#1 Posted by AsperGamer (161 posts) -

So much is said that the Wii U is a waste of time as it is only slightly better than the current consoles. That leaves me wondering, exactly what will the Xbox 3 and PS4 do? Let me just share my ponderation and please fill in the gaps.

The Wii U will use Blu-ray discs, so it has 25Gb/50Gb capability. There is no new discs on the way, so I assume so will the Xbox 3 and PS4. So, won't the size of the games be the same?

My television, like probably all of you as well, does HD at 1080p. The Wii U will run at 1080p. I assume the Xbox 3 and PS4 will also? I know we have televisions that can do 3 or 4k, but surely they won't be commonplace in the next 5 years right? If Sony and Microsoft make this a capability, isn't that going to add a big cost that will likely never be used?

The Wii U will run games at 60fps (assuming they are made that way). The human eye can't really perceive anything above 60fps, so there really isn't much point in going above it, especially if it isn't consistent. So I assume the Xbox 3 and PS4 will be going for a steady 60fps as well?

My thoughts are then, how will they really be different? I do assume they will have a reasonably greater amount of power, but exactly what will that mean? It will produce more calculations per second, so it is clear it can do more, but will it matter? How will it matter? If it uses more data to produce a "bigger" or 'better' game, won't that eat into the disc data and potentially make the games smaller (they have 50Gb, so it would take a big game to use all of that I assume)?

I can see some upsides, so add to them please, fill in the gaps for me. In a game like GT or Forza, the damage simulation should be a lot better, and perhaps the cars will feel like that are moving, rather than the track (I get that when I don't play cockpit view). More characters on screen and actually doing stuff surely is a big possibility.

However, what about the cost? Will this be a problem for developers? Will games become so expensive to make, very few can afford the risk outside the guaranteed blockbuster titles? Will it spell the end of adventurous titles? Will be able to get away with making smaller budget titles and still sell them at retail?

Forgive my ponderation. I am left with the view that the gap between the Wii U and PS4/Xbox 3 won't be as big as this generation, but I am happy to be shown as wrong. I am also keen to hear some other ponderations about what you are expecting.

Thanks for reading.

#2 Edited by groin (833 posts) -

@AsperGamer said:

The Wii U will run games at 60fps (assuming they are made that way). The human eye can't really perceive anything above 60fps, so there really isn't much point in going above it, especially if it isn't consistent. So I assume the Xbox 3 and PS4 will be going for a steady 60fps as well?

I cannot prove it but I am human. I was born on earth anyway but I can perceive framerates above 60 fps. My limit is around 73-75 FPS.

#3 Posted by TruthTellah (8420 posts) -

@AsperGamer: Have you seen the Unreal Engine 4 and Luminous Engine demos by any chance? The ones where they look at the new tools developers will be able to use when developing for PC and "next gen hardware"?

If you haven't, I'd really recommend as many of those as you can watch. When you hear a developer explain and show some of the advances, it's really quite exciting. :)

#4 Posted by psylah (2161 posts) -

I really hope that Microsoft or Sony make supporting the Oculus Rift a banner that they will fly, maybe as an additional feature, the same way Sony came along midway though the PS3 lifecycle and started promoting 3D.

Even if the 3D TV support didn't take off, at least the Oculus is a new way to experience games, something that's going to be more than welcome if the next-gen comes along and seems like more of the same.

#5 Posted by optimusprime223 (396 posts) -

I think the next generation will create better graphics and all that jazz, like what most people expect, but it will be more about the digital future. So the consoles will have an online store front where all games are released at both retail and digitally day and date, allowing for smaller titles and those big blockbusters to have a fairly equal footing. The lessons learned this generation, the first truely connected console cycle, will give way to a most robust online service from both Microsoft and Sony, and one that is easier to use than before (though that will be debatable)

#6 Edited by Miningguyx360 (324 posts) -

@groin: @AsperGamer: yeah I'm pretty sure the whole idea behind 120hz TVs is that you can see the difference in the interpolation (even though its kinda bad unless it's a blu-ray). If you have a 120hz tv and a game running at 120fps+, you'll definitely notice the difference. Most computer monitors don't have that spec (except if it's 3d compatible, another thing 120hz is useful for) so the refresh rate is usually around 60hz meaning you can't see the difference when the game jumps above 60fps.

#7 Edited by John1912 (1813 posts) -

Your comparing all the pointless basics. The PS4 and Xbox 3 will have MUCH higher end video cards, maybe more memory, and come packaged with harddrives. Just because a video card can display 1080p doesnt mean it can out the same amount of polygons, lighting, same level of quality of textures, ect. So basically games and much higher quality graphics. Same as its always been.

*Edit Obviously they will have higher end CPUs as well. You questions on why or how this all matters is rather ambiguous. You can ask if any of it matter, but there is not enough information to just hand you and say here. Just look at all the past consoles for a guideline

#8 Edited by Anund (876 posts) -

Say the games are both running at 60fps. Which one looks better? There is more to performance than FPS. It's what you can do with your games while maintaining the FPS that is interesting.

#9 Posted by mikey87144 (1649 posts) -

Better art assets. Better AI routines, Games maybe running at 60fps standard for a few years, better integration of streaming services,

#10 Posted by adam1808 (1358 posts) -

@Anund: If you think about it, consoles probably won't ever have 60 fps games as the norm. When you've got fixed hardware, you develop games to look as good as possible at the lowest acceptable framerate i.e: 30 because your average player doesn't mind that a game isn't super smooth if it looks great, Uncharted 2 proved that.

#11 Posted by muralbat (152 posts) -

@John1912: . You questions on why or how this all matters is rather ambiguous. You can ask if any of it matter, but there is not enough information to just hand you and say here.

You say that but before that state that the next consoles will be better than the Wii U. How does that work?

Why would they come with more memory or a higher end card? If people are more than happy with what they have now in terms of graphics and gameplay, then work towards making a better profit, thats what i'd do if I ran a company.

#12 Edited by AsperGamer (161 posts) -

@John1912 said:

Your comparing all the pointless basics. The PS4 and Xbox 3 will have MUCH higher end video cards, maybe more memory, and come packaged with harddrives. Just because a video card can display 1080p doesnt mean it can out the same amount of polygons, lighting, same level of quality of textures, ect. So basically games and much higher quality graphics. Same as its always been.

*Edit Obviously they will have higher end CPUs as well. You questions on why or how this all matters is rather ambiguous. You can ask if any of it matter, but there is not enough information to just hand you and say here. Just look at all the past consoles for a guideline

I am aware of all of that, I just wonder exactly how much of a difference to games it will really make, given the media we use to play them on. No doubt they will look better, they would have to as some of the graphics I see are horrible to my eye and I am talking about games like GTA IV which I really disliked (visually). I expect better facial expressions, better mouth movement as well as body movement, especially walking. However, I don't expect to see Pixaror Avatar quality gaming graphics.

As for porting to a Wii U, I struggle to grasp how big a gap it will be, outside of some games that perhaps use new engines beyond Wii U capability. Surely that won't be a lot of games as the cost will be too great for most developers? Everything is conjecture though. We are all speculating.

@muralbat said:

@John1912: . You questions on why or how this all matters is rather ambiguous. You can ask if any of it matter, but there is not enough information to just hand you and say here.

You say that but before that state that the next consoles will be better than the Wii U. How does that work?

Why would they come with more memory or a higher end card? If people are more than happy with what they have now in terms of graphics and gameplay, then work towards making a better profit, thats what i'd do if I ran a company.

Let's face it, the PS4 and Xbox 3 will be more powerful than the Wii U, it is only about by how much. I am sure Nostradamus predicted it somewhere. Microsoft will go with the best tech they can reasonably afford to market, that s just how they roll. Whatever they choose it will out of date compared to PC anyway. They want to be seen as market leaders in consoles, so there is a kind of arms race playing out, which is why Nintendo dropped out of it. Making something at a price a market will buy is the tricky part.

#13 Posted by Anund (876 posts) -

@adam1808 said:

@Anund: If you think about it, consoles probably won't ever have 60 fps games as the norm. When you've got fixed hardware, you develop games to look as good as possible at the lowest acceptable framerate i.e: 30 because your average player doesn't mind that a game isn't super smooth if it looks great, Uncharted 2 proved that.

I've always preferred better graphics and 30 fps to worse graphics and 60fps. I can barely tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps. That all future games will run at 60 fps was not the point I was making at all. I was trying to illustrate that there is more to how a game looks than FPS and resolution. If I use my old computer and set all the graphics to the minumum settings I can run a modern game at 60 fps and HD resolutions. If I take my new computer I can do the same at max settings. Does that make the new computer the same as the old one? It seems to me that is what the OP is saying.

#14 Posted by Sploder (917 posts) -

A Gohan processor

#15 Edited by Gargantuan (1880 posts) -

New consoles usually mean new IPs which is pretty exciting.

#16 Posted by TheVeteran13 (1197 posts) -

They'll probably strap some guns on the sides, it'll be sick.

#17 Posted by BlatantNinja23 (930 posts) -

Tessellation and other fancy DX 11 goodness, which once DX 11 is the "standard" those will be incredibly important and the DX 9 wii u counter parts will become more and more garish looking. Even games as old as crysis 2 you could tell just how much early dx 11 work improved games.

#18 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

MORE GRAFICCSSS

#19 Posted by Daneian (1202 posts) -

The Wii U is Blu Ray compatible? How have I missed that bit of info?

#20 Edited by Damian (1538 posts) -

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@Daneian said:

The Wii U is Blu Ray compatible? How have I missed that bit of info?

From Wikipedia:

The game discs used by the console were said to be of a proprietary format, and to hold up to 25 GB of data, which is similar to the capacity of a single-layer Blu-ray Disc.

Not Blu-ray.

#21 Posted by Damian (1538 posts) -

@BlueLantern1995: Had to check, 'cause I was just as shocked.

#22 Posted by AsperGamer (161 posts) -

@Damian said:

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@Daneian said:

The Wii U is Blu Ray compatible? How have I missed that bit of info?

From Wikipedia:

The game discs used by the console were said to be of a proprietary format, and to hold up to 25 GB of data, which is similar to the capacity of a single-layer Blu-ray Disc.

Not Blu-ray.

For all intention purposes, they are they same thing, just as the Wii has effectively DVDs. As far as I know they use the same laser technology. This way they avoid paying to use it. Unless someone comes up with a new format, we are talking the same thing.

#23 Edited by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

Well, considering that very little info has been released for either system, I'd say that we should probably wait a little while longer to find out everything they have to offer.

#24 Edited by Daneian (1202 posts) -

@AsperGamer said:

@Damian said:

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@Daneian said:

The Wii U is Blu Ray compatible? How have I missed that bit of info?

From Wikipedia:

The game discs used by the console were said to be of a proprietary format, and to hold up to 25 GB of data, which is similar to the capacity of a single-layer Blu-ray Disc.

Not Blu-ray.

For all intention purposes, they are they same thing, just as the Wii has effectively DVDs. As far as I know they use the same laser technology. This way they avoid paying to use it. Unless someone comes up with a new format, we are talking the same thing.

Okay. The wii has a DVD player that doesn't play DVD's. Does that mean the Wii U has a Blu Ray player that doesn't play Blu Rays?

Edit: came off dickier than I intended. Apologies.

#25 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (2535 posts) -

MY THOUGHTS ON PS$ (but the same spec coudl be said of XB720)

First of all, I have it on good authority Asians find the number four inauspicious. Nevertheless, I will call Sony's next product PS4 for clarity’s sake. I expect the name to be PlayStation Dash or Aqua. It will be called anything that doesn’t mean four, but I rather doubt Americans will like the name right away. We will get used to the new name I’m sure, but for now let us call it PS4.

I think it is very likely PS4 will have a far more similar chip to XB720. That has been the talk since 2009, and I think there is fire under that smoke that says it will be an Intel chip. This is good news for our lazy development community because it will likely mean PS4 and XB720 will be kissing cousins. Sony’s relationship with Nvidia is strong and so I expect that to be continued as well. Therefore, we should expect a multicore CPU and an NVidia GPU to match, and quadruple the RAM if not more.

The question of what type of output of video are we talking about might be broached now, and I say Sony will push the limits. I expect Sony to support its consumer electronics arm by demanding the GPU handle QFHD (Quad Full High Definition) of 3840×2160 pixels arranged in a 16:9 aspect ratio. It is four times the resolution of the 1080p HDTV video standard. This is both “future proofing” but is practical too since a GPU that can do that will easily handle 3D 1080p @ 120 fps (240Hz HDTV). The way I see it Sony will want smooth 3D, so that means forget about struggling to get 60fps because PS4 will push past that easily. For you that do not like 3D fear not because that means your game will be far beyond what your old HDTV can output…thus you will feel like buying a new HDTV…thus you will be buying a 3D 480Hz HDTV…thus you won’t hate 3D for long. THANKS SONY YOU’RE A PEACH!!! (That's irony folks)

Sony has had better luck in other areas, namely Blu-Ray and storage components of the PS3. Samsung as of 24 months ago was showing off a 12x Blu-Ray drive. So at least we should see something like that, but a 24x is not out of the question if PS4 launches in 2014. For storage, I would expect a HDD in every machine, but not a SSD. The good news is by 2014 we could easily expect the 'base' PS4 to come with a hefty 500 GB drive that may even sport a 10K spindle speed making is a very fast, if somewhat conventional, storage device. SSDs are still too expensive and unreliable for large storage jobs, but we might possibly see a SSD used for the PS4 OS thus making it an ‘instant on’ device.

For input/output ports, we can expect updated HDMI made for QFHD (Quad Full High Definition) and USB 3.0 to be standard. Also, expect the latest in Dolby Digital outputs that might even adhere to a high-end wireless audio pushing standard. The next version of Bluetooth 5.0 will be expected as well. These won’t be very expensive additions since I fully expect all of that will be out by next year if not sooner.

The controllers will be Duel Shock 4 I expect, but I foresee that Sony will make them motion controllers as well as joypads. Expect all the sensors you would expect form a next generation motion controller, but also expect that the DS4 will have dual Mount Fujis arising from the middle top and bottom. Where the current Start, Select, and the “PS” buttons will be on a little hill that will be capped by a little “cap” which the next PSEye will be able to track. With little Fujis on the top and bottom the PS4 should be able to track the Dual Shock as well as it does the wand now.

The PS4’s GUI will be some variant of the Xross Media Bar, but I expect that the connection to the internet will make all the icons flashy like whores with interactive video and music. PSN will likely add some features like cross-game chat, cross-movie chat, and cross-spectral chat which will allow for speaking to the dead…something the Japanese will like even less, if that is possible, than talking to living gamers now. In all truth expect what XBL does and more so that there will be near parity in such functions.

Now we come to the big question of shape and color; I see in my mind’s eye…nothing. It won’t be square, it won’t be round, it won’t be shaped like a jellybean, but that is all I know. It will be black or white in color. PS3 has had great success without a drive door or tray, so I expect we will shove the discs in a slot again. The colored lights have been a big hit as well, so expect more colored lights.

For all you haters...I expect the XB720 to do the SAME thing and be at the same bar. There will be VERY LITTLE difference. Both will display 4K, both will have 4GB of RAM if not more, and both will still use HDDs for storage...like both will use small SSDs for the OS. Sony will go with Move 2.0 and XB720 with Kinect 2.0.

#26 Edited by MonkeyKing1969 (2535 posts) -

Oh, I shoudl have pointed out that there is a good bit of BluRay tech going on behind the scenes. The Blu-Ray wiki page talks about Pioneer Corporation unveiling a 400 GB Blu-ray Discs. And also layered DVD/BluRay discs taht can be put into either type of machine. Also, research teams of Sony and Japanese Tohoku University announced the joint development of a blue-violet laser, which will help in creating Blu-ray discs with a capacity of 1 TB (dual layer). The new laser sounds like the easier method...again a single year COULD help make that a possibility for PS4.

The bottom line is the current 32 GB BluRay discs are not all Sony or MS could deploy. Bigger games need bigger discs. And SuperHD 4K games will probably need more then 32GB or even dual-layer 50GB discs. Yet, even the most modest and inexpensive updates to BluRay tech in the machines could easily show a speed and date density increase that would make the newer system better then they older. Nintendo says its propitiatory discs hold 25GB, but XB720 and PS4 could hold 100GB merely using 2007 technology already developed.

#27 Posted by AsperGamer (161 posts) -

@MonkeyKing1969

I will hold you to all of that!

#28 Posted by Yanngc33 (4496 posts) -

For one, the 360 doesn't currently use Blu Ray so the 720 will probably make the jump to Blu Ray. The PS4 might use some kind of multi layered Blu Ray disc that's proprietary in order to stay one step ahead of the 720. I think the PS4 will be able to reach 4k resolution since Sony always future proofs its consoles (most of the time) and you can be sure that Sony is developing those kinds of TVs. I think both will be 3D ready. As for what's inside of these things... I guess we can expect smoother framerates, for the PS4 better shadows (let's not forget that the PS3 can't render different shades of a same shadow). Everything's going to be smoother. I don't think the jump will be as shocking as when we went from PS3 to PS4 but it will look better. I hope

#29 Posted by Demoskinos (14520 posts) -

We will never know. Triple H cut his hair. There is NO way to tell if the next systems are going to be better now.

#30 Posted by runnah555 (148 posts) -

Both versions will become "Home Media Centers". Gaming will take a back seat to advertising and terrible video/music apps.

#31 Posted by AsperGamer (161 posts) -

@runnah555 said:

Both versions will become "Home Media Centers". Gaming will take a back seat to advertising and terrible video/music apps.

I am not fan of trying to make game consoles do everything. I have other stuff to do that. Seems to be the future though - everyone else must want it. I just use my game consoles to play games. All of that other stuff adds cost and is a waste of money for me. Living in the past man, living in the past!