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#1 Posted by Deadmeat (94 posts) -

So with no context, anyone have a cutscene or moment to show a non gamer that games are like interactive and watchable movies and other works of fiction? I'm arguing with someone who hasn't really done or seen a game since the SNES era, that games are more now. Sure they still are fun, but we now have games like Uncharted or Mass Effect that evoke emotions of a movie.

So no context, any idea a short scene that would show this to someone?

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

You mean something with tons of meaning and symbolism? This might work:

#3 Posted by Deadmeat (94 posts) -

Yes like that, or just that many games are more like movies today and better than most movies IMHO.

#4 Posted by Branthog (5562 posts) -

It's a dumb argument to partake in, to begin with. As if there wasn't any story rivaling a lot of films (if not in actual execution) even back in 80s? If they haven't played a game since the 80s, they have no business forming an argument about their construct decades later, until they've done some information gathering. On the other hand, it's also fairly accurate to say that even at their absolute best, the most prized story telling gems of this medium only amount to about the most trivial and minimal of other mediums (meaning that their best, games are about on par with only mediocre books and films). Of course, there is far more to gaming than story telling. Like actual game. Unfortunately, game and challenge and skill is being replaced with "an experience I can participate in and complete in six hours without ever having to attempt something more than three times" . . . in which case, you might as well not involve a controller and just log into Netflix.
 
Anyway, the trailer for Heavy Rain, obviously.
 
  

#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Branthog said:

It's a dumb argument to partake in, to begin with. As if there wasn't any story rivaling a lot of films (if not in actual execution) even back in 80s? If they haven't played a game since the 80s, they have no business forming an argument about their construct decades later, until they've done some information gathering. On the other hand, it's also fairly accurate to say that even at their absolute best, the most prized story telling gems of this medium only amount to about the most trivial and minimal of other mediums (meaning that their best, games are about on par with only mediocre books and films). Of course, there is far more to gaming than story telling. Like actual game. Unfortunately, game and challenge and skill is being replaced with "an experience I can participate in and complete in six hours without ever having to attempt something more than three times" . . . in which case, you might as well not involve a controller and just log into Netflix.

Anyway, the trailer for Heavy Rain, obviously.

!?

#6 Posted by CornBREDX (5266 posts) -

Its a viral trailer but it fits for what you're talking about I think: 
 
  

   
More relevant to what you may want: 
 
  
  for anyone that didn't play Uncharted 2 that video more then likely has spoilers- just sayin 
 
Games are not 1 to 1 with movies as a story telling medium, as they still need to have that focus on actual game play but they are getting closer. Someone who hasn't played a game since SNES is going to be way out of touch. They also must live in a cave if they think they are still the same haha (i dont mean graphically or mechanically but to think they havent evolved much past what they used to be in the old days is just silly especially considering the "multimedia" FMV push of the 90s which wanted to make games interactive film which they are closer to now a days more then they were then)
#7 Posted by IkariNoTekken (990 posts) -

L.A. Noire knocks it out the park on multiple occasions; merging film-like story telling and characterisation into a video game. Quick google search resulted in these but there are plenty more if you take a look.

#8 Edited by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

Sex scenes, because they speak on all languages, they transcend time and space and every single dude likes 'em. Can't really go wrong with a sex scene. Example, as much as i might not have liked ME2, there were redeeming qualities.  
  

#9 Posted by Soapy86 (2620 posts) -

If you're using cutscenes to show your friends how awesome games are, then you're doing it wrong.

#10 Posted by MikeGosot (3227 posts) -
@Soapy86 said:

If you're using cutscenes to show your friends how awesome games are, then you're doing it wrong.

This. 
 
BUT! I need to show this here: 
       

  WARNING: HEAVY CATHERINE SPOILERS!

#11 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -

My nephew watched me play Metal Gear Solid 2. It was during one of the those long ass cutscenes. He thought the graphics looked cool as hell. He's a dumb ass. I love him. But he got on my nerves, and plus, he's a dumb ass.

#12 Posted by GTCknight (695 posts) -

For story driven games I would say both Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Human Revolution there's also Catherine (for primarily the story). Now if you want to show him more than just serous story games, then simply make him play Saints Row: The Third and leave the room.

Hope this helps you in someway.

#13 Posted by AltonBrown (950 posts) -

Take your pick.

#14 Posted by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Online
#15 Posted by Branthog (5562 posts) -
@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Yep. That was kind of what my comment was getting at, too. I feel that all the games we bleat on about having "such amazing story" don't compare to the quality of story in good movies and books (and certainly not the quality of GREAT movies and books). At the same time, I don't want games to be movies. I want them to have great stories executed very well. We aren't there yet. But I don't just want a fucking interactive movie. If that's what people think games need to evolve into, before they care about playing videogames, then they don't actually care about playing games. They just want to watch a movie, in the first place.
#16 Edited by Jeust (10644 posts) -
#17 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5826 posts) -

show him this cutscene simply because it's a great cutscene:
 
  

#18 Edited by SoldierG654342 (1766 posts) -

Don't show them a cutscene. They don't offer anything they can't get in a movie better.

Show them Silent Hill 2's hallway instead, or anything similarly in-game.

#19 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

@Deadmeat:

I understand where you are coming from here. Since I was a child, I always showed my parents game cut-scenes to show them why video games were "cool" or "worthwhile." Realistically though, even if a "non-gamer" appreciates a cut-scene, you haven't shown them anything meaningful about "video games." A cut-scene is just a movie. There is worth to that, but it isn't a video game. If that non-gamer likes the cut-scene, you've only reiterated their enjoyment of movies. Try to show them something with a unique artistic style like Insanely Twisted Shadow Planet, or show them the weather and mountains of Skyrim. Those are genuinely impressive and interesting things and you'll be actually showing them something about video games.

As far as "emotion" goes though, I think video games convey emotion in an experiential way. You become invested in characters by controlling them or interacting with them, and when moments occur in the game that evoke an emotional response, it works because of those past experiences. That's difficult to convey to someone just by showing them a scene.

#20 Posted by ShenaniganZ (65 posts) -
DA GOAT!!!!
#21 Posted by FunExplosions (5407 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Man, you're so smart

#22 Posted by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

@FunExplosions said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Man, you're so smart

Why thank you!

Online
#23 Edited by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -
@TheDudeOfGaming: I would say that you can't really go right with a sex scene.  And that one was particularly cringe worthy.
 
@Deadmeat
I don't know if this is the best example, but it is the first one that comes to mind from games I've played recently.  Starts at about 2:50 and ends at about 6:44.  The characters emote well, it's technically impressive, and the writing is good.  A lot can be inferred from the dialogue even if someone knows nothing about the game. 
 
     
#24 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Branthog said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Yep. That was kind of what my comment was getting at, too. I feel that all the games we bleat on about having "such amazing story" don't compare to the quality of story in good movies and books (and certainly not the quality of GREAT movies and books). At the same time, I don't want games to be movies. I want them to have great stories executed very well. We aren't there yet. But I don't just want a fucking interactive movie. If that's what people think games need to evolve into, before they care about playing videogames, then they don't actually care about playing games. They just want to watch a movie, in the first place.

It's a fucking insult to video games if you even DARE say that they are worse than movies... Seriously, it is a fucking insult to them all. Even the ones without story have more fucking pride than that piece of shit medium that is killing itself.

Yes, I went there, movies are for fools with no talent. As soon as you prove yourself with one good movies out of the tens of millions that are so fucking terrible that it makes the good like fucking amazing. you get stuck doing shit for the rest of your life.

Basically, the movie industry is what the gaming industry fears, not because they are afraid of their power but because video game makers want nothing to do with such a horrible industry that can barely make a single good movie a year at this point.

1 out of 10,000 movies released every year are even worth watching. (last few being Inception/District 9/... some other remakes that actually turned out crappier than the first remake somehow. oh and book to movies which are always fucking terrible.)

1 out of 100 video games, (including any and all flash games.) are in fact worth playing.

The movie industry is a failure and saying the video game industry is worse than them is a fucking insult that I detest to the very bottomless depths of my soul!

Hell, MGS still has a story action movies haven't even tried to beat in all these fucking years. Hell, no movie will ever get to the depths that Nier or Bioshock have gotten to. None. hell, I can find NARUTO FILLER EPISODES WITH MORE EMOTION THAN MODERN MOVIES!!!!!

Compare video games to books. At least video games like fucking COD have more fucking respect than Twilight or any transformers movie will ever have.

Yes, I have entered rage mode for this post. You know what. I don't mind if I get modded for the fucking truth of this.

Video games can have many different ways to tell a story, first person, third person, or something else. To even different forms such as cutscenes/interactive events/ectera. Video games are the medium that film wanted to become in all reality. A truly engrossing medium that can bring in anyone and make them into the hero/villain in a smart way. Video games, on the SINGLE merit alone made them better to film, not just now, but long a fucking go when video games with characters BEGAN!

#25 Edited by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

@Jay444111:

I knew you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

Online
#26 Posted by VanderSEXXX (552 posts) -

This is proof that puts Roger Ebert to shame when he said "Video Games can never be art".

#27 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

How about taking a class in reading starting now and actually read what I have to say for once.

#28 Posted by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

How about taking a class in reading starting now and actually read what I have to say for once.

No thank you.

Online
#29 Posted by Claude (16254 posts) -
@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

@Jay444111 said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

How about taking a class in reading starting now and actually read what I have to say for once.

This exchange made this thread worth it for me. My pleasure.
#30 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

Movies and Games entertain in different ways, if your looking for a quick interesting video to show your friend that games = movies, sorry, you wont find it. because if a game has a story it will be involved, and unless you, or your friend is invested in the characters there is no way he will feel any emotion. If you just want to show how fun a game is just pop on pretty much any of the quick looks there are here.

#31 Posted by lockwoodx (2479 posts) -

@Deadmeat said:

So with no context, anyone have a cutscene or moment to show a non gamer that games are like interactive and watchable movies and other works of fiction? I'm arguing with someone who hasn't really done or seen a game since the SNES era, that games are more now. Sure they still are fun, but we now have games like Uncharted or Mass Effect that evoke emotions of a movie.

So no context, any idea a short scene that would show this to someone?

When your friend stops crying you can just close this thread down.

Game, set, match.

#32 Posted by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

@Claude said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

@Jay444111 said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

How about taking a class in reading starting now and actually read what I have to say for once.

This exchange made this thread worth it for me. My pleasure.

You're welcome.

Online
#33 Posted by Hunkulese (2723 posts) -

If you're using cutscenes to demonstrate how a game can have an emotional impact you're just giving their argument merit. A cutscene is a movie. There is nothing interactive about a cutscene. You're just proving their point by showing them that a game must fall back on using movies to have any sort of impactfull storytelling. To appreciate games you have to play them.

If you want to show how a game can provide a satisfying interactive story experience let them play something like Bastion or Braid.

#34 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@MikeGosot: That part was fucking awesome.

#35 Posted by Andorski (5309 posts) -

Like with most debates, it's always better to put a negative light on your opponent's views than to put a positive spin on your own. Just tell him how modern movies and TV shows are market-focused money makers.

#36 Posted by mosespippy (4174 posts) -

Anyone who posted a cutscene needs to think about the topic more. No animated video can show why games are superior because they aren't interactive. This guy is basically asking the 1920 equivalent of what movie soundtrack best showcases why movies are better than radio.

Online
#37 Posted by LiquidSwords (2738 posts) -

@Jay444111:

You are more delusional than usual! Where are you getting these retarted facts from? Seriously, I want to know!

#38 Posted by Brendan (7806 posts) -

@Branthog said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Yep. That was kind of what my comment was getting at, too. I feel that all the games we bleat on about having "such amazing story" don't compare to the quality of story in good movies and books (and certainly not the quality of GREAT movies and books). At the same time, I don't want games to be movies. I want them to have great stories executed very well. We aren't there yet. But I don't just want a fucking interactive movie. If that's what people think games need to evolve into, before they care about playing videogames, then they don't actually care about playing games. They just want to watch a movie, in the first place.

I'm just quoting this to show my appreciation for this perspective. A medium that focuses on growing by aping another medium will never truly find it's potential.

#39 Posted by fazzle (305 posts) -

@Andorski said:

Like with most debates, it's always better to put a negative light on your opponent's views than to put a positive spin on your own. Just tell him how modern movies and TV shows are market-focused money makers.

But then that argument immediately becomes invalid if he plays anything more than $5 indie games.

#40 Posted by Brendan (7806 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

How about taking a class in reading starting now and actually read what I have to say for once.

Jay. You're so dumb. Stop it. Stop communicating with us. I mean "us" as a collective of individuals who have more than two brain cells. Dear god.

#41 Posted by Andorski (5309 posts) -

@fazzle said:

@Andorski said:

Like with most debates, it's always better to put a negative light on your opponent's views than to put a positive spin on your own. Just tell him how modern movies and TV shows are market-focused money makers.

But then that argument immediately becomes invalid if he plays anything more than $5 indie games.

Doesn't matter if you're wrong so long as you focus on the idea that your opponent is wrong. It's all about controlling the narrative.

#42 Edited by lockwoodx (2479 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

Anyone who posted a cutscene needs to think about the topic more. No animated video can show why games are superior because they aren't interactive. This guy is basically asking the 1920 equivalent of what movie soundtrack best showcases why movies are better than radio.


He wanted something that could show video games evoke emotion. Nothing is going to beat out Animal Crossing is Tragic, not even that FF7 Aries dies bullshit. 

 edit: think it's fixed now. can't really tell the difference.
#43 Posted by biospank (657 posts) -

Depends really of what kind of movies he is into. If he is a hardcore moviebuff then he will probably always say that movies will beat games when it comes to an emotional level and logical story, ect. The same will go for a hardcore reader who finds books better artform over movies because you can have secrets and lotts of symbolism in a books. 
So it is to hard to argue or even show a clip because of  this. If a guy would be a big art house and asian horror then I would show him some clips of silent hill.

#44 Posted by JauntyHat (323 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@Branthog said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Yep. That was kind of what my comment was getting at, too. I feel that all the games we bleat on about having "such amazing story" don't compare to the quality of story in good movies and books (and certainly not the quality of GREAT movies and books). At the same time, I don't want games to be movies. I want them to have great stories executed very well. We aren't there yet. But I don't just want a fucking interactive movie. If that's what people think games need to evolve into, before they care about playing videogames, then they don't actually care about playing games. They just want to watch a movie, in the first place.

It's a fucking insult to video games if you even DARE say that they are worse than movies... Seriously, it is a fucking insult to them all. Even the ones without story have more fucking pride than that piece of shit medium that is killing itself.

Yes, I went there, movies are for fools with no talent. As soon as you prove yourself with one good movies out of the tens of millions that are so fucking terrible that it makes the good like fucking amazing. you get stuck doing shit for the rest of your life.

Basically, the movie industry is what the gaming industry fears, not because they are afraid of their power but because video game makers want nothing to do with such a horrible industry that can barely make a single good movie a year at this point.

1 out of 10,000 movies released every year are even worth watching. (last few being Inception/District 9/... some other remakes that actually turned out crappier than the first remake somehow. oh and book to movies which are always fucking terrible.)

1 out of 100 video games, (including any and all flash games.) are in fact worth playing.

The movie industry is a failure and saying the video game industry is worse than them is a fucking insult that I detest to the very bottomless depths of my soul!

Hell, MGS still has a story action movies haven't even tried to beat in all these fucking years. Hell, no movie will ever get to the depths that Nier or Bioshock have gotten to. None. hell, I can find NARUTO FILLER EPISODES WITH MORE EMOTION THAN MODERN MOVIES!!!!!

Compare video games to books. At least video games like fucking COD have more fucking respect than Twilight or any transformers movie will ever have.

Yes, I have entered rage mode for this post. You know what. I don't mind if I get modded for the fucking truth of this.

Video games can have many different ways to tell a story, first person, third person, or something else. To even different forms such as cutscenes/interactive events/ectera. Video games are the medium that film wanted to become in all reality. A truly engrossing medium that can bring in anyone and make them into the hero/villain in a smart way. Video games, on the SINGLE merit alone made them better to film, not just now, but long a fucking go when video games with characters BEGAN!

Someone's being a little harsh arent they? You must watch some really crappy movies.

#45 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

@Buzzkill said:

@mosespippy said:

Anyone who posted a cutscene needs to think about the topic more. No animated video can show why games are superior because they aren't interactive. This guy is basically asking the 1920 equivalent of what movie soundtrack best showcases why movies are better than radio.

He wanted something that could show video games evoke emotion. Nothing is going to beat out Animal Crossing is Tragic, not even that FF7 Aries dies bullshit.

Don't bold everything in your reply, it just the same as using all caps. use the bold feature sparingly.

#46 Edited by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Brendan said:

@Branthog said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Deadmeat:

None. Your friend, and you to be honest, need to grow up a little. Movies and games don't compare because they are different experiences. You get different, valid things out of both. But comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Yep. That was kind of what my comment was getting at, too. I feel that all the games we bleat on about having "such amazing story" don't compare to the quality of story in good movies and books (and certainly not the quality of GREAT movies and books). At the same time, I don't want games to be movies. I want them to have great stories executed very well. We aren't there yet. But I don't just want a fucking interactive movie. If that's what people think games need to evolve into, before they care about playing videogames, then they don't actually care about playing games. They just want to watch a movie, in the first place.

I'm just quoting this to show my appreciation for this perspective. A medium that focuses on growing by aping another medium will never truly find it's potential.

Yet it is aping that medium better than even some of the biggest quality movies out there anymore, that is either sad, or fucking amazing.

@LiquidSwords said:

@Jay444111:

You are more delusional than usual! Where are you getting these retarted facts from? Seriously, I want to know!

Real fucking life expierence mainly. The movie industry is where ideas go to fucking die and never return. It is the bed of where writers never get paid or respected due to living in such by a means of a hair in such a shitty medium anymore.

I would rather end my own life than work in the movie industry. It has shown to be completely incompetent for years now. With movies like Transformers coming out in droves, while ones such as Inception and even Scott Pilgrim Versus the world get only 1% of attention compared to the shit known as the hollywood machine.

Also, the sheer quantities of crap coming from the medium and with those crappy movies actually making money, it has shown that even a talentless hack can get rich.

Video games do not let this happen, if you run a brand new studio, and if you just keeping making crap after crap, you will go under and you will never come back out again unless you really try your best to actually fucking make a great game.

You have to EARN your way in by doing your fucking best and creating the best shit possible.

The movie industry has never run this way before, thus they will never learn and sooner or later, they will die out a medium. No one will care if the movie industry dies. At this point, they might as well put themselves out of their misery just to get it over with instead of dragging what little of what was good in the movie industry in the fucking shit.

#47 Posted by JauntyHat (323 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

Also, the sheer quantities of crap coming from the medium and with those crappy movies actually making money, it has shown that even a talentless hack can get rich.

Video games do not let this happen, if you run a brand new studio, and if you just keeping making crap after crap, you will go under and you will never come back out again unless you really try your best to actually fucking make a great game.

You have to EARN your way in by doing your fucking best and creating the best shit possible...

Shhh no one tell him about the Wii shovelware, the tons of crap on the PS3, 360, Smart Phones, and the PC.

#48 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Brendan said:

@Jay444111 said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Jay444111:

I know you wouldn't let my comment stand un-questioned. My God I'm starting to understand the Jay444111 patterns. Fuck.

How about taking a class in reading starting now and actually read what I have to say for once.

Jay. You're so dumb. Stop it. Stop communicating with us. I mean "us" as a collective of individuals who have more than two brain cells. Dear god.

Again, read what I have to say and respond to it like an adult you claim to be.

#49 Edited by lockwoodx (2479 posts) -

@Dagbiker: I blame shitty parchment v2. and the multiple bugs I encounter. The only thing bold I keep in my pants.

btw thanks for being the net nanny with your diligence for proper posting. I heard the Net Nazi has the night off.

#50 Posted by JasonR86 (9703 posts) -

@Jay444111:

Jay, here's a sentence from your last post, "Yet it is aping that medium better than even some of the biggest quality movies out there anymore, that is either sad, or fucking amazing."

Re-read that and tell me what it means. What it sounds like you just said is games are 'aping' (meaning 'borrowing') movies better then movies are aping movies. Then you say that that is either sad (meaning you would think that movies should be able to ape movies better then games can ape movies) or fucking amazing (meaning it is astonishing how much better games can ape movies then movies can ape movies).

Did I get that right?

Online