Posted by crithon (3126 posts) -

I must confess I was one of those fanboys who was in denial over Metal Gear Solid 4's story. Blinded by the enthusiasm over the release I'd be happy anything with just the name MGS4 on it. Still 4 years passed by, and I'll watch the cinematics and enjoy parts of the story here and there. But it's not till the achievement update where I started to notice the glaring problems of the story.

PRESS X NOW!

Well this is just one of the 34 trophies, but it's a gold trophy so it's level of important is pretty significant. I honestly thought I could achievement, I lost count how many times I played the game past 30 times. But around the second act I couldn't take it, I would sit through every single cinema, and I'd just be anxious for the X button to pop up. By act two, with the exposition scenes with Naomi Hunter, I'd start to grow restless and start just looking at random items in my living room, just doing anything to keep myself entertained. Then I'd notice I'd miss my chance and press the button and then just move on with the game. By the time act 5 happened I caved in and seeked for a FAQ on where the flashbacks happened.

The biggest problem is a lot of the melodrama and more somber tones of MGS4 are really dragged on. There is a purpose for them, Snake is now dying, growing super old and Fox Die is transforming him into a walking bomb. The big cancer scene is any movie isn't going to get people to come out of the wood works, but still it's handled pretty horrible with extended dialog lots of made up mumbo jumbo dialog and then at the end the explaination for everything is ...... NANOMACHINES. It's just unsatisfying to watch.

these were the moments I wanted to quit on the game

MGS4 to me comes off as a Cult film your having difficult to understand the fandom over. Which is odd because I'm in that fan club, and yes, MGS4 could easily come off as cult film, old dudes stabbing one another with syringe in neck, crazy metal gear on metal gear violence, flashbacks of PS1 era graphics, etc. And that's why I eat it up, it's this level of crazy that I'd love to think is cool.

I've been going through cult cinema and there are awkward films, films with amazing one scene but the rest seems stiff and lifeless. An excellent example is Mario Bava's Danger Diabolik, super sexy crime film with some pretty terrible scenes stitching the film together. But the film has style, so much style it makes James Bond look boring. But it's beloved and gets immunity because of it's charms and not of it's flaws. But also other italian films like Don't Torture the Duckling, gets praised as a suspenseful Luici thriller but it's nothing more then a schlocky exploitation film.

I love this film, flaws and all

MGS4 does have high ambitions but seems to be bloated with cinemas for about anything. These scenes are handled with double in hopes to sound clever end up just wasting the time of the viewer. Actually Dialog isn't really MGS4's best suit, in fact seeing Snake just ache his way through the game is effective enough. But we still get awkward moments of "I'm going to make a smoking joke, but it falls flat." And really growing old is an excellent scene in the PS1 MGS1 flashback scene. It plays out pretty much out of nostalgia, but then when faced with reality of how the controls and graphics have aged compared today, then it's true where you'd like to see how the game to turn out. And Act 4 being played out all in Shadow Moses is a brilliant moment that I do feel it's worth playing through the game.

But earlier last year MGS HD Collections was released, now while MGS2 and MGS3 were bloated in story and some horrible scenes, I'd prefer those games over MGS4. Yes, Rose's dialog "Your heart was empty like your room" do rank in the worst dialog I've ever seen, but I do think it's still much more enjoyable experience then MGS4's prolonged exposition leading to nothing remarkable. MGS3 had the bizarre Scientists who all DIE so there's no point in giving them over 30 minute long cinemas, but still I'd play MGS3 a million times over. And Peace Walker, a game which took the BEST IDEA EVER, and AXED ALL THE DIALOG OUT in favor of small bite sized sneaking missions.

I would choose MGS2 over MGS4

Is MGS4 the worst game ever? Oh god no. It's still a remarkable commentary on private military, information wars, shadow government, conspiracy theory, the future of prosthetic limbs, etc. It opens the door for discussion, and it does it better then lets say Modern Warfare which is actually very enjoyable but makes everything feel like monster closets and turret sequences. In MGS4 the moment you have a giant shoot out, Snake will just vomit in disgust over himself enjoying the killing which renders him unplayable. And that's why I've loved the MGS series, since the PS1 game when the dogs peed on snake's box, or when Snake has the Box conversations. Just little touches like that in an overly pretentious narrative by an auteur who's in serious need of an editor.

I'm still halfway through this achievement, but I do feel I'm out of this denial, and yeah, MGS4 has a terrible story. AWESOME OLD DUDES STABBING ONE ANOTHER IN THE NECK.

#1 Posted by crithon (3126 posts) -

I must confess I was one of those fanboys who was in denial over Metal Gear Solid 4's story. Blinded by the enthusiasm over the release I'd be happy anything with just the name MGS4 on it. Still 4 years passed by, and I'll watch the cinematics and enjoy parts of the story here and there. But it's not till the achievement update where I started to notice the glaring problems of the story.

PRESS X NOW!

Well this is just one of the 34 trophies, but it's a gold trophy so it's level of important is pretty significant. I honestly thought I could achievement, I lost count how many times I played the game past 30 times. But around the second act I couldn't take it, I would sit through every single cinema, and I'd just be anxious for the X button to pop up. By act two, with the exposition scenes with Naomi Hunter, I'd start to grow restless and start just looking at random items in my living room, just doing anything to keep myself entertained. Then I'd notice I'd miss my chance and press the button and then just move on with the game. By the time act 5 happened I caved in and seeked for a FAQ on where the flashbacks happened.

The biggest problem is a lot of the melodrama and more somber tones of MGS4 are really dragged on. There is a purpose for them, Snake is now dying, growing super old and Fox Die is transforming him into a walking bomb. The big cancer scene is any movie isn't going to get people to come out of the wood works, but still it's handled pretty horrible with extended dialog lots of made up mumbo jumbo dialog and then at the end the explaination for everything is ...... NANOMACHINES. It's just unsatisfying to watch.

these were the moments I wanted to quit on the game

MGS4 to me comes off as a Cult film your having difficult to understand the fandom over. Which is odd because I'm in that fan club, and yes, MGS4 could easily come off as cult film, old dudes stabbing one another with syringe in neck, crazy metal gear on metal gear violence, flashbacks of PS1 era graphics, etc. And that's why I eat it up, it's this level of crazy that I'd love to think is cool.

I've been going through cult cinema and there are awkward films, films with amazing one scene but the rest seems stiff and lifeless. An excellent example is Mario Bava's Danger Diabolik, super sexy crime film with some pretty terrible scenes stitching the film together. But the film has style, so much style it makes James Bond look boring. But it's beloved and gets immunity because of it's charms and not of it's flaws. But also other italian films like Don't Torture the Duckling, gets praised as a suspenseful Luici thriller but it's nothing more then a schlocky exploitation film.

I love this film, flaws and all

MGS4 does have high ambitions but seems to be bloated with cinemas for about anything. These scenes are handled with double in hopes to sound clever end up just wasting the time of the viewer. Actually Dialog isn't really MGS4's best suit, in fact seeing Snake just ache his way through the game is effective enough. But we still get awkward moments of "I'm going to make a smoking joke, but it falls flat." And really growing old is an excellent scene in the PS1 MGS1 flashback scene. It plays out pretty much out of nostalgia, but then when faced with reality of how the controls and graphics have aged compared today, then it's true where you'd like to see how the game to turn out. And Act 4 being played out all in Shadow Moses is a brilliant moment that I do feel it's worth playing through the game.

But earlier last year MGS HD Collections was released, now while MGS2 and MGS3 were bloated in story and some horrible scenes, I'd prefer those games over MGS4. Yes, Rose's dialog "Your heart was empty like your room" do rank in the worst dialog I've ever seen, but I do think it's still much more enjoyable experience then MGS4's prolonged exposition leading to nothing remarkable. MGS3 had the bizarre Scientists who all DIE so there's no point in giving them over 30 minute long cinemas, but still I'd play MGS3 a million times over. And Peace Walker, a game which took the BEST IDEA EVER, and AXED ALL THE DIALOG OUT in favor of small bite sized sneaking missions.

I would choose MGS2 over MGS4

Is MGS4 the worst game ever? Oh god no. It's still a remarkable commentary on private military, information wars, shadow government, conspiracy theory, the future of prosthetic limbs, etc. It opens the door for discussion, and it does it better then lets say Modern Warfare which is actually very enjoyable but makes everything feel like monster closets and turret sequences. In MGS4 the moment you have a giant shoot out, Snake will just vomit in disgust over himself enjoying the killing which renders him unplayable. And that's why I've loved the MGS series, since the PS1 game when the dogs peed on snake's box, or when Snake has the Box conversations. Just little touches like that in an overly pretentious narrative by an auteur who's in serious need of an editor.

I'm still halfway through this achievement, but I do feel I'm out of this denial, and yeah, MGS4 has a terrible story. AWESOME OLD DUDES STABBING ONE ANOTHER IN THE NECK.

#2 Posted by yoshisaur (2701 posts) -

I could never, honestly, get wrapped into MGS4's story. I bought a PS3 solely for the game, but quit when I got to the first sequence where there were little robot dogs in a warehouse rummaging around. Granted this was my first real experience with the series, so I cannot really attest to the previous games. It took way too many liberties for me when it comes to outright far-fetched design (story), and it was even worse when I could see it's ultimate potential. It's one of the first games that I can think of that completely contradict my opinion on that games need more cinematics.

#3 Posted by crithon (3126 posts) -

@ck1nd: first time. Yikes.... hehe, wished you were there for the angry reactions from MGS2 introduction of Raiden. Oh the whole series is pretty much just bad Mexican Telanovela, but in that AWESOME Bad Mexican Telanovela. With men with eyeliners, talking puppets and then hot chicks wrestling whipping their hair. But the analogy of a Cult film you don't get but everyone likes is what I wanted to say. And I think you kinda know what I'm saying.

#4 Posted by yoshisaur (2701 posts) -

@crithon: I kind of do, actually. Also, when I said first true," I mean't that it was the first one I've played. I actually watched a friend beat MGS2: Sons of Patriots (SP?) for the Xbox from start to finish and it was a fun experience.

#5 Posted by crithon (3126 posts) -

@ck1nd: ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, but even me as a fan of all the games even the MSX ones, part 4 is way too long on it's cinemas

#6 Posted by yoshisaur (2701 posts) -

@crithon: I agree. I wonder if maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm from the west and that form of cinematical experience is a bit more tolerable or widely accepted in the coastal origin of it's developers. I loved the Lord of the Rings movies, but many that I have spoken to express their negativity towards it's length and style. Who knows? I do, however, know that the team behind Metal Gear Solid has one hell of an imagination and I can give them loads of credit for delivering with that regardless of it's receiving.

#7 Posted by charlie_victor_bravo (988 posts) -

I could get past the horrible written story, long cutscenes, and clunky gameplay if it was paced better. I tried to replay the game for trophies but whole experience was cutscene after cutscene, followed by few second short gameplay moments. There was even load screens to another cutscenes AND back between all of this.

MGS4 is and always was a bad videogame.

#8 Posted by crithon (3126 posts) -

@charlie_victor_bravo: I think I got the achievement after the third time replaying it. While reading 3 different faqs to know which achievement is what. When I got it I was like "FUCK THIS!" then skipped everything. I somewhat wanted to go back for for more achievements but nah, I haven't loaded the game in a while. I enjoyed the whole South America and Shadow Moses chapters, but man I'm in serious fanboy denial.

#9 Posted by ExplodeMode (852 posts) -

I don't think he particularly wants a ton of dialogue, I think he just likes to play with cut-scenes and the medium and feels like there has to be dialogue happening while he does that. He's way into film and it shows in his presentation of those scenes, which is really far above most games. Because, even though they don't really have physical cameras and have unlimited possibilities, I don't think other developers often think about that stuff.

#10 Posted by VichusSmith (72 posts) -

@ck1nd: Have you played the previous games now, and what made you want to play the 4th game in a series?

#11 Posted by yoshisaur (2701 posts) -

@VichusSmith said:

@ck1nd: Have you played the previous games now, and what made you want to play the 4th game in a series?

I don't have the ability to play any of the previous titles at the moment, so unfortunately, no. When the 4th game was releasing, I believe I was around the age of 15 or 16. It was the time in my life where cinematical experiences, emotional situations, and raw-graphical power got me excited for future titles. I saw the trailers and immediately felt interest in the movie-like experience it was portraying. It was also a great benchmark to prove why buying a PS3 was a good idea for my father, hehe.

#12 Posted by VichusSmith (72 posts) -

@ck1nd: Oh, no more PS3. :(