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Edited 1 year, 2 months ago

Poll: Does Denis Dyack deserve to be heading up "Shadow of the Eternals"? (229 votes)

Hell Yes 22%
Hell No 78%
#1 Edited by lemonlateralus (102 posts) -

If yes, then explain why?

#2 Edited by lemonlateralus (102 posts) -

If no, give your reasons also.

#3 Posted by BeachThunder (11648 posts) -

What a diverse array of options...

Online
#4 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

Denis Dyack kickstarter!? jeeeebus christ no.. not at all.

#5 Edited by Barrock (3525 posts) -

No. He's a con man.

#6 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3721 posts) -

.... "deserve" is a very odd way to put it. Weird.

Pretty sure his company made the original game. If you don't like it, don't kickstart it and don't play it.

#7 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11423 posts) -

He deserves to head it in the sense that this is the new team he's founded and he can do whatever he wants... which is kind of why Silicon Knights went into the toilet. In the more partial sense of "Should he be the one heading up this spiritual successor to Eternal Darkness?" then the answer is no, because he's proven a general inability to make games in a timely fashion and doesn't deserve the money he's asking for on Kickstarter.

#8 Posted by Cameron (595 posts) -

I can't imagine he could deliver anything close to what fans want with a Kickstarter, so it would probably be better for everyone if he didn't take money for something he can't do. But hell, what do I know, maybe he can totally do it. I'll take my usual approach to crowd funded games and buy it when it comes out if it is any good.

#9 Edited by Daneian (1202 posts) -

Denis Dyack can do whatever he wants up to and including going and fucking himself but I will never give him any money.

#10 Posted by Deathpooky (1367 posts) -

I'm honestly surprised his name is on this thing at all after what he's been through between Too Human, ripping off Activision with X-Men Destiny, and the Epic lawsuit. Add in things like picking fights with fans and the Kotaku story on his abysmal management. He pretty much has no credibility among fans, publishers, or other developers at this point.

I feel bad that anyone gave him money after the way he burned through Activision's money shitting out X-Men Destiny and producing this demo.

#11 Edited by MooseyMcMan (10377 posts) -

The man is very probably insane.

So yes.

#12 Edited by SomeDeliCook (2203 posts) -

What a diverse array of options...

I hate when the poll options are bloated with too many responses, especially when one of them is just 'Durr I don't care have a cookie lolol' or something equivalent.

So it is nice to see just two clear choices for once

#13 Posted by GERALTITUDE (2860 posts) -

Deserve?

I understand people's distaste for Dyack these days but we need to accept that there never would have been an Eternal Darkness without him and there would never be an Eternal Darkness 2 without him.

Here's a tip on how to enjoy life: Separate creators and content in your mind. Or, avoid everything touched by someone you disagree with.

If the game comes out and it's awesome, history is water under the bridge anyways. What's that Nike likes to say: winning solves everything?

#14 Edited by Reisz (1455 posts) -

I don't know the man and I've obviously never worked under him but everything I've read would lead me to believe he is not a suitable studio lead. So based on that information, most definitely not.

#15 Edited by AssInAss (2530 posts) -

I don't care for Denis Dyack, but Too Human was out of their wheelhouse and this seems a more suitable project for them.

Did he do any ethically deplorable stuff? Even so, most of my favorite authors, movie directors, game developers have probably done some shady shit, so I just disassociate the art from the creator at some point unless if they're using the sales of that art to fund their shady shit (Orson Scott Card on homophobic campaigns).

#16 Posted by Hailinel (23689 posts) -

Who the fuck voted Yes?

#17 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Deserve? Like, karmically? Probably not. But he's pitching a new game anyway.

Hopefully he's learned some harsh life lessons and treats his team better this time around.

#18 Posted by xyzygy (9870 posts) -

He did Eternal Darkness, and he's doing a sequel. I don't see why not. Having it crowdfunded is a good thing because he doesn't have publishers breathing down his back wondering what the hell he's doing with their money. Right?

#19 Edited by august (3825 posts) -

.... "deserve" is a very odd way to put it. Weird.

Pretty sure his company made the original game. If you don't like it, don't kickstart it and don't play it.

Even if you kickstart it you probably won't end up playing it.

#20 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

The man is very probably insane.

So yes.

Exactly. I want to see a crazy man make a crazy game.

#21 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3721 posts) -

@august said:

@artisanbreads said:

.... "deserve" is a very odd way to put it. Weird.

Pretty sure his company made the original game. If you don't like it, don't kickstart it and don't play it.

Even if you kickstart it you probably won't end up playing it.

hm?

If you mean it won't get made... well yeah idk. I have never kickstarted any game for a reason.

@xyzygy said:

He did Eternal Darkness, and he's doing a sequel. I don't see why not. Having it crowdfunded is a good thing because he doesn't have publishers breathing down his back wondering what the hell he's doing with their money. Right?

I guess? Limitations on creative projects can often result in them being better off. Plus Dyack has been shady and or ineffecient as far as money goes for a while.

@hailinel said:

Who the fuck voted Yes?

Me. Why shouldn't he be able to? He made the first game.

I love when fans tell the people who made things what they should and shouldn't do.

#22 Edited by Hailinel (23689 posts) -

@artisanbreads: He also didn't make it in a vacuum. The only reason that Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes turned out as well as they did because they had Nintendo (and in the latter's case, Konami) keeping him in check. He has yet to prove his ability to competently manage a game project when not under the direct management supervision of others. If he hadn't had Nintendo's help in making Eternal Darkness, it wouldn't have turned out nearly as well. He's also, according to seemingly the entire former SIlicon Knights staff, an egotistical, self-absorbed bully that mistreats his employees, badly mismanages company finances in the pursuit of ludicrous lawsuits, strings publishing partners along in order to fund side projects (he made Activision into a victim), and now is organizing a particularly shady crowdfunding campaign.

Anyone that gives that man money for this project is crazy.

#23 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3721 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@artisanbreads: He also didn't make it in a vacuum. The only reason that Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes turned out as well as they did because they had Nintendo (and in the latter's case, Konami) keeping him in check. He has yet to prove his ability to competently manage a game project when not under the direct management supervision of others. If he hadn't had Nintendo's help in making Eternal Darkness, it wouldn't have turned out nearly as well. He's also, according to seemingly the entire former SIlicon Knights staff, an egotistical, self-absorbed bully that mistreats his employees, badly mismanages company finances in the pursuit of ludicrous lawsuits, strings publishing partners along in order to fund side projects (he made Activision into a victim), and now is organizing a particularly shady crowdfunding campaign.

Anyone that gives that man money for this project is crazy.

Everything you are saying is speculation about the past games.

I am not backing this project. If it's good, I will play it, and it very well might be. If it's not? Oh well.

Regardless, people acting as if Dyack doesn't have a right to make "sequel" to a game that he headed is ridiculous. It's a strange sort of entitlement that I'm growing very tired of. If you dont' like it fine, but don't tell creative people what they can and can't do.

#24 Posted by wjb (1626 posts) -

Deserve's something something nothing to do with something something...

#25 Posted by Hailinel (23689 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@artisanbreads: He also didn't make it in a vacuum. The only reason that Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes turned out as well as they did because they had Nintendo (and in the latter's case, Konami) keeping him in check. He has yet to prove his ability to competently manage a game project when not under the direct management supervision of others. If he hadn't had Nintendo's help in making Eternal Darkness, it wouldn't have turned out nearly as well. He's also, according to seemingly the entire former SIlicon Knights staff, an egotistical, self-absorbed bully that mistreats his employees, badly mismanages company finances in the pursuit of ludicrous lawsuits, strings publishing partners along in order to fund side projects (he made Activision into a victim), and now is organizing a particularly shady crowdfunding campaign.

Anyone that gives that man money for this project is crazy.

Everything you are saying is speculation about the past games.

I am not backing this project. If it's good, I will play it, and it very well might be. If it's not? Oh well.

Regardless, people acting as if Dyack doesn't have a right to make "sequel" to a game that he headed is ridiculous. It's a strange sort of entitlement that I'm growing very tired of. If you dont' like it fine, but don't tell creative people what they can and can't do.

Technically, I believe Nintendo owns the IP, so he doesn't really have the right to make a sequel. A spiritual follow-up, sure, but not a sequel. And there's been enough anecdotal evidence to show that Dyack is not a competent manager, whether it be stories of ex-employees, the results of his lawsuit against Epic, his arguments with internet commenters on NeoGAF and everything else that's been made public. Not to mention the general quality of Too Human and X-Men.

#26 Posted by BeachThunder (11648 posts) -

@beachthunder said:

What a diverse array of options...

I hate when the poll options are bloated with too many responses, especially when one of them is just 'Durr I don't care have a cookie lolol' or something equivalent.

So it is nice to see just two clear choices for once

I hate that too, but 2 completely polarised responses isn't good either - particularly when I don't have an extreme view on the topic...

Online
#27 Edited by Duecenage (205 posts) -

I'm not giving money to just Dyack, I'm giving money to a group of creators that have decided to band together in a hurting industry and take a chance on something that most others wouldn't. I've read the Shadows of the Eternals site and it's everything I want in a game, presented in an ideal fashion for me. So I'm going to give them my money because I want to encourage this, regardless of the public opinion of the creator. If it goes tits up, then oh well, I finally have a reason to not give him my money any more. In spite of the public, anecdotal evidence, he managed to band together with a group of people, so he must be doing something right.

Not saying this to try and sway anyone who has made up their mind, just stating where I stand on this and why I picked yes.

#28 Posted by kishinfoulux (2250 posts) -

I voted yes because I'll always be on the Dyack War Wagon until I diiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeee.

No but really I've always been a fan. I'd rather he kick start a Too Human sequel though. >_>

#29 Posted by JasonR86 (9587 posts) -

I don't know what 'deserving' means in this example. So sure, yes, why not.

#30 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11423 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@artisanbreads said:

@hailinel said:

@artisanbreads: He also didn't make it in a vacuum. The only reason that Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes turned out as well as they did because they had Nintendo (and in the latter's case, Konami) keeping him in check. He has yet to prove his ability to competently manage a game project when not under the direct management supervision of others. If he hadn't had Nintendo's help in making Eternal Darkness, it wouldn't have turned out nearly as well. He's also, according to seemingly the entire former SIlicon Knights staff, an egotistical, self-absorbed bully that mistreats his employees, badly mismanages company finances in the pursuit of ludicrous lawsuits, strings publishing partners along in order to fund side projects (he made Activision into a victim), and now is organizing a particularly shady crowdfunding campaign.

Anyone that gives that man money for this project is crazy.

Everything you are saying is speculation about the past games.

I am not backing this project. If it's good, I will play it, and it very well might be. If it's not? Oh well.

Regardless, people acting as if Dyack doesn't have a right to make "sequel" to a game that he headed is ridiculous. It's a strange sort of entitlement that I'm growing very tired of. If you dont' like it fine, but don't tell creative people what they can and can't do.

Technically, I believe Nintendo owns the IP, so he doesn't really have the right to make a sequel. A spiritual follow-up, sure, but not a sequel. And there's been enough anecdotal evidence to show that Dyack is not a competent manager, whether it be stories of ex-employees, the results of his lawsuit against Epic, his arguments with internet commenters on NeoGAF and everything else that's been made public. Not to mention the general quality of Too Human and X-Men.

For a great example of how utterly bananas crazy Dyack is, try scrounging up that old episode of 1UP yours where, over the course of an hour or so, he talks about how his comments on NeoGAF were part of a grand social experiment, and then goes on to talk about how technological progress is evil or something. It's... basically the closest thing that podcast had to a Leigh Alexander moment.

#31 Edited by Animasta (14637 posts) -

I'm not giving money to just Dyack, I'm giving money to a group of creators that have decided to band together in a hurting industry and take a chance on something that most others wouldn't. I've read the Shadows of the Eternals site and it's everything I want in a game, presented in an ideal fashion for me. So I'm going to give them my money because I want to encourage this, regardless of the public opinion of the creator. If it goes tits up, then oh well, I finally have a reason to not give him my money any more. In spite of the public, anecdotal evidence, he managed to band together with a group of people, so he must be doing something right.

Not saying this to try and sway anyone who has made up their mind, just stating where I stand on this and why I picked yes.

I am trying to be as respectful as possible, but you are crazy dawg.

they literally don't have to give you shit now that you've donated. That was actually in their fuckin legalese or whatever, that they don't actually have to give out the rewards, nor do they have to make the game. Even if they make the game, they don't actually have to give you it.

and taking a chance on something others wouldn't is all well and good, but there's ways of doing that that don't involve supporting something as scummy as this.

#32 Posted by Duecenage (205 posts) -

@animasta said:

@duecenage said:

I'm not giving money to just Dyack, I'm giving money to a group of creators that have decided to band together in a hurting industry and take a chance on something that most others wouldn't. I've read the Shadows of the Eternals site and it's everything I want in a game, presented in an ideal fashion for me. So I'm going to give them my money because I want to encourage this, regardless of the public opinion of the creator. If it goes tits up, then oh well, I finally have a reason to not give him my money any more. In spite of the public, anecdotal evidence, he managed to band together with a group of people, so he must be doing something right.

Not saying this to try and sway anyone who has made up their mind, just stating where I stand on this and why I picked yes.

I am trying to be as respectful as possible, but you are crazy dawg.

they literally don't have to give you shit now that you've donated. That was actually in their fuckin legalese or whatever, that they don't actually have to give out the rewards, nor do they have to make the game. Even if they make the game, they don't actually have to give you it.

and taking a chance on something others wouldn't is all well and good, but there's ways of doing that that don't involve supporting something as scummy as this.

I read through all the material, watched the pitch video and trailer. They must've been updating the site as the day went on because I saw nothing that I considered to be scummy on that website, and some concerns that I've seen in these posts seem to be addressed in FAQs and on the forums. As for the legalese, that is a part of every Kickstarter that's ever been successfully funded, it's just a donation and you're putting you money in the trust of a creator, so that's par for the course. They'd only hurt their entire professional career by fucking over fans. As an artist in the entertainment industry, I know how important this is to longevity in a career. There is a lot of kneejerk hatred at this because Denis Dyack is involved, but my impression is that his roll at this new company is a step down from Silicon Knights. He has bosses/partners to answer to now, they're the ones dealing with the money and handing it to him and the rest of the creative team to make this game. The only scummy thing is a single man's past, which isn't all the great, sure, but I see that as water under the bridge and I'm willing to give him another chance.

#33 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4518 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@artisanbreads: He also didn't make it in a vacuum. The only reason that Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes turned out as well as they did because they had Nintendo (and in the latter's case, Konami) keeping him in check. He has yet to prove his ability to competently manage a game project when not under the direct management supervision of others. If he hadn't had Nintendo's help in making Eternal Darkness, it wouldn't have turned out nearly as well. He's also, according to seemingly the entire former SIlicon Knights staff, an egotistical, self-absorbed bully that mistreats his employees, badly mismanages company finances in the pursuit of ludicrous lawsuits, strings publishing partners along in order to fund side projects (he made Activision into a victim), and now is organizing a particularly shady crowdfunding campaign.

Anyone that gives that man money for this project is crazy.

uh...

no?

#34 Posted by Snail (8574 posts) -

@hailinel said:

@artisanbreads: He also didn't make it in a vacuum. The only reason that Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes turned out as well as they did because they had Nintendo (and in the latter's case, Konami) keeping him in check. He has yet to prove his ability to competently manage a game project when not under the direct management supervision of others. If he hadn't had Nintendo's help in making Eternal Darkness, it wouldn't have turned out nearly as well. He's also, according to seemingly the entire former SIlicon Knights staff, an egotistical, self-absorbed bully that mistreats his employees, badly mismanages company finances in the pursuit of ludicrous lawsuits, strings publishing partners along in order to fund side projects (he made Activision into a victim), and now is organizing a particularly shady crowdfunding campaign.

Anyone that gives that man money for this project is crazy.

Everything you are saying is speculation about the past games.

I am not backing this project. If it's good, I will play it, and it very well might be. If it's not? Oh well.

Regardless, people acting as if Dyack doesn't have a right to make "sequel" to a game that he headed is ridiculous. It's a strange sort of entitlement that I'm growing very tired of. If you dont' like it fine, but don't tell creative people what they can and can't do.

It's hardly speculation.

It's hardly 100% factual as well I suppose. They're allegations. Convincing ones, but take them for what they are I guess.

#35 Posted by Akeldama (4236 posts) -

@xyzygy said:

He did Eternal Darkness, and he's doing a sequel. I don't see why not. Having it crowdfunded is a good thing because he doesn't have publishers breathing down his back wondering what the hell he's doing with their money. Right?

Now he has fans breathing down his neck wondering where the fuck their money went. Fans are much more volatile when angry.

#36 Posted by lemonlateralus (102 posts) -

Hell hath no fury like fans scorn

#37 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5797 posts) -

Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it

#38 Edited by dekkadekkadekka (725 posts) -

Is it okay to say that I didn't particularly like Eternal Darkness? Is that a thing I'm allowed to say? The insanity effects were cool but the rest of the game was awful.

I thought The Twin Snakes was neat.

#39 Edited by jerseyscum (861 posts) -

Crowd funding this assclown is the equivalent of giving a crackhead five bucks for "train fare". I was really a major supporter of Kickstarter, but it's looking more and more like a magnet for old designers who can't hack it anymore and outright scam artists.

If this is released, watch the finished product be utter shit and half of the Kickstarter money siphoned off to pay legal fees. Or to keep Denis Dyack's house from being seized by creditors.

#40 Edited by Plasticstars (171 posts) -

No. Denis Dyack is fucking crazy.

#41 Posted by RollingZeppelin (1908 posts) -

Hell maybe?

#42 Posted by jerseyscum (861 posts) -

I have to correct myself. This bullshit isn't even on Kickstarter, it's on the website for the game itself. When you can't even shill your garbage on Kickstarter speaks volumes. That trailer that was released? I wouldn't be shocked at all if it's completely fabricated or touched up footage created during X-Men Destiny's development.

Publishers would KILL to get their hands on a new Eternal Darkness game, but Silicon Knight's reputation is absolute poison. So panhandling on the internet is the next logical step. You want a new Eternal Darkness game? Wait a while until Dyack is forced to sell the IP to keep his car from being repossessed.

#43 Edited by villainy (533 posts) -

I thought this was already handled quite succinctly in Geraltitude's blog:

@jasonr86 said:
@minipato said:

@jasonr86 said:

@minipato:

I'm speaking to the nature of him being a creator and creating a product that I as a consumer enjoy. Dyack hasn't done anything that bugs me to such a great degree.

People are reluctant to donate, not because they feel that he doesn't deserve the money, but because they feel he can't be trusted with it. He hasn't done anything to offend people morally (for the sake of argument let's say this is the case), but he has certainly shown people good reason to mistrust him. As a human being, he's not a bad guy. As a business man? Pretty bad. And he's asking us to go into business with him.

Well, that's how my brain works dude. Take it or leave it. That's where I am.

Leaving some stuff out because it's not worth bringing up the high profile people/events mentioned. Authors feel free to burn me if you feel misrepresented.

Basically Dyack has already shown himself willing to make questionable decisions on how to treat other peoples' money and IP. Based on that I would never fund him or his companies unless I was 100% sure I'd get a quality product in return.

Other people have different expectations. I don't think any better or worse it's just (wait for it...) opinions. That's fine. Maybe Precursor Games will meet their goals, put out an awesome game, and Dyack will rebuild his credibility with me. That'd be great and maybe I would re-evaluate my position. As it stands they'll have none of my money.

Also holy crap this editor is a PITA to work with.

#44 Edited by lemonlateralus (102 posts) -

Im glad the bombcrew are hesitant about the idea too.

#45 Posted by ajamafalous (11813 posts) -

If you had worded the poll better I would've voted differently.

Does he deserve to make another game? Sure, he deserves to do whatever the hell he wants.
Should he make another game? Probably not, considering his track record.

#46 Edited by Danteveli (1157 posts) -

I wanted to support the game but his persona plus the way they are collecting money worries me too much to trust them.

#47 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

No need to worry guys. Looks liek they wont be able to make it anyway. It looks really bad right now.

#48 Edited by AssInAss (2530 posts) -

You guys might want to read this:

Crowdfunding Update #1

I have to correct myself. This bullshit isn't even on Kickstarter, it's on the website for the game itself. When you can't even shill your garbage on Kickstarter speaks volumes.

Only UK and US for Kickstarter. Being on Kickstarter doesn't automatically mean quality. If you read the update I linked to, they want to get onto Kickstarter. Ghost of a Tale's French developer couldn't get onto Kickstarter. Some are able to with US bank accounts or some other complicated business.

#49 Posted by Animasta (14637 posts) -

@assinass: the fact that they couldn't do it on kickstarter doesn't mean they couldn't do it on Indiegogo.

#50 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

Sure? It's a free market, he can do what he wants. He's not evil, and it's not like he's incapable of wising up. And he's been an integral part of quality releases in the past.

@assinass said:

You guys might want to read this:

Crowdfunding Update #1

@jerseyscum said:

I have to correct myself. This bullshit isn't even on Kickstarter, it's on the website for the game itself. When you can't even shill your garbage on Kickstarter speaks volumes.

Only UK and US for Kickstarter. Being on Kickstarter doesn't automatically mean quality. If you read the update I linked to, they want to get onto Kickstarter. Ghost of a Tale's French developer couldn't get onto Kickstarter. Some are able to with US bank accounts or some other complicated business.

Arguably the most promising crowdsourced game out there right now (Star Citizen) has raised the overwhelming majority of it's funding away from Kickstarter, as I recall. The idea that being on Kickstarter equates to being a quality product is silly.