Expectation vs Reality

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Captain_Insano

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I'm sure this topic has been covered elsewhere, but Forum search really sucks, so I couldn't find a previous thread. Following on from the Beastcast's recent discussion about No Man's Sky and how the final product did not match the 'gameplay' trailer that SONY put out in 2014.

I haven't actually played No Man's Sky (frankly, even the 2014 trailer doesn't really interest me), but I know it's the game of the moment so I thought it was a good example to use. The Beastcast rattled off a few other games with deceptive trailers - Bioshock Infinite being the one they looked at. For me, Watch_Dogs is the one that really duped me.

This phenomenon, for me, is a relatively recent one. Hype and Expectation management has always been important and I think that I'm much more cynical prior to games' releases than I used to be (that being said, I am HYPED for Civ VI). Growing up, I used to get hyped as well, but most of my information was garnered from Magazine screenshots and actual gameplay demos, most of which actually gave a rough indication of a game's appearance. The most disappointed I ever got was with the game Medievil, mainly because a friend of mine basically described it in terms that made it sound like a PS1 Skyrim and, well, it definitely wasn't that.

Companies outright lie about what their products will be now - and I understand why - Watch_Dogs had astronomical pre-order numbers and No Man's Sky had huge levels of hype around it - it's definitely sold more than it ever would have otherwise. I, like the Beast Crew, do believe that many developers and even their PR representation believe that the game can look the way it does, but they have to realistically know it won't reach those lofty heights. If they release the trailer with something like "Gameplay Concept Trailer" - this would still allow people to build hype but tempered with realism. I feel that a lot of the criticisms that these devs later receive could be mitigated by better expectation management (that said, bad expectation management = more money).

Anyway.

What games have burnt you? Where the hype actually ruined a game for you?

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FrostyRyan

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Letting hype ruin games is dumb. The game ruins the game.

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SpaceInsomniac

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Regarding No Man's Sky, this was also an interesting video and argument:

Loading Video...

As someone who has yet to play the game, can anyone explain what aspects from the 2014 trailer aren't found in the retail version?

To take a guess, I'd say it's probably the game displaying so many different animals together, there being such a large variety of animals at once, animals that shake trees when they run through them, animals that run in the first place, the number and variety of space craft on screen at once, and the planets being so close together that it makes it easy to fly from one to the next in a matter of seconds.

How did I do?

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mike

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#4  Edited By mike

@spaceinsomniac: You more or less got it, there is quite a bit in addition to that though. But planets actually are that close together. Plus your ship has warp drives and you can go from the surface of one planet to the surface of another in less than a minute, which I always did because there are very few reasons to even be in space at all.

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SpaceInsomniac

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@mike said:

@spaceinsomniac: You more or less got it, there is quite a bit in addition to that though. The planets actually are that close together. Plus your ship has warp drives and you can go from the surface of one planet to the surface of another in less than a minute, which I always did because there are very few reasons to even be in space at all.

Care to elaborate?

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@spaceinsomniac: Not really, not right now anyway. You can find comparisons on YouTube and Reddit with huge lists of differences though. It's a lot of little things, not including features that were talked about and didn't make it into the game.

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probablytuna

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I think it was when I saw the launch trailer for Watch Dogs and seeing just how much of a difference it was compared to the announcement trailer/demo that I started seeing how powerful and dangerous hype and expectations of a game can be. Since then I've tried to manage my expectations and accept that whatever gameplay footage the developers show us a year or two before the game's release will almost always differ from the final product. This can be seen in the aforementioned Watch Dogs, No Man's Sky and in other cases: Witcher 3, The Division, Destiny and so on.

I don't necessarily have a problem with that as I do believe what they showed during that time was what they think they will be able to achieve tech/performance-wise but during optimisation/bug fixing/etc, corners may have to be cut, making it feel like they sold us on something that isn't reflected in the final build. This doesn't excuse the developers, and it's not to say that consumers shouldn't be upset by this, but I'd like to think that most developers aren't doing this to trick people into giving them money. The only way I can think of that will combat this issue is for consumers to temper their expectations of a game and maybe more importantly, developers should only start showing their game later on in the development cycle.

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Captain_Insano

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@probablytuna: I agree. The difference for me with The Witcher 3 is that the graphics didn't quite match but it was still gorgeous and had a deep world. Watch Dogs was so shallow

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muffinsaka

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#9  Edited By muffinsaka

I understand that the visuals not being as dense as in the trailer is bothering people but I have 20 hours in the game and I don't completely understand what is "bs"

Almost reasonably everything in that trailer is in the game aside from:

- As dense population of animals

- Atmospheric effects and textures seem to be higher quality

- There's a lot more ships together in space. Usually its 3-4, not 20+.

- Shooting other ships in the planets atmosphere (which just takes place in space now)

Otherwise, I legitimately am confused about what is a lie. All of those things are reasonable changes after a long time in development.

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Jesus_Phish

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Expectation
Expectation
Reality
Reality

I'm not saying we should let developers away with it, but it's not like false advertising is anything new.

Just like I don't eat at McDonalds or Burger King (for a variety of reasons) I don't buy into the pre-release hype of a game and I'm not surprised when the release product looks nowhere near as good as the original trailers.

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probablytuna

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@captain_insano: Oh definitely, it was a pretty minor affair when compared to the other games listed but it didn't stop people from criticising CDPR and generate controversy from the launch trailer.

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Captain_Insano

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@jesus_phish: I think the difference is that the burger, despite not resembling it's ideal image, still has the core 'features' of the pictured advertisement. A lot of games are straight up being deceptive or wrong about what features they have in them. I don't buy in to hype either (except Civ VI, setting myself up for disappointment). I don't pre-order and generally wait for reviews or some gameplay footage, but I still think lying without being clear is bullshit. It's fine to have an ideal goal, but be upfront about the reality as you get closer to it - No Man's Sky had some bullshit statements about multiplayer that have proven to be wrong.

As I mentioned, I haven't played NMS and don't intend this to be a NMS bashing thread, but I'm getting sick of 'gameplay footage' not being of what the actual game is like. I feel like at least Bioshock Infinite retracted from its original vision and The Witcher 3 still delivered the game it promised.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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When was the last time a big game came out that wasn't disappointing?

@captain_insano What statement is that?

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#14  Edited By Rahf

@captain_insano: I'm in agreement regarding Bioshock Infinite. That game had such a long marketing cycle and a widely distributed as well as viewed gameplay demo. The actual contents of the game didn't fully match the audience's first impression, but I wonder if this is somehow a retrospective with falsely constructed expectations and memories. It feels like some people haven't actually taken a true reflection on how Bioshock Infinite played and unfolded: free and open battle arenas with some neat additions, framing a very interesting story and characters. I do not know if players expected it to be a GTA sandbox, but I was certainly happy with what was offered.

With the Witcher 3: Wild Hunt the player base arguably got more than it expected. I can look back on that game now and see the negative sides of it, whether combat gameplay, frequent technical issues on the PC or the main story's poorly paced middle act. However, I could not stop playing that game. Every single gameplay session was a wondrous delving into some of the most fantastic gaming moments through my adult life. It gave much more than I expected, and then some. Imagine a third iteration in a video game trilogy succeeding with that.

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Captain_Insano

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@jonny_anonymous: I misspoke a bit, though I'm sure that Sean Murray mentioned players being able to interact at various points (I could be misremembering), and at the very least he played coy when asked about multiplayer. I don't think it would hurt to say "You'll see other players' discoveries, but won't interact directly with other players'.

I've played plenty of big games this year that I haven't been disappointed in - DOOM, XCOM 2, Overwatch, Hitman, Total War: Warhammer.

The difference is that I didn't get overly hyped for those (except XCOM 2 - and that did disappoint a lot of people because it was initially broken - somehow it wasn't broken for me). Some of those games (Hitman, Total War) actually surprised me. The difference is, unless I missed it, they didn't promise stuff they haven't delivered on - I don't remember gameplay trailers of Hitman showing me a multitude of ways to assassinate people that I can't actually do. Or showing me "gameplay footage" that is miles away from what it ends up being.

We have to manage our own hype and expectations, and I generally do that, but I think publishers and devs do need to be called out on outright misleading consumers. Again, it's fine to have a concept goal, but you can pull it back if needed. That being said, there's money to be made.

It's kind of interesting in a way that we haven't seen any Mass Effect: Andromeda. No ridiculous gameplay footage - almost like they're trying to not overhype the game (they may still do so later in the cycle). I'm extra dubious now of games like Horizon: Zero Dawn because that looks GREAT and I can't believe them on it til I actually see it.

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nickhead

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I understand that the visuals not being as dense as in the trailer is bothering people but I have 20 hours in the game and I don't completely understand what is "bs"

Almost reasonably everything in that trailer is in the game aside from:

- As dense population of animals

- Atmospheric effects and textures seem to be higher quality

- There's a lot more ships together in space. Usually its 3-4, not 20+.

- Shooting other ships in the planets atmosphere (which just takes place in space now)

Otherwise, I legitimately am confused about what is a lie. All of those things are reasonable changes after a long time in development.

Yeah this is basically how I felt after going back and watching it...

On topic, Destiny burned me. Initially I was very very excited and after that alpha all hope was lost. Once the game had some updates I got into it and enjoyed my time (a lot), but that's the most recent example for me.

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SpaceInsomniac

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Honestly I'm not sure what my exact expectations of LA Noire were meant to be. Frankly they were met in the first third of the game, and then after that they decide to wrap up the Black Dahlia reimagining, take away your alcoholic partner, and give you a bunch of bad writing that wasn't fun to slog through at all. The latter 2/3rds of that game burned me. About the only good thing to come out of it was that one Eurogamer article where the author took his ex cop father on a virtual tour of 1950s LA and he reminisced.

Brad gave that game five stars.

If you enjoy hating on LA Noire as much as I do, I highly recommend this article: http://gamecritics.com/daniel-weissenberger/l-a-noires-problems-finally-reach-their-end/

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deactivated-629ec706f0783

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On trends of recent years, with so many super early "real time footage" trailers, I don't even classify it as hype anymore, I personally classify it as marketing misdirection. When the trailers for a game come out, and especially if they are put out with the blessing of the publisher (like Sony and the NMS E3 demo, as well as the "4 Pillars" demos from earlier this year) the assumption from the consumer should be that what you see in those trailers are what you are going to get.

Now I know game dev is a complicated thing and what the game ends up being can change. That is fine. What is NOT fine is when the game devs and the game publisher's do nothing to inform the public that things have changed, and update trailers with a more realistic view of what the end product will likely be. Gaming seems to be the one area of consumer products where this just happens without much outcry, either because the audience just expects it or maybe the masses just don't pay attention. Sure it happens sometimes in movie trailers, but (mostly) trailers are made with clips that are in the movie, just out of order to seem more dramatic (i know sometimes they show cut scenes but it's seemingly not as common anymore).

It makes me wish there were more standards and regulations in the gaming industry, though if there were I think there would other, more pressing matters to handle first. This issue boils down to what I feel is the biggest issue in the games industry the past few years, lack of communications. It just feels like any studio and publisher that isn't "indie" has just shut themselves off from interacting with the public and most games media, instead just hiring their own "influences" to spread the very specific word they want for their product. As a consumer this has been really, really troubling to me, as I want to feel like I'm getting the honest story from the people I purchases games from, and since 2013-2014 I just haven't felt that from most game companies. I think it's a troubling trend, and not one I see stopping anytime soon.

But, maybe none of that matters? Even when games are bad, even when these controversies happen, the game still sells boat loads. Gaming is such a weird consumer industry, and every game seems to just sell, reinforcing companies to keep on their path. Even though I've gotten a lot more strict with my spending, and I "vote with my dollars", it doesn't really matter if I don't spend money on a game due to not liking some practices by the company or publisher, because 50 other people behind me already pre-ordered it.

The times are fucking weird right now y'all.

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SpaceInsomniac

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@spaceinsomniac: I don't enjoy hating on the game, but I do think it got way too much of a pass by virtue of its publisher.

I don't enjoy hating on many games, but that particular title is a rare exception. Still the only title that I ever sold back to the store where I bought it.

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@captain_insano: There are some videos out there where they pretty explicitly said that the game (NMS) would have multiplayer (I don`t have a link, but it`s somwhere in the "does this game have multiplayer thread"). The exact nature of what it would be changed from interview to interview, but they pretty much promised at least a Journey style of multiplayer where you can see other players. So I think you were actually correct in your statement.

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#23  Edited By JamMasterMango

@odinsmana said:

@captain_insano: There are some videos out there where they pretty explicitly said that the game (NMS) would have multiplayer (I don`t have a link, but it`s somwhere in the "does this game have multiplayer thread"). The exact nature of what it would be changed from interview to interview, but they pretty much promised at least a Journey style of multiplayer where you can see other players. So I think you were actually correct in your statement.

As much as I admire Sean Murray's humbleness and passion to create the game he originally envisioned, I can not deny the hilarity of this video.

Loading Video...

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BojackHorseman

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This fantastic scene from 500 Days of Summer pretty much sums up my feelings about No Man's Sky. On a somewhat unrelated note, man this is a fantastic scene. Pretty much the entire movie really hits me in all the right places, but this part in particular.

Loading Video...

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Captain_Insano

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#25  Edited By Captain_Insano

No Man's Sky is Zooey Deschanel?

I liked 500 Days of Summer, but really hate the ending: "I'm Autumn" Arggggh! Cringe!

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Hayt

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#26  Edited By Hayt

Being extremely cynical is pretty good defensive measure for most things these days.

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Just wanted to add that MediEvil is great and somebody should get Sony to make another one.

I like getting excited for games, it's fun. Skepticism can be helpful but I feel like I've got a pretty good grasp on what games I will and won't like at this point. Was pretty sure I'd like No Man's Sky for what it was as it approached release and having played it 30 or so hours, yeah I'm pretty into it.

It kinda means I end up buying less games actually, but I don't really remember a time I ended up with a game I just could not stand as a result, some PS Plus games aside.

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Captain_Insano

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@generalwalnut: MediEvil kind of supports my point about expectation v reality. I'm sure it's great, but it wasn't what I expected and didn't live up to my hype (that is in no way MediEvil's fault, it's solely the fault of my dumb teenage self and my dumb mate who couldn't describe games properly).

I buy less games but it's more because I have less time (and now I spend more money on Board Games, which has it's own issues of expectation v reality(. I still buy a lot because I like to be involved in the general conversation and like to check out what is going on. Even from the 2014 trailer of NMS I knew it wasn't for me so I haven't gone after it. The problem with hype is that people hype themselves up to a point which is not really achievable. I just have issues with devs or their PR 'promising' or hinting at the unachievable as 'this is what the game is actually like'. I suppose that's the point of advertising, but I think some games more than others have directly misled people. NMS is the most recent example (only from the buzz I've heard) but is by no means the most egregious.