Are video games art: A definitive answer.

From Wikipedia: Art. 
 
Under forms, genres, media and styles: 
 
An art form is the specific shape, or quality an artistic expression takes. The media used often influences the form. For example, the form of a sculpture must exist in space in three-dimensions, and respond to gravity. The constraints and limitations of a particular medium are thus called its formal qualities. To give another example, the formal qualities of painting are the canvas texture, color, and brush texture. The formal qualities of video games are non-linearity, interactivity and virtual presence. Theform of a particular work of art is determined by both the formal qualities of the media, and the intentions of the artist. 
 
Further down the page, under Motivated functions of art: 
 
Art as entertainment. Art may seek to bring about a particular emotion or mood, for the purpose of relaxing or entertaining the viewer. This is often the function of the art industries of Motion Pictures and Video Games. 
 
Well, I guess that's the end of that then. 
 
It's clearly indisputable. 
 
... 
 
*checks watch* 
 
But seriously, how was this ever a debate to begin with?

Oh no, not this again. And Wikipedia as your source? This isn't going to end well.

" Oh no, not this again. And Wikipedia as your source? This isn't going to end well. "

Wikipedia actually started life as a database for pedo's. It was known then by Usenet users as Wikipedo. It morphed during the great clampdown of paedo's especially in the UK during the late-nineties, to be an all encompassing encyclopedic database. Initially the users of the new WikiPAEDIA were pedo's themselves.

Not a lot of people know that.

" @SpikeSpiegel said:

" Oh no, not this again. And Wikipedia as your source? This isn't going to end well. "

Yeah, I figured as much. I'm wearing a hard-hat and drinking stern vodka for extra protection. "

Yes but no one will ever accept them as an art form just violence on screen

"

Wikipedia actually started life as a database for pedo's. It was known then by Usenet users as Wikipedo. It morphed during the great clampdown of paedo's especially in the UK during the late-nineties, to be an all encompassing encyclopedic database. Initially the users of the new WikiPAEDIA were pedo's themselves.

Not a lot of people know that.

"

" @Tebbit said:

" @SpikeSpiegel said:

" Oh no, not this again. And Wikipedia as your source? This isn't going to end well. "

Yeah, I figured as much. I'm wearing a hard-hat and drinking stern vodka for extra protection. "

Mine sharing the vodka? I'm having a terrible day. :P "

If you want interesting insight into the games as art debate from reputable sources, this article is a great read.

" Yes but no one will ever accept them as an art form just violence on screen "

"Definitive answer"? Have you read the rest of the article? Particularly the "Classification disputes" section? Or the entire article about that topic? If you're going to use Wikipedia, use it properly.

I take Hideo Kojima's view....meaning I don't think video games are art.

" "Definitive answer"? Have you read the rest of the article? Particularly the "Classification disputes" section? Or the entire article about that topic? If you're going to use Wikipedia, use it properly. "

I see it as art, regardless of what others may think. 

Video games *can* be considered art. 
 
It seems really weird to take the extreme stance that they invariably aren't/can't/will never be art =/

" Video games *can* be considered art.   It seems really weird to take the extreme stance that they invariably aren't/can't/will never be art =/ "

There is a trap when you start pigeonholing anything into one slot, when someone plucks it out of the hole you have to figure out where to put it back.

First of all 'art' is just art. It is merely one type of human accomplishment. So maybe the argument should start from basic premise that video games are games, and yet much more too.
 
Physiologists have been saying that 'play' is a fundamental part of any healthy sane mind. Most recent studies show that our minds need to play, to role play in many instances even for a few milisceconds to make nay rationa desisions. Therefore, a mind that does not play games, not matter what those games might be, degrades and is not a healthy functional mind. If games are in fact so crucial to cognitive human development, then the argument if games are art or not art misses the point that possibly they are more important then art.  In nothig else what games are is least of which art and mostly games which are far more important.

I think people confuse art with the pinnacle of human achievement. But, maybe that is wrong and maybe given they way video games cross over the fields of art, games, tools, communications, and problem solving they are the pinnacle of human achievemen  I'm sure if we sat down and thought about what games "do" we would soon find they go past showing images, they go past telling stories, they go past providing problems for our minds to solve, they go past teaching, and they go past being a form of communications of ideas. I would almost say games are one of the most sophisticated tools animals with a neocortex have ever created.

Marine mammals, felines, canines, hooved ungulates, Elephas & Loxodontas, and most other higher animals play. There might even be ties to the possibility of sentience with play. That means if nothing else PLAY might be the only constant attribute to intelligence. We might have nothing in common with any other mind in the universe except play. If that is true then video games might be the only form of communication between to alien minds. It certainly has proven true with the other sentient minds on earth. One of the few things we do with other animals aside from kill or enslave them is play with them.

So, that's my argument: games are not art because they are more important then art.  And, while some art can be other things as well very few things are so many things as games.  My final word: Games are the human intellect's greatest achievement.  ;-)   

" Of course I read those. The fact that there are "disputes" doesn't take away from the fact that video games are classified as art within the article. Its like, there can be disputes as to whether it is Mayonnaise or Dijonnaise in a sandwich, but that doesn't change its status as Delicious. "

" Is art "art", now thats the question!!.lol...Hell yea they are art!!.. If fucking movies are, why not videogames!! "

Because wikipedia is totally a definitive source on an objective, and constantly contested issue.  
 
 
Anyway, I have no opinion either way. I can see perfectly good arguments for both sides. There are some artistic games, and there are some commercial blockbusters... hey kinda like movies. So there's no definitive answer, really. Some is art, others are entertainment. Depends on the game. Is Halo art? No, not really, but you could argue something like Limbo would be.

" @MonkeyKing1969: That was potentially the greatest thing ever written in support of video games. Ever! However, if they are more than art, could they not also be art? Like that toilet some artist contentiously called Art. Sure, say that's art, but it's also a toilet, something beyond art. You can go poos and wees in it! 
 

If a painting counts as art and doesn't make us feel with as much emotion as a video game then why can't a game do that?

" To be honest, I was quite surprised it was there too. I assumed (and we all know what that does to you and me) that those contentions were by vocal minorities, rather than the majority. Also, if you look at the other examples of classification disputes in that article: Cubism, Impressionism, and movies for example are certifiable as "art" in the 21st century. They were contentious at some stage, but are now accepted as art forms. I inferred that video games had also been accepted as such. "

The definitions seem too broad, following the logic of how sculpture passes the first test any physical object has those properties, so therefore any physical object that causes us to feel something is art.almost everything provokes some form of response internally therefore everything physical is art.at the point where we can say that then what have you done to make videogames distinct from say, a pile of horse shit on a walking trail?

Here's your answer. 
 
Video games are not art. 
And its good they're not.

I don't like the word Art, in fact I fucking hate it. >:(

Oh boy! This thread again!
 
Anyways, everything is art.  Somebody might see the shit I took an hour ago as art.  In other words, anything and everything can be art.  If somebody says that video games are not art then that is just their opinion.

"Also, I don't know why anyone would arrange horse shit on a trail. It seems like a poor idea to me. "

Surely anything that expresses something is art? That's the definition of art.
 
Some videogames are very expressive, some are vacuous as shit. Same can be said for music, film, literature, or paintings.
 
I'd say the work of Hideo Kojima is a lot more artistic than, say, the work of Banksy, Girls Aloud, Michael Bay, or Stephenie CUNTINGFUCKWAD Meier.

Are video games art?  Does a bear shit in the woods?  Is the sky blue?
 
Listen, art is completely in the eye of the beholder. 
 
Let's take the average mother for instance.  She may be cultured and understand how good an artist like Van Gogh was, but she may sell a thousand Van Goghs for the art collection on her refrigerator door.  Your mileage may differ on particular mediums, but as long as it has added meaning to someone it's art.
 
Now, let's break down the arguments.  
 

Argument: Video games are created for profit and thus, not art.

Argument: Video games can't be art because you can't "Play" art.

Argument: I can play a game in the way that the original creator did not intend.  You cannot "change" art and make it the same piece.

" Oh boy! This thread again!  Anyways, everything is art.  Somebody might see the shit I took an hour ago as art.  In other words, anything and everything can be art.  If somebody says that video games are not art then that is just their opinion. "

I doubt it is and you shouldn't care anyway.