Conspiracy Theory: Upcoming Consoles Too Weak for Unreal Engine 4

Cliffy B. and Mike Capps have left the building. Maybe because the next standard in mass market consumer gaming hardware didn't meet their expectations in processing power and memory, and isn't enough to deal with what they've prepped for Unreal Engine 4 - essentially not letting them make the games they've been clamoring to do.

They don't really need the money anymore, so what they've got is their ambition. If the hardware doesn't enpower them, and other technically minded developers, to chase their ambitions - it's not inconceivable that that's a reason for them to leave Epic Games. Could be the core gaming market is going to be stagnant for yet another generation.

Did Nintendo's phenomenal success with sub-par hardware poison the well for the rest of us? Will the next generation merely bring more interface gimmicks and an increase of standard rendering resolution to 1080p, rather than ramp up overall fidelity of games (AI, Physics, Scale, Cleaner Picture/Rendering - simply prettier and bigger and much more densely interactive)?

What do you think? Are you as afraid as me, of a less powerful generation of hardware than expected? Might it be a partial reason for so many high profile Epic Games personalities quitting their jobs?

Not a chance your headline is possible. Were it the case that next-gen systems come in under Epic's expectations, Epic would adjust down. Their business is selling licences.

Also consider that Epic touts UE4 as working on everything from the smartphone to a high-end PC.

They wouldn't leave their company because another companies hardware isn't up to scratch. If anything would change it would be that they would go back to PC development as a main source, just like hardcore gamers will/have been doing.

@Kingloo said:

Not a chance your headline is possible. Were it the case that next-gen systems come in under Epic's expectations, Epic would adjust down. Their business is selling licences.

Also consider that Epic touts UE4 as working on everything from the smartphone to a high-end PC.

Of course they'll make Unreal Engine 4 fit what the hardware is going to be - but if it's a lot weaker than they have clamored for, then it could be Dr. Mike Capps and Cliffy B. aren't interested in working in the field - for now.

@Soap said:

They wouldn't leave their company because another companies hardware isn't up to scratch. If anything would change it would be that they would go back to PC development as a main source, just like hardcore gamers will/have been doing.

I don't think that's how business works. That's how idealism works, and that doesn't pay.

Except that Capps nor CliffyB have anything to do with the actual engine, that's primarily being developed by Tim Sweeney (the Carmack of Epic) and he's working on Unreal Engine 4 since 2008 or so.

People have seen games that look way too good for MS and Sony not to at least get close to the 1313 and Crysis 3's.

@Seppli said:

@Soap said:

They wouldn't leave their company because another companies hardware isn't up to scratch. If anything would change it would be that they would go back to PC development as a main source, just like hardcore gamers will/have been doing.

I don't think that's how business works. That's how idealism works, and that doesn't pay.

No of course, business won't follow the crowd. Because I'm sure most people will flock to under powered consoles.

Well, Arthur Gies said (in the comments section of some Polygon article/review) that he's heard some specs about Durango from devs that are pretty impressive. I'd have doubted it before, but with that tossed in, I'd outright say it's not going to happen.

But the idea that the upcoming consoles might not be as powerful as they could be for the price is reasonable.

maybe not too powerful but consoles are becoming less powerful. i kind of think because of the wii and how popular people that. sony and microsoft are going to follow that with less powerful hardware. i hope they don't follow that.

Wow, really? Really? I think the nosedive the Wii took because of people were actually getting tired of not getting good games and in HD has something to do with it, I am sure Sony and MS paid attention and know they can't hardware that is left behind.

Those guys left because, like with a lot of people, they have been in the game long enough, and just want to break away (temporary or permanent). Sometimes they come back (maybe with a new approach/ perspective), and sometimes they move on to something else. It's only natural.

Don't care cuz I don't mind sticking to my PC longer and most of your extrapolations are on the verge of just being silly guesses. lol at calling the Wii U a "phenomenal success".

@Soap said:

@Seppli said:

@Soap said:

They wouldn't leave their company because another companies hardware isn't up to scratch. If anything would change it would be that they would go back to PC development as a main source, just like hardcore gamers will/have been doing.

I don't think that's how business works. That's how idealism works, and that doesn't pay.

No of course, business won't follow the crowd. Because I'm sure most people will flock to under powered consoles.

Looking at how the 'crowd' last flocked to the Wii in unprecedented droves, things aren't looking good. You also need to think of how expensive cutting edge games have become. Your so called crowd won't float a 50+ millions heavy production.

They'll find a way to make it work on consoles. The market is too big for them to not to.

@Colourful_Hippie said:

Don't care cuz I don't mind sticking to my PC longer and most of your extrapolations are on the verge of just being silly guesses. lol at calling the Wii U a "phenomenal success".

The Wii sure was. The jury's still out on the Wii U, but maybe shit will float for them twice?

I would think MS and Sony would have a vested interest in seeing that their consoles would at a minimum be able to run UE4; the platform that allowed some of the most successful games of the last generation to happen. Unless UE4 is just purely conceptual at this point, there's no way developers, publishers, pretty much anyone with any stake in the next-gen would stay silent this long if one of the most widespread engines around wasn't going to be a viable platform for their upcoming games.

As for people leaving. Dunno. Cliff was at Epic for 20 years, almost half of which was likely dedicated single franchise. If that were me, the prospect of possibly doing another 5 on the same franchise, even on next-generation hardware, would seem at best unsatisfying. He's more than earned a break and when he's ready to come back, he can basically go anywhere or do anything he wants.

@Seppli said:

@Soap said:

They wouldn't leave their company because another companies hardware isn't up to scratch. If anything would change it would be that they would go back to PC development as a main source, just like hardcore gamers will/have been doing.

I don't think that's how business works. That's how idealism works, and that doesn't pay.

Under the theory that they left because new console hardware wasn't powerful enough to run UE4, it would make sense to push PC development and punish the console developers for not creating more powerful hardware.

Of course, this is *rarely* how business works, so it's both unlikely that they wouldn't tone down the engine and even more unlikely that they would leave the company because new consoles aren't powerful enough to run UE4. (Which has, of course, not yet been shown to be true.)

I also think you're underestimating how powerful the PC market is right now. It's not dominant, but it's certainly not something people can safely ignore.

@Ravenlight: @Viking_Funeral:

My point being that Cliffy and Mike left, because the next standard in consumer gaming hardware didn't meet THEIR expectations. They might have wanted to do much more with Unreal Engine 4 and their games, than the upcoming console generation allows, and hence have lost interest in staying with Epic Games, and that particular avenue of being in the games industry - catering to the mass market and its technical and economic limitations.

Could well be they both look to getting back into PC-centric and tech-driven enthusiast development on their own, or with a different partner.

Or they left because they both have made a lot of money and have spent an enormous amount of their adult lives working at a company and felt like they needed a break and reassess where their lives are going and what they want to do in the future.

Edit: I also believe the next-gen of consoles won't be 2-3 years ahead of the PC like they have traditionally been. I think they'll match a high end PC that you could build now.

@Seppli: Also, the stuff that they showed of Unreal 3 was clearly pretty scalable. The assets in the UE4 demo were pretty low fidelity all things considered. It rendered really nice and there were a lot of great features, but those can be used with assets that scale throughout a lot of ranges.

This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've heard yet on this forum. OP obviously has no knowledge of business, R&D, or the gaming industry.

Hey Guys lets invest millions into a new engine, without asking MS of Sony about future specs.

OH MAN! GREAT IDEA! You do that, while I go burn $100 bills for fun.

OH and for funzies, lets make the Engine unable to scale down from max performance!

OMG YES! Intellectual Orgasm!

Sigh...

I'm sure the next X-Box and Playstation will be capable, next-generation machines regardless of whether they can run all the bells and whistles on UE4 or not. The core consumer would punish them if they tried to sell outdated hardware as new and there's nothing they could create that would be as popular as the Wii remote.

@Jay_Ray said:

Edit: I also believe the next-gen of consoles won't be 2-3 years ahead of the PC like they have traditionally been. I think they'll match a high end PC that you could build now.

What? The 360 wasn't 2-3 years ahead of the PC at all and the PS3 certainly wasn't.

Within 2 years of the 360 coming out, Crysis launched, and before that PC versions of games looked better than 360 still.

Come now.

Xbox 720 and PS4 now with 70% fewer character models who appear to be jacked up on steroids!

Them leaving Epic would magically make console hardware better if they went to a different company?... Also: Next-gen hardware is going to be a big jump. If it's not, most people won't buy them.

@Sooty said:

@Jay_Ray said:

Edit: I also believe the next-gen of consoles won't be 2-3 years ahead of the PC like they have traditionally been. I think they'll match a high end PC that you could build now.

What? The 360 wasn't 2-3 years ahead of the PC at all and the PS3 certainly wasn't.

Within 2 years of the 360 coming out, Crysis launched, and before that PC versions of games looked better than 360 still.

Come now.

Exactly, rarely you'll get a game like Crysis 1 that has been developed to push the boundaries of what a high end PC can do (shit that old ass game is still being used for current day benchmarks). Most games are always going to be made within the parameters of a console and with each new generation those developers have more room to work with and push those consoles to their own limits but you rarely see developers push the edges of high end PC hardware because there's little to no incentive to do that.

i dont think so . . lol, the unreal engine 4 is not as great a leap as it should be.. i would expect it would get more powerful from now until the consoles are announced .. .

I don't think Mike Capps actually left, he's still with the company but taking a lesser role this time. Also if the UE4 can't run on a proper next gen console then clearly it's a shitty engine to begin with.

Go look at video game charts for any video game released, the console versions outsell PC 9 times out of 10, regardless of the game. They'll adjust Unreal, or the consoles will adjust for Unreal like the xbox360 did.

Cliffy leaving because of hardware sounds ridiculous. His strenght was making good games, not just technical marvels. If anything he would want to stay at the company that would allow him to create whatever he wanted with nearly unlimited money. Sounds like he was just tired and wanted a change of pace or something.

@Beaudacious said:

This is probably one of the most ridiculous things I've heard yet on this forum. OP obviously has no knowledge of business, R&D, or the gaming industry.

Hey Guys lets invest millions into a new engine, without asking MS of Sony about future specs.

OH MAN! GREAT IDEA! You do that, while I go burn $100 bills for fun.

OH and for funzies, lets make the Engine unable to scale down from max performance!

OMG YES! Intellectual Orgasm!

Sigh...

Get off your high horse, if you can't even read and understand a simple text - unless of course you've not read past the title, which is in bad form, especially when there's such strict limitations to title length.

I'm talking of Cliffy B. and Mike Capps leaving Epic Games, and how that may be because the next standard in consumer gaming hardware is not enticing to them, so they don't want to further work on Unreal Engine, and core mass market games for now, because of the limited prospects of doing new and exciting things with it, due to weak hardware specs.

They don't need to work anymore, if they don't want to. Cliffy certainly has been outspoken about wanting really powerful next generation consoles. It's not outlandish to think he might be disappointed with what Microsoft and Sony have cobbled together, and hence opted to do different things with his life for now. I hear he's gotten hitched. Might be he's going to be a family man first, and a gamedesigner second now. Might be different, if he was excited about the upcoming generation of mass market consumer gaming hardware.

I'm well aware that a developer as influental as Epic Games is in the know about what the upcoming hardware is going to be like - not just ballpark figures. That's pretty much the point of this here Conspiracy Theory.