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Posted by Little_Socrates (5649 posts) 7 months, 20 days ago

Does SaltyBet count as a "game?" (145 votes)

Yes 44%
No 56%

Hey duders,

I've spent a lot of time thinking about SaltyBet, and I'm curious to see if y'all would call SaltyBet a "game" or not. The gameplay, of course, would be the act of betting on fights and guessing whether or not you think your fighter will win. The SaltyBet game would obviously not just be DreamCast Casino; that game is Mugen. Rather, I'm talking about the actual betting website. And, unlike most other gambling games, there's even the progression/leveling mechanic that determines your minimum balance based on your betting accuracy.

So? Is SaltyBet a game?

#1 Posted by Animasta (14455 posts) -

it's the game of kings

it's better than diamond rings

#2 Edited by Animasta (14455 posts) -

it's the game of kings

it's better than diamond rings

#3 Posted by Dacnomaniac (426 posts) -

Is betting on sports a game? No? Then I don't think this is. Seeing as it's the same thing but with video games and fake money.... I wouldn't really class that as a game.

#4 Posted by TyCobb (1924 posts) -

There's a goal, you can win or lose, it can be fun. Yes it's a game.

Game: activity engaged in for diversion or amusement.

#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (34571 posts) -

@animasta said:

it's the game of kings

I DENY SAID STATEMENT.

it's better than diamond rings

I approve of this one, though.

Online
#6 Posted by seveword (118 posts) -

It depends entirely upon your definition of the word "game." If your requirements are similar to something you'd find in Super Mario Bros. or Halo, then yeah, it isn't a game. You have little to no control over anything that happens on the actual website, and unless you've made millions, you don't have a significant enough pile of cash to push things one way or the other.

If you consider Merriam-Webster's definition, "activity engaged in for diversion or amusement," then it's totally a game. A staring contest is as much a game as is the stock market, for some people.

Also I don't think you level up based on win percentage, I think it's totally based on number of bets, win or lose. I know I've been in the mines for a long while, getting a couple bucks more every so often.

#7 Posted by DonutFever (3513 posts) -

I had the same thought 5 minutes into using it. It scratches the same itch, so... sorta?

My vote is on yes though.

#8 Posted by Itwongo (782 posts) -

I vote yes. It's the most dangerous game.

#9 Edited by Dalai (6870 posts) -

It's a game, just not that kind of game. I have been neglecting actual games because of Salty Bet, though. It just fuels my love of gambling without the financial ruin.

#10 Posted by Aetheldod (3327 posts) -

No

#11 Posted by jorbear (2517 posts) -

Better question: is Salty Bets art?

#12 Posted by Kevin_Cogneto (924 posts) -

If you have no way to affect the outcome, it's not a game. Poker is a game, going to the track is not.

#13 Edited by OneKillWonder_ (1592 posts) -

I guess it technically would be. You're engaging, albeit very loosely, in a recreational activity competing against others in which you desire a favorable outcome. I never really thought of something as simple as betting on races or fights to be a 'game', but in the loosest sense of the term, it is.

#14 Posted by LackingSaint (1689 posts) -

If you have no way to affect the outcome, it's not a game. Poker is a game, going to the track is not.

But surely by those definitions, SaltyBet is a game? Action: Make a bet. Outcome: Win or Lose money based on bet made.

I'd say SaltyBet is as much a game as Rock, Paper Scissors or something like that. It's not a video-game, obviously, but yeah it's a game in the traditional sense of the word.

#15 Posted by EXTomar (4119 posts) -

It sure does.

Online
#16 Posted by Gruebacca (403 posts) -

I consider betting to be a game. SaltyBet is definitely not a video game, as there's no form of interaction that directly affects the action, but there's enough of a structure to SaltyBet that makes it a regular game.

#17 Posted by FLStyle (4395 posts) -

If we're talking the GB wiki, Salty Bet would go under concepts rather than games.

#18 Posted by JOURN3Y (230 posts) -

Its not much of video game game but it sure is a casino type game.

#19 Edited by Ryuku_Ryosake (193 posts) -

@jorbear said:

Better question: is Salty Bets art?

I can totally see some sort of art exhibit where they run salty bet on a big touch screen and allow visitors to cast bets.

I can see the conversation now. What does it day about humanity that we make rudimentary A.I. fight each other. What of the Salty Buck? What makes it less real then our real money also mostly exists only as numbers on a server somewhere? What does it say about us they were are willing to risk it as if there is a never ending supply. What does all the blatant copy right infringement say about culture in the internet age? What does Brazillian Goku vs Japanese Captain America say about the effects of Globalization?

So is Salty Bet a game? That depends on if you consider life a game.

#20 Posted by Ravenlight (8033 posts) -

It's not a video game, but it's definitely a game.

#21 Edited by BaconGames (3122 posts) -

@ravenlight said:

It's not a video game, but it's definitely a game.

I agree with this.

#22 Posted by StarvingGamer (7546 posts) -

It's no less a game than Blackjack

#23 Edited by ThePhantomnaut (6067 posts) -

It's a service that can be used in multiple departments, not just MUGEN.

#24 Posted by Vuud (1422 posts) -

@jorbear said:

Better question: is Salty Bets art?

Art in its highest, most pure form.

#25 Posted by PurpleMoustache (95 posts) -

Should Salty Bets talk?

#26 Posted by Gamer_152 (13968 posts) -

In basically every discussion about whether something is really game, it always ends up boiling down to the fact that there is no one definition of a game, so under some definitions SaltyBet would be a game, and under others it wouldn't, but I think the majority would consider it a game. I'd call it a game myself because it has player options, tactics, resources, and an end goal.

Moderator
#27 Edited by Brackynews (3959 posts) -

@bacongames said:

@ravenlight said:

It's not a video game, but it's definitely a game.

I agree with this.

Yet its existence depends entirely on video of a video game. Unless people are doing fantasy Mugen drafts on paper when the stream is down. What it is not, is interactive. It's sitting in a bar, cheering for your team and buying rounds.

Anyway, the gambling industry has always called itself the gaming industry, so it is arguably we who are appropriating these terms incorrectly. Video games might be bigger business than hollywood some years, but they will never be bigger than casinos. Case in point, more pachinko parlours than arcades in Japan. More slot machines than pinball tables at Las Vegas airport. If you've never been into a real casino, the production value for video gambling is massive. The kinds of machines you see in a local bar are basically 1982 Atari by comparison.

I have no doubt @patrickklepek could find some people who bring home their salary designing chance games, while pining away (or have given up) on independent projects.

#28 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

No, but is it gambling?

#29 Posted by Ravenlight (8033 posts) -

Yet its existence depends entirely on video of a video game. Unless people are doing fantasy Mugen drafts on paper when the stream is down. What it is not, is interactive. It's sitting in a bar, cheering for your team and buying rounds.

I think you'e focusing on the wrong part. The AI vs AI fights are not a game. Everything except the actual fight is the game.

I'd like to offer a metaphor of my own: It's being part of the crowd that destroys the town after the big game. Forever.

#30 Edited by Ravelle (1038 posts) -

@ravenlight said:

It's not a video game, but it's definitely a game.

I agree with this.

It's a video game but you watch it instead of play it.

#31 Posted by Vuud (1422 posts) -

So is video poker a video game?

#32 Posted by bigjeffrey (4151 posts) -

It's already GOTY, stop arguing.

#33 Posted by mwng (891 posts) -

$50 on the idea that it's a game!

Don't fail me now poll!

#34 Edited by Jimbo (9708 posts) -

It's a 'game' but not in the sense we usually mean. It belongs in the same category as fantasy football etc.

#35 Edited by Brackynews (3959 posts) -

@ravenlight: Hm. I don't think I am, actually. Though maybe it sounds that way. I do see the meta-game level of "watching over someone's shoulder". My point is video in the strictest sense is an integral part of playing, and the term Video Game is used more strictly than it should be. Replace Mugen with an outcome-unknown sports match and it's still Salty Bet. Replace it with a table of stats data you need to check every week and it's not Salty Bet. Observing the outcome in real time is inherently part of the experience, as is the chat, and both will influence the next decision a player makes.

There are video games with a similar small degree of interaction (observation and response), that use decision-making within a timed period to observe the outcome. Recorded FMV games are a basic case: "I bet that "B" is the right decision. If I'm right I advance, if I'm wrong I have to start over." Games like Man Enough are barely interactive because you don't influence the outcome, you're gauging which option will have the outcome you want. Your knowledge of the options affects your success. If I don't understand the humour or the stereotypes I won't pick the best options. If I don't understand the athlete or the fighting character's abilities, I won't pick the likely winner.

I appreciate your metaphor describing the Salty Hooligan. :)

#36 Edited by Brackynews (3959 posts) -

@ravenlight: Hm. I don't think I am, actually. Though maybe it sounds that way. I do see the meta-game level of "watching over someone's shoulder". My point is video in the strictest sense is an integral part of playing, and the term Video Game is used more strictly than it should be. Replace Mugen with an outcome-unknown sports match and it's still Salty Bet. Replace it with a table of stats data you need to check every week and it's not Salty Bet. Observing the outcome in real time is inherently part of the experience, as is the chat, and both will influence the next decision a player makes.

There are video games with a similar small degree of interaction (observation and response), that use decision-making within a timed period to observe the outcome. Recorded FMV games are a basic case: "I bet that "B" is the right decision. If I'm right I advance, if I'm wrong I have to start over." Games like Man Enough are barely interactive because you don't influence the outcome, you're gauging which option will have the outcome you want. Your knowledge of the options affects your success. If I don't understand the humour or the stereotypes I won't pick the best options. If I don't understand the athlete or the fighting character's abilities, I won't pick the likely winner.

I appreciate your metaphor describing the Salty Hooligan. :)

#37 Posted by McLargepants (332 posts) -

No, I don't think it's a game. Just like going to the race track and betting on races there isn't a game.

#38 Edited by EXTomar (4119 posts) -

Hmm, you will note that "racing on a track" is in itself a game.

Online
#40 Edited by Rincewind (236 posts) -

Gambling isn't a game.

#42 Posted by nintendoeats (5975 posts) -

I just want to chime in and say that by the technical definition of a game, SaltyBet is one.

There is an objective (get more money)

There are possible outcomes which the player does and does not desire(you do get more money, you lose money)

There are strategies that you can enact which increase the likelihood of winning or losing (learning what the characters do, how their AI is written, how they match up)

In general, these are the major agreed upon components of "being a game" in academia.

And now you know.

#43 Posted by ShaggE (5970 posts) -

Should Salty Bets talk?

If the chat is any indication, no way. :P

#44 Posted by DeeGee (2096 posts) -

@nintendoeats: Wow, those are terrible. It means literally everything can be a game. I have the objective to catch the bus to university, with the outcome that it comes on time and the outcome that I miss the bus that I do not desire and my strategy to catch the bus is to get there 10 minutes early, or look up the bus timetable online so I know exactly when it will be there.

Catching the bus - five stars, would play again. Bus pass DLC incoming.

#45 Edited by AlexanderSheen (4655 posts) -
#46 Posted by mbr2 (548 posts) -

More importantly, is it art?

Gambling isn't a game.

Doom isn't a game.

#47 Edited by alwaysbebombing (1278 posts) -

It's not a game. IT'S A FUCKING WAY OF LIFE.

(and a game)

#48 Edited by Turambar (6481 posts) -

Is betting on sports a game? No?

In fact yes, it is. The consequences can be far more dire due to real money being involved, but gambling as a whole are games of chance.

#49 Edited by Turambar (6481 posts) -

@deegee said:

@nintendoeats: Wow, those are terrible. It means literally everything can be a game. I have the objective to catch the bus to university, with the outcome that it comes on time and the outcome that I miss the bus that I do not desire and my strategy to catch the bus is to get there 10 minutes early, or look up the bus timetable online so I know exactly when it will be there.

Catching the bus - five stars, would play again. Bus pass DLC incoming.

Yes, literally everything can be. Remember when you were little, and to motivate you to do one thing or another, your mom tells you to "make a game out of it"? That phrase doesn't exist without reason. If I want to make a game out of whether I can catch the bus or not, then it's a game for me. Intention is very much a part of it.

#50 Posted by OurSin_360 (755 posts) -

Gambling is a game, a "Game of chance".