Eidos Influence on Square Enix - Eidos Final Fantasy?

So, by now, everyone pretty much agrees that getting acquired by Square Enix was the best thing that could have happened to Eidos, cos it gave 'hem the funding they needed to trully shine once again, Deus Ex, the new Tomb Raider and the new Hitman are the prime examples of that.

But today i saw something that made me think that, Eidos might be more involved in Square Enix than we thought.

Just take a look at this:

Agni's Philosophy -- FINAL FANTASY REALTIME TECH DEMO

That video was amazing, not only because it's a tech demo of their next gen engine, but because it totally lookslike something new and fresh, the kind of thing we used to expect from a new Final Fantasy, and the kind of thing the Final Fantasy series needs to get back to the greatness of the past.

But, it doesn't look like something that came out of the ppl who've been making the past few Final Fantasy games.

It looks like something Eidos would do if they got a hold of that series.

At least that's my opinion, but anyway, i love it.

I want that game.

So, do you think Eidos might be involved in a new Final Fantasy game?

After all, Square Enix had that Western studio that closed down, doing a Final Fantasy game, so it's a real possibility.

I'd be interested to see what Eidos would do with Final Fantasy if they ever got a crack at it. I never really cared for Final Fantasy though.

Eidos only exists as a marketing brand now . The company itself was merged into Square-Enix Ltd.

I think this was more a case of the Japanese developers taking a long, hard look at what Final Fantasy has become over the years and deciding to take some risks. Two Crystal Dynamics concept artists are credited at the end of the video, nothing more.

No. This is just an easy way to gauge public feedback on whether people want a Final Fantasy like this or not, it doesn't actually mean anything.

And I do not want to see the western Eidos side of Square Enix take on Final Fantasy, Japan is having enough trouble as it is trying to continue to get their culture to the masses and keep a traditional Japanese tone and pacing - taking away one of the only mainstream series which is keeping to that would be a bad move and both Sony and Nintendo would look down on them for it. It would be a bad move relations-wise even if the game came out well and sold great.

@Dixavd said:

No. This is just an easy way to gauge public feedback on whether people want a Final Fantasy like this or not, it doesn't actually mean anything.

And I do not want to see the western Eidos side of Square Enix take on Final Fantasy, Japan is having enough trouble as it is trying to continue to get their culture to the masses and keep a traditional Japanese tone and pacing - taking away one of the only mainstream series which is keeping to that would be a bad move and both Sony and Nintendo would look down on them for it. It would be a bad move relations-wise even if the game came out well and sold great.

Not if it was released on the PS3/4 and WiiU and it sold gangbusters, they wouldn't. I don't see how such a game selling well would mean any bad things relations-wise.

@RobertOrri said:

Eidos only exists as a marketing brand now . The company itself was merged into Square-Enix Ltd.

I think this was more a case of the Japanese developers taking a long, hard look at what Final Fantasy has become over the years and deciding to take some risks. Two Crystal Dynamics concept artists are credited at the end of the video, nothing more.

Yeah. This game will be developed by a team of normal Final Fantasy staffers, if it's developed, no doubt. But while there may be a bit more western influence than normal, I'd stop short at the idea that the next Final Fantasy game will shed most of the roots of its Japanese influence.

No, not really. I don't like Final Fantasy much but:

@Dixavd said:

No. This is just an easy way to gauge public feedback on whether people want a Final Fantasy like this or not, it doesn't actually mean anything.

And I do not want to see the western Eidos side of Square Enix take on Final Fantasy, Japan is having enough trouble as it is trying to continue to get their culture to the masses and keep a traditional Japanese tone and pacing - taking away one of the only mainstream series which is keeping to that would be a bad move and both Sony and Nintendo would look down on them for it. It would be a bad move relations-wise even if the game came out well and sold great.

That. There's still a fair number of people in the West that like Japanese style games, and Final Fantasy is one of the few things still anchoring that here. Let's not lose that influence.

And if people will recall their classic Final Fantasy, VI starts out in an uber-industrial looking area and so does VII. That Final Fantasy might start in a grey-brown depressing-looking area is not something that's entirely without precedent.

@Dixavd said:

And I do not want to see the western Eidos side of Square Enix take on Final Fantasy, Japan is having enough trouble as it is trying to continue to get their culture to the masses and keep a traditional Japanese tone and pacing - taking away one of the only mainstream series which is keeping to that would be a bad move and both Sony and Nintendo would look down on them for it. It would be a bad move relations-wise even if the game came out well and sold great.

In the midst of gamers making demands about what they want, I do have a certain respect for studios that make the game they want to make. But if they're going to make a game that appeals to a niche audience, but neither they nor fans can get angry/upset/disappointed when it's just the niche audience that buys or even cares about it. You can't target such a specific subset of people and expect whatever you're selling to be loved by all.

If you want to be successful in an international market, you have take the international audiences into mind.

@Beforet: My point was that the sales didn't matter - whether it sold well or badly simply taking away the Japanese influence is a bad move. Microsoft isn't going to be swung so easily towards the series so aiming for them is a lost cause. Sony looks to them for that series as they know one of the core audience who bought into the PS3 at launch did it for the Final Fantasy franchise (along with other JRPG's which were suppsoedly meant to be Playstation exclusives) and then they lost exclusivity half way through with 13 coming out on the 360 so Sony would be annoyed that Square Enix took out a franchise which fills a genre that right now they are getting a limited number of (especially with the Wii getting so much traction on the genre). Then Nintendo and Japanese consumers would be annoyed to find sucha tradition lost.

They would be wiser to create another IP if they want to tae a western route - this would allow them to keep Final Fantasy the way it is and not tarnish its brand into a style they never meant it to be, while at the same time being able to gain more of the western audience as quite a lot of the public is bitter towards the series that no-matter-what they won't turn to a Final Fantasy title however they change it. And a new IP would gain so much traction - imagine the difference between Watchdogs reveal and if they announced it was the next Splinter Cell game - it would immediately be flooded with opinions biased towards that franchise and quite a lot of people will publically argue that it must be horrible because it happens to have a name they dislike.

While I am not saying an Eidos JRPG is a bad idea - simply giving them the Final Fantasy brand is a horrible idea.

@Dixavd: I don't think Sony and Nintendo give a toss as long as it sells lots. Lets face it FF has been selling less and less they need to make some risky changes. I'd be fine with a western dev taking it on. I'm also fine with continuing to ignore it however.

Are you talking about Final Fantasy XXVII? I think you're talking about Final Fantasy XXVII.

@J12088: ...but it wouldn't sell better. Maing it a new IP is much better idea and would sell better than other games. Why take the risk on a brand which while it does sell less, it is still massively profitable and one of the most consistent franchises in gaming (especially for Square Enix); when the result is much more limited by the title than simply removing any links to the series would gain? It also makes it problematic to explain to audiences (most of which don't care about video game news to listen to the changes) who would decide whether they will buy it or not purely on the title.

You lose the sales of the consistent Final Fantasy fans when they realise it is a very different title and made by a different team and you lose the sales of people who previously didn't/stopped buying final fantasy titles as they wouldn't give them any attention to explain the difference of it.

And you think the console creators wouldn't be annoyed by SE going out of their way to weaken sales, because they are almost guarenteed to make less money.

Eidos was acquired back in April 2009. If there were any Eidos influence on SE in terms of an actual gaming production, it would have happened already. Much like the FFVII tech demo that got fanboys to wet their pants, that's all this is, just a tech demo. Eidos continues to do their own thing, their games are just published under SE.

Nothing to see here, move along.

If I've learned anything from video games, it's that brown people who don't speak english are evil. I'm glad to see SE is spreading the message.

@Dixavd said:

No. This is just an easy way to gauge public feedback on whether people want a Final Fantasy like this or not, it doesn't actually mean anything.

And I do not want to see the western Eidos side of Square Enix take on Final Fantasy, Japan is having enough trouble as it is trying to continue to get their culture to the masses and keep a traditional Japanese tone and pacing - taking away one of the only mainstream series which is keeping to that would be a bad move and both Sony and Nintendo would look down on them for it. It would be a bad move relations-wise even if the game came out well and sold great.

SE, Sony and Nintendo are businesses. When choosing between "getting their culture to the masses" and making millions of dollars, the latter will always win out. Also Final Fantasy has been awful for more than a decade now, and SE shows no signs of changing this trend. Bringing another developer in could help to remedy this.

I would completely dig a first person final fantasy with combat like Zeno Clash mixed with Deus Ex.

@SethPhotopoulos said:

I'd be interested to see what Eidos would do with Final Fantasy if they ever got a crack at it. I never really cared for Final Fantasy though.

Yeah, it would definitely be interesting to see what they could do with it.

Lot of talented ppl in all thoe Eidos studios.

I don't know if Eidos had an influence on this Tech Demo, but this trailer got me excited for Final Fantasy again, so this is definitely the way to go, in my opinion.

I couldn't give less of a shit what the Japanese arm of Square Enix does. I'm glad that they saved Eidos and are publishing some of the games I most look forward to. If that company was smart, they'd hand Final Fantasy over to a fresh team with serious ambition and just fire Nomura or put him in a corner somewhere he can't break anything again. the Final Fantasy brand has been in the shitter since X. That's not a qualitative statement on the games, that's public opinion. XII, XIII, XIII-2, XIV, all of these games have been derided and publicly mocked for gameplay, presentation, story, the list of reasons is probably as long as my arm - and I'm one gangly motherfucker.

That said, If they want to claw some respect and prestige back to the brand, they're going to need to give it to people who give a shit, and aren't named Nomura. His name has practically become poison to most gamers - synonymous with a fuck-ton of leather, belt buckles and that androgynous physical aesthetic most people just do not like. Final Fantasy needs a serious overhaul, and I hope that this tech demo, at least, is one step toward that process. I'd like to see Square Enix make a Final Fantasy game I can enjoy. I dug the hell out of FF3.

One last point for people who no doubt can't wait to tell me how wrong I am - when Lost Odyssey is the one game this gen that felt most like a real Final Fantasy game, there is something seriously amiss over at Square Enix.

@Oldirtybearon said:

One last point for people who no doubt can't wait to tell me how wrong I am - when Lost Odyssey is the one game this gen that felt most like a real Final Fantasy game, there is something seriously amiss over at Square Enix.

FFX was OK (X-2 had far worse presentation with superior gameplay), but many would argue FF has been garbage since VIII. Lost Odessey and everything else Mistwalker ever did has been complete shit, barely worth the plastic those games were printed on.

@QuistisTrepe said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

One last point for people who no doubt can't wait to tell me how wrong I am - when Lost Odyssey is the one game this gen that felt most like a real Final Fantasy game, there is something seriously amiss over at Square Enix.

FFX was OK (X-2 had far worse presentation with superior gameplay), but many would argue FF has been garbage since VIII. Lost Odessey and everything else Mistwalker ever did has been complete shit, barely worth the plastic those games were printed on.

Final Fantasy X is one of the best Jrpg's of all time, as well as one of my favourite games, Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG this gen, and like he said, the only game that felt like Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy X.

Sir, i'm trying really hard not to just flat out insult you, cos what you just said is an insult to any JRPG fan.

Don't even reply to this post, we got nothing to discuss.

@BPRJCTX said:

@QuistisTrepe said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

One last point for people who no doubt can't wait to tell me how wrong I am - when Lost Odyssey is the one game this gen that felt most like a real Final Fantasy game, there is something seriously amiss over at Square Enix.

FFX was OK (X-2 had far worse presentation with superior gameplay), but many would argue FF has been garbage since VIII. Lost Odessey and everything else Mistwalker ever did has been complete shit, barely worth the plastic those games were printed on.

Final Fantasy X is one of the best Jrpg's of all time, as well as one of my favourite games, Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG this gen, and like he said, the only game that felt like Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy X.

Sir, i'm trying really hard not to just flat out insult you, cos what you just said is an insult to any JRPG fan.

Don't even reply to this post, we got nothing to discuss.

nope, you're wrong on both counts (and this comes from a JRPG fan). lost odyssey is mediocre at best, not even top 10 for me, and FFX is pretty bad; terrible characters, terrible plot...

@Animasta said:

@BPRJCTX said:

@QuistisTrepe said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

One last point for people who no doubt can't wait to tell me how wrong I am - when Lost Odyssey is the one game this gen that felt most like a real Final Fantasy game, there is something seriously amiss over at Square Enix.

FFX was OK (X-2 had far worse presentation with superior gameplay), but many would argue FF has been garbage since VIII. Lost Odessey and everything else Mistwalker ever did has been complete shit, barely worth the plastic those games were printed on.

Final Fantasy X is one of the best Jrpg's of all time, as well as one of my favourite games, Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG this gen, and like he said, the only game that felt like Final Fantasy since Final Fantasy X.

Sir, i'm trying really hard not to just flat out insult you, cos what you just said is an insult to any JRPG fan.

Don't even reply to this post, we got nothing to discuss.

nope, you're wrong on both counts (and this comes from a JRPG fan). lost odyssey is mediocre at best, not even top 10 for me, and FFX is pretty bad; terrible characters, terrible plot...

And in your opinion...

What are the best JRPG's of all time?

And this gen?

This is gonna be fun...

New and fresh? Only the desert shanty was remotely new and fresh, everything else was fucking straight out of Final Fantasy of late. None of that looked new to me. It looked like more Final Fantasy. They nailed the final bit in that coffin when they panned out and showed the other city. PHILOSOPHY. Dun dun dun.

@BPRJCTX: all time? SMT3: Nocturne and Nier if it counts.

this gen? Resonance of Fate, Dark Souls, the aformentioned Nier, Strange Journey, Devil Survivor, FF13-2...

@Animasta said:

@BPRJCTX: all time? SMT3: Nocturne and Nier if it counts.

this gen? Resonance of Fate, Dark Souls, the aformentioned Nier, Strange Journey, Devil Survivor, FF13-2...

Buhahahhaha!!!

Some good games in there (mostly), but, wow, ending with FF XIII-2 told me everything i needed to know.

Until next time.

@Hailinel said:

@Oldirtybearon Final Fantasy is a constantly evolving, changing series. It gets changed up with each new entry. Lost Odyssey may be a good game, but it only resembles Final Fantasy of a specific style and era.

Yeah, it reminds me of good old Final Fantasy.

When it was still... Good.

@BPRJCTX: sorry dude 13-2 is pretty good, still not the best FF (that is 12) but it largely succeeded where 13 failed.

@Animasta said:

@BPRJCTX: sorry dude 13-2 is pretty good, still not the best FF (that is 12) but it largely succeeded where 13 failed.

So, Lost Odyssey is mediocre, Final Fantasy X is bad, but...

XIII-2 is... Good?!

I wouldn't say it's a bad game, but for someone who enjoyed FF XIII, if not just for being a better Final Fantasy game that the previous one, Final Fantasy XII, which sucked as a final fantasy game, because there was basically not story, and it had none of that final fantasy magic.

Anyway, I have no words...

You know what, maybe i'm not a JRPG fan...

Cos, if that's the way "JRPG's fans" think about the genre...

I want no part in that.

FF12 was the last JRPG i played. it was right when i stopped really liking them. but for someone playing it that stopped liking the genre awhile ago, it was pretty good. though it was weird how the main character was completely pointless.

FFX was the worst pile of shit ive ever played. nonsensical story, stupid villians, stupid characters, stupid story, stupid world. it was terrible, it might even be the reason i dislike JRPGS now.

but back on topic here, yes, i'd LOVE to see eidos work on the next final fantasy. a new team doing something completely new with it would breath life into that franchise i think.

I hadn't thought of it like that. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
 
I agree that Japanese games need to keep their flavour and culture, but a lot of the actual game design in FFXIII was just garbage.

I hadn't thought of it like that. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.
 
I agree that Japanese games need to keep their flavour and culture, but a lot of the actual game design in FFXIII was just garbage.

@Hailinel said:

@Jimbo

I hadn't thought of it like that. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

I agree that Japanese games need to keep their flavour and culture, but a lot of the actual game design in FFXIII was just garbage.

The points that were most criticized were fixed in XIII-2.

and the plot was twice as stupid, which made that part of it more entertaining

@Dixavd said:

No. This is just an easy way to gauge public feedback on whether people want a Final Fantasy like this or not, it doesn't actually mean anything.

And I do not want to see the western Eidos side of Square Enix take on Final Fantasy, Japan is having enough trouble as it is trying to continue to get their culture to the masses and keep a traditional Japanese tone and pacing - taking away one of the only mainstream series which is keeping to that would be a bad move and both Sony and Nintendo would look down on them for it. It would be a bad move relations-wise even if the game came out well and sold great.

Ew.

I feel hte complete opposite. I used to play nothing but Japanese exports from Capcom, Nintendo, Square, Enix, Konami and Hudson growing up. Now I even begin to play a Japanese title and I have zero respect for them.

Technology has simply become too good and I can no longer buffer their culture through a lens of acceptibility for my imagination and sensibilities. I flat out and not into constant and relentless gender bending. I don't like villains constantly coming on to my heroes. I don't like grown women acting like 8 year old girls. I don't like un-necessary grunting and "unhs!" coming out of my male and female characters when it is completely inapropriate.

Unless Square DOES take HEAVY cues from the rest of the world, I will never play another one of their games.

Square Enix have said that they want to take their game in a more western friendly direction, so I guess it would make sense for them to work with Eidos on Final Fantasy. But it sounded like that didn't work out when they had the Swedish studio GRIN working on a Final Fantasy game a few years ago.

People keep talking about Euros as if they're somehow this independent entity outside of Square Enix's influence.

You know what, Eidos Montreal nailed the aesthetic in Human Revolution, so I'd actually love to see what they would do with the Final Fantasy universe. I support your idea. But are they? No way. Even as a matter of pride, I don't think Square would let that happen with all the tradition that series has as a part of Japanese culture. Similarly, an American company should never be able to make a Mass Effect game.

People keep talking about Euros as if they're somehow this independent entity outside of Square Enix's influence.

@Hailinel said:

@Hailinel

People keep talking about Euros as if they're somehow this independent entity outside of Square Enix's influence.

EIDOS. Fucking Eidos, autocorrect.

you are so racist

Okay, let me put in my two cents in here if I may....

I've been an avid fan of Square-Enix ever since I played Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy VII. Back then when the Playstation came out, these two games were my first real exposure to RPG's, and as you might have guessed, it also sparked my love for the Final Fantasy series overall.

Over the course of a few years thereafter, I initially thought that an RPG game was supposed to play like Final Fantasy in terms of how the plot and characters are structured, how the in-game battle feels like in terms of the ATB and Turn-based mechanism, and most importantly, if the dialogue was supposed to be read and not heard (I'm gonna miss those pop-up bubbles..*sniff sniff*).

If I had dedicated my time into the game and if I thought that the plot was decent and it kept my attention, then it was a great RPG.

It wasn't until the change in the landscape of consoles did I realize that there were other variations of how an RPG could be played. When I had found out about World of Warcraft, Diablo, The Elder Scrolls series, and Jade Empire, Alundra, Vagrant Story, Metal Gear, etc....I realized that my perception of RPG's had started to change. Like racing games, and action games, and puzzle games, RPG's can change....and change, if you didn't already know, is a good thing. (And to give you a really good gesture of my tastes, I had a hard time adjusting to things when Legend of Mana came out. I loved the game but I really wanted it to play like Final Fantasy and not this whole running around and pressing the same attack button. I went back and played it a few years after it's release and enjoyed it for what it was and to this day, I'm still looking for clean, physical copy.)

I look at every RPG as an RPG regardless of whether or not its from Japan or if it's Westernized, because at the end of the day, my personal liking towards the game is what really matters.

I consider Final Fantasy X to be a really great game since it was the first time voice acting was introduced for the series as well as for the genre (I think) and I remember commending Square Enix in the music and the story as well, I thought the character developments and the art design were beyond amazing at the time.

I also think highly of FFXIII and FXIII-2 as much as I praise the Shin Megami Tensei Persona series.

I don't think people have gotten used to accepting games as they are, and if they have before then I guess some of us have lost that art. While I don't necessarily believe in a bad game, I do believe in a poor production. Square Enix and other companies that have been associated with making RPG's have, in my mind, made top quality games, and that's why I hold these entities pretty high on the pedestal.

Eidos making a Final Fantasy game? I ove the idea as much as I loved the trailer that the OP showed and I would very much love to see a Western turn of this valiant and extremely addictive franchise.

I don't see this happening, ever.

Also it's a weird thing to ask for. Final Fantasy is probably the most variable of any franchise in gaming. Frankly, it's less of a series or franchise, and more of a brand; it's Square's shorthand for "we're spending a lot of money and throwing our best dudes at this so please buy it". There are very few enduring narrative, aesthetic or mechanical elements that carry from game to game (though you could argue that the pre- and post-VII games form two different groups, each having a somewhat common vision). It's not like Ninja Theory taking a swing at DMC, where there are established characters, lore, etc. to be reinterpreted. It's a totally different thing filed under the same name for brand awareness purposes.

@BPRJCTX said:

Final Fantasy X is one of the best Jrpg's of all time,

Man......**smh**

Here's a little insider info I got on the situation at Square Enix. I heard from someone with good authority that during the development of Deus Ex, Square Enix had their top developers visiting Eidos Montreal all the time to figure out how they worked as the development quality in Montreal was so much higher than that of Japan. I got this second hand from someone who talked to the staff members there. Can't say any names or anything but the answer to your question is that Square Enix bought Eidos in part to learn how the West develops games and its staff has been analyzing the work in Montreal and in Europe very closely and fashioning their Japanese design strategies around those they saw used there. How much the actual content will change is open to debate. But suffice to say that the way they design games going forward was directly influenced by how Deus Ex and other Eidos games were designed.

@Raven10 said:

Here's a little insider info I got on the situation at Square Enix. I heard from someone with good authority that during the development of Deus Ex, Square Enix had their top developers visiting Eidos Montreal all the time to figure out how they worked as the development quality in Montreal was so much higher than that of Japan. I got this second hand from someone who talked to the staff members there. Can't say any names or anything but the answer to your question is that Square Enix bought Eidos in part to learn how the West develops games and its staff has been analyzing the work in Montreal and in Europe very closely and fashioning their Japanese design strategies around those they saw used there. How much the actual content will change is open to debate. But suffice to say that the way they design games going forward was directly influenced by how Deus Ex and other Eidos games were designed.

Thank you, thank you very much.

And, that's pretty much what came to my mind when i saw this tech demo.

And, i couldn't be happier about it.

It's about time japan gets with the times, cos beyond Platinum Games, and a few others, Japanese games have become almost irrelevant to the industry this gen.

I played VII, Didn't care for it, I then bought IX when I bought my playstation, I loved that. No other FF has come close to what IX was for me. But then again, I don't remember a sequel that has come close to what the first was. The only Great Sequel that I can remember is Portal 2.

There's a huge contradiction in the OP's argument. How can a game "totally look like something new and fresh" while being "the kind of thing we used to expect from a new Final Fantasy"? Not that I disagree with the fact that Eidos has some sort of impact on Square's development teams but that line kinda bothers me.

Also how has this become a Lost Odyssey shit-talking thread? It's one of my favorite games on the 360. Sure I can see why people dislike it but it's a pretty amazing game in my opinion. Hell I almost want to buy a Wii just to play Last Story.

@Jazzycola said:

There's a huge contradiction in the OP's argument. How can a game "totally look like something new and fresh" while being "the kind of thing we used to expect from a new Final Fantasy"? Not that I disagree with the fact that Eidos has some sort of impact on Square's development teams but that line kinda bothers me.

Also how has this become a Lost Odyssey shit-talking thread? It's one of my favorite games on the 360. Sure I can see why people dislike it but it's a pretty amazing game in my opinion. Hell I almost want to buy a Wii just to play Last Story.

Cos, the thing with the Final Fantasy series, at least for me, was that every game "felt new and fresh".

The gameplay didn't chang that much, it evolved over time, but everything from the story, charaters and world, to the visual artstyle, to the music, was tottally diffrent from one game to the next.

That's the thing i loved about Final Fantasy, and since X, even though they tried, they haven' been able to achive the same level of quality they had back then.

And they just completely lost that Final Fantasy Magic, it's something they had, which you can't really describe, but, the fact is they lost it, and the only game that came close to that since FFX, was Lost Odyssey.

@BPRJCTX: The one thing I didn't go to Final Fantasy was for new,refreshing things. One could argue that at it's core Final Fantasy hasn't changed since VII with maybe the exception being XII. Deep down it's still turn-based. The story can usually be devolved into this guy/gal wants to destroy the world. You could put each character into a similar group of characters from other Final Fantasy games:

Yuffie, Vanille, Rikku and Selphie - The quirky and eccentric women who at times run off to do whatever they want.

Kimahri, Red XIII, Auron, Seifer, Tifa and Vanille - The tough guys/gals that take things way too serious.

Squall, Vincent, Irvine, and to some extent Cloud - The angst filled, confident yet self-conscience lady's man.

Barrett, Zasz, Zell, and Wakka - tough guys who deep down are big softies that add comic relief.

I mean being new and refreshing isn't ever really what Final Fantasy has done in nearly 15 years. Even the music sounds eerily similar from one game to the other. You're last sentence I will agree with however. It does seem as if they lost that distinct feel that is a Final Fantasy game.

Notice I didn't have any characters described from XII. It's not that none of the characters fit into that respective role, it's that I don't really remember any of the characters from it.

@Jazzycola: For some reason, I never played XII. I just never got around to buying it.

I think the franchise is evolving, and yes even after X. I think what you guys really miss is playing it on the PlayStation. If you really think about it, VII, VIII, IX had somewhat of the same feel as far as graphical capability and gameplay, and I kind of feel like gamers ended up not liking X because they either had a hard time adjusting to the change in the new tech aspects at the time or that they simply just hopped on the bandwagon.

Honestly, when X came out, I was really blown away. I don't see why all the hate for it.