#1 Posted by StarFoxA (5123 posts) -

So this year appears to be the return of the fighting game. I would love to play them, but I am terrible at them. What is a good beginner fighting game?

#2 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -

Honestly, any of them. It's just like FPS games, once you get the basic core skills down, you can pick up any fighting game and throw down a few moves at least, especially 2D ones, the quarter circle motion for example is almost as universal as pulling the trigger to fire. I would suggest any 2D fighter to begin with seeing as those are the most popular, the ones seeing the most attention right now, and the ones that share the most in common.


Grab yourself SFIV, HD Remix, or the upcoming Marvel vs Capcom 2 and start plugging away, if you get frustrated, just remember the first time you ever played *insert genre here* and how weird and new that was at the time, and how long it took you to get used to. Also if possible have a controller standing by with a decent d-pad.

Edit: A word of warning if you get MvC though, it's quite a lot speedier than other fighters and has a huge focus on massively flashy combos and damage, and is completely OTT. But the core skills are still there. Eventually you'll be pickup up fighters and throwing off odd moves without even looking at the manuals.
#3 Posted by Out_On_Bail (1545 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
 Also if possible have a controller standing by with a decent d-pad.
I think this is the most important piece of advice there is when concerning fighting games. If you can, get a fighting game for the PS3- unless you have a good d-pad 360 controller. The d-pad on the PS3 is optimal for fighting games, not so much on the 360.  Of course this is subjective, but in my humble opinion it's the truth.
#4 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Out_On_Bail said:
" @The_A_Drain said:
 Also if possible have a controller standing by with a decent d-pad.
I think this is the most important piece of advice there is when concerning fighting games. If you can, get a fighting game for the PS3- unless you have a good d-pad 360 controller. The d-pad on the PS3 is optimal for fighting games, not so much on the 360.  Of course this is subjective, but in my humble opinion it's the truth.
"
I quite agree, the PS2 style d-pad is the better of the 2 (I say PS2 because it's ever so slightly smaller than the PS1 pad, they arent quite all the same, the PS1 pad will rip your thumb to shreds) although I don't think it's quite the best, it's definately the best of the two by a HUGE margin.

Edit: On that note, expect to suffer a couple of blisters. It will toughen you up though ;)
#5 Posted by Video_Game_King (34600 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" Honestly, any of them.
Not exactly. Obviously, games like Guilty Gear and BlazBue aren't for gamers trying to enter the genre.
#6 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
" @The_A_Drain said:
" Honestly, any of them.
Not exactly. Obviously, games like Guilty Gear and BlazBue aren't for gamers trying to enter the genre. "
I havn't played BlazBlue, but honestly Guilty Gear still uses majority standard motions. QCF's, HCFs, QC and HCBs etc, sure there is dashing and stuff but plenty of games have that too. I wouldn't reccomend Guilty Gear for a beginner, but I wouldn't reccomend they expressly avoid it either. I guess I just forgot about them, stupid BlazBlue not being available here > :(
#7 Posted by Linkyshinks (9881 posts) -

I would suggest Street Fighter Collection, Alpha or Collection, not a Vs game just yet. Street Fighter 4 is accessible, it works in two ways, to appeal to beginners, and those who seek a decent degree of depth from a fighter...Street Fighter 3 is still the finest for that.

#8 Posted by Video_Game_King (34600 posts) -
@The_A_Drain said:
" @Video_Game_King said:
" @The_A_Drain said:
" Honestly, any of them.
Not exactly. Obviously, games like Guilty Gear and BlazBue aren't for gamers trying to enter the genre. "
I havn't played BlazBlue, but honestly Guilty Gear still uses majority standard motions. QCF's, HCFs, QC and HCBs etc, sure there is dashing and stuff but plenty of games have that too. I wouldn't reccomend Guilty Gear for a beginner, but I wouldn't reccomend they expressly avoid it either. I guess I just forgot about them, stupid BlazBlue not being available here > :(
"
I haven't played BlazBlue, either (I based my statement on the Quick Look), but while GG does have the usual stuff, it also has instant death moves. Enough said. (It's a good game, just one that you shouldn't use as an entry game.)
#9 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Video_Game_King:

True, but aside from the instant death-yness, they activate mostly the same as Ultras, that style of move, double QCF's etc. They just happen to end the match quicker :P

I agree with you, but I don't think it would be all that devistating to start with a Guilty Gear style game. You'd still learn more of the key transferable skills than you would playing say, Tekken where everything is slower, and much more combo focused.

Although actually, I would reccomend something with a charge character, that's a vital skill to learn and for some reason people seem to find it tricky *shrug* but yeah, basicly I would recomend a Street Fighter (other than 3, and avoid the EX series) or a KoF. Maybe not Garou: MoTW though it's a little more complex.
#10 Posted by LiquidPrince (15606 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:
" So this year appears to be the return of the fighting game. I would love to play them, but I am terrible at them. What is a good beginner fighting game? "
Street Fighter is easily the most addicting so why not start with that.
#11 Posted by Linkyshinks (9881 posts) -

Samurai Shodown 2, while weapons based, would help to hone some good skills.

#12 Posted by KidVelasco (50 posts) -

Since you're a beginner at fighting games, I would recommend the Capcom games (e.g HD Remix, Street Fighter IV, 3rd Strike, Alpha 3, etc)

#13 Posted by Black_Rose (7785 posts) -

Smash Bros. Brwl is not a classic fighting game but it's a great one for begginers and experienced players. Also Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix.

#14 Posted by MrGetBonus (781 posts) -

Having only really played SF4, MvC2, and BlazBlue.....I'd say BlazBlue was the easiest to get in to. You'll still get smashed if you're a noob but at least there's a "do something cool" button if you're not so good with the inputs or combos yet.

#15 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -

Don't get SF4 unless you want to get a Joystick.

I think a lot of people find the 6 button configuration baffling, no matter how Capcom markets the game as casual friendly. A regular controller just confuses the matter even more.


I think 3D fighters in general are easier to get into, just because the fact that you generally don't focus a lot on executing moves, but just focusing on pressing buttons in succession.

(2D= Forward->Down->Forward->Punch=Shoryuken, 3D= L Punch->H Punch -> H Kick= 3 hit combo)

Of course I'm thinking Tekken at the moment, Soul Calibur plays a bit differently but its the same idea, less focus on execution more focus on pressing the buttons.

I think Tekken is probably the easiest, but if you insist on a 2D fighter, SNK's 4 button arrangement makes their games a bit simple to play. XBLA seems to have gotten em recently so I'd check those if you have a 360.


#16 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@animateria:

I disagree, if you teach someone the dragon punch motion, and the fireball motion, they can pick up the huge majority of other fighting games. Learning what are often character specific not just game specific combos is not a good way to get into fighters. That one game perhaps, but overall not to much.

Besides, forward, down forward is not DP motion, and pressing in such a manner will not result in a DP either, you have to roll the pad smoothly from forward, to down, to downforward(diagonal)

I honestly don't know if the 6 button layout baffles people, I mean what's so difficult about punch and kick, and 3 different strengths thereof?

If I was going to force a 3D fighter one someone it would be Soul Calibur 2 and nothing else. I honestly don't feel you would learna ny transferable skills from being introduced to a 3D fighter off the bat, combo memorization would just stunt his ability to learn tactics and strategy. Whereas learning 2 simple motions, DP and fireball gives him essentially access to something like 20 different 2D fighters to start enjoying.
#17 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -
@The_A_Drain:

I guess I thought a forward down forward implied a rolling motion. Cause a downforward would naturally be included in the motion. Anyways...

3 button to Ultra, LP+LK, MP+MK, I found annoying when using the pad. (Then again I have a Stick so I don't bother with that much often.)

Triggers as buttons aren't ideal either. I confuse my HK to my HP on a pad every time. And the two left triggers are annoying cause I want my left hand to focus on d-pad motions.

I think 6 buttons is too much on a pad that has 4 buttons on the face. It gets confusing. On a Stick its fine but I assume someone new to a fighting game isn't going to buy a stick.

Maybe I'm getting too hung up on the controller, SF4 does have a lot of introductory challenges that teach newbies the basics.
#18 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@animateria:

I agree with every point, but unfortunately a controller is the only method for newbies at the moment, and on a PS3 bad it's not so bad, although the new trigger is a bitch.
#19 Posted by BlameTheGame (75 posts) -

Street fighter, any. Those are good beginner ones.

#20 Posted by King9999 (604 posts) -
@StarFoxA said:
" So this year appears to be the return of the fighting game. I would love to play them, but I am terrible at them. What is a good beginner fighting game? "
I would start with Street Fighter HD Remix.  My reason?  SF2 is the game that started the fighting game craze in the first place.  The game is basic compared to other games because there aren't any subsystems to learn.  All you have is your character and a super combo meter, that's it.  Use HD Remix to learn how to do combos, mind games, reversals, etc.  Once you're good enough with HD Remix, move on to Street Fighter 4.

Guilty Gear is a good game, but I would stay away from that game if you're only a beginner.  There's too much to take in all at once, plus the game's speed might overwhelm you.  Blazblue is slower-paced, plus it has a "do a cool move" button like someone else said.  It has a lot of subsystems though, so it might not be for you until you're more comfortable with fighting games.
#21 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -
@The_A_Drain: Those $4.99 Plastic trigger attachments solve a bit of the problems I had with the PS3 controller but it still isn't a PS2 controller that's for sure. :P
#22 Posted by Hailinel (22708 posts) -

The barrier for entry in fighting games is about even across the genre, I'd say.  Some are more accommodating to newcomers than others, but it takes effort no matter what game you decide to start with.   Honestly, I'd recommend BlazBlue over Street Fighter IV since I think it's a better game, but really, the choice is more of a toss-up.

Online
#23 Posted by OwnlyUzinWonHan (1477 posts) -

I'd go UMK3 to get the ability to do special moves regularly first (It's also only $5), then HD Remix, then SFIV.

#24 Posted by JJOR64 (18783 posts) -

I recommend Street Fighter IV.  It's fun, easy to play, and has lots of depth if you want to take it to an advance level.

#25 Posted by C2C (831 posts) -

I recommend Street Fighter 2 (any of them) or Street Fighter 4.  Most other fighters add too many other features for a beginner.  This is of course if you want to get into 2D fighting games,

If you want to get into 3D fighing games I'd recomend Tekken 3 or 5.  You could also wait for 6,

#26 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@animateria said:
"@The_A_Drain: Those $4.99 Plastic trigger attachments solve a bit of the problems I had with the PS3 controller but it still isn't a PS2 controller that's for sure. :P"

Yeah it's a shame, is there no way you can use a PS2 controller with them? I dont have a PS3 so I don't know if you can.

Also, I don't mean to start any kind of flamewar god knows i've been in enough of them, but i'll say the same thing about UMK3 I said about 3D fighters, and i'll add that it's a novelty and nothing more, you won't learn anything about fighters from playing it, and it plays very differently from other fighters. Much more rigidly, it's not very smooth at all, and again it focuses on memorising lengthy, specific combos rather than allowing experimentation, and it won't teach to any skills that are transferable. It does not use quarter or half circle motions for example, it uses odd tapping motions like back, back, down and so on.

It's great fun for $5 and I even have it myself and played quite a bit of it, I like MK for it's style, but as a fighting game it's even more of a joke than some other the modern 3D fighters. I mean, look at the arcade layout it uses :S

#27 Posted by animateria (3252 posts) -
@The_A_Drain:

Mortal Kombat a serious 2D fighter?

I don't think anyone can be serious about saying that MK is a serious fighter when its far from being serious.

Seriously...


3D fighters... Hrm I enjoy SC4 casually. Tekken 5 DR is loads of fun. Played VF4 a bit at my friends house, it was fun, but I got no real opinion on it. Was going to pick up a VF5 used copy... probably will someday. (Though PS3 version is missing online or something?)

Easier for non-fighting game players to just mess around with. I don't need to teach em how to execute moves, just tell em to look at combo list and try to mash buttons in those orders. Overall they do seem more simple to me as well.


So whats the run down on SNK fighters in your opinion (more about KOF, but you can add the others)? I typically put KOF a bit lower tiered than SF or even GGXX (BB? I haven't touched it. The constant yapping annoys the hell out of me). Enjoy them a lot, but I don't think they are that great especially after the golden years of 98-2k. Love the 4 button set up though... Works well with a pad. :P

I think its their need to print out a new one every year that dilutes their quality. And honestly, I'm not interested in KOF12 because I know KOF 13 will probably add the missing characters. SNK pretty much deliberately didn't put them in the game to sell KOF13 in my opinion.
#28 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@animateria:

Personally I absolutely hate them, I just don't get on with any SNK fighters other than Samurai Showdown. But from a beginner perspective imo they are just as good as Street Fighter, you can learn a lot of the core principals for other fighters and it has apretty decent flow to it i'd highly reccomend them to anyone, I just happen to dislike them.
#29 Posted by Shadow (4966 posts) -

There is no good beginning one.  Just buy the one you really want more than any others, and practice on that.

#30 Posted by simon1 (129 posts) -

Fighting games are like RTS games to me.  What i mean is that now and again i have a desire to play one and once i do, i just don't find it interesting enough.  Maybe it's because I think i need to learn a lot of moves or think a lot on my feet.  Over the years i've tried loads of fighting and rts games and still i don't learn my lesson.  It was only a few months ago i got SF4 and Halo Wars, both good games but just got bored quickly.  Again, my problem not the games.

I think i'll just stick to what i really enjoy which is fps, sports and driving games :-)
#31 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@simon1:

See I have the same problem with sports and driving games haha :D i'll play a sports game for maybe a couple hours then that's all the fun i'm going to get out of it for another few months or so. Driving games last a little longer, but usually only until I get comfortable enough to start looking for achievements, then I realise how insane it is to drift for 1000 metres, or get platinum medals in everything and give up lol.
#32 Posted by Bigandtasty (3202 posts) -

If you want a relatively inexpensive and well-rounded start, HD Remix is good...although I'm guessing the online skill isn't so friendly now that SFIV is out.

#33 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Bigandtasty:

It's pretty brutal, but the level is a bit all over the place. I'm kind of in the middle, so I either own everyone or get my ass kicked. But theres enough fireball spammers and begginers to give a beginner a run for his money. It was the 33% off dealio a few weeks ago so theres been an influx of new players so it's not that bad at the moment for begginers. But there are people out there who will just destroy you, you just have to keep getting games until you get someone of the same skill level as you.
#34 Posted by Atlas (2400 posts) -

I recommend one 2D fighter and one 3D fighter. Street Fighter IV is a great place to start with, and either Soulcalibur IV or Virtua Fighter 5 are great 3D fighting games. Virtua Fighter is much less friendly to beginners, but purists will argue that is much more of a real fighting game than Soulcalibur, which is flashier, faster and crazier, but in my humble opinion, just as much fun, if not more.

Yeah, I'd go with Street Fighter and Soulcalibur.

#35 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Atlas:

I'd reccomend SC 2 over IV to be honest, the online is completely unplayable on IV and when you do get a half decent match someone is using one of the awfully unbalanced characters, whereas the CPU AI is aight on SC2 for either PS2 or Gamecube (best versions) so if you can i'd go with SCII if you are gonna choose a 3D fighter. I don't know what purists you are talking about, but I don't know one single person who would argue VF is a 'more real' fighting game than Soul Calibur.

Ultimately, go with whatever you want StarFoxA :) People are just going to argue back and forth all day about which one is best, but it's like getting into an FPS for the very first time ever, ultimately they all share enough similarities that you can start with any of them.
#36 Edited by PenguinDust (12414 posts) -

I suck at fighters, although I've been playing them for years.  I recommend you test your tolerance for the genre first with a 3D fighter instead of a 2D on.  2D fighters take very precise timing while in most 3D ones, proper positioning can give you some leeway with your attacks/defense actions.  It's also much easier to accomplish (let alone perfect) your moves in a 2D fighter with a fight-stick.  These can be reasonably cheap but you get what you pay for.  A bad stick will quickly break or feel sluggish.  That won't help you enjoy the genre either.  However, you can get along with just your standard controller in a 3D fighter although you may want to reassign some of the buttons.  Players who are serious about the genre tend to gravitate towards 2D fighters, but if you just want to beat up your friends or random strangers online then 3D would probably be the way to go.  You can get by just button-mashing in Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur and Tekken, although Virtua Fighter is much harder.  I'm not going to tell which of those are the best (i'm sure others will or have already) but I know that I had the easiest time with DOA then Soul Calibur, then Tekken (been a while for this franchise) and little success with Virtua Fighter.  Of course, like I said.  I suck at these games. 

#37 Posted by Atlas (2400 posts) -
@The_A_Drain: I kinda assumed he would want a fighting game from this generation. I go back and forth over whether I think SC2 or SC4 is better, because they're both amazing. I would refute your comment that the online is broken though. Sure, I've gotten into a few laggy matches, but most of them are fine. And it's not hard to beat unbalanced characters if you know what you're doing against them. I rarely lose to Yoda these days. But yeah, there are issues with SC4, but I think the character creation system, gorgeous graphics, and solid online make up for that. Then again, SC2 probably has the best storytelling of any fighting game I've played yet.

If you own a Gamecube, definitely go hunt down a copy of SC2, because it's probably hella cheap. If not, SC4 is still an excellent fighting game.
#38 Posted by Lind_L_Taylor (3960 posts) -

How about Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe?

#39 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Atlas said:
"@The_A_Drain: I kinda assumed he would want a fighting game from this generation. I go back and forth over whether I think SC2 or SC4 is better, because they're both amazing. I would refute your comment that the online is broken though. Sure, I've gotten into a few laggy matches, but most of them are fine. And it's not hard to beat unbalanced characters if you know what you're doing against them. I rarely lose to Yoda these days. But yeah, there are issues with SC4, but I think the character creation system, gorgeous graphics, and solid online make up for that. Then again, SC2 probably has the best storytelling of any fighting game I've played yet.If you own a Gamecube, definitely go hunt down a copy of SC2, because it's probably hella cheap. If not, SC4 is still an excellent fighting game. "

Yoda? Yoda's weaksauce lol. I'm talking about stupid lizardman shenanigans (ever tried getting out of that stupid low attack he does? Admittedly I only played against the guy for about 30 matches, but the only attack I could even find that was fast enough to beat him was mitsurugi's standard vertical slash, anything else was too slow even jumping) not to mention some of the ass-backward things other characters can do. As for lag, I suppose it depends wholly on your location but I have never ever experienced even one match where lag was not noticable. It's partly why the game is broken, the flaws with the games balance are magnified tenfold if even a small amount of lag is present.

But aside from that, I am just of the opinion that SC2 is a much better implemented, much more balanced and well rounded fighter than SCIV. And imo graphically it still looks fantastic.

SC4 is good I certainly enjoyed it, but I feel the need to warn against the tremendously bad (in my experience at least) online, and the poorly balanced characters.
#40 Edited by Atlas (2400 posts) -

@Lind_L_Taylor said:

"How about Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe?"


How about no. I'd only recommend that game to people who are really into Mortal Kombat already or are really into DC comics or DC fiction. It's no more accessible than Tekken or Soulcalibur, and it has one of the most broken rosters you will ever find. Online's not that much good either. Don't believe Jeff's fanboy 5-star review. He loved it because he's a hardcore MK fan and a hardcore fighting game fan. If you're not, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

#41 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Atlas said:
"

@Lind_L_Taylor said:

"How about Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe?"


How about no. I'd only recommend that game to people who are really into Mortal Kombat already or are really into DC comics or DC fiction. It's no more accessible than Tekken or Soulcalibur, and it has one of the most broken rosters you will ever find. Online's not that much good either. Don't believe Jeff's fanboy 5-star review. He loved it because he's a hardcore MK fan and a hardcore fighting game fan. If you're not, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

"

He loved it because it had heaps of style and a few clever uses of the DC universe and whatnot, and it was a lot of fun. I agree to a point, but as a serious fighting game it's the biggest joke since, well, it's the biggest joke in the genre. It's totally and utterly broken, not balanced in the slightest, the interactive environments and the klose kombat system are stupid, and offer no actual strategy, and the game is ridiculously focused on memorising lengthy combos in order to actuall get anywhere. On top of that it's the jerkiest and least smooth fighter I think i've played since Rise of the Robots or Ballz 3D. I would expect any core, let alone hardcore, fighting game fans to dislike as a serious fighter.

But if you're just looking for a laugh, or some MK style or DC characters fighting each other I wouldn't disagree with a 5 star review for a second. But if you're looking for a competitive game with mutliplayer that actually stands up after more than just a few evenings, you want to steer well clear of this. Like your life depended on it.
#42 Posted by Atlas (2400 posts) -
@The_A_Drain: Maybe, but if you want to get into fighting games, I certainly don't think MKvsDC is the right place to start. Sure, you can mess around and have fun, and yeah it has some positive attributes, but as a fighting game, and as a game to get people hooked into fighting games, I'd recommend it as much as I would recommend Smash Bros. Brawl, which is not at all. Objectively, I think Jeff should have given that game four stars, because it does have it's upsides. Subjectively, I'd give it three, or maybe even two.

MKvsDC is a game everybody should rent, but nobody, except the most die-hard of Mortal Kombat and DC comics fans, should own. If you want a fighting game you'd want to own and sink a lot of time into, I go back to saying Street Fighter and Soulcalibur.
#43 Posted by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Atlas:

I'm not going to tell someone how many stars they should give it, that's just opinion and I support other peoples (even though it may not seem like it at times! :D)

But I completely agree that I would not reccomend it as anything more than some fun, I certainly would not even think about reccomending it to someone as a serious fighter, especially not as a representative of the genre to a beginner that's outright irresponsible in my eyes. It would be like sending your retard cousin as your countries ambassador imo.
#44 Edited by Atlas (2400 posts) -

I wonder if there will ever again be a fighting game thread on Giant Bomb that doesn't end with me and The_A_Drain having a duologue. :P

And yeah, I totally support other people's opinions, or at least I try to, but I have very strong opinions of my own. I did try and be objective by saying he should have given the game 4 stars, even though I'd score it lower, partly because 4 stars would be more in keeping with what other reviewers gave it. But where would the fun be if every reviewer thought the same way and gave the same scores. I'm just saying that Jeff's MKvsDC was a review where he was too subjective, especially considering Soulcalibur IV got three stars. Reviews are supposed to strike a balance between the subjective and the objective. There was no balance in either of those reviews. Well, maybe Soulcalibur, because I'm sure if Jeff was going to be completely subjective he'd have given Soulcalibur one star. Actually if he'd have done that, he'd have never written an MKvsDC review because I would have murdered him because dammit Soulcalibur is a five star game!

Wow, I really went off topic there, didn't I? Sorry. So back to the OP, yeah, I've said it before and I'll say it again; Street Fighter and Soulcalibur.

#45 Edited by The_A_Drain (3910 posts) -
@Atlas:

There will, although it will only be one other thing, me and Kou_Leifou arguing about Street Fighter 3 or SNK fighters lol. Which reminds me,  I want more Dudley    D:

Opinions on the reviews are, as you said, another topic entirely. I feel ultimately the rating sould reflect more subjective than objective, the objective stuff like bugs, UI interface, graphic quality etc should be reflected in the text. If they are reflected in the score, imo the score means nothing anymore. The score should be entirely dependant on how much someone enjoyed the game personally imo.
#46 Posted by Lind_L_Taylor (3960 posts) -
@Atlas said:
"

@Lind_L_Taylor said:

"How about Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe?"


How about no. I'd only recommend that game to people who are really into Mortal Kombat already or are really into DC comics or DC fiction. It's no more accessible than Tekken or Soulcalibur, and it has one of the most broken rosters you will ever find. Online's not that much good either. Don't believe Jeff's fanboy 5-star review. He loved it because he's a hardcore MK fan and a hardcore fighting game fan. If you're not, I wouldn't go anywhere near it.

"
I like DC & Elseworld, but if the game play sucks, I don't know if liking DC is a good enough reason to own it.