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#1 Edited by SagaciousJones (143 posts) -

Eric Kain, a gaming blogger at Forbes, wrote an article about an old never-released game getting made as a SNES cart for $60. In his discussion, he used the game's availability on emulators as evidence that the game was originally made many years ago. He incorrectly assumed that because the game was never released commercially, the ROMs available online weren't illegal and must have been released by the creators. Ben Kuchera, of the Penny Arcade Report, took this mistake as grounds to attack Kain's (and Forbe's) credibility and smear him as a piracy advocate.

Eric Kain has since edited the article and admitted to the mistaken assumption, citing his previous articles AGAINST piracy.

But this hasn't stopped Kuchera from attacking Kain.

The context of all this is that Kain has written a large number of articles calling out mainstream gaming journalism. He was one of few writers to approach the Mass Effect 3 ending controversy from the consumer's point of view and just recently he tried to understand the perspective of DmC critics instead of dismissing them.Kain is also an outspoken critic of the gaming review process.Somewhere along the line, Kain's reasonable journalistic perspective has outraged Kuchera enough to throw a fit on twitter. Maybe he doesn't like the image in the mirror when Kain criticizes his brand of journalism? It's highly entertaining to see Kain handle it with such professionalism.

*Edit: fixed wonky formatting

#2 Edited by Pr1mus (3811 posts) -

Well from the available informations you present i would say Ben lost it but i'll reserve final judgement on the situation once i know more.

I don't know who Erik Kain is but i do remember some of the best gaming articles i've read were on Forbes whether they're from him or another writer. I never really paid attention to the names of the writers.

EDIT: Alright, i read the article and some others linked and also more tweets from both sides and yeah, final verdict is that Ben lost it. His reasons to wish Erik's career will be hurt are petty and childish. A writer who made a mistake and corrected it does not deserve that just because he may have criticized the gaming press in the past. It's not like the gaming press at large doesn't deserve criticisms either.

For my part i'll continue to enjoy Forbes' articles.

#3 Posted by crajon (21 posts) -

Funny seeing Ben Kuchera acting like he's got any credibility.

#4 Posted by FierceDeity (358 posts) -

Wow, Kuchera came across in a really negative light from those twitter comments. Kain, on the other hand, seemed so much more level headed. Kuchera comes across as incredibly nasty and patronizing.

#5 Posted by Xolare (1273 posts) -
#6 Posted by Carousel (418 posts) -

Kain is a fantastic writer and better than most of the actual "games journalists" that plague this industry.

The fact that Kuchera actively sought to "hurt his career" is offensive and petty. And the reason Kuchera gave for attacking Kain was "W-well it happens to me too!.."

Besides, the game has been available on emulators forever. It was never going to be released so no one was ever going to make money off of it.

But all the sudden people decide to put out a physical copy for an overpriced $60, then claim it's piracy to emulate it since now there's a physical copy available? Fuck them.

#7 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Today's lesson: Even "professionals" can be asshats when the internet is involved.

#8 Posted by Itwastuesday (934 posts) -
#9 Posted by Pr1mus (3811 posts) -

@Xolare: I do. I generally like what Kuchera does on the PA report and like i said in my first post some of the best gaming articles i've read were on Forbes.

#10 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

I liked the part where someone questioned Ben's motives for doing this and his response was basically that people are always trying to discredit him,so he has to go over his work carefully to make sure he can't be made a fool of, so he is taking this opportunity to do the same to someone else. Basically because it happened to him he wants to do it to someone else. That is fucking sad. Pathetic. Even /v/ thought he was acting childish.

#11 Posted by TooWalrus (13137 posts) -

I don't know who either of these guys are, but I wish they'd just fist fight, then hug it out.

#12 Posted by crajon (21 posts) -

@FierceDeity: nothing new, has always done it.

#13 Posted by Carousel (418 posts) -
#14 Posted by gaminghooligan (1407 posts) -

@IBurningStar: Thought the same thing

#15 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@IBurningStar said:

Even /v/ thought he was acting childish.

That's probably the sickest burn of 2013.

#16 Posted by killacam (1284 posts) -

I don't know what a BenKuchera is, but it sounds like a jerk.

#17 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@TooWalrus said:

I don't know who either of these guys are, but I wish they'd just fist fight, then hug it make out.

fixed

also ben is totally being a very large asshole and he is mad petty

#18 Edited by familyphotoshoot (653 posts) -

Kain is a good writer, and writes for Forbes.

Kuchera writes for the "news report" for a fucking webcomic.

#19 Posted by TooWalrus (13137 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@TooWalrus said:

I don't know who either of these guys are, but I wish they'd just fist fight, then hug it make out.

fixed

Yeah, with lots of close up tongue sucking and spit swaping. You know what I like.

#20 Posted by GreggD (4477 posts) -

This is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucking stupid. Tsk, tsk, Ben.

#21 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

@IBurningStar said:

Even /v/ thought he was acting childish.

That's probably the sickest burn of 2013.

#22 Posted by gla55jAw (2686 posts) -

@killacam said:

I don't know what a BenKuchera is, but it sounds like a jerk.

I agree with this statement.

#23 Posted by Undeadpool (4908 posts) -

@Pr1mus said:

@Xolare: I do. I generally like what Kuchera does on the PA report and like i said in my first post some of the best gaming articles i've read were on Forbes.

I too am a big fan of his PAR stuff, which is why it's sad that it seems like ANYtime I hear his name outside of those articles, it's him doing something silly like this. I see his point initially, but going after the guy after he corrected the mistake was just petty and childish.

#24 Posted by Kaiserreich (684 posts) -

@Carousel: I'm watching him try and worm his out of the situation on twitter. Its pretty hilarious.

#25 Posted by RecSpec (3763 posts) -

Kain is an outsider looking in, trying to understand the madness. Personally I can't stand his stuff, he seems to use sites no one has heard of to cement his points, and he seems to take both sides of an argument. 
He has an audience that respects him though, and if you're going to hate a guy, this article isn't the reason to do it. No idea why Kuchera's so up in arms about it. Must be that anti-mainstream media thing.

#26 Posted by Kerned (1169 posts) -

@familyphotoshoot said:

Kain is a good writer, and writes for Forbes.

Kuchera writes for the "news report" for a fucking webcomic.

Exactly.

#27 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

This is the post where Ben reveals himself to be a total twat, followed up by a sweet burn by this Ben Spurr guy.

#28 Posted by Carousel (418 posts) -

@Kaiserreich said:

@Carousel: I'm watching him try and worm his out of the situation on twitter. Its pretty hilarious.

It's amazing that he won't admit he shouldn't have started anything and is still on the offensive acting like a child.

These people whine about entitlement and the vitriolic nature of the internet, but then act the same exact way.

But almost no one is on Kuchera's side.

Not even that pudgy loudmouth Jim Sterling.

#29 Posted by Deinos (89 posts) -

@crajon said:

Funny seeing Ben Kuchera acting like he's got any credibility.

More or less this with the addendum of it takes a pretty shitty person to try to end someone's career. Try to change his opinion or show him what he is doing is wrong, sure. But actively trying to kill his livelihood and taking food off of his families table? Grow the fuck up Ben.

#30 Posted by gla55jAw (2686 posts) -

This is pretty funny considering...

#31 Posted by Carousel (418 posts) -

@IBurningStar: based Losttrap

#32 Posted by Levius (1076 posts) -

This is really sad, I follow him on twitter and read his articles and he always seemed cool. This hatchet job over a real minor point makes him seem like a massive dick.

#33 Posted by RockyRaccoon37 (425 posts) -

Very childish behavior from Kuchera, and further cements my dislike for him as a person (at least as much as I can know him as a person re: his awful awful twitter feed).

#34 Posted by IBurningStar (2160 posts) -

And this is the exact moment that this goes from being a funny debacle to a hilarious shitstorm.

#35 Posted by Flacracker (1597 posts) -

It would be funny if this asshole ends up losing his job instead.

#36 Posted by Carousel (418 posts) -

@IBurningStar: This has already gotten way out of hand and I love it.

More exposure for Kain is good.

#37 Posted by jjnen (660 posts) -

Does any other area of journalism have journalist attacking each other after one fucks up with the fact checking? And there is the "real world" journalism which is also suffering from this. It's fucking crazy to that games, where people are still debating the what is the actual journalism, is an area where attacks like this take place.

#38 Posted by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

This continues the unfortunate trend of Penny Arcade folks actively bullying people. Mike has made a point out of stating that he will actively make an effort to ruin people's lives with his clout. They have a bit of a reputation for this kind of thing beyond my immediate memory, and I remain adamant that, despite their talent, the bullying part of PA is so terrible that it drives me away. They approach a "Revenge of the Nerds" level of maladjusted vengeance, only this is real life and the guys that they're getting revenge on are real human beings rather than mooks to laugh at. It sucks.

I really like a lot about Penny Arcade, but, as far as I'm concerned, this stuff is disgusting and should stop.

#39 Posted by StarFoxA (5138 posts) -

Okay, Kuchera handled this really badly, but to be fair, Kain did something really stupid. In the article he wrote ABOUT an upcoming game, he linked to a site where you could play this game for free. Because he said $60 was too much to pay for it. And now he's saying he didn't think that was illegal. I mean come on.

#40 Edited by _Chad (963 posts) -

I'll get the dueling pistols, and we'll settle this like men. For the sake of old timey comic relief.

#41 Posted by ch3burashka (5009 posts) -

I got reprimanded by Ben on my first PAR comment because I used the word "stupid". His reply was that the PA community was a place for mature people who can properly converse in sensible conversation.

Take your own advice, Ben. Quit being an asshole.

#42 Edited by Carousel (418 posts) -

@StarFoxA said:

Okay, Kuchera handled this really badly, but to be fair, Kain did something really stupid. In the article he wrote ABOUT an upcoming game, he linked to a site where you could play this game for free. Because he said $60 was too much to pay for it. And now he's saying he didn't think that was illegal. I mean come on.

Here's the deal.

A movie was made, but was never released to theaters.

Years and years later the movie shows up on YouTube. No one pays attention to it, no one calls foul. It's allowed to stay up because it's impossible to get anywhere else and no one is losing money on it because it technically never existed.

Then, after a few more years, the movie company who made the game finally releases a physical copy of it on the betamax and charges $100 for it.

Then you say "Yo, that movie was already on YouTube forever, don't pay that much to see it..."

Then some jerk you don't know starts a twitter fight with you because you advocate piracy, while he himself has written about movies you can see on YouTube for free.

#43 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@CH3BURASHKA said:

I got reprimanded by Ben on my first PAR comment because I used the word "stupid". His reply was that the PA community was a place for mature people who can properly converse in sensible conversation.

Take your own advice, Ben. Quit being an asshole.

wow really? not even stupid asshole or anything, just stupid?

haha ben shouldn't throw stones from glass houses

#44 Edited by Nonapod (126 posts) -

None of this surprises me. Kuchera's always been a bit impulsive and dickish. I remember when he reviewed for Arstechnica he'd often have these weird ass provocative opinions.

#45 Posted by Karkarov (2982 posts) -

So what you are saying is a guy made a honest mistake and some internet asshole who is retarded now as he ever was is trying to make a big deal out of it to earn some sort of internet cred? Not news. Penny Arcade has never been worth a damn as anything other than a semi funny webcomic, I wish it had stayed that instead of getting a bunch of brain dead fans and now thinking the shit they shovel doesn't smell.

#46 Posted by StarvingGamer (8000 posts) -

Fuck, does this mean I have to stop reading PAR now too?

#47 Posted by Daneian (1207 posts) -

@Animasta said:

haha ben shouldn't throw stones from glass houses

What if its through an open door or window to protect from invades?

#48 Edited by StarFoxA (5138 posts) -

@Carousel: I fail to see what point you're trying to make. The game is now available for $60. It doesn't matter if someone thinks that's too expensive, or if it's been previously unavailable. It's now available, so playing it on an unauthorized site is copyright infringement, and probably shouldn't be advocated in a news article, especially from a source like Forbes.

I'll concede that it may have been an honest mistake on Kain's part, but he really shouldn't have linked to a site to play the game in an article about its upcoming release, it just comes across as a lack of integrity.

I do agree that Kuchera is being an asshole though. He did this a while back when he went on a rant about using Adblock.

#49 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@Daneian said:

@Animasta said:

haha ben shouldn't throw stones from glass houses

What if its through an open door or window to protect from invades?

the invaders have already broken his walls anyway?

#50 Posted by Sergio (2050 posts) -

@Rappelsiini said:

Does any other area of journalism have journalist attacking each other after one fucks up with the fact checking? And there is the "real world" journalism which is also suffering from this. It's fucking crazy to that games, where people are still debating the what is the actual journalism, is an area where attacks like this take place.

Fox News does, and to an extent MSNBC whenever they call out Fox News.