Posted by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

Chrono Cross is CRAZY. look at this description of one of the bosses from Chronopedia:

Dragon God is a race of cybernetic organisms in Chrono Cross. Originating as a Dragonian science, these mechanical reptiles were built to tame, govern, and manipulate the physical world. Born as one beast, the Dragon God eventually split into six: Fire Dragon, Water Dragon, Earth Dragon, Sky Dragon,Black Dragon, and Green Dragon. Of the same DNA, it is believed a seventh dragon emerged. Undeniably containing its genetic pattern, Harle is believed by some to be this creature, but she is only an offspring of the DNA, not a separation of the original being. (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_God)

...What? This is some Greek mythology bullshit right there folks. Didn't Chrono Trigger have a straightforward story? Wasn't it understandable and easy to follow? Let's make a short synospis right here:

Chrono Trigger: There's this big alien parasite feeding on planets, it attacks earth, you travel through time to kill it.

There. There you go. The whole thing, right there. Now let's try the same thing with Chrono Cross:

Chrono Cross: There's this being called the Time Devourer, it wants to destroy time and space using Schala, you travel through two dimensions to kill it, but not really.

Disclaimer: Before I start making fun of CC's story, let me tell you, it's one of my favourite games of all time. The story is convoluted and dumb in spots (and filled with Deus Ex Machinas and MacGuffins), but there are some really neat ideas here. And the world is super colorful, and the music is amazing. It all has this Hawaiian feel to it, it's super original, and there's nothing quite like it.

Here We Go...

Now, you don't have to elaborate on CT's story all that much. There are nuances, sure, but more or less that's all you need to know. How do you time travel? You have a time machine. Why does the parasite feed on planets? Cause it's an alien animal, it just does. Nature and shit. Why do you travel through time to kill it? You need to understand it to kill it. There you go.

With CC it's a bit more complicated. What's the Time Devourer? Well... It's a... uh... It's a part... of Lavos that merged with Schala... I guess? It resides in a place beyond time, it's like a black hole where all the aborted timelines exist. Why it wants to destroy time and space? It... feeds on time, space and dreams. Yeah, it feeds on DREAMS. That's kind of dumb. Why is it using Schala? I don't know. She's special I guess (because of course that's the explenation).

Why do you travel through dimensions? I don't know. This guy, Balthasar, you know, from CT, devised this super-grand-master plan to repair all timelines and free Schala, and to do so he had to split one timeline into two dimensions. Also, multiple timelines exist within this one timeline. So not only we have two dimensions of one timeline, we have a couple timelines on top of each other here.

Okay, why "not really"? Well, you kind of set Schala free which repairs all timelines and re-integrates all dimensions. You don't really kill her. How do you do that? By using the Chrono Cross of course! What is it? Well... What is a Chrono Trigger? An egg full of potential? It's a MacGuffin. It's a Norstein Bekkler's clone from CT. How is it possible? Who cares, just go with the flow.

Okay, so CC is crazy, but what was all that about dragons at the begining? What's that anime stuff doing there? Well, here's where it gets a tad complicated (ha!). See, I'm not quite sure. Let's see...

[Dragon God] Engineered to crown the city of Dinopolis, it was activated before 2400 A.D.; given sentience, it was able to think and speak on its own. In 2400 A.D., Dinopolis and the Dragon God were both pulled into the Keystone Dimension in 12000 B.C. byThe Entity to counteract the introduction of Chronopolis into the era; a war ensued between the Dragonians and the forces of the time fortress. In the ensuing battle, the actual Dragon God was defeated and somehow consumed by the Time Devourer; a physical avatar remained. (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_God)

What the hell is a Keystone Dimension? And what's Chronopolis? Okay, Keystone Dimension is the original, main timeline of both CT and CC. So basically, they were pulled from their own timeline where reptites killed humans, and into the timeline we all know and love. What's a Time Fortress? It's Chronopolis. Who's the avatar? That would be Harley. More on that subject later. Now shut up.

Okay, Chronopolis was invented by Balthasar in the good future (after Bro-... Crono and the others save it). Let's read about it:

Belthasar drew up an elaborate plan to create a device known as the Chrono Cross that could free Schala from the parasitic creature. He decided to use Chronopolis as a magnificent instrument to this end; the institution would travel back through time, create and populate islands, and indirectly allocate the necessary factors needed to create the Chrono Cross. (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Chronopolis)

So the islands of Chrono Cross (called the El Nido archipelago) were created by the Chronopolis to create... sigh, to create the Chrono Cross.

How... Why... What... How did he even know that... What?

Oh, and there are these two huge things called The Frozen Flame (a part of Lavos that got chipped off a long time ago) and FATE (a super computer controling the Chronopolis).

Going Deeper

Now, by this time you're probably laughing. Why the fuck would you overcomplicate this so fucking much? What the hell is even happening? Maybe now's the time to talk about Chrono Trigger's sequel. No, not CC, we're talking about Radical Dreamers. A PS1 digital novel released only in Japan. It served as a sequel to CT, and expanded upon its story.

So what's it about? Well, it's about this girl Kid and her buddies Serge and Guile. They're thieves called the Radical Dreamers, and they really want to steal the Frozen Flame because they heard it's totes awesome. Can grant wishes and all that jazz. But ho ho dear reader. There's this dick called Lynx that won't let them. And ho ho ho! Kid finds out she's Schala that was... changed into... a child and sent through time by... the... Frozen Flame.... What?

Kid learns of her heritage as princess Schala of Zeal, a meek girl who was coerced to help awaken Lavos with her magical power. As Zeal collapsed, Schala was wracked with anguish and guilt for her role in the incident. Nearby in the Ocean Palace, the Frozen Flame felt her grief and changed her to a baby, sending her to the modern era where Lucca found her. (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Radical_Dreamers:_Nusumenai_H%C5%8Dseki)

Oh jeez.

Now look, this was only a story that inspired Chrono Cross. We have none of that stupidity here.... Right?

Wrong. Serge is our main protagonist, Kid is a CLONE of Schala (Schala can clone herself in the place beyond time, and can send her clone into a timeline, but she can't help herself? Well that's dumb), and yes, Lynx is here. (By the way, apparently the Frozen Flame was a part of Chrono Trigger, but CONVINIENTLY we never hear about it. Apparently there's only one guy in CT (in the prehistoric era) that refers to it as a weid rock he found near the Lavos crater. During the Ryan/Patrick endurance run they mistake it for a sun stone quest clue).

Now Lynx is a WHOLE nother fucking story. He's this weird cat creature that's evil and a real dick. He needs Serge (our protagonist) to switch bodies with him. Oh jeez. Again with this shit. Why can't this story be. Fucking. NORMAL?! Yes, he wants to switch bodies with Serge. Not because he's a weird fox creature and doesn't really fit in to the rest of the CC universe, it's because Serge is the Frozen Flame's arbiter.

Oh JEEZ.

Okay, okay. I know. I know, believe me. If you were to make a game or a story about ONE of these concepts, it would probably be pretty cool. I mean, multiple timelines, split dimensions, supercomputers controling all life (yeah, FATE turns evil- shocker), it's all cool stuff, but you can't just dump all of it into ONE FREAKING GAME. I barely understand any of this, and I've played the game three times!

Three times!

What was I talking about? Oh yeah. The arbiter. So I guess the Frozen Flame picks the first person it sees as a chosen one or some crap like that. And hey, it just happens that Serge found himself at Chronopolis when he was just a kid (after Chronopolis was sent into past, and yeah, the Frozen Flame powered the Chronopolis). Now Prometheus (Robo from CT, yes he resides in Chronopolis) was suppose to keep that stuff under lock, but Balthasar said it would be wicked cool (not an actual quote) if Serge was the arbiter, cause it's a part of the master plan. By the way, Lynx is Serge's father. Dun-dun-duuuun! He was manipulated and later transformed into a cat creature by FATE, after he killed Serge in the second dimension of our timeline. What? Nevermind, let's continue.

Okay, what about Kid, the... sigh, the Schala clone. You know what? No. NO.

Why would you even do that to one of your main characters? Why is this so convoluted and far-fetched? She doesn't even resemble Schala. look:

Right? She looks nothing like...

Wait... What? Why did they change Schala's hair? She had purple hair in CT. And why does she look like a twelve year old? And for that matter...

...why does Crono and the gang look like they were 8?

We will never get the answers to these questions. They probably didn't give a shit, that's my bet. If I were a Japanese developer, I'd probably say something about Lavos, hair-bleaching energy and stuff like that. Yeah, if you squint hard enough it all makes sense. Right. Chrono Cross is a game about squinting. It ALL makes sense if you squint hard enough. Let's Norstein Bekkler the shit out of this story. Want a clone? Here you fucking go. I'm in a GOOD MOOD today, so HERE'S A FUCKING CLONE.

Too Deep?

So, Chronopolis. What happened with it?

As planned by Belthasar, the resulting catastrophe phased Chronopolis far into the past of 12000 BC Lavos, awoken in the Ocean Palace disaster, used the Frozen Flame in the facility to do this in hopes of mucking with the timeline.Dinopolis was shifted in to the Keystone Dimension by the planet to counter Chronopolis's introduction into the past; once the staff of the time fortress became aware of their surroundings, they dispatched a force to deal with theDragonians. The battle was soon won; FATE divided the Dragon God into six components (...) (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Chronopolis)

Okay. I don't get the logic, but it KIND OF makes sense. I hope you're following all this.

So basically this enormous instalation called the Chronopolis, which was planned to be used as a time controling facility was created to... Well... Control time. But not really- because as it was created Baltasar found out about the Schala/Lavos fiasco. And then he said- hey, I'll create El Nido (those are the islands of Chrono Cross, that's where the game takes place) to create the Chrono Cross! But in order to do so, I have to transport the Chronopolis into the past. And so he did, and the entity (God? The planet? Nobody knows. But it was mentioned in CT during the campfire scene), governed by the laws of time space I presume, countered that enormous paradox by transporting a huge facility (governed by reptites (aka Dragonians)) from another timeline into El Nido.

That is really freaking far-fetched game. And we have to just take all that in. It doesn't happen in the game, it happened BEFORE the events of the game.

Sigh. What's next?

FATE also aspired to construct its own paradise; though its primary objective was to not disturb history until the future came by not making contact with theZenan mainland, FATE drew up a plan that would allow it to create its own civilization and preclude any outside contact. It terraformed the archipelago of El Nido and selected several staff members to populate the islands. FATE also devised a system of manipulation over the island's future inhabitants; called the Records of FATE, these machines could rewrite personality and memory when accessed, ensuring that FATE would dominate the lives of its people. The population it had selected was then wiped clean of its memory and dispersed throughout the islands (...) (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Chronopolis)

Now that's a really cool fucking idea. I REALLY like that. If the whole game was about this? None of this Time Devourer, clones, Cat people, Dragon nonsense? That would have been amazing! I mean, there's so much potential here for some hard-ass science fiction! But no, the game just slaps us in the face with a couple sentences and then carries on with its nonsense. The nerve.

Either way. What's up with those Dragons? Well, the reptites had this Dragon God uber super being that they kept in their little fortress. It was then divided into six less powerful dragons by FATE. How? I DON'T KNOW. Stop asking me these questions! Squint damn you! SQUINT!

So the dragons want to anihilate the humans. Makes sense, they were made by Reptites- Reptites hated humans in CT. And they hated humans because we're apparently twisted by Lavos. Like, we evolved super fast because... Lavos. So, in order to do some espionage shit in El Nido they create Harle, an inconspicuous MIME/CLOWN that speaks with a goddamn FRENCH ACCENT. YEAH. Nice going dumbasses. She blends in quite nicely. Holy shit.

So we have FATE and Lynx as one party, Harle and Dragons as the second party, Kid and Baltasar as the third party and Lavos/Time Devourer as the fourth party. There's a bunch of shit happening in this game at the same fucking time. And that's not all of it. On top of that, there's the return of our favourite MacGuffin Chrono Trigger (second MG in this game! Nice!), the Masamune (Now corrupt) and a whole thing with Guardia and Porre fighting a war, which is way beyond me giving a shit. I mean, there are far more important things happening here! A war?! Who caaares?!

This Is INSANE! ABORT! ABORT!

Okay. This is where things get weider... Believe it or not.

See, I've never told you how the original timeline (Keystone Dimension) split into two. Well Baltasar told kid to go back in time with 2pa... Epoch, and save Serge from being murdered by his father- Lynx. This event was so important to the timeline that it was split into two- one where Lynx killed Serge, and one where Serge survived. So the timeline split into two. Here's... something:

When Home World split off, the conditions of its future were shaped so that it would end in obliteration by Lavos, a reversal of Crono's quest to stop the beast. This resulted in Home World's Sea of Eden reflecting the ruined future; Chronopolis never existed in Home World, replaced by this vision of destruction. (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Chronopolis)

OH JEEZ!

Why would anyone even ATTEMPT to unerstand this hodgepodge of keywords slapped together by a madman?!

I'm done. That's it. I tried to see what's going on in this game, I did. I really did. And I did try to explain it- but I didn't even know how to start! This is IN-SANE. I've TRIED. But I guess it has come to this...

I have to play it AGAIN. This time documenting its weird stupid convoluted plot. Make no mistake though- I do love the game. It looks and sounds FANTASTIC. Too bad it has an inferiority complex and wanted to one-up its predecessor by throwing a bunch of ideas tohgether hoping it would kind of work and be deep and shit. You can't do that Chrono Cross. You have to EXPLORE some of these ideas. Give them depth beyond empty sentences on a computer screen.

Besides, the thing that makes CT really stand out is Lavos. Three hours into the game you see his stupid fucking face, and you know. You know you'll fight that ugly son of a bitch at the end of the game. And on your way there- it's nothing but Lavos this- Lavos that. Even the sound he makes makes your skin crawl. Everytime he shrieks, shit is going down in the story, so at the end of the game it's a Pavlovian-like response to that sound. You just want to run.

Let's compare and contrast, in Chrono Cross you find out about the Time Devourer nonsense a couple hours before the end of the game. Lynx is the main antagonist for 90% of the game, and that cat looking motherfucker isn't really that scary. He's kind of stupid looking.

Bah, whatever. The game's still cool. So there you go. Maybe I'll understand more after playing it again. See ya!

#1 Posted by Brodehouse (9654 posts) -

This is an incredible post that excoriates the absurd, absolute Goddamn wholesale madness that was pointed towards 14 year old me and thrust into my heart until I almost stopped liking Chrono Trigger as a result. I launch a motion to have this featured on the community spotlight because Holy Crap. We need trials for the people who wrote that game and then called it a sequel to Chrono Trigger.

But bonkers? No. BULLSHT is more like it. Holy FUCK dude, Chrono Cross.

#2 Edited by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

@brodehouse: It took me a whole lotta time to put this together. And it STILL barely makes sense. So yeah, a lot of bullshit in this game for sure.

#3 Posted by believer258 (11685 posts) -

I don't want to read anything else about Chrono Cross.

#4 Posted by BisonHero (6256 posts) -

I continue to feel very comfortable with the fact that I have played Chrono Trigger, and never played Chrono Cross.

I just don't get what happened in the 90s that created this environment where JRPGs were not only some of the only console games telling long stories, but also most of them went too far and made their stories needlessly convoluted and batshit insane.

As far as I'm concerned, Skies of Arcadia is Chrono Trigger 2. There, I said it.

#5 Posted by BisonHero (6256 posts) -

Also, Lynx is basically Captain Ginyu. Think about it.

#6 Posted by cloudymusic (1063 posts) -

Thanks for reminding me why I never finished this game back in the day. Maybe some day I'll go back to it, but man...it's really convoluted for no good reason.

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#7 Posted by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

Also, Lynx is basically Captain Ginyu. Think about it.

Yeah, there was this whole kerfuffle with Lynx turning into a frog, then this lady then the frog again... It was really convoluted.

Wait...

#8 Edited by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

Chrono Cross is an amazing game if you consider it a fan-fiction sequel and cover your ears any time someone says that its canon. Even after a few playthroughs of my own, multiple screenshot let's plays and reading this post I'm still not entirely sure what is going on in Chrono Cross.

Also, WHY DOES THIS EXIST!!! (Don't get me started on Poshul please. Or Neofio. Or Turnip.)

#9 Posted by Excast (837 posts) -

While I love certain aspects of that game...yeah...it is kind of a confusing mess.

#10 Posted by Veektarius (4653 posts) -

I tried replaying Chrono Cross something like... 5 years ago? Keeping in mind I also played it when it was relatively new and the game made no impression on me whatsoever. I don't remember any of this shit even from my second attempt. I just remember a game with terrible characters and no coherent story to speak of. If everything your'e saying is true and not buried in some hidden room in the game, I have to assume that this game somehow exceeded my mind's capacity to try to comprehend a game's story (which has a very high threshold, I assure you). Anyway, I continue to think Chrono Cross is a bad game.

#11 Posted by BisonHero (6256 posts) -

@veektarius said:

If everything your'e saying is true and not buried in some hidden room in the game, I have to assume that this game somehow exceeded my mind's capacity to try to comprehend a game's story (which has a very high threshold, I assure you). Anyway, I continue to think Chrono Cross is a bad game.

Here is the great irony of video games:

I bet some of the things outlined in this blog post were only ever explained in exactly one sentence within the game itself, and if like your dog was barking when that scene played out or someone came to your front door, you would miss it, and then continue on with that playthrough, having missed this incredibly important detail that explains like half the setup of the game world or a specific character.

Conversely, Nintendo will use different coloured text to highlight the most braindead obvious things in Zelda games, as if I don't already fucking know that I need to use bombs to destroy rocks.

#12 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11502 posts) -

I bought a copy of this game last year for the purposes of maybe making fun of it on the internet and didn't play more than the introductory sequence. It still sits on my shelf. Waiting for the day I tell myself "You know what sounds like a great idea? Playing a late-era PS1 JRPG with all of the bizarre mechanics and nonsensical plot that entails". Still haven't said that, and the only JRPG I have any intention of playing in the near future is Final Fantasy XII international.

Also, for as much as people despise Chrono Cross it's worth mentioning that it reviewed extremely well, to the point of getting a perfect 10 from Gamespot back when that meant something. Hearing people attempt to summarize the plot just confuses me from that angle to no end.

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#13 Edited by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

@davidwitten22:

You forgot about Mojo.

Not that he cares, look at all that swagger.

@veektarius:

I wouldn't say it's buried, but you gotta do a lot of talking to NPCs, seemingly pointless exploring and... looking things up on the internet, because let's be honest, I would not have been able to talk this much about CC without the internet.

And about 20% of what you've read here was taken from the interviews with the creators of the game. Like the fact that Prometheus is Robo (Bobo) from CT. Yeah, it was stated in CT that his "name" is Prometheus, but you know. It was never clearly stated that yes, this is indeed Robo.

#14 Edited by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

I liked Chrono Cross right up until I was explaining the plot to a friend of mine to get him interested in the game and the next day he came back saying he had looked further into it online and that I didn't even remotely understand what was going on in the game. He was right, apparently I really didn't.

Oh well. It had a fantastic battle system, from what I remember. Maybe Square's last good one, in fact.

#15 Edited by Dallas_Raines (2141 posts) -

The CT cast die in CC, as far I'm concerned that shit is non-canon.(And so are the stupid extra endings in the PS1 and DS ports they put in to justify it. Yeah, the guy who fucking burps and breaks the forth wall killed these beloved characters.)

The lack of involvement from the 'dream team' makes it pretty easy to completely disregard CC, actually.

#16 Edited by csl316 (8198 posts) -

I really liked Chrono Cross, but part of that might be because I didn't play Chrono Trigger until later on. Great battle system, awesome visuals, lots of secrets. And I thought the music was amazing.

Plus crazy stuff like:

Edit: Boo, no embedding.

#17 Edited by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

@dallas_raines: Yeah, from my understanding Lynx kills Lucca, Robo dies when they deactivate the Prometheus thing in Chronopolis and Marle and Crono die during the Guardia-Porre war. The fate of the others remains unknown. Except for Magus who MIGHT be the amnesiac Guile, but nobody's really sure about that. What a freaking MESS.

But I do love the setting the music and the battle system's neat. So there's that I guess.

#18 Edited by EXTomar (4530 posts) -

I thought Chrono Cross was provocative and bonkers! Anyone bold enough to try to touch and follow up on Chrono Trigger has got to be crazy and daring.

#19 Edited by JazGalaxy (1576 posts) -

Also, for as much as people despise Chrono Cross it's worth mentioning that it reviewed extremely well, to the point of getting a perfect 10 from Gamespot back when that meant something. Hearing people attempt to summarize the plot just confuses me from that angle to no end.

Oh yeah, it's a gorgeous game, and the graphics were phenomenal at the time. Even now, the color choices and whatnot stand out incredibly well. Until the craziness sets in, I recall it being on par with chrono trigger. THe battle system, especially, I recall being very, very good. Something about colors or something?

#20 Edited by Nicked (246 posts) -

@csl316 said:

I really liked Chrono Cross, but part of that might be because I didn't play Chrono Trigger until later on. Great battle system, awesome visuals, lots of secrets. And I thought the music was amazing.

Plus crazy stuff like:

Edit: Boo, no embedding.

I'm sure my nostalgia is clouding things, since Chrono Cross was my first JRPG and I was probably 10 or so when I played it. I do remember getting confused by the story towards the end, but I liked getting all the characters, the lack of random battles, the art direction was aesthetically pleasing to me, and the music is really fantastic. Also it was CRAZY when Serge and Lynx switch bodies and you wake up in that trippy world.

But again, I didn't have the context of Chrono Trigger. I think CC's reputation would be different if it was a not understood as a sequel and had been more of its own game. It's a nonsense story but there's stuff to like about the game in general. Except for the mole-people. They fucking sucked.

#21 Posted by FateOfNever (1816 posts) -
@twolines said:

@dallas_raines: Yeah, from my understanding Lynx kills Lucca, Robo dies when they deactivate the Prometheus thing in Chronopolis and Marle and Crono die during the Guardia-Porre war. The fate of the others remains unknown. Except for Magus who MIGHT be the amnesiac Guile, but nobody's really sure about that. What a freaking MESS.

At one point he was written as Magus, but as the writing and development went on they scrapped that connection to CT and he is, officially, no longer Magus. I blame everyone involved in every aspect of the writing for that game (from character writing to plot writing to world writing) for why I hate that game as much as I do.

#22 Edited by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

Guys. Guys, guys, guys. I figured it out.

When Home World split off, the conditions of its future were shaped so that it would end in obliteration by Lavos, a reversal of Crono's quest to stop the beast. This resulted in Home World's Sea of Eden reflecting the ruined future; Chronopolis never existed in Home World, replaced by this vision of destruction. (http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Chronopolis)

Now, this means that when Kid saved Serge, she altered the timeline (in one of the dimensions). In this altered timeline Lavos fucks up the future. Which doesn't make sense, because you just need the timeline to be the same up to 1000 AD (for Crono and the gang to save the future), and CC takes place in 1020, which means that even if you change the timeline from 1020 until the end of time, it wouldn't affect what happened in CT. So I'm calling bullshit. But whatever. There are bigger plot holes here.

So now we have the bleak future from 2300 AD from the original CT. Now I don't really get why the Chronopolis still exists in El Nido (only in an altered state resembling the bleak future). Since the bleak future is back, the nice future is gone, and with it Balthasar and Chronopolis. Which means that it couldn't have been sent back in time, which means it shoud just disappear.

However. If it was never created, it was never sent back in time, and it never altered the future. If it never altered the future, the future stays nice, and Balthasar creates Chronopolis, and then sends it back in time. And then it alters the... future... and the Chronopolis disappears again... uhhh...

Time Paradox you guys. I found the ONE FLAW in Chrono Cross's story. One little imperfection... I... Eh.

#24 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

@twolines said:

@davidwitten22:

You forgot about Mojo.

Not that he cares, look at all that swagger.

@veektarius:

I wouldn't say it's buried, but you gotta do a lot of talking to NPCs, seemingly pointless exploring and... looking things up on the internet, because let's be honest, I would not have been able to talk this much about CC without the internet.

And about 20% of what you've read here was taken from the interviews with the creators of the game. Like the fact that Prometheus is Robo (Bobo) from CT. Yeah, it was stated in CT that his "name" is Prometheus, but you know. It was never clearly stated that yes, this is indeed Robo.

Oh I didn't forget about Mojo. How could I? LOOK AT THAT GUY. I just consider the four listed in my post D- tier while Mojo is merely D tier.

Yeah, I have a tier list for Chrono Chross.

#25 Edited by Leila (4 posts) -
#26 Edited by Slag (4093 posts) -

I played Chrono Cross when it came out, liked it alright not as much as CT though, but didn't understand the story at all until Wikipedia etc hit the internet years later.

#28 Posted by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

@leila said:

@twolines: In Greek mythology, Prometheus (Greek: Προμηθεύς, pronounced [promɛːtʰeús]) is a Titan, culture hero, and trickster figure who is credited with the creation of man from clay and the theft of fire for human use, an act that enabled progress and civilization. He is known for his intelligence and as a champion of humanity.

Credit:Wikipedia

Yeah, I thought it was a neat little link to the Greek mythology. Although the credit goes to Chrono Trigger, not CC.

I suppose the robots named him Prometheus- because they saw their creators, humans, as gods, and Robo was made to trick the humans and free his people from their control.

@fateofnever: Makes sense. He's ALMOST Magus, but I've read they excluded him because the story would get too convoluted. Haha. Ha. Yeah...

#29 Posted by csl316 (8198 posts) -

@nicked: You're right, the fact that it's a sequel kind of plays against it. Stand alone the game kicks so much ass, which we both got since we played it first. Ah well.

#30 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11502 posts) -

You made me go down the hole of reading that wiki. Man, there are A LOT of characters in that game and half of them seem like jokes or have the most inane conditions required to obtain them.

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#31 Edited by ThunderSlash (1576 posts) -

I love Chrono Cross, but to this day I still don't know what the FUCK happens at the end. You do some magic rainbow shit and then the universe is alright? That ending is the KOTOR II ending of JRPGs.

#32 Posted by Draxyle (1798 posts) -

I really feel like all the Chrono Trigger elements in Chrono Cross are just the anchor around the neck of that game. If you removed every last connection it would probably help solve a great number of problems. As a standalone game, I think Cross has a heck of a lot going for it. Some of that absolute insanity of plot could really work with a little bit better execution I'd think.

My big problem with it was just the sheer tonal whiplash from Trigger to Cross. Chrono Trigger was a self-aware, silly, and not self-serious at all story. I mean, the game ends with you getting into a time machine to find your mother who fell into a time portal because you didn't feed your cats. On the flipside, I don't think Chrono Cross has even a shred of humor in comparison. It's not even the same franchise at that point.

But the music.. the music in Chrono Cross deserves a better game to accompany it, I'm sad to say.

#33 Posted by Levio (1784 posts) -

Never played the game, but I love the music.

#34 Edited by SpaceRunaway (852 posts) -

@thunderslash:

Man if only it were like, 10 years ago I think I could have done a pretty good job explaining the ending. All I can remember about it now is that you free Schala and then Serge's memories of it get erased, and I don't even know how accurate that is.

I too loved Chrono Cross, even though it wasn't the game anyone was expecting (In most cases, it probably wasn't the game they wanted either). I thought the connections it had to Chrono Trigger were interesting, at the least. Perhaps in an alternate timeline Chrono Break turns out to be more than a lapsed trademark, and we get something that tied the two games together more.

So, to the question posed, both. It's one of those games I probably can't ever go back to, but I sure enjoyed the hell out of it.

#35 Posted by TwoLines (2791 posts) -

@draxyle said:

My big problem with it was just the sheer tonal whiplash from Trigger to Cross. Chrono Trigger was a self-aware, silly, and not self-serious at all story. I mean, the game ends with you getting into a time machine to find your mother who fell into a time portal because you didn't feed your cats. On the flipside, I don't think Chrono Cross has even a shred of humor in comparison. It's not even the same franchise at that point.

Huh, you're right. never thought about this. Chrono Cross is quite self-serious. I guess the silliness lies in the bizzare cast of characters... Like the skeleton whose body you have to collect and assemble or the walking, talking voodoo doll. But the main storyline is a no-jokes-allowed zone. It's a weird contrast.

The other problem I have with the game, is that with this many characters- most of them don't have any depth. Most of the time (after you get them to join your party) they have nothing to say about what's going on in the story. A vast majority of these guys don't have original dialogue, which makes the world seem a bit soulless. I mean, Serge is a silent protagonist, so he HAS to have a strong cast of characters for the story to work. The whole thing's kind of emotionless.

Final Fantasy IX has a crazy ass story, but every story beat results in an in-depth conversation. The characters suffer emotional breakdowns, depression, anger. Here it's just... Okay, what's next on the table? Magical dragons? Got it. Changing my body with a cat person? Okay. Nobody even talks about it. It's kind of empty. Suikoden 2 did a way better job with its story, and it had a silent protagonist AND 100+ recruitable characters.

#36 Posted by Svenzon (718 posts) -

@bisonhero: Evangelion happened. After that Final Fantasy 7 came along and then everybody felt this weird need to fuck with the player.

Despite all the insanity I really liked Chrono Cross, but after playing it I turned away from JRPGs. The setting was great and I still listen to the soundtrack regularly. Except the battle music. That was terrible.