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#1 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

It's not bad taste it's just different taste. I fucking adore Alpha Protocol, a game that was panned everywhere. I enjoy the dynasty/samurai warriors games. They are fun games, deal with it. I've beaten dishonored And I fucking hate basically everything about that game. Most people seem to adore that game. I beat it because I beat every game I buy no matter what I think of it. Which is a thing I think everyone should do, because it gives you a true grasp on what you do and do not like. That's something for another day.

If people like it and are playing it, it's not a bad game. The people that like it don't think it's bad. so who are you to come in and say "actually you're playing a bad game, you should stop liking it." If you say someone has bad taste, because it was randomly given a bad score by a stranger or because you don't like those games. You're the asshole in this situation. To suggest that some people have good taste and some have bad taste is elitist and kinda of dickish.

There is no good taste or bad taste all there is, is that guy likes this game and that guy doesn't.

#2 Posted by FilipHolm (667 posts) -

Yep

#3 Posted by punkxblaze (2985 posts) -

I'm going to disagree and say there are objectively bad games that people would have bad taste for liking. They're few and far between, much moreso than most accusations, but they exist.

#4 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@punkxblaze: find me someone that loves big rigs and I'll find you a unicorn.

#5 Edited by Nightriff (5085 posts) -

Disagree but I understand what you mean. Taste in games is all objective, but quality can be quantified (to a degree of course). There might not be bad taste, but there are bad games.

#6 Posted by Flacracker (1674 posts) -

Alpha Protocol is a pretty good game. I picked it up recently on a Steam sale and I am playing it right now. I will say that I think it deserves the reviews it got. If you look at any review they will praise the story of the game or at least the choice and consequences, and the dialogue wheel. And that is where the game shines. The AI is bad, the boss fights are bad, some of the editing of some scenes are bad and some of the voice acting is bad. The gameplay is pretty subjective though. It may have seemed like to those reviewers that the guns suck, but you just need to put skills into them because it is an RPG. @rorie Did a fine job making that game all by himself.

#7 Posted by KentonClay (256 posts) -

Yes and no. You shouldn't feel bad about liking games that don't score well, but you shouldn't just dismiss criticism either. "I like it, therefore it's good to me and nothing else matters" doesn't exactly lead to any interesting conversations about games as a medium.

#8 Edited by spraynardtatum (2962 posts) -

I disagree but I can get behind the sentiment that people like what they like and we shouldn't be elitist assholes. I understand the saying "one mans trash is another mans treasure" and I think it's unanimously true...but that doesn't mean that one man isn't playing with trash. He just likes it anyways.

#9 Posted by Brodehouse (9950 posts) -

The only difference between people with "good taste" and "bad taste" is that people with "good taste" are more capable of articulating what they like about what they like. That's really it. If idiots could articulate in an intellectual fashion all the different reasons why Duck Dynasty was the best show on television, it would be treated with more reverance than "yeap Uncle Si will teach ya a thing or two about a thing or two yeap".

(Playing all games you buy until you beat them) Which is a thing I think everyone should do, because it gives you a true grasp on what you do and do not like.

How would slavishly completing games give me any insight into what I like about games that merely playing them until I'm satisfied would not?

#10 Edited by Kaiserreich (699 posts) -

Nah, only I know whats good.

#11 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@nightriff: yes there are bad games. I never said there were no bad games.

#12 Edited by JZ (2125 posts) -

@brodehouse: because it's still a game. It's not hard labor or slavery as you equated it to.

#13 Posted by Pie (7099 posts) -

The only difference between people with "good taste" and "bad taste" is that people with "good taste" are more capable of articulating what they like about what they like. That's really it. If idiots could articulate in an intellectual fashion all the different reasons why Duck Dynasty was the best show on television, it would be treated with more reverance than "yeap Uncle Si will teach ya a thing or two about a thing or two yeap".

This is it really. Having good taste is about being able to explain why you like what you like and understanding why you dislike stuff. Someone with good taste in food can differentiate between all the various ingredients and talk about how they come together to form the overall flavour of the meal. Same goes with games, film bla bla bla

#14 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@kentonclay: well it's all that should matter, because your the one playing the game. The conversation of conversations about games as a medium, has nothing to do with this at all.

#15 Edited by Vinny_Says (5709 posts) -

There's no feeling quite as good as actually enjoying a song, movie, video game or book. Being invested in something because you like it feels so good it should be experienced by everyone. So even if there are things I may not like or I believe are "bad" I'm genuinely happy that someone out there, no matter who they are, enjoys it.

#16 Posted by jsnyder82 (735 posts) -

Alpha Protocol was $3.75 on Steam recently, so I bought it. I've been playing it, and I can't put it down. It's not perfect, but it IS fun.

#17 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Yeah but some people actually think Lightning is a cool character.

I mean damn.

#18 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@pie: that's sorta fuck up in it's own way, but I see what your saying.

#20 Posted by yinstarrunner (1199 posts) -

There is such a thing as "good" and "bad" taste, and it's much like what @brodehouse described above. I think the biggest part of having good taste is a willingness to step outside your comfort zone and experience new things. In other words, be eclectic. The more things you experience, the more you'll naturally understand what you like and don't like about them. That's the avenue to a better, more refined taste, and it becomes blatantly obvious who has done that when you engage in a conversation.

#21 Edited by FilipHolm (667 posts) -

Isn't this a question of how we define "taste" though? I've seen some goods points made in this thread.

The purpose of a video game is generally for people to enjoy it, right? Regardless of how "broken" or "bad" it is there is always some people out there who are going to enjoy it. Therefore the game served its purpose? This is how I look at things, and usually don't divide things into bad or good. Of course in social occasions I'll state things like "this is so baaad" because I'm not that far up my own ass, but I basically see it as I either like something or I don't.

I used to be one of those people who thought I knew what made a movie good and what made it bad, that I had some secret knowledge of what works and what doesn't because I worked as a reviewer and made movies myself. I later realized that I don't know shit, and that no one really does. I like it or I don't, if someone else doesn't I'd love to have a conversation about why, but in the end it doesn't affect me. And I would never accuse that person of having "bad taste" because he had a different opinion.

I feel like I'm not adding a lot to the conversation here, but I was bored and had an opinion, so there you go.

#22 Edited by SlashDance (1815 posts) -
#23 Posted by YI_Orange (1148 posts) -

Can we just all agree that good and bad in all their forms are subjective adjectives when referring to the quality of something?

#24 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -
#25 Posted by Sergio (2128 posts) -

Nah. There are bad games, and there are people with bad tastes in games. The great thing is I don't actually have to "deal with it" most of the time. The only time someone's bad tastes in games would affect me is if I take their advice and end up buying a bad game. That just means I don't base any future purchasing decisions on their bad-game-liking advice.

#26 Posted by Tennmuerti (8104 posts) -
#27 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@slashdance: it's like he took the words right out of my mind and said them with a British accent.

#28 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@sergio: i think you missed the point entirely.

#29 Posted by Demoskinos (14835 posts) -

@sooty said:

Yeah but some people actually think Lightning is a cool character.

I mean damn.

Yep. She is pretty great!

#30 Posted by believer258 (11914 posts) -

The only difference between people with "good taste" and "bad taste" is that people with "good taste" are more capable of articulating what they like about what they like. That's really it. If idiots could articulate in an intellectual fashion all the different reasons why Duck Dynasty was the best show on television, it would be treated with more reverance than "yeap Uncle Si will teach ya a thing or two about a thing or two yeap".

Pretty much this.

Though, you will find that people who can tell you why they like something can also tell you why something they like isn't necessarily all that great. I like FEAR 3. FEAR 3 is not what I would call a "good" game.

#31 Posted by lilyWhite (29 posts) -

@sooty said:

Yeah but some people actually think Lightning is a cool character.

I mean damn.

Some people think Lightning is all about being aloof, stoic, and emotionless to everyone else.

I call those people "people who haven't played any of the games for more than one hour".

#32 Edited by BIGJEFFREY (5057 posts) -

@sooty said:

Yeah but some people actually think Lightning is a cool character.

I mean damn.

HOW CAN YOU NOT WANT TO MARRY THAT????????????

#33 Posted by obcdexter (602 posts) -

I did not like FF XIII and thus skipped the sequels, but even I found Lightning to be a positive surprise. A very likable character.

#34 Posted by Syed117 (387 posts) -

I don't think there is any way to judge the chemical reaction that occurs in a persons brain when they interact with a games mechanics. Good or bad is relative. I think there is usually a consensus on what makes a good game, but different strokes for different folks. Not everyone has to love everything, but you will always find gamers who love certain things more than they deserve to be loved.

Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy are two franchises like that for me. When I was young I thought the dialogue and stories in those games were amazing. That was just an effect of being young. Metal Gear specifically has some of the worst storytelling, dialogue and plot of any series I've ever played. I don't understand how anyone over the age of 20 can find it appealing in any way. If someone who is in their twenties or older tells me they genuinely think MGS has good characters or stories, I wouldn't say they have had taste in games because you can separate those things from gameplay mechanics. I would say they have bad taste in fiction.

#35 Posted by Sergio (2128 posts) -

@jz said:

@sergio: i think you missed the point entirely.

I didn't. About the only thing I'd agree with is I won't tell someone to stop enjoying something bad.

#36 Posted by Hippie_Genocide (579 posts) -

TotalBiscuit's assertion that criticism is inherently subjective (duh) is all fine and dandy for the large majority of things, but I reject the notion that something can't be objectively bad (or good), and not just in the mechanical sense. There are things on the extreme fringes of the quality spectrum that defy subjectivity.

#37 Posted by TruthTellah (9104 posts) -

I think games can be bad, and there can be poorly-designed and constructed aspects of games.

But someone that appreciates bad games doesn't necessarily have bad taste in games. They may just go to games for something different. So, while things can be bad, liking bad things isn't inherently bad taste.

Online
#38 Posted by Nightriff (5085 posts) -

@jz: But how you are talking is that if someone likes a game it isn't bad then, all it takes is one.

#39 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11741 posts) -

As long as I can see where someone is coming from in their qualitative judgement of a game I wouldn't consider them to have "Bad Taste". If you can mount an eloquent defense of Senran Kagura: Burst, I will fully respect your right to have that opinion. I might still think you're a bit of a creep, but at least you won't be a creep with bad taste.

I also like my fair share of bad games, or games that are perceived as bad. I've written many a defense of Dragon Age 2 on these forums in the past, and I've even said a few nice things about Resident Evil 6. Opinions are just opinions, after all.

#40 Edited by RonGalaxy (3170 posts) -

Taste that goes against a majority held opinion does exist though. Might as well call it bad taste

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#41 Posted by crithon (3264 posts) -

I've heard and seen worse bad taste in things so it's an odd thing really how wrong the taste makers are most of the time.... Not like I'm going to start paying for F2P Dungeon Keeper

#42 Edited by Gruebacca (519 posts) -

Taste is a collective idea, and is determined by society as a whole. You may choose to ignore the idea of bad taste and pass it off as different, but society is filled with collective opinions about how tasteful things are. For example, people generally think that the console ports of Motorbike are fucking terrible. You don't have to agree with the collective conscious. You have the right to mount an incredible defense about why Motorbike is actually an incredible game. (I could think of a few reasons.) Just because you don't care about tastes or choose to like something that most people don't doesn't mean you are in good taste.

An individual's opinions can be entirely subjective, and the same goes for an individual's tastes; however, throw in everybody else in the world and combine their opinions and tastes together, and they will be quick to determine what is good taste and what isn't. Going back to my example, the world will most likely come to the consensus that Motorbike is a terrible game for numerous objective reasons.

Don't worry, though. It's OK to have bad taste, as long as you aren't somehow offending a large group of people with it.

By the way, don't think that taste doesn't exist. It is an actual scientific concept that can be used to relate to many sociological topics.

#43 Posted by chrissedoff (2108 posts) -

Yes, there is such a thing as bad taste and it sounds like you have it and secretly know it, so no wonder you're defensive about it.

#44 Edited by JZ (2125 posts) -
#45 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

@narujoe93: so we are all suppose to be one big hive mind?

#46 Edited by lilyWhite (29 posts) -

The simple problem with this entire concept is that it relies on trying to convince people that the universe does not revolve around them and their opinion.

Which, given the average gamer on the internet, is about as worthwhile as trying to make the universe revolve around our moon.

#47 Edited by TechnoSyndrome (895 posts) -

I don't agree that people can't have bad taste in games, but I do agree that Alpha Protocol is dope. I've probably played through it like six or seven times.

#48 Edited by noizy (667 posts) -

If a games is released in a forest and no one plays it, what would it score on metacritic?

#49 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@jz said:

@hippie_genocide: yes, rape is objectively bad.

What the fuck happened in this thread?

#50 Posted by seveword (156 posts) -

Bad taste in games does not exist = True

Taste in bad games does not exist = False

Language is everything.