Anyone Else Feel Like the Xbox 720 is Going to End Up Monopolizing the Industry?

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mfpantst

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#101  Edited By mfpantst
@Narwhalist: Hmm, maybe you have a point.  I felt like the difference in terms of hardware was a big issue with the xbox->360 and the PS2->PS3 generation.  I also felt like (at the time) the level of hardware we were getting was putting anyone except the biggest spenders in PC gaming in the position where it simply made monetary sense to get an 360 or PS3.  Maybe I'm firstly just wrong about that assumption.  The main facts I can present that I do think the current console generation helped bring to the fore in the PC world was multi-core CPU's.  I felt like until the 360 and PS3 came around multi-core CPU's were not quite the standard yet, where now we're in a situation where fast multi core CPU's and DX10+ graphics cards aren't that hard to come by.  The memory market having no current bottom means all those parts are pretty cheap now too. 
 
In that sense one thing I am trying to say is that I feel our current console generation is as successful as it is because at the time the consoles were released they were such a non-incremental improvement on both the previous generation of consoles and alot of the PC's available for gaming on the market.  By non incremental I mean sweeping, not minute btw (just wanted to clarify).  
 
All that being said, you have an excellent point in your last paragraph.  I don't know that per-se there are that many non-incremental, non-polish items that PC's can do that the xbox and ps3 can't.  The main things that I can come up with is the xbox doesn't render in 1080p, it renders in 720 or something, the Ps3 similarly has interesting resolution items.  I think the dx11 stuff is really pretty and it'd be awesome to have a console that did that well but I also think that might be more polish than not.  It's not just incremental over the level of detail consoles can do now, but it is basically polish.
 
Also I will say a legit smooth framerate on many of the bigger late-generation games are hard to come by.  Rockstar's last 3 published games come to mind.  Duke Nukem comes to mind.  The pop-in on borderlands and Rage comes to mind.  And as another point, many of the PC ports of console games (even the good ones) are RAM limited.  That is, they are written to only alot themselves so much GB of ram no matter how much you have.  I kinda feel like there's more work to be done in optimizing PC gaming and as far as 'next generation' goes.
 
Now, in conclusion I can't find a way around 
 
@Narwhalist said:

I’m not convinced that specs are going to matter as much in the next generation. I suspect we’re hitting a kind of “peak graphics” where the amount of effort required to improve graphics (relative to how noticeable the improvement is) is becoming too expensive.


I mean, I don't agree we're that close to "peak graphics" as maybe you do, but we are getting into the realm where changes are more or less optimization and framerate smoothness oriented than not.  However, if based on the ign article, the xbox graphics hardware is what they said it is, that's nowhere close to the "peak graphics" curve that we're on today.  That's pretty far imo.  But I see your point.  Maybe the next generation of consoles isn't amazing graphics that blows your mind.  Maybe it's a budget oriented mindset where everything is generally good, but nothing is amazing, and it's all cheap.  I just feel that if that's the case (and we're really all just getting a bunch of fancy PS2's then) then this next generation won't be the hit that the 360/ps3 generation will.
 
They don't all  have to be winners, but it'd be a shame to take what I feel is such a step down just because non-incremental performance is hard to come by.  Also, is it that hard to come by?  When the xbox 360 came out it would have cost you some $$ to make an equivalent PC.  $800 bucks might make a better PC than what this next xbox is sounding like.
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Rawson

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#102  Edited By Rawson

Maybe this new generation of consoles will actually be able to output games at resolutions my Radeon 9800 managed to do back in 2004.

Seriously, though, I'll just buy whichever one has the exclusives that I enjoy more. This time around, it wound up being the PS3, as I like playing weird Japanese games such as the Yakuza series. Next generation may be the Xbox, if they manage to successfully court the right developers.

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ick_bop

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#103  Edited By ick_bop

Developing for a console is different than with PCs, it's not the same goddamn thing.

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DarthOrange

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#104  Edited By DarthOrange

Mother fucker Sony is all in with the PlayStation, its one of the only branches that isn't losing money so support for that isn't going anywhere. There have been 5 Sony consoles, six if you count the PSP Go, while Microsoft has made 2. If anything from what I hear Microsoft is going to drop out and try to compete with Apple and Google TV.

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mfpantst

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#105  Edited By mfpantst
@ick_bop: Perhaps, but are they so different?  Otherwise why would so many games on the PC be limited to console constraints?  Because they're just that different?  I submit PC game development has been affected the way it has by this console generation because they aren't so different.
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BestUsernameEver

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We know zero about the system, and yet we're already taking bets on how much it will beat everything else? We don't even know if there is a new xbox, I mean, we all know there will be, but it hasn't even been announced.

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Jack268

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#107  Edited By Jack268

If the other rumor about it going around it is true, it's going to be the worst performing console of next generation.

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ick_bop

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#108  Edited By ick_bop

@mfpantst:

I dunno, do you really think a $400 dollar PC from 2005 would be capable of running Uncharted 3, Gears or The Witcher 2 at playable framerates? Do you think an $800 dollar PC from that year could do so?

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SirPsychoSexy

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#109  Edited By SirPsychoSexy

They will unless Sony really steps up with PSN on PS4, I mean the dashboard and online experiences on 360 vs PS3 is night and day, I never play my PS3 unless it is an exclusive title.

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Will1Lucky

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#110  Edited By Will1Lucky

A 6670 is a big boost regardless. The 360 more or less uses a modified 1800x and the PS3 a modified 7800, both DX9 GPU's. The 6670 is a DX11 card generations ahead of those two cards, if they could get Battlefield 3 and Uncharted 3 running on those two DX9 cards honestly there is nothing to worry about if they decide to use the 6670. Only question I've got on my mind is will it be a seperate 6670 or a AMD Fusion chip.

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SteamPunkJin

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#111  Edited By SteamPunkJin

Even if they did end up running console space, that's not bad per say (let's just leave the fact that it's MS alone for now). A single hardware standard wouldn't exactly hurt games, quite the opposite, they could be optimized to get the most out of the hardware.

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vager

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#112  Edited By vager

@ick_bop said:

@mfpantst:

I dunno, do you really think a $400 dollar PC from 2005 would be capable of running Uncharted 3, Gears or The Witcher 2 at playable framerates? Do you think an $800 dollar PC from that year could do so?

Maybe, If it was developed for that specific PC. The reason why developers can make amazing looking games on consoles with outdated hardware is because the hardware is the same for everyone.

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ick_bop

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#113  Edited By ick_bop

@Vager:

Exactly, that's my point. That's the key difference between console and PC game development.

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PeasantAbuse

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#114  Edited By PeasantAbuse

@Jack268 said:

If the other rumor about it going around it is true, it's going to be the worst performing console of next generation.

What's the other rumor?

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Jack268

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#115  Edited By Jack268
@PeasantAbuse said:

@Jack268 said:

If the other rumor about it going around it is true, it's going to be the worst performing console of next generation.

What's the other rumor?

That the "Xbox 720" would be unable to play discs that had been used in another system.
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WickedCestus

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#116  Edited By WickedCestus

MORE LIKE XBOX 720p AMIRITE

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Bribo

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#117  Edited By Bribo

Fuck graphical prowess and increased processing. Give me a console that dispenses with loading times.

Bring back cartrides.

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kingzetta

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#118  Edited By kingzetta

whatever comes out first is the one people will buy.....except the Wii-U

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mfpantst

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#119  Edited By mfpantst

@Narwhalist: See so here's where you and I may disagree. I think we can both agree that the next generation will be relatively cheaper, smaller and quieter (going with that a relatively smaller performance jump). I think that after the next generation is over (or a few generations down the road) we will look at the xbox 720/PS4 generation as one of the worser ones. I get the sense you think the cheaper/smaller/quiet trend is ok/required and won't substantively reduce the next generation's success. I kinda think that will.

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tebbit

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#120  Edited By tebbit

If they call it the Xbox 720 there is no god.

@supermike6 said:

Sega's coming back, man.

Just watch.

DON'T JINX IT

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darkdragonmage99

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@BisonHero: I remember Sony stealing the design for the ps1 from Nintendo 
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deactivated-61abb009b221e

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Remember that marketing (and lobbying) plays a vital role in sales, and not just console quality. I recall that US law deters monopolization (The AT&T and T-Mobile merger).

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RickJames123

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#123  Edited By RickJames123

With all the shit I've read about the 720 (Or Next Xbox), it sounds like it'll dominate. That is considering it's competition, the Wii U and PS4, if even.

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grilledcheez

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#124  Edited By grilledcheez

I think we should wait until they're announced, or at least until real things start to leak to have stupid discussions like this.

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FunExplosions

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#125  Edited By FunExplosions

Whoa, how is this thread still going? I thought it would die on the first page. You guys suck.

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QuistisTrepe

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#126  Edited By QuistisTrepe

Having the most powerful console has always been overrated. Having the most powerful console sure paid off for Sony didn't it?

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mfpantst

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#127  Edited By mfpantst
@Narwhalist: Yes sales.  I don't think that per-se people will flock to PC gaming.  I think that this next generation could bring an up-tick in pc gaming, but nothing major.  I don't think the desktop market is in decline, so much as it is in a transformative state.  As PC's get easier to hook up to home systems, so I think that will drive either a) smaller form factors, driving sales or b) straight PC sales.  That being said, the driving force will only be slight.  But yes, that does mean I think this next generation will have more people sitting on the sidelines until later in the generation cycle than with this last generation of consoles.
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deactivated-6418ef3727cdd

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Considering that the whole "6 times as powerful" thing is complete horseshit: NO

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Bobby_The_Great

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#129  Edited By Bobby_The_Great

What is this 2006-2007 again when everyone thought Sony was going to die and console wars fueled? They'll all be fine systems with great games. Let's just leave it at that and get excited, not "who's going to win." Also with Steam doing what it does, Nintendo console exclusives and I'm sure Sony has a PS4 in the works, I doubt it's just going to steam roll everything.

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TheHBK

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#130  Edited By TheHBK

@BisonHero said:

Remember when Nintendo was killin' it in the SNES era, but then Sony did extraordinarily well with the PS1? Remember when Sony was killin' it in the PS2 era, but then Microsoft did extraordinarily well with the Xbox 360? Things can swing really hard once a new hardware generation comes out. I can't imagine why anyone would think they have any ability to imagine how well the next generation of consoles will perform.

Not to mention all of the very relevant points that @Ubersmake made.

This is very true, but most of these things can be attributed to mistakes and things the other guys got right. I disagree with the other guys up top that Steam is competing with the consoles, the numbers say that is not happening and the fact that super sales have to happen for most of us to really go into steam, says something. At least for me, I have only bought one game full price for Steam, that was Half-Life 2. Into the next gen, Nintendo screwed up by making it hard to make games look good, and choosing catridges instead of CDs. Sony did great with the PS2, so there is an example of continuation, even though i feel they made a lot of mistakes there. So you really never know.

The thing for MS is people being a little wary of the hardware since I don't think any of us forgot the first time we saw our system Red Ring. Though they should be more prepared this time not trying to rush the thing out.

Sony however is not giving me great confidence considering how they are handling their hardware decisions with the Vita, trying to pack in so much into it, stuff that might not get used and raising the price and then charging you for memory cards.

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blueduck

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#131  Edited By blueduck

If microsoft launches their nextbox too fast they may find themselves in a very bad situation where devs are making games cross platform for both the nextbox and ps3.

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sammo21

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#132  Edited By sammo21

Considering there are no signs Nintendo is dead and considering Sony is doing well, no.