guess it's just a marketing thing, so who cares."
  
@I_smell said:

Being pretentious means to make a topic seem more grandiose and flowery and amazing than it really is.

This is an example of that.
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MiniPato

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#117  Edited By MiniPato

Am I the only one who notices that almost every thread starts with "Am I the only one/person?"

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Magickeys

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#118  Edited By Magickeys

@jamian9210 said:

@Tiwi said:

@jamian9210 said:

I don't know why I bothered. This forum is filled with nothing but BioDrone who are anticipated for the overrated Mass Effect franchise. A franchise tailor made for idiots, just like Skyrim and Halo.

Yepp, because everyone fall into those nicely defined groups that you made, with no room for diversity. Everyone likes the same things!

I for one have no interest in ME, or Halo. But I do love Skyrim, and Street fighter, and uncharted, and the god damn Batman.

I might even enjoy some "The longes Journey" on the side! I AM SO UNIQUE!

Its "The Longest Journey" God your spelling is awful. And you love Skyrim? LOL! Talk about the low standards and poor taste most faggots have these days.

You're an idiot

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iamjohn

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#119  Edited By iamjohn

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz: Read my point. They're not wildly different. There are Western tactical RPGs too, there are Western Dungeon Crawlers too and everything in between. It's just a matter of trends happening at different times. And you, like them, ignore the context of reality that America is the single largest influence on modern Japanese culture. That's what happens when you bomb the shit out of the country and then repatriate them and spread your cultural influences across the landscape. I've mentioned this before, but Japanese culture has a strongly dichotomous relationship with Western culture, specifically America. They hate and love America in the same breath. The laugh at and fear America in the same motion. Where do you think Iron Giant and Astro Boy come from? Japan being nuked. They are both expressions of the terror and hope of a Nuclear Future. Why do you think Hayao Miyazaki portrays so many non Japanese characters and mythologies which he mixes with strongly traditional Japanese ones at the same time? Why do you think Daft Punk got a movie made by some of their strongest fans; TOEI animation Studios? Because, Japanese culture, modern Japanese culture is strongly intertwined with modern Western culture. That's what happens when countries go to war. It's Darwinian. He knew it, he just expressed it in terms of older and simpler organisms but it's happened to us as a species too. That's the real interesting discussion. Not the dumb surface shit. Not, OH LOOK DEEZ TINGS R DIFFRUNT COZ WE SPEEK DIFFRUNT. ugh. They're not different much at all. They're expressed differently and they evolved at different rates but they are the same ideas and the same experiences. Often they are even the same games. Hell, a western studio is rebooting one of Japan's stalwart modern icons and he looks EVEN more Weeaboo than he did with WHITE HAIR. We're coming full circle and Darwin was, of course, right. Anyway. You're welcome to thinking Extra Pretentious Self Credits are starting an interesting discussion, that's cool. Myself. I think they're awfully uninformed idiots who can't even get basic history in the right order and are too busy navel gazing to really make any decent observations, let alone interesting ones.

God. Damn.

Needless to say, this is far more insightful than anything Extra Creditz has ever aired.

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sparklykiss

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#120  Edited By sparklykiss

@Chop said:

Pancakes always taste far too..."eggy" for me. Waffles are far superior.

Good man here.

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nintendoeats

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#121  Edited By nintendoeats

This thread was very carefully constructed to illicit video views and I want to express how very unhappy that makes me.

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mracoon

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#122  Edited By mracoon
I feel like the site needs to filter out any thread title with 'am I the only person' in it.
 
@Sparklykiss said:

@Chop said:

Pancakes always taste far too..."eggy" for me. Waffles are far superior.

Good man here.

Only bad pancakes taste eggy. I enjoy waffles too but pancakes are clearly superior.
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Franstone

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#123  Edited By Franstone

I like to hear what their viewpoint on some things are as well as the art that goes with it.

It's not like it's the word of god or anything.

Some of their view are agreeable, some are common sense, some are neither.

Waffles are better than pancakes...

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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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You're not the only one.

With mixed emotions.

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Getz

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#125  Edited By Getz

@iAmJohn said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz: Read my point. They're not wildly different. There are Western tactical RPGs too, there are Western Dungeon Crawlers too and everything in between. It's just a matter of trends happening at different times. And you, like them, ignore the context of reality that America is the single largest influence on modern Japanese culture. That's what happens when you bomb the shit out of the country and then repatriate them and spread your cultural influences across the landscape. I've mentioned this before, but Japanese culture has a strongly dichotomous relationship with Western culture, specifically America. They hate and love America in the same breath. The laugh at and fear America in the same motion. Where do you think Iron Giant and Astro Boy come from? Japan being nuked. They are both expressions of the terror and hope of a Nuclear Future. Why do you think Hayao Miyazaki portrays so many non Japanese characters and mythologies which he mixes with strongly traditional Japanese ones at the same time? Why do you think Daft Punk got a movie made by some of their strongest fans; TOEI animation Studios? Because, Japanese culture, modern Japanese culture is strongly intertwined with modern Western culture. That's what happens when countries go to war. It's Darwinian. He knew it, he just expressed it in terms of older and simpler organisms but it's happened to us as a species too. That's the real interesting discussion. Not the dumb surface shit. Not, OH LOOK DEEZ TINGS R DIFFRUNT COZ WE SPEEK DIFFRUNT. ugh. They're not different much at all. They're expressed differently and they evolved at different rates but they are the same ideas and the same experiences. Often they are even the same games. Hell, a western studio is rebooting one of Japan's stalwart modern icons and he looks EVEN more Weeaboo than he did with WHITE HAIR. We're coming full circle and Darwin was, of course, right. Anyway. You're welcome to thinking Extra Pretentious Self Credits are starting an interesting discussion, that's cool. Myself. I think they're awfully uninformed idiots who can't even get basic history in the right order and are too busy navel gazing to really make any decent observations, let alone interesting ones.

God. Damn.

Needless to say, this is far more insightful than anything Extra Creditz has ever aired.

Too bad it's a straw-man argument. In fact, the last time I got in to it with you SeriouslyNow, you did the same thing by turning an argument in to an ad hominem attack on me by calling me a racist. I know better now. Enjoy your misdirected anger.

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SeriouslyNow

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#126  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Getz:   I haven't called you anything at all.  I clearly have said that I don't think much of Extra Credits.  I only reiterated my points.  And nothing I've said is a straw man in any way shape or form.  Thanks for taking the time to read and appreciate what I had to say.  
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Getz

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#127  Edited By Getz

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz: I haven't called you anything at all. I clearly have said that I don't think much Extra Credits. I only reiterated my points. And nothing I've said is a straw man in any way shape or form. Thanks for taking the time to read and appreciate what I had to say.

Oh I read it, and I thought you made some good points... about something totally unrelated to the Extra Credits episode or what I said.

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SeriouslyNow

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#128  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Getz said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz: I haven't called you anything at all. I clearly have said that I don't think much Extra Credits. I only reiterated my points. And nothing I've said is a straw man in any way shape or form. Thanks for taking the time to read and appreciate what I had to say.

Oh I read it, and I thought you made some good points... about something totally unrelated to the Extra Credits episode or what I said.

You can't be serious.  The point I've made all along is that Extra Credits is wrong when they talk about the difference between....you know what, I've made myself perfectly clear and someone else understood what I had to say.  If you choose to not understand what I have to say, that's up to you.  Thanks again.
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N7

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#129  Edited By N7

1/5. I found the attitude to be quite juvenile, the grammar to be irresponsible and the overall point to be less thought provoking than potatoes.
 
Would not recommend.

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willin

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#130  Edited By willin

Hi guys, what's going on over here?

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theguy

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#131  Edited By theguy

@digitalsea87 said:

@theguy

American pancakes are weird, in Europe we have awesome thin pancakes that you put sugar and lemon on and roll up. Yum. I guess you guys call them crepes but s'just pancakes in Ireland.

LEMON? Really?

Well you squeeze on some lemon juice not pieces of lemon but yeah that's what you do with pancakes here, it's seriously the best thing ever.

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Tiwi

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#132  Edited By Tiwi

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz: I haven't called you anything at all. I clearly have said that I don't think much Extra Credits. I only reiterated my points. And nothing I've said is a straw man in any way shape or form. Thanks for taking the time to read and appreciate what I had to say.

Oh I read it, and I thought you made some good points... about something totally unrelated to the Extra Credits episode or what I said.

You can't be serious. The point I've made all along is that Extra Credits is wrong when they talk about the difference between....you know what, I've made myself perfectly clear and someone else understood what I had to say. If you choose to not understand what I have to say, that's up to you. Thanks again.

So... what does your point have to do with them wanting to show that Jrpgs and western RPGs are different?... because you're talking about the cultrual differences in japan and america. If you want to play the "every culture is affected by american culture" card, then SURE every peice of foreign developed content is in some way altered or inspired by american content. EVEN IF they were affected more. They even mention that BOARD GAMES, you know those american and german produced ones, were the basis of both sides wish to create a RPG. I really don't see what you're going for other than trying to imply that they didn't follow their history lessons in school much.

Edit: That wasn't even their fucking focus. Their focus laid in the history of the companies who all makes JRPGs now, and they they used to make them eroge games, and how it influenced the how they made Rpgs. You know, with much more focus on text and story, rather than the action element.

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tim_the_corsair

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#133  Edited By tim_the_corsair

Flagged for bigotry.

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ShadowConqueror

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#134  Edited By ShadowConqueror

I'm a waffle man, myself.

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insane_shadowblade85

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I feel waffles are better because they have built in cups that hold syrup. Built.In.Cups.For.Syrup.

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SeriouslyNow

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#136  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Tiwi said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz said:

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Getz: I haven't called you anything at all. I clearly have said that I don't think much Extra Credits. I only reiterated my points. And nothing I've said is a straw man in any way shape or form. Thanks for taking the time to read and appreciate what I had to say.

Oh I read it, and I thought you made some good points... about something totally unrelated to the Extra Credits episode or what I said.

You can't be serious. The point I've made all along is that Extra Credits is wrong when they talk about the difference between....you know what, I've made myself perfectly clear and someone else understood what I had to say. If you choose to not understand what I have to say, that's up to you. Thanks again.

So... what does your point have to do with them wanting to show that Jrpgs and western RPGs are different?... because you're talking about the cultrual differences in japan and america. If you want to play the "every culture is affected by american culture" card, then SURE every peice of foreign developed content is in some way altered or inspired by american content. EVEN IF they were affected more. They even mention that BOARD GAMES, you know those american and german produced ones, were the basis of both sides wish to create a RPG. I really don't see what you're going for other than trying to imply that they didn't follow their history lessons in school much.

Edit: That wasn't even their fucking focus. Their focus laid in the history of the companies who all makes JRPGs now, and they they used to make them eroge games, and how it influenced the how they made Rpgs. You know, with much more focus on text and story, rather than the action element.

Sigh, I agree, you really don't see what I'm going for even though I used pretty plain and clear English.  eroge?  Really?  Porn is the basis for your argument of a notably different culture?  Porn?   You know that Porn is probably the most common thing which all cultures share regardless of how it's expressed.  Sexuality and the way it's expressed in all cultures always affects the way they express other forms of artistic expression, always.  In every culture.  You do know that there was also a HUGE glut of porn based games in Western mediums too right?  And Porn influenced games and Porn itself.  The CD ROM.  It took off in the west much quicker than in the east.  But eventually it took hold everywhere.  Same experiences.  Different speeds of expression. 
 
Look Weeaboo, enjoy your shallow grasp of the culture you don't really understand at all (have you actually been there?  have you followed its cultural leaders? studied them?  understood their influences?  studied those influences?  know anything about its history?  I sense a resounding NO.  Knowing animation studios doesn't count.  Watching Anime doesn't count.  Fapping to Yoaio doesn't count.) and enjoy the fact that the people you're talking about know about as much as you do and can't even get their own WESTERN history correct (BF2 was never and could never be derived from a game which came after it MW).  I already explained what shaped Japanese RPGs; they were all dungeon crawlers based on limited RAM capabilities of consoles and family computers (which themselves were almost consoles or treated as consoles anyway even the IBM JX which was the Japanese PC Jr, all of them from the actual Nintendo Famicom, through to Sharp X68000 and even right up to the FM Towns and everything inbetween) and that's because Japan expressed it's evolution of manufacture along very strict lines early on and later expressed its variance later whereas the US had its variance earlier and then shared a resonance of expression AFTER the Homebrew scene pushed out Apple with the rise of UI.  They both did the same things but Japan and America expressed their influences at different times and at different speeds.  Right now, you can see very little technical difference between the 360 and PS3 and that's not by chance either and the Vita takes it cues from the iPad and Android devices which also took their cues from the DS and even Game and Watch devices.  The influences are constantly bouncing back and forth and languages being different are not enough to delineate the differences which frankly don't really exist at a cultural level.  Languages too are constantly influenced by other languages.  More than half the words we use to communicate in English come from other languages and a lot of modern Japanese too is from French, German, English and even fucking HEBREW (which in turn is derived in many ways from Ancient Greek which in turn is derived from Sanskrit by way of India and China),
 
I could go on but honestly, I can't be bothered.
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Tiwi

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#137  Edited By Tiwi

@SeriouslyNow: I really don't know know if you're as ignorant as seem.... Because if you've EVER written an essay or done an assignment in school every you would know that before you start you're supposed to open with a problem. Right? Well their problem is "What could have caused games who were both based off tabletop games to differ such from eachother with the same outset?"

I'm really confused if you even watched the extra creditz ep, because you seem to ignore points they bring up in that episode. It's BECAUSE of the Eroge games that they FOCUSED ON WRITING, It's got less to do with the sex part. Their point about RAM is fairly mute either way, since the focal point of their argument is that the developers themself focused on what they did well. Which just happened to be pretty drawings and cheesy writing. Enter the JRPG.

Also congratulations on knowing that languages are derived from eachother. You are so clever knowing things like that because the general american doesn't know shit right? Well lucky for you, I'm neither american or inept enough to actually not know how to use the internet. And a funny fact popped up! The most of the Kanji alphabet was available for game developers when the 16 bit systems arrived, and knowing that one could put equally as many signs in kanji as in arabic symbols, one could put more text on the screen earlier, since the RAM restriction was lessened by having to display less symbols = Logic.

http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/encodings.html

Jump down to 2.1.2. JIS X 0208 and read about writing in 16-bit systems. It's a riveting experience.

Oh also! If you go back to the 16 bit era you will see that most memorable JRPGs come from that timeperiod. Want to know why? Probably it's because they could display more emotions with larger sprites, more colors, more RAM and ,who would have known, more complex stories!

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SeriouslyNow

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#138  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Tiwi: The word is moot and you're a moron.  Leave me alone in future.
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Tiwi

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#139  Edited By Tiwi

@SeriouslyNow: Yepp, thanks for acknowledging my win. I love it when "know it all" people like you argue. It's like you're on some sort of self justified crusade, and when you're met with sources or asked to find sources to support your case, not only do you back out; you start insulting the opponent as a diversion. People like you disgust me.

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PixelPrinny

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#140  Edited By PixelPrinny

@mracoon said:

I feel like the site needs to filter out any thread title with 'am I the only person' in it.

I came in here only to ask "Can we please start locking these stupid "am I the only person" threads?" This trend needs to die a horrible, horrible death.

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SeriouslyNow

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#141  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Tiwi said:

@SeriouslyNow: Yepp, thanks for acknowledging my win. I love it when "know it all" people like you argue. It's like you're on some sort of self justified crusade, and when you're met with sources or asked to find sources to support your case, not only do you back out; you start insulting the opponent as a diversion. People like you disgust me.

RAM is the reason why there was so much text and still images.  The writing came from creative people dealing with the limits of the hardware.  This is a common aspect which has nothing to do with cultural mores.  DOS-V existed as it did (hell, still does in some industries) because Japanese is a pictographic language but that's had no impact on the way DOS-V worked at all.  Japan still used DOS in the same way we did in the west.  Even memory extenders and the rest all worked exactly the same way with DOS-V as they did with MS DOS.  There was no cultural division there and yet that would be the place where it would likely show the most variance and  yet it didn't.  The only thing DOS-V does differently from MS DOS is it's commands and specific inbuilt support for branded hardware from companies like Sony and Toshiba and the same shit happened in teh west with the PC Jr from IBM and the Tandy 1000 series from Radio Shack.  
 
You are rude.  You are wrong.  You have a short term perspective and you see this as some competition where you can win because your shallow adoration of a culture you don't even seek to properly know or really understand makes you shore up defenses against a person who rightly criticises Extra Credits for the shallow, ignorant navel gazing fools they are.   
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Tiwi

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#142  Edited By Tiwi

@SeriouslyNow: *slow clap* also nope. Japan developed an Ancii esque for their katakana and hiragana extremely early, the 1960s actually, which in turn was transformed into JIS or JES. And it's not as much cultrual differences, but it's with the companies. Squaresoft made those games using the save development crew as who made the eroge games. They FORMED the culture, not the other way around. They affected how the culture formed. I don't get why you're talking about DOS-V... it's not related to the point neither I or extra creditz are trying to make.

It's about the god damn use of language, NOT about how they developed the games. Here's another point, the normal Japanese household didn't have a homecomputer for games, they bought a dedicated gaming console. There, another marketable difference in american culture from japanese culture. But that point really doesn't change anything, because it's not related to their point. And neither is your point. What you could do, was to disprove their point, instead of making Ad hominem against me and making points about things that are unrelated.

Also rude? I haven't insulted you personally, other that saying I am digusted by the way you carry yourself as if you're infallible. If that is your interpretation of rude, then your should take a good hard look at yourself.

Edit: This is the only point that's reasonable:

The writing came from creative people dealing with the limits of the hardware

Of course it did... that's what we've been saying. And we've also been saying that western developers Didn't focus on this because it was a legitimate issue. and as such they carried their games on other merits. Consequently the japanese game developers who have a much more flexible language, had a way to avoid much of the issues raised by this, and as such their background in Visual Novels made it easy for them to do that transition.

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SeriouslyNow

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#143  Edited By SeriouslyNow
@Tiwi: You spend ages attacking me.  You ignore my consistently repeated comments about RAM limitations and then you quote it as if it stands alone from everything else I've said when it was a key point I made early on, pages back.   You do that so you can shape some opinion that everything I've said is unrelated to this discussion which isn't the case at all.  That's rude.  I'm not infallible but I am informed.  You aren't that informed and you know it which is why you've gone from attacking my ideas to attacking me personally and all the while you can't refute anything I've said.  Everything I've said it utterly and completely related to the discussion at hand.  The Japanese have never seen the delineation between the family computer and the console.  That the delneation came in the west in the war between Commodore and Atari and later between Apple and IBM.  It's not a Japanese context but they also had their own expression of the same experience in their war between Toshiba and Sony during the rise and rise of the PSX,  NES is known as the Famicom (Family Computer) in Japan.  You keep mistaking your inability to effectively contextualise information with the information itself.  This is a common problem for people who are fascinated with a culture and pedestal it rather than being able to appreciate it on its own merits.  Weeaboos are the very definition of that problem.
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Tiwi

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#144  Edited By Tiwi

@SeriouslyNow said:

@Tiwi: You spend ages attacking me. You ignore my consistently repeated comments about RAM limitations and then you quote it as if it stands alone from everything else I've said when it was a key point I made early on, pages back. You do that so you can shape some opinion that everything I've said is unrelated to this discussion which isn't the case at all. That's rude. I'm not infallible but I am informed. You aren't that informed and you know it which is why you've gone from attacking my ideas to attacking me personally and all the while you can't refute anything I've said. Everything I've said it utterly and completely related to the discussion at hand. The Japanese have never seen the delineation between the family computer and the console. That the delneation came in the west in the war between Commodore and Atari and later between Apple and IBM. It's not a Japanese context but they also had their own expression of the same experience in their war between Toshiba and Sony during the rise and rise of the PSX, NES is known as the Famicom (Family Computer) in Japan. You keep mistaking your inability to effectively contextualise information with the information itself. This is a common problem for people who are fascinated with a culture and pedestal it rather than being able to appreciate it on its own merits. Weeaboos are the very definition of that problem.

No really, you aren't putting the information you're talking about into context at all. What does the fight between the famicom and PSX have to do with ANYTHING related to the early years of JRPG development, and what people expect out of a JRPG? Nothing. That is why we're yelling at you, because you're spouting bullshit and you don't even realize it yourself. It's not applicable for this topic!

"This is a common problem for people who are fascinated with a culture and pedestal it rather than being able to appreciate it on its own merits. Weeaboos are the very definition of that problem."

These sentences don't even mean anything! I don't care about the japanese culture. What in the world made you think that!? And what does that have to do with how many of the first JRPGs were developed, and what inspired them?! What imaginary person are you talking to?

Have I ever said "I love the japanese culture, because It alone made some of the best JRPGs in world, and NOTHING affected them what so ever, IT was all the Japanese!"

News flash, that person doesn't exist, and if he did, he would have been wrong.

You're really gonna stand there and proclaim that JRPGs and Western RPGs are the same? If you are then make your case, and stop pulling in tangential information about things that have not been argued, and won't be aruged against since they're perfectly logical, but ultimately "moot" as you would have me say.

And you're accusing me of being a weeaboo? That's priceless, because if I argue for JRPGs I have to love the japanese culture. Right!?

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DonutFever

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#145  Edited By DonutFever

You call them hipsters twice, but complain about them being mainstream. Oh the bitter irony.

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MordeaniisChaos

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#146  Edited By MordeaniisChaos

Flagged for that fucking hideous disgusting as shit god damn assclown language.

@AltonBrown said:

Am I the only person who doesn't like pancakes? They are about as delicious as a butt. Pancakes are just waffle clones LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Only hipsters and syrupfags eat pancakes.

Now I really want to make a pancake site, and then hack it to show waffles. *rimshot*

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#147  Edited By cstrang

OP probably actually works on ExtraCreditz, trying to get more views. I have no idea what ExtraCreditz is, I have no urge to find out.

Guys, pancakes make me uncomfortable.

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JasonR86

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#148  Edited By JasonR86

I've never heard of it. But I don't like it now because they put a 'z' at the end of 'credit'.

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HaltIamReptar

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#149  Edited By HaltIamReptar

@JasonR86 said:

I've never heard of it. But I don't like it now because they put a 'z' at the end of 'credit'.

It doesn't.

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xpgamer7

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#150  Edited By xpgamer7

Alright the thing about Extra Credits is they do their homework. They pour over info from all over and how it relates to gaming. They inspired me to start doing the blogs I do, and to pursue a career in gaming. I've met them all and they're great people. They also happen to live near me but that's not important. What is is that they think about what makes games good. Sometimes they don't always make perfect points like in your video but I felt that they were talking about Military shooters not COD in general on that. In extension of that they're never trying to make games wholly different, they're trying to see what they can do. It's the same reasons I'm excited for Spec Ops The line, and other games. They do say games can be art, but they focus more on making games better by learning from the flaws than making them one idealistic thing like you say. It's not a thought provoking show, it's a learning from data to understand how better games work and how worse ones fail show. It's never going to be an argument but more a logical interpretation.

There are probably others who think it's bad like you do, but looking at their intents and design compared to minor points isn't how it should be observed.