As Double Fine’s Kickstarter Nears an End, Wasteland 2’s Begins

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Maluvin

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#51  Edited By Maluvin

@Humanity said:

It's funny how Tim Schafer wants to make a point and click adventure, a dead genre that all in all is just not that fun to play and everyone is scrambling to donate and sell their children to support him.

Yet the creator and team of some of the best RPG's ever made that won numerous awards and always can be found in top 100 best games ever lists, and people don't want to donate for some reason.

Part of it is that Tim Schafer is such an amusing guy.

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fobwashed

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#52  Edited By fobwashed

I'd totally donate upwards $20 for any FMV game. I don't care what it's about. FMV.

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cikame

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#53  Edited By cikame

I haven't heard of Wasteland, what is the aim for the new one?
Is it just a new version of that screenshot... but HD?
Are they going full hog and making something along the lines of Everquest but with modern graphics?

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Jumanji

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#54  Edited By Jumanji

@Humanity said:

It's funny how Tim Schafer wants to make a point and click adventure, a dead genre that all in all is just not that fun to play and everyone is scrambling to donate and sell their children to support him.

Yet the creator and team of some of the best RPG's ever made that won numerous awards and always can be found in top 100 best games ever lists, and people don't want to donate for some reason.

Fargo did not do much design work at Black Isle and alongside Herve Caen was responsible for bankrupting Interplay. Pavlish's last work was on Deer Hunter in 2003. DEER HUNTER. Stackpole made his bones writing some very mediocre genre fiction and has never risen above that.

People are expecting Fallout redux... as someone on another forum said, they are going to get Stonekeep.

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#55  Edited By Nomin

Ehh, let's not turn this into a conflict of people's gaming interests and preferences.

I donated to Double Fine Kickstarter project due to my appreciation of games like Grim Fandango, and I'm intrigued by Fallout's spiritual predecessor making a comeback. It's a good thing that developers and publishers don't take gamers for granted and stop underestimating the potential for their involvement in the process.

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#56  Edited By ADV215

This sounds great, I'll kick in a few bucks. I love this whole Kickstarter initiative.

Also, has anyone else noticed that "Stefan Eriksson" has backed this project. I'm just gonna put that out there...

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#57  Edited By Jumanji
@Nomin said:

It's a good thing that developers and publishers don't take gamers for granted and stop underestimating the potential for their involvement in the process.

I think you're being too generous. Kickstarter isn't publishers/devs discovering new respect for their consumer. Kickstarter is a mechanism that a handful of eminently mainstream devs and publishers have exploited to convert people's nostalgia and vanity into free financing and publicity. There is no respect here, only dollar bills.
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#58  Edited By Artigkar

@ADV215: I just googled that name and... wtf? is it the Gizmondo guy?

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#59  Edited By MudMan

@CaLe said:

I was 2 when the first one came out. No connection, no money.

And that's why gaming is an endless series of iterative sequels.

I played the original 2 Fallouts (did not particularly enjoy Fallout 3 or NV) and never played Wasteland. Still pledged a few bucks. I'm curious to see what comes out of it. A million isn't a lot of money to make a full-on RPG.

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#60  Edited By ADV215

@Artigkar: Haha, yeah! That's why I thought it was so funny. If you remember the old Hotspot days, Jeff and Rich used to talk about this guy's Gizmondo exploits.

edit: on second thought it could be another Stefan Eriksson, but I'm just gonna guess that it is probably him.

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#61  Edited By zor

@MrKlorox: Thanks for the info, if that is the case, then i think i'll go in for both (WasteLands 2, and DF project)... i just need to figure out how much now...

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#62  Edited By Fearbeard

Definitely putting my money into this one...

Wasteland was one of my favorite games as a youth. Fallout was kind of a spiritual sequel to the game, but it's quite different outside of the setting. If you are a fan of old school PC RPG's then you need to put your money into this.

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#63  Edited By jeffgoldblum

@MisterMouse said:

If Wasteland 2 gets to 1.5 million I will back it (or close to that number)... but until that point I wont.

lolwut?

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#64  Edited By gbrading

It's fantastic how this is starting to take off. By the looks at how Wasteland 2's Kickstarter has begun (a quarter of a way to a $1,000,000 in just a few hours) It should get funded, which is very pleasing. I'm not sure this is my kind of game and frankly still need to finish Fallout 1 & 2, but I think this is a project worth backing. Brian Fargo seems like a good guy, plus he's helped create some very famous games.

Maybe someone will try to resurrect Myst next...

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#65  Edited By Nomin

Ah, just found out that for international buyers, it requires $15 extra for shipping. That kinda sucks.

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#66  Edited By Grixxel

Well somebody had to post this. You guys are slacking.

No Caption Provided
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#67  Edited By Crocio

@Milkman said:

Yeah, sorry but this is going to fall flat on its face. You're not Double Fine, inXile. Also, your name is dumb.

Are you an idiot?

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Jumanji

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#68  Edited By Jumanji
@Crocio said:

@Milkman said:

Yeah, sorry but this is going to fall flat on its face. You're not Double Fine, inXile. Also, your name is dumb.

Are you an idiot?

What's wrong with his statement? Link one inXile release worth playing.
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#69  Edited By Chemin

Since I'm a major fan of Fallout 1 and 2, I'm totally gonna back this. Even if Wasteland didn't really play as Fallout 1, it still was a predecessor of sorts, so Wasteland 2 is music to my ears. I doubt it will be an amazing game, given their track record today, but 15 bucks isn't really that much. If they get the Kickstarter off in the first place that is...

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#70  Edited By JLF1

@Jumanji said:

I think you're being too generous. Kickstarter isn't publishers/devs discovering new respect for their consumer. Kickstarter is a mechanism that a handful of eminently mainstream devs and publishers have exploited to convert people's nostalgia and vanity into free financing and publicity. There is no respect here, only dollar bills.

How is this exploiting?

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#71  Edited By fjordson

Thanks for putting this article up, Patrick (despite some uninformed & ignorant replies). I really hope this gets funded. Some serious talent involved and a great idea for a sequel. As a huge Fallout and Brian Fargo fan I really hope this gets made.

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#72  Edited By Jumanji
@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:

I think you're being too generous. Kickstarter isn't publishers/devs discovering new respect for their consumer. Kickstarter is a mechanism that a handful of eminently mainstream devs and publishers have exploited to convert people's nostalgia and vanity into free financing and publicity. There is no respect here, only dollar bills.

How is this exploiting?


exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage
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#73  Edited By JLF1

@Jumanji said:

exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

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#75  Edited By Majkiboy

I will pitch in for the boxed game! This is my style of game although Wasteland was before my time, but top down turn based RPG, CMON! I loved the Baldurs gate games! This is awesome

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@Artigkar said:

I may be way off mark here, but wasn't the first Fallout game a sort of spiritual succesor/remake of Wasteland?

Funny enough, Fallout: New Vegas even referenced the Desert Rangers from Wasteland as being absorbed by the NCR in the Ranger Unification Treaty (the reason for the big statue outside the Mojave Outpost).
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#77  Edited By Jumanji
@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:


exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?
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#78  Edited By Rawson

Oh god yes. I yearn for a return to form, when RPGs were massive, immersive experiences, and not just "Twilight" for teenage boys.

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#79  Edited By Ravenlight

Meh, I'll drop a few clams their way. I don't think it'll be wildly successful but I like supporting this sort of game production.

@Branthog said:

Yep, they got my $250 almost as soon as it launched, this morning. And while I was at it, I increased my pledge to Double Fine as well as increasing my FTL (space rogue) pledge.

Aw man, FTL is so good. I upped my pledge immediately after I played the OnLive demo. There's definitely some greatness happening there.

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#80  Edited By Krystal_Sackful

I love top down turn based rpgs. Casuals can get right out of town for all I'm concerned.

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#81  Edited By Dagbiker

@Jumanji said:

@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:

exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?

They are exploiting the Backers as much as the backers are exploiting Doublefine/inXile. Both people have something or can do something the other wants. and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.

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 @Krystal_Sackful said:

I love top down turn based rpgs. Casuals can get right out of town for all I'm concerned.

Filthy casuals! 
 
That boxed version with the cloth map is fucking mine.
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#83  Edited By Hailinel
@Dagbiker

@Jumanji said:

@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:

exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?

They are exploiting the Backers as much as the backers are exploiting Doublefine/inXile. Both people have something or can do something the other wants. and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.

One might even call it symbiotic. We give them money to make a game that they want to make and that we want to play.
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#84  Edited By gike987

Pledged $300. I really hope this works out. Never played Wasteland, but I love most old RPGs from the 80s and 90s. The genre has been dead for years (unlike adventure games which are still made) so it deserves all the money I can (barely) afford, even if the game turns out to be bad.

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#85  Edited By JLF1

@Jumanji said:

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?

Every cent is going to the game. Hell, he is going to pledge 100K of his own money to get this game off the ground. Do you even know how Kickstarter works? All people are doing is giving $15 for a copy of a game in a genre long dead. It's a pre-order. There's no hidden agenda, no secrets, no scams. The worst that could happen is that the game sucks. For $15 that's not much of loss though.

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#86  Edited By Jumanji
@Hailinel said:
@Dagbiker

@Jumanji said:

@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:


exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?

They are exploiting the Backers as much as the backers are exploiting Doublefine/inXile. Both people have something or can do something the other wants. and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.

One might even call it symbiotic. We give them money to make a game that they want to make and that we want to play.
"Exploit" doesn't necessarily connote an illegitimate or immoral use... 
 
Regardless, what kind of a game do you think you're going to get?
 
You guys are creaming about this like it's Boyarsky/Taylor/Cain/Avellone going back to the Infinity Engine. It isn't. This is very much the B Team.  Check out inXile's catalogue. Check out the steamers that Interplay squeezed out during its death throes. 
 
As has been pointed out by other people, Fargo has been shopping Wasteland 2 since 2003. Yet the Kickstarter features none of his pitch material. Prospective publishers, who got a FAR more detailed sketch of the project than the Kickstarter funders, and who had much more to lose than just their $15 if the project sucked, were unwilling to fund it. I wonder why?
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#87  Edited By BisonHero

@rbanke said:

I'm interested in how quickly fatigue will set in with Kickstarter. People get excited about things when they first hear of it, but complacent after a while. I'll be surprised if games are able to get much out of the service after a year or so.

I think that's happened to all of the indie bundles. They used to be a somewhat rare occurrence, but now there's seemingly 2 or 3 going on every month, and I've stopped paying attention. They've oversaturated the market with them, and the overall quality of the games in the bundles seems to have gone down as well.

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#88  Edited By JLF1

@Jumanji said:

"Exploit" doesn't necessarily connote an illegitimate or immoral use... Regardless, what kind of a game do you think you're going to get? You guys are creaming about this like it's Boyarsky/Taylor/Cain/Avellone going back to the Infinity Engine. It isn't. This is very much the B Team. Check out inXile's catalogue. Check out the steamers that Interplay squeezed out during its death throes. As has been pointed out by other people, Fargo has been shopping Wasteland 2 since 2003. Yet the Kickstarter features none of his pitch material. Prospective publishers, who got a FAR more detailed sketch of the project than the Kickstarter funders, and who had much more to lose than just their $15 if the project sucked, were unwilling to fund it. I wonder why?

Maybe for the same reason Tim Schafer didn't get a point and click game funded by a publisher.

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#89  Edited By PokeIkzai

@Jumanji said:

"Exploit" doesn't necessarily connote an illegitimate or immoral use... Regardless, what kind of a game do you think you're going to get? You guys are creaming about this like it's Boyarsky/Taylor/Cain/Avellone going back to the Infinity Engine. It isn't. This is very much the B Team. Check out inXile's catalogue. Check out the steamers that Interplay squeezed out during its death throes. As has been pointed out by other people, Fargo has been shopping Wasteland 2 since 2003. Yet the Kickstarter features none of his pitch material. Prospective publishers, who got a FAR more detailed sketch of the project than the Kickstarter funders, and who had much more to lose than just their $15 if the project sucked, were unwilling to fund it. I wonder why?

"Hey publishers I want to make a party, turned based PC RPG and to top it off it's a sequel to a game that came out in 1988 for the PC and Apple II. Give me a million bucks."

IT JUST MIGHT WORK

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#90  Edited By Jay444111

@Dagbiker said:

@Jumanji said:

@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:

exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?

They are exploiting the Backers as much as the backers are exploiting Doublefine/inXile. Both people have something or can do something the other wants. and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.

But... they want to do it, and we want to them to do it. So I don't think 'exploit' is the right word here. 'exploiting' would make it so instead of buying the game from steam and all that, they would instead pirate it from both the companies. Or if the companies decided to release day one DLC that has been in planning for months to 'exploit' people who donated their money.

Both these companies I doubt would do that.

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Jay444111

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#91  Edited By Jay444111

Oh yeah. Is there any way to get the first game legally? and if so, is it possible to get it running on windows 7?

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#92  Edited By Aufaber

I still have my "box" for my C64 copy of Wasteland. This one should look great next to it. Here's to hoping is one of the old school record album style boxes like the original came in.

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#93  Edited By Jumanji
@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:

"Exploit" doesn't necessarily connote an illegitimate or immoral use... Regardless, what kind of a game do you think you're going to get? You guys are creaming about this like it's Boyarsky/Taylor/Cain/Avellone going back to the Infinity Engine. It isn't. This is very much the B Team. Check out inXile's catalogue. Check out the steamers that Interplay squeezed out during its death throes. As has been pointed out by other people, Fargo has been shopping Wasteland 2 since 2003. Yet the Kickstarter features none of his pitch material. Prospective publishers, who got a FAR more detailed sketch of the project than the Kickstarter funders, and who had much more to lose than just their $15 if the project sucked, were unwilling to fund it. I wonder why?

Maybe for the same reason Tim Schafer didn't get a point and click game funded by a publisher.

You really think Tim Schafer couldn't secure a $400k line of credit?  
 
This is my point about exploitating people's vanity and nostalgia. In your one line post, you propagate the myth that by contributing to the Kickstarter, you're helping Tim Schafer - the good, funny, cool nerd - undermine the eeeevil suits who don't want you to have old-fashioned fun. 
 
IN REALITY, Tim Schafer used this perception to secure free financing and marketing for what would otherwise have been "just another quirky Doublefine release".
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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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I actually liked Hunted: The Demon's Forge. If only because the main characters had a really good relationship, they bantered more naturally than I've heard. E'lara and Caddoc were a fun pair to go through Medievil Fantasy Video Game Adventure with.


And the ending has the most perfect twist, if you saw it coming it gives you such a perfect sense of accomplishment.

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#95  Edited By Jumanji
@PokeIkzai said:

@Jumanji said:

"Exploit" doesn't necessarily connote an illegitimate or immoral use... Regardless, what kind of a game do you think you're going to get? You guys are creaming about this like it's Boyarsky/Taylor/Cain/Avellone going back to the Infinity Engine. It isn't. This is very much the B Team. Check out inXile's catalogue. Check out the steamers that Interplay squeezed out during its death throes. As has been pointed out by other people, Fargo has been shopping Wasteland 2 since 2003. Yet the Kickstarter features none of his pitch material. Prospective publishers, who got a FAR more detailed sketch of the project than the Kickstarter funders, and who had much more to lose than just their $15 if the project sucked, were unwilling to fund it. I wonder why?

"Hey publishers I want to make a party, turned based PC RPG and to top it off it's a sequel to a game that came out in 1988 for the PC and Apple II. Give me a million bucks."

IT JUST MIGHT WORK

Worked for Fargo when he pitched for Bard's Tale, released  in 2004.... Hmmm, yet no one has mentioned that in this thread yet. I wonder why.
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deactivated-5e49e9175da37

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@Hailinel I think it's kind of the ideal, especially for niche stuff.

A game like Mass Effect 3 costs 60 million dollars to make, and then sells 3.5 million copies at 60 bucks a pop. That's 150 million dollars that goes to publishing, marketing and distribution, instead of production.
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Jumanji

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#97  Edited By Jumanji
@Jay444111 said:


But... they want to do it, and we want to them to do it. So I don't think 'exploit' is the right word here. 'exploiting' would make it so instead of buying the game from steam and all that, they would instead pirate it from both the companies. Or if the companies decided to release day one DLC that has been in planning for months to 'exploit' people who donated their money.

Both these companies I doubt would do that.

To the extent that these Kickstarters are based on selling gamers on a spurious identity politics with opaque pitches that conceal the true (and troubled) lifecycle of a prospective project, I feel that the use of "exploitation" in its sense of an "immorally selfish utilization" is appropriate.
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#98  Edited By Hailinel

@Jumanji said:

@Hailinel said:
@Dagbiker

@Jumanji said:

@JLF1 said:

@Jumanji said:

exploit - use or manipulate to one's advantage

I know what exploition means. I still don't see how this is exploition.

I guess you mean exploitation? You don't see how developers are using kickstarter to their own advantage? When Brian Fargo raises a million dollars with Kickstarter, is he just going to give it to a nonprofit Wasteland 2 trust?

They are exploiting the Backers as much as the backers are exploiting Doublefine/inXile. Both people have something or can do something the other wants. and it is a mutually beneficial relationship.

One might even call it symbiotic. We give them money to make a game that they want to make and that we want to play.
"Exploit" doesn't necessarily connote an illegitimate or immoral use... Regardless, what kind of a game do you think you're going to get? You guys are creaming about this like it's Boyarsky/Taylor/Cain/Avellone going back to the Infinity Engine. It isn't. This is very much the B Team. Check out inXile's catalogue. Check out the steamers that Interplay squeezed out during its death throes. As has been pointed out by other people, Fargo has been shopping Wasteland 2 since 2003. Yet the Kickstarter features none of his pitch material. Prospective publishers, who got a FAR more detailed sketch of the project than the Kickstarter funders, and who had much more to lose than just their $15 if the project sucked, were unwilling to fund it. I wonder why?

I'm expecting an RPG that, if anything, is more in line with the original Wasteland than with Fallout or anything resembling that nature. I'm not sure why you're so bent on shitting on this.

And yes, Fargo and inXile were responsible for The Bard's Tale remake that didn't go over well, but the reason it didn't go over well was because it wasn't really anything like the original game. It was more or less The Princess Bride in video game form; I don't know how much of that was inXile's decision versus that of the publisher making creative demands, but I do know that through crowdsourcing, inXile has an opportunity to produce a sequel to Wasteland that could feel more like Wasteland 2 and less like what happened with The Bard's Tale.

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JLF1

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#99  Edited By JLF1

@Jumanji said:

You really think Tim Schafer couldn't secure a $400k line of credit? This is my point about exploitating people's vanity and nostalgia. In your one line post, you propagate the myth that by contributing to the Kickstarter, you're helping Tim Schafer - the good, funny, cool nerd - undermine the eeeevil suits who don't want you to have old-fashioned fun. IN REALITY, Tim Schafer used this perception to secure free financing and marketing for what would otherwise have been "just another quirky Doublefine release".

You are aware that Double Fine has had some troubled financial times right? They almost had to fire people after a project crashed. Where have you gotten this idea that Double Fine is some large company with a ton of money?

I really don't see how this is different from buying any other product. Or how this is exploiting fans more than any other publisher or developer does. Would you want to buy a sequel to Wasteland? Yes I would, Would you buy a sequel to Halo 3? Yes I woud, would you buy a new game from Suda 51? Yes I would. There's no difference.

Why do you find it so horrible that people are spending money on products they want?

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Krystal_Sackful

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#100  Edited By Krystal_Sackful

@Jumanji:

People are giving money because they want to. Any mature human being is aware of the risk of disappointment.