#1 Posted by Bell_End (1208 posts) -

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-31-bethesda-struggling-with-dawnguard-on-ps3-this-is-not-a-problem-were-positive-we-can-solve#comments

Skyrim vampire add-on Dawnguard may never come to PS3, Bethesda forewarned overnight - and nor may the newly announced Hearthfire DLC, either.

There's a technical problem with Skyrim on PS3, and "this is not a problem we're positive we can solve", Bethesda's global community lead "gstaff" wrote on the company's forum.

The exact problem wasn't detailed, but it sounds like it relates back to the regretful save-game frame-rate glitch the PS3 version of Skyrim suffered at launch - and for weeks after.

Gulp.

Wrote "gstaff": "It's been a few weeks, and we wanted to make sure everyone knows where we're at with Dawnguard. Skyrim is a massive and dynamic game that requires a lot of resources, and things get much more complex when you're talking about sizeable content like Dawnguard. We have tried a number of things, but none of them solve the issue enough to make Dawnguard good for everyone.

"The PS3 is a powerful system, and we're working hard to deliver the content you guys want. Dawnguard is obviously not the only DLC we've been working on either, so the issues of adding content get even more complicated. This is not a problem we're positive we can solve, but we are working together with Sony to try to bring you this content.

"Dawnguard is obviously not the only DLC we've been working on either, so the issues of adding content get even more complicated."

"Gstaff", global community lead, Bethesda

"We wish we had a more definitive answer right now. We understand the frustration when the same content is not available on all platforms. When we have an update, we will certainly let you know. We deeply appreciate all the time and support you have given us, and we'll keep doing our best to return that."

When Bethesda had save-game problems with Skyrim on PS3, a Fallout: New Vegas developer came out of the woodwork with a convincing explanation of what was going on. The engine he used for Fallout: New Vegas evolved for Skyrim, but had similar problems with PS3. The developer, Josh Sawyer, also forewarned that the engine problem would be exacerbated by DLC.

Sawyer's argument, however, was shot down by Bethesda head of PR, Pete Hines. "No, it isn't true," Hines tweeted at the time. "He brings up issues we solved long ago."

This recent development doesn't necessarily mean Hines was telling fibs, but this whole situation will certainly need a lot more explaining.

Do you blame Bethesda or the PS3

#2 Posted by Village_Guy (2482 posts) -

Ouch, that's pretty bad. I won't blame Bethesda for not being more open about this situation since it sucks for them, and they don't want to go out in public and say that they can't get it to work. At the same I can kinda feel something against Bethesda, for not figuring this out before the game was released, but it could all be down to unforeseen consequences...

I guess I could point fingers at Sony for making the PS3 have such a different architecture, that makes it more difficult for developers to work with multiplatform games, but I think Sony probably have heard that many times.

#3 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

I think Bethesda should have been aware of the issues before launch (and I think PS3 owners would have been happy with a delayed working game than a launch one that barely works). Even if they found they couldn't overcome them (which I doubt was true, maybe now after launch, but not prior) they probably shouldn't have produced a PS3 title.

#4 Posted by Doctorchimp (4067 posts) -

@Inkerman said:

I think Bethesda should have been aware of the issues before launch (and I think PS3 owners would have been happy with a delayed working game than a launch one that barely works). Even if they found they couldn't overcome them (which I doubt was true, maybe now after launch, but not prior) they probably shouldn't have produced a PS3 title.

Yes I'm sure that would have fixed everything and made those PS3-only guys real happy, "Sorry, your console is terrible. No Skyrim for you"

#5 Posted by Inkerman (1448 posts) -

@Doctorchimp said:

I think Bethesda should have been aware of the issues before launch (and I think PS3 owners would have been happy with a delayed working game than a launch one that barely works). Even if they found they couldn't overcome them (which I doubt was true, maybe now after launch, but not prior) they probably shouldn't have produced a PS3 title.

Yes I'm sure that would have fixed everything and made those PS3-only guys real happy, "Sorry, your console is terrible. No Skyrim for you"

As opposed to them releasing it and then a few months (of hellish game breaking bugs) later they say "we probably won't be able to fix it, but thanks for the money".

#6 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4307 posts) -

Im actually glad that they havent got it working on the PS3.  It wouldve consumed more of my time and I already had a lot of fun with it on the PS3 version.  I didnt really have any major problems so it was alright

#7 Posted by EpicSteve (6470 posts) -

It makes little sense to me that other developers have been able to put up DLC and full games on PSN and yet with all their resources, Bethesda seems to be totally incapable of providing services they promised.

#8 Posted by DarthOrange (3828 posts) -

If they knew that the PS3 version didn't work then they shouldn't have released it at all. They probably figured they could fix it later so put it off during production and then they were just left with a broken game where they were not sure where it broke because they never payed attention to it. For all we know the PS3 specific problems could be as simple as one line of bad code, but to find that one line in such a massive game is more trouble then it is worth. To quote the dolphins "So long, thanks for all the fish".

#9 Posted by John1912 (1813 posts) -

Well Id like to hope this helps Sony get their head out of their ass and learn to make a dev friendly system, but it wont.

#10 Posted by Freshbandito (642 posts) -

@EpicSteve said:

It makes little sense to me that other developers have been able to put up DLC and full games on PSN and yet with all their resources, Bethesda seems to be totally incapable of providing services they promised.

I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as "well other companies made games using completely different engines and code that work fine on ps3! so Skyrim should work perfectly too!"

#11 Posted by SomeJerk (3130 posts) -

Skyrim was built for the 360. Of course they didn't do more than "does it run, can we play for an hour without anything breaking, good, master the PS3 version".  Bethesda have a long history of being masters at getting the most out of the game engines they use on every platform after all.

#12 Posted by CookieMonster (2414 posts) -

Bethesda

#13 Edited by EpicSteve (6470 posts) -

@Freshbandito said:

@EpicSteve said:

It makes little sense to me that other developers have been able to put up DLC and full games on PSN and yet with all their resources, Bethesda seems to be totally incapable of providing services they promised.

I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as "well other companies made games using completely different engines and code that work fine on ps3! so Skyrim should work perfectly too!"

Regardless as to what the reasons are, no other company is as fucked up on the Playstation 3 as these guys are. There isn't an excuse when other studios can provide for their customers fine.

#14 Posted by DeF (4777 posts) -

so even after making Oblivion and Fallout3, they really couldn't figure out how to retool their engine to finally run properly on PS3? oh man ...

#15 Posted by SpartanHoplite (384 posts) -

@ Village_Guy

""unforeseen consequences...""

no its definately not that, they knew they had released it broken, with the same issues they're previous releases had. last time my $$ goes to them.

#16 Posted by Freshbandito (642 posts) -

@EpicSteve said:

@Freshbandito said:

@EpicSteve said:

It makes little sense to me that other developers have been able to put up DLC and full games on PSN and yet with all their resources, Bethesda seems to be totally incapable of providing services they promised.

I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as "well other companies made games using completely different engines and code that work fine on ps3! so Skyrim should work perfectly too!"

Regardless as to what the reasons are, no other company is as fucked up on the Playstation 3 as these guys are. There isn[t an excuse when other studios can provide for their customers fine.

You can't just disregard the reasons behind the difficulties they're having, that's a ridiculous stance to take, if they could just dispose of the reasons then the game would be working and bug free. Bethesda games are always large, complicated, buggy things and they've been hamstrung by the ps3 architecture here, look how many ports have been awful when heading to the ps3, the argument one should have is whether they should have gone ahead with the release of the game if they were having such difficulty or if they were unaware of the issues that would arise.

#17 Posted by kagato (886 posts) -

Its no different that the Silent Hill collection issues that will never be fixed on Xbox because Konami said it was too hard, i think this is going to continue until the next batch of consoles release. Its a pain when games dont work on your console of choice due to questionable development methods but there isnt a lot that can be done this late in the day. If you feel really strongly about it maybe consider boycotting all games from the developer that has pissed you off...though this may just lead to them releasing games on all consoles execpt that one.

#18 Posted by Make_Me_Mad (3002 posts) -

Bethesda being terrible at making games work? Go figure. They ought to come out and say they just can't figure out how to make their shit work on the PS3, apologize to the people who bought it under the impression that Bethesda had a fucking clue what they were doing, and then stop releasing games that self destruct after an allotted play time.

Also, a game that self destructs after an allotted play time will be the next thing Peter Molyneux goes to work on.

#19 Edited by EpicSteve (6470 posts) -

@Freshbandito said:

@EpicSteve said:

@Freshbandito said:

@EpicSteve said:

It makes little sense to me that other developers have been able to put up DLC and full games on PSN and yet with all their resources, Bethesda seems to be totally incapable of providing services they promised.

I'm afraid it's not quite as simple as "well other companies made games using completely different engines and code that work fine on ps3! so Skyrim should work perfectly too!"

Regardless as to what the reasons are, no other company is as fucked up on the Playstation 3 as these guys are. There isn[t an excuse when other studios can provide for their customers fine.

You can't just disregard the reasons behind the difficulties they're having, that's a ridiculous stance to take, if they could just dispose of the reasons then the game would be working and bug free. Bethesda games are always large, complicated, buggy things and they've been hamstrung by the ps3 architecture here, look how many ports have been awful when heading to the ps3, the argument one should have is whether they should have gone ahead with the release of the game if they were having such difficulty or if they were unaware of the issues that would arise.

I can accept the argument to protect the designers. Yes, I'm sure if they had it there way Skyrim would be perfect for everyone. The bottom line is that we're consumers. I will always side with the consumer within reason. If Skyrim came out busted and it was fixed after a week, I'd even be able to forgive that. Regardless, this game has been a train wreck since its release for the PS3. Bethesda asked $60 for a broken product. People are outright denied the ability to appreciate the work of the development team because for whatever reason, their fault or not, they can't get their shit straight. I'm sure it's a tragedy for them, but they serve the consumers. We shouldn't be sitting on a broken product saying, "it's ok, you'll fix it sooner or later".

#20 Posted by Freshbandito (642 posts) -

@EpicSteve: your current argument seems wildly different from your original statement, we're not saying "it's ok, you'll fix it sooner or later"

I'm not even sure you have a solid point you want to make here, I think that if they knew they had the problems before release they shouldn't have released it but since I'm not on the inside with all the knowledge that entails how do I know if the issues didn't arise later and were unforseen? Noone is defending the current state of the game, they're debating what went wrong.

#21 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

There is a thread about this

#22 Posted by Salarn (463 posts) -

Hopefully the people who own the PS3 version of Skyrim will also be the ones who hate DLC and will be very happy with this news.

It sure would be weird to be both upset about the lack of DLC and upset about games having DLC.

#23 Posted by iam3green (14390 posts) -

well that is terrible to hear. they should get it working so they can release it. they should of known that the game was broken before releasing it. i think that game companies should know how to code for games by now, it's nearly 7 years now.

#24 Posted by Dagbiker (6939 posts) -

The problem with the ps3 was the way it saved the game. Skyrim only saves what you change on the maps. So when you jump on a table and knock all the fruit off of it, it saves the new positions of the fruit. This expands the save data. This is why some people where having trouble 40 hours in, and some people played 100 hours in and didnt have problems.

I dont know how the PS3 handles data, but I imagine using cell processors is slowing the streaming of the save data. Its kinda how some 32 bit programs run really poorly on multi-processor computers. Its not something easily fixed, it has to do with the "Creation Engine"

#25 Posted by Miketakon (513 posts) -

SONY DONT CARE