Anyone else miss 3D Platformers?

In the 64 bit generation we have Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Ape Escape, Banjo Kazooie, Conker, DK64, Rayman 2 and tons more

Last generation: Sly, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Mario Sunshine, Sonic Adventure, Ape Escape 2, Rayman 3, Prince of Persia

This generation: Mario Galaxy, Ratchet and Clank, Sly 4

After dominating the market around the turn of the millennium, the number of 3D platformers are shrinking fast. Even some of the ones I listed were more a mix of multiple genres. Similar to the decline of the adventure (point and click) genre of the last generation, I find the slow death of 3D platformers to be the worst trend of this gen IMHO.

Why does this sub-genre get such a bad rap? I look at comments about Rayman Origins and see things like "this is where Rayman belongs, 2D" even though Rayman 2 and 3 to an extent were stellar games as well. I loved the actual platforming/racing sections of Sonic Adventure 2, but due to a bunch of design failures in games such as Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic 2006, it seems people are convinced that Sonic just doesn't work in 3D. Now the developers are following suit and the last two major games in the franchise have been mostly 2D and a watered down, cinematic 3D. I hear complaints about the camera destroying the experience in games like Mario Sunshine, but it was basically a non-factor.

Why do so many people think that 3D platformers are archaic? Super Mario Galaxy and the sequel are an absolute blast to play and there is no mechanic in jumping in a 3D plane from point A to point B that feels old. It feels more fresh than your standard military FPS or Tolkien-esque RPG.

Playing Sly 2 inspired me to create this thread, because you just don't see that kind of creativity from mission to mission in any 2D game.

Alright guys, I'm done preaching. I'm having a little trouble getting my idea across so I'd love some feedback

I'd guess that a game like Fez will inspire the next wave of 3D platformers, even though it is a 2D hybrid. I'd also guess that 3D platformers are relegated to other genres which are currently taking the backseat, like space sims. In all likelihood there will be a resurgence with some old school dev will firing up a kickstarter and re-popularizing the genre.

I prefer 3d on a 2d plane (e.g. Trine). These are generally alot better imo. Quite a few of them about thanks to indie.

The Ratchet and Clank games this generation weren't bad at all. I've noticed a lot of people who complained about them never played them at all. All Four One wasn't a true R&C game so I'm not counting it. Hopefully it will come back around as I'm getting a little bored of this who 3d platformer on a 2d plane that everyone is doing now. Super Meat Boy was the last great 2D platformer in my opinion.

@wordfalling said:

I'd guess that a game like Fez will inspire the next wave of 3D platformers, even though it is a 2D hybrid. I'd also guess that 3D platformers are relegated to other genres which are currently taking the backseat, like space sims. In all likelihood there will be a resurgence with some old school dev will firing up a kickstarter and re-popularizing the genre.

Thanks for the reply. I'm just not sure an indie scene can ever develop with 3D platformers because they simply cost too much to produce

2D games like Braid don't require a big budget. But 3D needs a big developer to survive.

Some of my favourite games are 3D collect them all platformers, so yes!

Prince of Persia the Sands of Time was such a great game that I wouldn't mind more. I soured on that series after Warrior Within because of all the time travel and backtracking but the 2008 release had solid gameplay. Can't think of any current day platformers - and you can hardly qualify Uncharted as it's so automatic. I think the main issue is that those games are short and you can't shoehorn multiplayer in so they don't seem very profitable. In todays market if you're single player isn't at least 20 hrs then you basically need some sort of online to appease the masses.

@whyareyoucrouchingspock said:

I prefer 3d on a 2d plane (e.g. Trine). These are generally alot better imo. Quite a few of them about thanks to indie.

2.5d and I agree.

Alice: Madness Returns

Thank you.

Yep, I never thought there were a lot of good 2D platformers. Galaxy 2 was pretty cool on Wii, at least what of it I played. Love Ratchet and Clank and I wanna check out that Jak and Daxter thing on PS3. I always found 3D platformers more interesting and just generally more sound mechanically speaking. Sonic was pretty cool though.

@KGIY94 said:

@wordfalling said:

I'd guess that a game like Fez will inspire the next wave of 3D platformers, even though it is a 2D hybrid. I'd also guess that 3D platformers are relegated to other genres which are currently taking the backseat, like space sims. In all likelihood there will be a resurgence with some old school dev will firing up a kickstarter and re-popularizing the genre.

Thanks for the reply. I'm just not sure an indie scene can ever develop with 3D platformers because they simply cost too much to produce

2D games like Braid don't require a big budget. But 3D needs a big developer to survive.

That's not really true anymore. With the advent of things like the UDK allowing for pretty easy tech, and a lot of great material to learn 3D asset creation it's not that difficult.

@MordeaniisChaos: That's encouraging to hear. Any examples on the market?

I recently played through Crash 2 and 3 and it was pretty awesome.

I would love a return to that style of game.

Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts and the Assassin's Creed games are this generation too.

@Ventilaator said:

Alice: Madness Returns

Thank you.

Really enjoyed that one.

@Ventilaator said:

Alice: Madness Returns

Thank you.

It was really odd playing through that game, because it wasn't until like halfway through that I realized how long it's been since I'd done any 3D platforming aside from Mario games.

While we're at it, it's unfortunate how repetitive the platforming was in Alice: Madness Returns. The combat had some variety with different enemy types and weapons, but the platforming was all "glide from platform to platform", "occasionally shoot a switch", "occasionally leave a rabbit bomb to weigh down either a switch or 2 platforms that are linked like a scale". That was about it. Oh, and weird Mario 64-style slides that go on for like 45-60 seconds.

Pretty much all of the new abilities you get are related to combat, and the levels don't have any unique platforming features. Not even really standard ones like slippery ice. So the levels look different (and very pretty), but ultimately feel the same. I don't think people give games like Super Mario Galaxy nearly enough credit for just how inventive their platforming is.

As someone who just recently got done playing through Enslaved and The Simpsons Game I for one plan to take a long break from 3D platformers. God dam are they frustrating when the camera doesn't work just right or the jump is even slightly unresponsive.

Loading up DeFRaG is still pretty fun every once in a while. I'd considered that platforming in a way.

2D games are sharper platformers, all the games you mentioned have other layers on top of forgiving platforming mechanics. Because plaforming isn't the uber genre it was back in the PS2 era the people who play platformers now are comparatively hardcore. I love 3D platformers, especially Sly, but they can't compare to a pure 2D platformer

I can honestly say no.

Yes, but I hated how lots of them just became loot games. All about collectibles and piecing objects together, collecting 100 of something in one level. Very dull.

I don't know, I think it's just a genre that's just been done to death in the N64 era and there's not a lot of innovation you can do without it turning into an entirely different genre.

Plus, you're always competing with Mario when you make a game like that. That has to scare a lot of developers off.

I miss when platformers were platformers and not adventure games with jumping.

@crusader8463 said:

As someone who just recently got done playing through Enslaved and The Simpsons Game I for one plan to take a long break from 3D platformers. God dam are they frustrating when the camera doesn't work just right or the jump is even slightly unresponsive.

Enslaved basically plays itself. The platforming there is only in spirit maybe because it requires zero technical prowess - which is a big problem with platformers these days.

It would, indeed, be nice to find some gorgeous modern 3D platformers. Yeah, there's Ratchet and Clank, but we didn't see many stunningly gorgeous wide-open platformers this generation.

And not collect-a-thons either. I do enjoy those sometimes, but hardly all of the time.

@KGIY94 said:

Why does this sub-genre get such a bad rap?

Because it oversaturated the market. This happens all the time. Trust me: in 12 years, somebody just like you will say "Hey, guys, what happened to FPSeses?", and somebody like me will say this exact same thing.

@Video_Game_King said:

@KGIY94 said:

Why does this sub-genre get such a bad rap?

Because it oversaturated the market. This happens all the time. Trust me: in 12 years, somebody just like you will say "Hey, guys, what happened to FPSeses?", and somebody like me will say this exact same thing.

Are you saying that CoD will be hipster material en 12 years? Mind = blown.

Yeah I miss 'em.

I would love to see another Naughty Dog developed Crash game or another Rare 3D platformer (Banjo 3, Kameo 2, something new, I don't care which franchise).

@JoeyRavn:

Since it's one of the more famous FPSeses, probably. People forget that for every Super Mario 64, there were about five Punky Skunks.

It is my prefered genre, there has been a few recently and a game like Journey is essentially a platformer. Things have changed and thats why we have ended up with pretty good middle grounds between action and platforming like inFamous and Alice from last year which possibly had a little too much jumping about. The last sonic was also about 50% 3D platforming.

Their time will come around again, there's been such a huge surge in 2D platformers that I can't see it not happening.

@KGIY94 said:

@MordeaniisChaos: That's encouraging to hear. Any examples on the market?

Try looking at the Unreal Development Kit's site, there are a lot of examples of indie games that not only are 3D, but look great.

Super Mario 3D Land was great. Most other attempts at 3D platformers just aren't very good though. And now it seems they've given up. Insomniac and Naughty Dog could do it, but they too have moved on to other genres.

It's already been said but Alice: Madness Returns. That game really made me remember how much I loved all the 3D platformers from when I was a kid. I also thought it was very underrated. I really enjoyed the story and crazy aesthetic too. One of my personal favorites from that year for sure.

Rise of the Triad. Best 3D platforming ever.

I agree with this thread.

Naughty Dog should have done more Jak games; fuck Uncharted.

The LEGO Games satisfy my plat-forming and collecting hundreds of meaningless trinkets needs pretty well.

Need to get back to LEGO Batman...

If only Naughty Dog could do a Crash Bandicoot 4...

@ascholzk said:

It's already been said but Alice: Madness Returns. That game really made me remember how much I loved all the 3D platformers from when I was a kid. I also thought it was very underrated. I really enjoyed the story and crazy aesthetic too. One of my personal favorites from that year for sure.

I heard a lot of bad things about this game, especially the platforming.

Naw, I don't really miss them. I do enjoy making jumps in 3 dimensions, but I like doing that better in first person honestly. Having a character on screen just gets in the way of the jumps for 3D games.

Yup, I miss them. I'm glad Nintendo has kept it a live with the Galaxy games and with 3D Land.

@Doctorchimp said:

I can honestly say no.

This. Because, honestly, not a lot of them were actually good.

Yes. Absolutely. Still super bummed Banjo wasn't a platformer.

I don't miss them very much, but I know others do.

It's hard to make a good, pure 3D platformer. Many other games have elements of 3D platforming in them, alongside other mechanics (Assassin's Creed, for example). It's just that nowadays, people expect more from their games than just platforming, whereas in the old days, the idea of 3D worlds was enough to get people excited. It's also difficulty to frame an emotional or impactful story around a pure platformer - I'm sure it can be done, but it's hard.

To really succeed as a platformer alone, you need to approach "Super Mario Galaxy" levels of design quality, and that's really, really hard. SMG was not an easy game to make and it requires a certain talent. A lot of studios look at SMG and throw up their hands and say "how can we top that? How?"

I loved Sly Cooper, but in the end every 3D platformer feels like an inferior version of Super Mario 64 to me.

I miss 3D platformers so much I bought Rayman 3. I don't feel like that was such a good idea.

I've recently gone through a slog of first person shooters I've skipped over the years, Halos, Prey, CoD4, and a few others, and it really reminded me what I missed in games were just imaginative 3D landscapes, where you're kind of free to perform and explore. No imperative mission goals other than "find this thing" no cacophonous explosions or cover mechanics, no need for a DLC plan or generic multiplayer modes.

Granted, stuff like Assassin's Creed, Journey, and Mario scratch that itch pretty well, but I just like chewing through some brightly lit and colorful worlds with the kind of freedom platformers allow, and we just don't see many of those.

You know what, fuck it, I actually just want Tomba! 3, I don't care if its 2.5D, I need another one of those.

yeah I like them. They kind of lost their way though. They got a little unresponsive on the controls, dropped down to 30fps, and just generally got a little sloppy.

A nice tight 60fps with great jumping physics and great camera though would sell pretty well I think. It's just a lot harder to get that done than cranking out choppy 2d platformers.

Jak 4 and Banjo Threeie please.

Prince of Persia 08.

yes, 3d platformers are the best

enough with the 2d ones, indie devs need to start making 3d platformers that look like n64 games, or minecraft

Not really. I prefer 2d platformers.

Old thread, but I'm a huge fan of 3d platformers and wish they would make a comeback as well. There isn't anything out now like Mario 64 or Maximo Ghosts to Glory.

ratchet and clank is the shit