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#1 Posted by Humanity (8728 posts) -

The next generation is basically two months away. We are looking at another 5-8 years of playing games on the PS4 and XBO, yet the controllers that these consoles will use remain more or less identical to the Playstation 1 pad from over 10 years ago. I don't know what they could have done to change things up, or if the current setup is already too cluttered as it is - but I do think adding a touchpad or rumble isn't enough to really push innovative gameplay forward. Hopefully I am wrong and the wizards at these development studios will come up with some groundbreaking new gameplay, but I personally can't imagine how much different first person shooters can possibly be with this setup. How much more exciting can the gameplay get when we're still pulling the same left and right triggers for about 8 hours?

Do you guys think that this decision to stick with what works instead of coming up with something new that offers more options will kind of hurt games in the long run? I'm certain that the next generation will have some truly outstanding titles, but I can't keep wondering if we wouldn't have gotten a whole lot more options in terms of exciting new gameplay if they re-imagined the controller in some really revolutionary way.

#2 Posted by audioBusting (1465 posts) -

We had analog triggers and motion controls last gen, and analog sticks before that, so we're not exactly using SNES pads anymore. I think the touchpad is a pretty good development. The Xbox has a better Kinect and the PS4 might have Eye/Move upgrades coming up too, so that's pretty exciting.

#3 Posted by tourgen (4427 posts) -

I don't know. I think the touchpad could work out pretty well and is a good change. I imagine it's pretty hard to come up with new ways of interacting with games that's fun and useful, and works 100% of the time.

#4 Posted by Humanity (8728 posts) -

@tourgen: I don't know if our brains could handle it, like if it's too much at once - but I was thinking if they added mini analog sticks above the back triggers. You'd then be able to have a full range of control over your character - an analog for each limb. Just like I said, I don't know if that isn't too much, like if most people would be able to move two analogs with their thumbs while simultaneously moving a third with an index finger and still pressing triggers.

#5 Posted by Clonedzero (4051 posts) -

No, the controllers are good. Iteration is more effective than spontaneous innovation.

Instead of some stupid gimmick motion controls that EVERYONE hates, we get smarter more informed gradual improvements that actually seem somewhat useful.

They're building on a solid proven game controller and adding new things to it for increased functionality and uses. Instead of drastically changing it altering how you play and interact with games in some unproven method.

#6 Posted by probablytuna (3525 posts) -

@humanity: If you've played Brothers, you know that controller two different characters with each analog stick is already difficult enough. Imagine how much more difficult it is to take into account two more analog sticks.

I don't think controllers need an overhaul. There's more than enough button configurations for developers to mess around with, even if FPS games are just gonna stick with left trigger aim, right trigger shoot.

#7 Posted by johncallahan (542 posts) -

If it aint broke, don't fix it. I really think that's all there is to it in my mind. I honestly think that the Xbox 360 controller is the best controller that has ever been (argument could be made for the GC Wavebird). PS3 controller was close. If Sony and Microsoft can just fine tune those to true perfection, that's good enough for me. I've gotten used to them, they're great. Don't need or want innovation in my controllers, that belongs in the games.

#8 Posted by Ezakael (910 posts) -

Adding more buttons at this point would just make the controller really cluttered and not at all easy to use in my opinion. I think the small improvements like the touchpad are a step in the right direction because they're adding some extra features without making the controller annoying to use.

#9 Posted by Vextroid (1354 posts) -

No not really. Maybe 6 shoulder buttons? I don't know.

#10 Edited by DharmaBum (1038 posts) -

My biggest concern is that they made the analog sticks smaller for whatever reason. At least that's what I heard from someone who tested them at PAX. I think the 360 controller is damn near perfect; all they had to do was fix the slow-turn issue and d-pad of course. Guess I'll have to get my hands on the new ones to be certain.

#11 Posted by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

Instead of some stupid gimmick motion controls that EVERYONE hates

Did people actually hate the concept of motion controls altogether, or simply that the technology didn't yet deliver on the concept? I'll be one of the few people to say that there's a lot of merit behind motion controls.

#12 Posted by EXTomar (4453 posts) -

I think there is value in adding auxiliary buttons (buttons not allowed to be used in any game) like "Share".

#13 Edited by Clonedzero (4051 posts) -

@clonedzero said:

Instead of some stupid gimmick motion controls that EVERYONE hates

Did people actually hate the concept of motion controls altogether, or simply that the technology didn't yet deliver on the concept? I'll be one of the few people to say that there's a lot of merit behind motion controls.

If they worked and felt natural then sure.

Theres also the fact that motion controls wouldn't work for alot of genres unless you gimmick the shit out of the gameplay.

If im playing a game with any serious narrative story i don't want to be flailing my arms about pretending to swing a sword or yelling "IM THE WITCHER" at my kinect.

#14 Posted by Clonedzero (4051 posts) -

@clonedzero said:

Instead of some stupid gimmick motion controls that EVERYONE hates

Did people actually hate the concept of motion controls altogether, or simply that the technology didn't yet deliver on the concept? I'll be one of the few people to say that there's a lot of merit behind motion controls.

If they worked and felt natural then sure.

Theres also the fact that motion controls wouldn't work for alot of genres unless you gimmick the shit out of the gameplay.

If im playing a game with any serious narrative story i don't want to be flailing my arms about pretending to swing a sword or yelling "IM THE WITCHER" at my kinect.

#15 Posted by McLargepants (356 posts) -

I think, at least on the Sony side, the iterations are small, the touchpad might be used well but it's probably so cheap it doesn't matter. The huge improvement is in ergonomics, and that's what matters to me. So I think the controllers are great, and I'm excited to get my hands on them.

#16 Posted by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

If im playing a game with any serious narrative story i don't want to be flailing my arms about pretending to swing a sword or yelling "IM THE WITCHER" at my kinect.

Way to jump to the extreme on that part, especially since there are some key games that integrate motion controls into their serious narrative story. Fragile Dreams just feels so very wrong and impersonal without motion controls, and I have to imagine the moral dimensions of Pandora's Tower would be lost if you were simply pushing a button to rip out a Master's heart rather than physically ripping it out yourself.

#17 Posted by Humanity (8728 posts) -

I think there is merit in saying "if it ain't broke.." But at the same time we wouldn't have the consoles we have today if everyone was simply content with what we had.

I do think some extra buttons are needed. Recently playing Warframe, a game slated for console release in the future, I can tell you that it's quite a feat to not only fit all the different actions on a standard 360 pad but make them actually work without making a pretzel out if your fingers. Two extra shoulder buttons would really be a welcome edition.

#18 Posted by Clonedzero (4051 posts) -

@clonedzero said:

If im playing a game with any serious narrative story i don't want to be flailing my arms about pretending to swing a sword or yelling "IM THE WITCHER" at my kinect.

Way to jump to the extreme on that part, especially since there are some key games that integrate motion controls into their serious narrative story. Fragile Dreams just feels so very wrong and impersonal without motion controls, and I have to imagine the moral dimensions of Pandora's Tower would be lost if you were simply pushing a button to rip out a Master's heart rather than physically ripping it out yourself.

Well sure, in games designed for it then it works. But in established genres and franchises it wouldn't.

#19 Edited by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

@clonedzero:

But weren't those two games already in established genres? They aren't so radically different that we can't recognize them as belonging to certain genres (adventure and action-adventure, respectively). It's also worth mentioning that Metroid Prime 3 made motion controls work in an established genre and franchise.

#20 Edited by mrfluke (5049 posts) -

if we have a next gen after this, then id imagine you'd get a more radical change in the controllers.

to me what was important was that the ergonomics of those controllers improved, and having played with both those controllers, to me they perfected those designs now. and as people have said, if it aint broke why fix it?

but if we ever do get change, the change would be more for simplicity, the craze right now is gaming to me is more we're trying to be more inclusive more inviting, adding extra complications would just turn away the casual, the opposite of what people want right now. common casual folk already struggle with playing games on current controllers as is. (people were struggling to play knack, blows my mind)

i wouldn't be surprised if down the line though madcatz or some other third party decides to come out with their own controller that has the extra triggers.

#21 Posted by Brodehouse (9521 posts) -

The only thing I think that could improve where modern controller design is at is to make them slightly moddable, or able to have attachments plugged into them. I don't necesssarily want all controllers to receive more buttons, but for games that require more buttons, it would be nice to just have an attachment that fits nicely along with it. Not a monstrosity like the Circle Pad Pro, but something like it.

FF14 has a mode to play with a controller and I'm just very suspicious of it. I suppose I should try it before I talk shit about it.

And if anything, I understand why controllers cost three times what they used to. They are way more comfortable and well built than previous gen controllers.

#22 Posted by Clonedzero (4051 posts) -

@clonedzero:

But weren't those two games already in established genres? They aren't so radically different that we can't recognize them as belonging to certain genres (adventure and action-adventure, respectively). It's also worth mentioning that Metroid Prime 3 made motion controls work in an established genre and franchise.

I'm not familiar with those games. And i have no interest in playing a metriod game with motion controls, that concept is stupid. Yes, motion controls CAN work. But they require the game to completely change all its gameplay to cater towards it. Motion controls don't translate well to alot of genres. For every good motion control game theres dozens of awful ones.

It's just shitty for gameplay, it's awkward, inaccurate, unresponsive. Just awful. Yes specific games it can work well in, but for it to become the standard way of controlling a game like this thread is talking about is insane.

Motion controls won't get out of the gimmicky side area for a long long time. I mean even microsoft has realized how ill-suited the kinect is for being the primary form of control.

#23 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4328 posts) -

Apart from additional shoulder buttons, I don't know what else I would want out of new controllers. The next gen ones look great already and the talks about reduced input lag and smaller dead zones sound promising.

#24 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

YES!!

Fuck that dick who thought we needed more ways to occupy our thumbs.

Isn't a stick and four face buttons enough for a thumb? Now we get a touch screen too? Isn't it awkward enough to try and aim AND shoot a grenade using the SAME THUMB?!!

A new shoulder button, or something, would go a long way to fix that shit.

#26 Posted by seveword (136 posts) -

Beyond ergonomics and tweaking little things, like stick sensitivity and button feedback, I don't know that there is much else to do. Touchpads can add something, I suppose, but the number of people who can barely handle four buttons at once would dissuade Microsoft or Sony from sticking too much onto the controllers. Nintendo marches to the beat of their own drum, as well.

#27 Posted by Humanity (8728 posts) -

YES!!

Fuck that dick who thought we needed more ways to occupy our thumbs.

Isn't a stick and four face buttons enough for a thumb? Now we get a touch screen too? Isn't it awkward enough to try and aim AND shoot a grenade using the SAME THUMB?!!

A new shoulder button, or something, would go a long way to fix that shit.

Well that but not so simple. I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner. I just look at Killzone and think "that looks good, but what is so different about it?" Same thing about Titanfall.

#28 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5138 posts) -

I'm absolutely fine with a slightly upgraded version of both controllers. The only major flaws were the Ps3 joysticks and the 360 dpad. As far as I know they've fixed them up. I'm so used to both controllers already, I'd rather them not tamper with the physical layout too much.

#29 Posted by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

@humanity said:

I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner.

*keeps muttering "motion controls" under breath*

#30 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

@humanity said:
@grissefar said:

YES!!

Fuck that dick who thought we needed more ways to occupy our thumbs.

Isn't a stick and four face buttons enough for a thumb? Now we get a touch screen too? Isn't it awkward enough to try and aim AND shoot a grenade using the SAME THUMB?!!

A new shoulder button, or something, would go a long way to fix that shit.

Well that but not so simple. I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner. I just look at Killzone and think "that looks good, but what is so different about it?" Same thing about Titanfall.

Oh yeah? Better look at Titanfall again. If things go right, it will be to 2014 what Call of Duty 4 was to 2007. So bam there it is.

#31 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Yes. At least two more buttons to use without taking thumbs of a thumbstick. Preferably adding a mousewheel or camera-like zoom lever button to the shoulderside of the gamepad.

Also - a multitouch screen for typing/hotkeys would have been baller. Hell - black and white would be all it takes.

#32 Posted by Flappy (2114 posts) -

I'm absolutely fine with a slightly upgraded version of both controllers. The only major flaws were the Ps3 joysticks and the 360 dpad. As far as I know they've fixed them up. I'm so used to both controllers already, I'd rather them not tamper with the physical layout too much.

Agreed. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't like the sound of adding more buttons to the controllers. At some point, you're just making the N64 controller all over again.

#33 Posted by Cold_Wolven (2206 posts) -
@flappy said:

@themanwithnoplan said:

I'm absolutely fine with a slightly upgraded version of both controllers. The only major flaws were the Ps3 joysticks and the 360 dpad. As far as I know they've fixed them up. I'm so used to both controllers already, I'd rather them not tamper with the physical layout too much.

Agreed. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't like the sound of adding more buttons to the controllers. At some point, you're just making the N64 controller all over again.

For me it's about the ergonomics of the controller so I'm also fine with the amount of buttons we have for both controllers, it's about refinement on the Playstation controller with its analogue sticks and triggers but also the dpad which recent 360 controllers were already improving.

#34 Edited by Verendus (348 posts) -

No, PS4 controller fixed pretty much everything that was a "problem" in DS3. I haven't tried out X1 controller but it doesn't seem as good as X360 controller was, which was near perfection in my opinion. I didn't like what they did with bumpers on X1.

#35 Posted by believer258 (11565 posts) -

@humanity said:

I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner.

*keeps muttering "motion controls" under breath*

See, you said this, and I had to put away my phone and come turn on my laptop so I could get a good and proper "quote" button, so I could tell you that motion controls do not work for everybody. They have, without fail, dragged me kicking and screaming away from the experience. It's not that I can't use them, or that they don't work well enough. It's that they simply take me out of the experience. The Metroid Prime 3 thing of twisting a battery and then pulling it out with the Wii mote just sucked. Yanking shields off with the Grapple Beam also wasn't so fun for me. It just made me frown and sigh and pray that console makers don't suddenly want this as their main form of input. However...

@video_game_king said:

@clonedzero:

But weren't those two games already in established genres? They aren't so radically different that we can't recognize them as belonging to certain genres (adventure and action-adventure, respectively). It's also worth mentioning that Metroid Prime 3 made motion controls work in an established genre and franchise.

I'm not familiar with those games. And i have no interest in playing a metriod game with motion controls, that concept is stupid. Yes, motion controls CAN work. But they require the game to completely change all its gameplay to cater towards it. Motion controls don't translate well to alot of genres. For every good motion control game theres dozens of awful ones.

It's just shitty for gameplay, it's awkward, inaccurate, unresponsive. Just awful. Yes specific games it can work well in, but for it to become the standard way of controlling a game like this thread is talking about is insane.

Motion controls won't get out of the gimmicky side area for a long long time. I mean even microsoft has realized how ill-suited the kinect is for being the primary form of control.


The concept itself was never stupid. It was an experiment, one that ultimately proved itself dissatisfying for most people, but still a decent idea. Metroid Prime 3, for the record, is not a bad game at all, and even without the Wii Motion Plus there are almost no problems with the motions you have to make. The fact that you're making motions is what I don't really like.

@humanity said:
@grissefar said:

YES!!

Fuck that dick who thought we needed more ways to occupy our thumbs.

Isn't a stick and four face buttons enough for a thumb? Now we get a touch screen too? Isn't it awkward enough to try and aim AND shoot a grenade using the SAME THUMB?!!

A new shoulder button, or something, would go a long way to fix that shit.

Well that but not so simple. I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner. I just look at Killzone and think "that looks good, but what is so different about it?" Same thing about Titanfall.

Oh yeah? Better look at Titanfall again. If things go right, it will be to 2014 what Call of Duty 4 was to 2007. So bam there it is.

You're not entirely wrong but you don't have to be an ass about it. Why don't you explain to us what you think Titanfall is going to do for next generation games? You could talk about how they're trying to integrate a story into multiplayer, that is present while playing, or you could talk about the mechanics of mixing mechs and parkour into Call of Duty and how that could change stuff around, etc.

Finally, do I have an opinion on the new controllers? Honestly, I wanted two extra buttons somewhere. I thought that we could have two small buttons to the left and right of the triangle/Y button and that they could be used for something like Quick Saving or a dedicated map button or a journal button or something. Skyrim has a separate button for pausing, waiting, and pulling up your journal, and I just don't see why two of those couldn't have been cut out in favor of a Quick Save and a Map. If two more buttons had been present then this couldn't have been an issue. I didn't get that, but we get refined versions of what's been proven, and that's fine with me.

Online
#36 Posted by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

The Metroid Prime 3 thing of twisting a battery and then pulling it out with the Wii mote just sucked. Yanking shields off with the Grapple Beam also wasn't so fun for me. It just made me frown and sigh and pray that console makers don't suddenly want this as their main form of input. However...

I'm guessing this is the point where we diverge. I'm looking at it from the story potential, and from that perspective, there's a lot to be had. You seem to be looking at it from an entertainment perspective (for lack of a better word), wherein physical limitations get in the way pretty damn quick.

#37 Posted by Clonedzero (4051 posts) -

@believer258 said:

The Metroid Prime 3 thing of twisting a battery and then pulling it out with the Wii mote just sucked. Yanking shields off with the Grapple Beam also wasn't so fun for me. It just made me frown and sigh and pray that console makers don't suddenly want this as their main form of input. However...

I'm guessing this is the point where we diverge. I'm looking at it from the story potential, and from that perspective, there's a lot to be had. You seem to be looking at it from an entertainment perspective (for lack of a better word), wherein physical limitations get in the way pretty damn quick.

Actually i think motion stuff would take me out of the story more than put me more into it. It would feel silly if during this big dramatic moment i have to thrust my arm forward in reality to stab the big bad guy, it could be a really serious sad emotional moment, and the game making me goofily make a thrusting motion with my arm would seem really silly and completely take me out of it.

Maybe motion controls just arent for me, every single time ive used them the entire time i kept thinking "man im just waving my arms around like an idiot".

#38 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

@grissefar said:

@humanity said:
@grissefar said:

YES!!

Fuck that dick who thought we needed more ways to occupy our thumbs.

Isn't a stick and four face buttons enough for a thumb? Now we get a touch screen too? Isn't it awkward enough to try and aim AND shoot a grenade using the SAME THUMB?!!

A new shoulder button, or something, would go a long way to fix that shit.

Well that but not so simple. I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner. I just look at Killzone and think "that looks good, but what is so different about it?" Same thing about Titanfall.

Oh yeah? Better look at Titanfall again. If things go right, it will be to 2014 what Call of Duty 4 was to 2007. So bam there it is.

You're not entirely wrong but you don't have to be an ass about it. Why don't you explain to us what you think Titanfall is going to do for next generation games? You could talk about how they're trying to integrate a story into multiplayer, that is present while playing, or you could talk about the mechanics of mixing mechs and parkour into Call of Duty and how that could change stuff around, etc.

Sure, let me elaborate, man. There is no story. Just cool, seamless shit like ejecting out of a titan, landing on top of another, blowing its shit off, which would otherwise have been a singleplayer scripted event. But hey who gives a dick about such details? All you need to know is:

  1. They focus on gameplay
  2. They are talented as hell
  3. They aren't held back by traditions
  4. They have taken their sweet time.

Now how many games in the past year can you honestly say have completely nailed the pure gameplay aspect? Mastered the flow and pace of battle the way Infinity Ward/Respawn does it? Sad truth is, gameplay is something thrown together in the last few weeks of development on most games, which is why most games play like shit. So come on man, mention some. Batman? Sure, it's better than most. Assassins Creed? lol. Dishonored? Nah. Bioshock? Ha ! Ha ! Battlefield? You're kidding, right? So that's why Titanfall will matter. Because it is not shit.

No problem.

#39 Edited by StarvingGamer (7919 posts) -

No

#41 Posted by Yummylee (21208 posts) -
#42 Posted by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

Actually i think motion stuff would take me out of the story more than put me more into it. It would feel silly if during this big dramatic moment i have to thrust my arm forward in reality to stab the big bad guy, it could be a really serious sad emotional moment, and the game making me goofily make a thrusting motion with my arm would seem really silly and completely take me out of it.

That's why you create an atmosphere that makes you forget you're simply waving your arms around. Hell, it works for other video games. Have you ever stopped to think "Man, all I'm doing is pressing buttons like a dumbass?" Or have you actually believed that, on some level, you were actually performing the actions on screen? Motion controls only make more obvious the problems inherent to writing a story in video games, and part of that may be because we, the players, go out of our way to make them obvious.

Also, you keep putting motion controls down by saying that you're just flailing your arms around. That's not the only option available, you know. Fragile Dreams only uses motion controls for pointing the flashlight, but that little bit is still enough to help you feel like you're actually part of the world. Again, reductively referring to motion controls only as "flailing your arms around" is the equivalent of saying that you're just pressing buttons, and then depicting a gamer furiously mashing away at buttons like an idiot.

#43 Edited by believer258 (11565 posts) -

@grissefar: Dark Souls, Just Cause 2, Sleeping Dogs, Far Cry 3, Max Payne 3, Left 4 Dead, Forza Horizon... You wanted some AAA games that nail mechanics pretty damn well. There is a short list of those that do, and I can go on.

@believer258 said:

The Metroid Prime 3 thing of twisting a battery and then pulling it out with the Wii mote just sucked. Yanking shields off with the Grapple Beam also wasn't so fun for me. It just made me frown and sigh and pray that console makers don't suddenly want this as their main form of input. However...

I'm guessing this is the point where we diverge. I'm looking at it from the story potential, and from that perspective, there's a lot to be had. You seem to be looking at it from an entertainment perspective (for lack of a better word), wherein physical limitations get in the way pretty damn quick.

I didn't make that clear enough. Physical limitations were not the issue in Prime 3; they actually work pretty well. But that doesn't mean that motion controls didn't suck all of the atmosphere and all of the story and any sense of immersion the game might have had away. The very thing you think motion controls improve, story and experience, is the very thing that I think they remove almost completely.

Online
#44 Edited by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

No, I meant physical limitations as in physical limitations of the body (IE, you get tired more easily with motion controls).

I'd also argue that motion controls enhance the story specifically because they're more closely connected to your actions on screen, at least when compared to non-motion controls. I feel like I could elaborate on that more, but for whatever reason, I can't completely grasp these thoughts just yet.

#45 Posted by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

@video_game_king: Extra Credits did a neat thing on why motion controls take one out of an experience much easier than a controller. It's called kinesthetic projection- our ability as humans to view tools as projections of our selves. Its why we naturally fall into saying things like "I am turning left" while driving, or why, in video games, it's easy to "forget" the controller and talk about avatar actions as an I i.e. "I am attacking, I am jumping" rather than "I am pressing a button to cause an avatar to jump".

Motion controls, particularly kinect but all to some degree, don't benefit from kinesthetic projection nearly so easily- it hits a mental block equivalent of the uncanny valley that would probably really only be fully overcome by very good VR.(check out the episode for more info, its called kinect disconnect) So yes, for most people, it DOES take them out of the experience much more easily, and your idea that we're just as likely to find a contoller ridiculous doesn't hold up.

That being said, some small things like pointing a Wiimote to aim works perfectly, but I DON'T think Pandora's Tower is a good example. Perhaps it worked for you, but for me it was just silly- going through the motions (very approximate motions) with no sensory feedback highlighted it's artificiality, not mitigated it.

#46 Edited by Video_Game_King (35842 posts) -

@towersixteen said:

@video_game_king: Extra Credits did a neat thing on why motion controls take one out of an experience much easier than a controller. It's called kinesthetic projection- our ability as humans to view tools as projections of our selves. Its why we naturally fall into saying things like "I am turning left" while driving, or why, in video games, it's easy to "forget" the controller and talk about avatar actions as an I i.e. "I am attacking, I am jumping" rather than "I am pressing a button to cause an avatar to jump".

I have to see this. It sounds like it could be very useful for this blog project I have in mind. (Surprisingly, it has nothing to do with motion controls.)

Aw, fuck. There are SO MANY EPISODES I feel like I have to watch. DAMN YOU, EXTRA CREDITS!

I'd still argue that they work for the game, but not so much from an immersion angle as more from a sense of personal responsibility.

#47 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2535 posts) -

We alwasy see innovation each cycle. The trouble is most of the innovation even when it works (see Jogcon) isn't really needed.

Look at the streering wheel...no not in games... on cars. We still use steering wheels even after over 100 years. Early cars had 'tiller' like steering literally a lever like bar you woudl push or pull to steer, but as soon as the steering wheel became common in cars it stuck. It stuck because it worked, it wasn't even new the wheel for steering boats and other wagons had been around for centuries, it was just car makers used tillers...just because. But, once wheels were used it was obvious that steering wheels worked best. They were made bigger and smaller, more grip or or helpful knows put in spots from time to time, but the steering wheel stays because it is simple and it works.

Joy pads are the same. Keyboards are the same. Guns...bicycles...garbage cans....spoons, forks and knives are all the same. These objects have kept many of the same basic functions and shapes because THEY WORK. The best tool is often not the newest twist or the most complex, it is the one that works best in the most use cases that is best. You could make a 2 lb spoon that scoops precisely two fluid ounces of liquid no matter how you hold it or if you flip it upside down...but who wants to hold a 2 lb spoon.

Innovation for the sake of innovation can be interesting. But as we have seen form various controllers over the past few years joypads work best, so they stay and they stay the standard. (Hell, even computer gamers have silently and quietly adopted the joypad for computer gaming....they don't want to talk about it but they did it because it works.) I'm sure a few tiny things form the next few years will be added to joypads, but we will all be using joypads in 2034 and they will look like joypads. And, it not laziness or stupidity that will make that so it will be because it works.


#48 Edited by Humanity (8728 posts) -

@believer258 said:

@grissefar said:

@humanity said:
@grissefar said:

YES!!

Fuck that dick who thought we needed more ways to occupy our thumbs.

Isn't a stick and four face buttons enough for a thumb? Now we get a touch screen too? Isn't it awkward enough to try and aim AND shoot a grenade using the SAME THUMB?!!

A new shoulder button, or something, would go a long way to fix that shit.

Well that but not so simple. I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner. I just look at Killzone and think "that looks good, but what is so different about it?" Same thing about Titanfall.

Oh yeah? Better look at Titanfall again. If things go right, it will be to 2014 what Call of Duty 4 was to 2007. So bam there it is.

You're not entirely wrong but you don't have to be an ass about it. Why don't you explain to us what you think Titanfall is going to do for next generation games? You could talk about how they're trying to integrate a story into multiplayer, that is present while playing, or you could talk about the mechanics of mixing mechs and parkour into Call of Duty and how that could change stuff around, etc.

Sure, let me elaborate, man. There is no story. Just cool, seamless shit like ejecting out of a titan, landing on top of another, blowing its shit off, which would otherwise have been a singleplayer scripted event. But hey who gives a dick about such details? All you need to know is:

  1. They focus on gameplay
  2. They are talented as hell
  3. They aren't held back by traditions
  4. They have taken their sweet time.

Now how many games in the past year can you honestly say have completely nailed the pure gameplay aspect? Mastered the flow and pace of battle the way Infinity Ward/Respawn does it? Sad truth is, gameplay is something thrown together in the last few weeks of development on most games, which is why most games play like shit. So come on man, mention some. Batman? Sure, it's better than most. Assassins Creed? lol. Dishonored? Nah. Bioshock? Ha ! Ha ! Battlefield? You're kidding, right? So that's why Titanfall will matter. Because it is not shit.

No problem.

Those are all fine and well - don't get me wrong I'm sure Titanfall will be a really fun game. I'm talking about things like picking up items in a game by pressing a button and seeing it hover in front of you; opening a door with a button press and just seeing it pop perfectly open and then close. There is a lack of fidelity and to a smaller degree multitasking when playing current games. You have to point the center of your screen at whatever you want to interact with and whenever you do interact with an item it's often very robotic or abstracted from reality.

The touchpad can certainly help alleviate some of that, but I almost think it would be a lot better if they had put it on the back like the Vita rather than the front. Our two thumbs are responsible for handling roughly 5 elements each while our fingers get a single trigger or button. It would make a lot of sense to either move some of those buttons to the back in the form of scroll wheels or some sort of joysticks.

I simply dream of a game where you're not this completely stiff 3D model bumping into tables and furniture, mashing A on everything to interact with it. But it seems I'm in the minority if not the only person here that would want something more out of the controller so I guess the people have spoken.

#49 Posted by Gaff (1638 posts) -

@humanity said:

I was thinking of something that would help us experience games in a more immersive manner.

*keeps muttering "motion controls" under breath*

*keeps muttering "increasingly meaningless back-of-box quote word which use should just stop" under breath*

On a related note: It's funny how people forget about the PS Move and Kinect 1.0.

#50 Edited by falserelic (5280 posts) -

I'm fine with the current gen controllers. Their comfortable and easy to handle. I don't really think its a need to change the controllers.