#151 Posted by FluxWaveZ (19388 posts) -

Now AmericanNinja is a Giant Bomb superstar!

#152 Posted by xMrSunshine (364 posts) -
#153 Posted by iAmJohn (6134 posts) -

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

How is this in any way a personal attack? Patrick wrote an article about the response to yesterday's story, quoted a relevant comment from said story, and talked about how it represented what he thought was a wrong mindset. He didn't personally attack the guy; he didn't even say anything remotely insulting about the guy or even mention him by name or in any way after posting the comment. You people are stretching to the extreme.

#154 Posted by zeekthegeek (389 posts) -

Once again wanting to vomit at some of the entitled, privileged shitposting going on here. Especially when I see it from people i've played games with. Makes me want to just avoid Giant Bomb as a community entirely and just enjoy the videos.

#155 Posted by Bollard (5844 posts) -

I don't agree with you calling out someone by name. I would like to think GiantBomb is a mature community that won't go and give that guy shit for his comment, but I think there are people out there that might. Not very professional.

#156 Edited by skelington_ (292 posts) -

@Milkman said:

@xMrSunshine said:

I don't really want to comment on this can of worms but duuuuuuude why would you call a user out in an article on the main page because he made stupid comment on the internet. At least block the name and jesus fucking christ don't post a picture and everything. I'm pretty effing sure that's against the rules of this site. Rules that every user needs to agree to follow when they make their account (might not be true, it's been a while since I made an account) and if they break the rules they can/should get punished for it. Not a great example of this when a staff member does something like this.

Whaaaat the fuuuuck. If you're smart you'll do some damage control and edit that shit out like ten minutes ago.

If you post a comment publicly on the internet, it's for everyone to see. People should think before they type.

Backing this guy up. That's why you should always think before you post pictures or comments on Facebook, 'tweet' on Twitter, or make remarks on a video game website. No matter where or how you leave your mark on the Internet, you better make sure you won't regret it at some point later on if it's visible to a wide audience, as the most seemingly trivial thing can be very damaging. User's fault, not Patrick's.

#157 Posted by MMann (64 posts) -

@xMrSunshine: Maybe if he didn't want people to read his comment, he shouldn't have posted it?

When you post something in a public place, especially a forum or a comments section, you should have the expectation that people are going to see it.

#158 Posted by EnduranceFun (1109 posts) -

Eve Walter quietly edited down from two tweets. We now know who truly pulls Patrick's strings.

#159 Posted by pbhawks45 (738 posts) -

@EnduranceFun said:

@BrianP: If it isn't a dead horse, it's a morbidly obese horse after feeding on all these sexist / feminist articles posted by Patrick. To much of the community, these have become a tiresome part of the site.

Then too fucking bad. It's a real issue, and your awful, derogatory comments these past two days are proof enough that this is a problem.

#160 Edited by Willtron (243 posts) -

Men's rights.

...

Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.

Also, post above me = the fucking truth.

#161 Posted by churrific (485 posts) -

@Milkman said:

@Turambar said:

@EnduranceFun said:

@Turambar: I do find it quite ridiculous he picks out one guy to shame and ignores everyone else, ostensibly because he doesn't want to hear opposing opinions [discouraging!]. No offence to the user, but his poor grammar and insensitive post doesn't represent those well who disagreed with Patrick's antics.

Patrick does acknowledge that there are plenty of posts far more substantive than his example, but still opposite of his point of view.

My problem has more to do with breaking forum rules that has resulted in edits and thread locks whenever any other user did this in the past. Well, I also just think this article is needless, but that's a much lesser annoyance.

That's not a rule. If the article was called "[INSERT USER NAME HERE] is a sexist asshole", that'd be against the rules. But this guy posted his comment on a public forum on the internet. In turn, he's subject to praise, criticism, whatever. Saying that the forum user's name shouldn't be included in like saying all of the tweets in the first article and this one shouldn't be included. People should think before they type and some sort of responsibility for your words is sadly missing on the internet.

Yes, he's subject to all of that stuff. I think it's just a grade-school level type of thing for someone like Patrick to do.

#162 Posted by theveej (854 posts) -

It's the internet Patrick, its the cool thing to be contradictory and try to be as witty as possible (it's the whole trolling/hipster part of today's internet culture). Plus anyone can be a keyboard warrior talking shit behind a monitor.....

My sister clawed her way out of a chauvinistic Persian culture and is now working at Google, I like to see how many of these people who leave comments like "just grow a pair" would actually say that to her face (hint, she would knock you the fuck out). Yah some of these things mentioned in #1reasonwhy are first world problems, but I don't see people shedding a tear or breaking a sweat about the real world problems (for example, thousands of human right violations happening each day in Middle East and hundreds of innocent human dying, tortured or imprisoned for speaking their thoughts), So start with these so called first world problems, stuff that you can actually change more easily, because we all know that no one actually gives a shit about the real world problems.

There are a lot of parallels between Comics and Video games when it come to both the portrayal of females in the medium and some of the bs given to female creators. But the comic book book industry is way ahead of the video game industry as far as the treatment of female characters and workers go (which is a sad thing to say), maybe when we get something equivalent to a Wonder Woman or a Bat-woman (in terms of quality of story and portrayal of a female character) gamers realize the awesomeness of having strong female characters and the amazing stories that can be written utilizing them. It's not shocking that gamers have these sort of idiotic reaction to something like #1reasonwhy when the biggest female character in video games is Lara Croft.........

#163 Posted by Grimluck343 (1160 posts) -

thanks for the clarification. Regardless of whether or not it was within the rules I think it sets a pretty terrible precedent for future articles if we're going to start calling out opinions we don't agree with. Just imagine AmericanNinja's inbox right now.

#164 Posted by Onkel_Apan (56 posts) -

@EnduranceFun said:

Most of the discussion from the comment section ignored. Thanks for the misinformation, because the discussion you perpetuated was 'discouraging.' Yes, yes, sexism bad, Patrick good.

You also posted the same tweet twice...?

To sum up the comment section:

  • Faith is not a memorable character at all and it's insulting the way you talk about her female writer
  • Virtual boobies in Dead or Alive DLC is not equatable to real world problems
  • Secretaries are largely female and gamers are largely male, thus the stereotypes
  • Twitter is not a good sole sample for a 'news story'
  • How about some coverage on social issues in games other than sexism?

write it on your twitter and tweet it to him. haven´t you understood how gaming journalism works?

#165 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -

Come on everyone, we all know why it caused the mess it did. It's not even complicated: it's politics. Bringing it up was political, and the backlash was completely predictable. What's really irritating is that the backlash was probably exactly the point of the campaign--if no one was snarky about it and everyone agreed, then there would be no point in the campaign to begin with. They brought it up this way because they knew it would cause an argument and publicity.

Duh.

It's caused precisely zero worthwhile discussion, and just pissed a bunch of people off. Yay. Victory.

#166 Posted by dr_mantas (2054 posts) -

Here is the thought process that I have a problem with:

Women face issues in workplace, issues are related to them being women -> issues are caused by sexism -> sexism is caused by men -> all men are sexist, unless they agree with previous though process, then they are reformed sexists -> all sexists and reformed sexists (which is all men) should feel bad, because they are bad people, even though they can't decide which sex they should be born as. -> you should prostrate yourself on twitter for being male, you chauvinist pig

I prefer this model:

Women face issues in workplace, issues are related to them being women -> don't mistreat women, in fact, treat them the same you would treat a man (if you treat everyone badly you are simply an asshole) -> if someone else mistreats women OR men, point it out, help them see how they're wrong.

If having an internet discussion -> don't insult and demean everyone you disagree with.

#167 Posted by Milkman (17316 posts) -

@EnduranceFun said:

@BrianP: If it isn't a dead horse, it's a morbidly obese horse after feeding on all these sexist / feminist articles posted by Patrick. To much of the community, these have become a tiresome part of the site.

Then stop reading it. You had more comments in the last article than anyone. If it's so tiresome, go do something else. Play some video games. Some people (like me) appreciate the articles.

#168 Posted by Turambar (6894 posts) -

@Milkman said:

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

Patrick did none of those things. He simply presented his comment and presented his rebuttal. He didn't personally attack the user. He didn't release any personal information. It's no different than me quoting your post right now.

I'd say making a focal point within the OP makes a bit different from simply quoting. Identifying the user within the OP also has something to do with it. Mods have deleted threads whose OPs have included such targeted criticisms before, even if they did not include personal insults.

#169 Posted by EnduranceFun (1109 posts) -

@pbhawks45: It is bordering on satirical the amount of times I've heard 'you prove I'm right by your comment.' If what you say had merit you'd have a more substantive argument.

#170 Posted by Draxyle (1895 posts) -

@AuthenticM said:

Bringing up one very real problem does not invalidate other very real problems, but being so dismissive of the argument suggests you aren’t taking the original argument seriously, and instead want to discredit it because you don’t believe it has any merit in the first place. At least be honest.

BOOM. Patrick killing it !

Indeed. It adds absolutely nothing to the discussion to just hand-wave a discussion in favor of a completely different topic.

We don't give up the fight for civil rights just because people are dying in the middle east, and we don't give up the fight for the lives of those people in the middle east because of civil rights. We can care about more than one thing at once. These are all discussions we should be having, and outright dismissing a legitimate societal problem is cold, un-empathetic, and selfish no matter what the reason, even if it's "not as big of a deal". Ignoring the problem is exactly what allows that problem to get worse.

#171 Posted by zacharai (88 posts) -

Thanks Patrick, I'm glad you're bringing this up. The more it's brought out in the light, the less people will take reflexive positions that either ignore or belittle the problem. I'm constantly challenging myself to not assume much about people based on age/race/gender/whatever, because yeah, it's natural, and I know we can do better.

#172 Posted by Shivoa (645 posts) -

Thanks for these news articles, it definitely seems worth bringing the conversations off Twitter to maybe catch some people who don't frequent that social network and may have otherwise missed it. Especially with the very vocal reactions in the comments on GB that may indicate it is an important message to spread over here.

I think it's just the entertainment software industry (which started out as software engineers and has expanded from there with that culture rather than a more diverse culture associated with the different roles in every studio currently staffed for any major title) reflecting on something the entire of STEM is having a problem with. The male dominated culture (still getting only 20-40% female PhD in the US in STEM subjects) puts off a new generation of women from joining the ranks and that's after there is the issue of all stages of education and 'normal' roles (Lego/Mechano primarily sold for boys to become young problem solvers and builders etc) so when anyone is looking to hire there'll be ten men for every woman who applies so the balance isn't going to change itself. It'll take at least another generation to fix that issue, but at least game studios are employing a wider range of skill roles and so could work their way out of this faster than a pure software house (or other STEM only employer).

#173 Posted by Matoyak (320 posts) -

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

Doesn't cover what Patrick did here. He made no personal attack against the guy. He simply asked that people not troll, and not post irrelevant, empty statements in an attempt to keep the discussion on topic, using this guy as an example. If the guy didn't want to get quoted, (which is all Patrick did here, it's no different than quoting him in the comment thread), he shouldn't've said it in public on the site.

#174 Posted by EnduranceFun (1109 posts) -

@Milkman: Well how about you stop reading my comments and replying them? By the same token, there's a whole world out there for you to explore, my friend! Don't let my posts upset you.

#175 Posted by iAmJohn (6134 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@Milkman said:

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

Patrick did none of those things. He simply presented his comment and presented his rebuttal. He didn't personally attack the user. He didn't release any personal information. It's no different than me quoting your post right now.

I'd say making a focal point within the OP makes a bit different from simply quoting. Identifying the user within the OP also has something to do with it. Mods have deleted threads whose OPs have included such targeted criticisms before, even if they did not include personal insults.

And if they did exactly what Patrick did, then they followed the rules to a T and the mods were wrong to close those threads.

What now?

#176 Posted by Shaanyboi (1343 posts) -

Thanks for posting, Patrick

#177 Edited by fallen_rock2 (45 posts) -

Wow, create controversy and then report on yourself. That is some fucking quality ass journalism right there.

#178 Posted by ZHabermann (94 posts) -

I don't know why people bother pointing out grammar mistakes in the article there are always loads because Patrick doesn't proof read or maybe it's his style or whatever but I think I have to say something here...

Why have you talking about trolling comments on your last "article"? It was a post about a twitter hashtag involving a sensitive topic. It's pretty obvious it was posted to cause flame wars or arguments or whatever you want to call it, I just don't see what leg you have to stand on to be high and mighty about.

Plus what is this self quoting bullshit? I think it's pretty obvious what your opinion on the subject is, why do you have to sell yourself to your audience? It might not be the case but it looks like either some huge ego power play or cry for attention.

As I once said, "Hey hey look at me this quote will be on Wikiquotes one day mark my words and quote my words two #Y2K2"

#179 Edited by xMrSunshine (364 posts) -

@Grimluck343: Oh yeah dude. His inbox must be filled with the worst shit right now. Even I got 6-7 PMs for my post, mostly just people thinking that what Patrick pulled was ok in their books.

E: scratch that 6-7. Now it's closer to 10-12.

#180 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -
@iAmJohn said:

@xMrSunshine said:

@iAmJohn:

2. NO victimization of others or use of discriminatory language: Includes but not limited to hateful personal attacks against other users, sexism, or any racist or homophobic slurs or statements. Similarly, you may not release the personal information of another user without their consent.

I'll bet my ass that if a regular user would do something like this it would result in a ban, warning or some other method of punishment.

How is this in any way a personal attack? Patrick wrote an article about the response to yesterday's story, quoted a relevant comment from said story, and talked about how it represented what he thought was a wrong mindset. He didn't personally attack the guy; he didn't even say anything remotely insulting about the guy or even mention him by name or in any way after posting the comment. You people are stretching to the extreme.

People grasping at straws, that's all it is. 
 
But I would love to see that rule actually being a thing and not just written down. 
A whole lot of people in the comments here and in that other thread deserve it after how they act. Sexist and derogatory comments towards all women is just the beginning of some of the little shitforbrains in these comments. Forums would be a better place without them. 
 
Come on natural selection, get to work! wipe them the fuck out
#181 Posted by Jiggaboojeeves (11 posts) -

Ah, yes, a male games journalism quoting himself at the end of an article about women's issues. Can't take the spotlight off yourself for five seconds, can you? Christ.

#182 Posted by TDot (347 posts) -

@haggis said:

Come on everyone, we all know why it caused the mess it did. It's not even complicated: it's politics. Bringing it up was political, and the backlash was completely predictable. What's really irritating is that the backlash was probably exactly the point of the campaign--if no one was snarky about it and everyone agreed, then there would be no point in the campaign to begin with. They brought it up this way because they knew it would cause an argument and publicity.

Duh.

It's caused precisely zero worthwhile discussion, and just pissed a bunch of people off. Yay. Victory.

Oh wow, it's politics!? That's certainly not a blanket nondescript statement that totally invalidates any argument. Politics!

#183 Posted by Brodehouse (10129 posts) -

I long for the day when 'entitled' and 'privileged' used as insults against men are viewed as disgusting as 'emotional' and 'hysterical' are for women. What an incredibly disingenuous way of labeling a human being completely irrelevant. If you call someone 'privileged' on account of their gender, you label their thoughts and feelings completely worthless because of how they were born. I wonder how you would feel if the same happened to you.

#184 Posted by pbhawks45 (738 posts) -

@EnduranceFun: I do have an argument. I've made several here. Women deserve to be treated fairly, and shit like "just stand up for yourself" ignores the underlying problem at hand where people think harassment is okay.

#185 Posted by CarlosTheDwarf (41 posts) -

"Raising Awareness": It's what you do instead of "something."

#186 Posted by Grimluck343 (1160 posts) -

@fallen_rock2 said:

Wow, create controversy and then report on yourself. That some fucking quality ass journalism right there.

Don't forget to be really disappointed at all the internet trolls you fed in the previous article!

#187 Edited by Skillface (566 posts) -

I agree that it isn't right to call out a user like that. Maybe if you were responding to a well-thought out effortpost rebutting your position, but really? Dude made a troll-y, one line asshole remark comment on a news article, don't think it merits public shaming...we've all done something similar at some point.

#188 Posted by Milkman (17316 posts) -

@Jiggaboojeeves said:

Ah, yes, a male games journalism quoting himself at the end of an article about women's issues. Can't take the spotlight off yourself for five seconds, can you? Christ.

Finally, the user with "Jiggaboo" in his name is here to set everyone straight.

#189 Posted by Enigma777 (6058 posts) -

I don't come to Giant Bomb for articles like these. It's the wrong place for such a discussion in my opinion. Just because you have a soapbox doesn't mean that you have to use it for every little thing Patrick. On the other hand, when there's no news to write about, you gotta take what you can get... even if you gotta scrape the bottom of the barrel. It's a tough line to balance.

#190 Posted by BenderUnit22 (1545 posts) -

Before I indulge into a (in the context of this current movement) minor issue, let me state first that I dispise any sexist and demeaning treatment of women and if you're a victim of such treatment, I sincerely hope that this will raise the awareness you deserve.

Anyway, so yesterday it was Faith, now it's Lara Croft? I mean, not 10 years ago she was the symbolism of sexist men creating their perfect video game heroine, now she's a bright example of what a woman can do when given the chance? What about that retracted statement from last year's E3 when PR or whoever said they wanted the player to feel like he wants to protect Lara from harm? I remember some uproar about sexism over the "need to protect this poor damsel" attitude, yet it was written by a woman? I'm also not really sure how female protagonists and female game developers have to correlate. Samus Aran, Alyx Vance or Jade were to my knowledge created by men (really, they were created by an entire team, but for the argument's sake). You could also highlight Amy Hennig's work at Naughty Dog for the Uncharted series.

Again, this is not really about the whole 1reasonwhy thing, but a problem I have with Patricks argumentations.

#191 Posted by dr_mantas (2054 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

I long for the day when 'entitled' and 'privileged' used as insults against men are viewed as disgusting as 'emotional' and 'hysterical' are for women. What an incredibly disingenuous way of labeling a human being completely irrelevant. If you call someone 'privileged' on account of their gender, you label their thoughts and feelings completely worthless because of how they were born. I wonder how you would feel if the same happened to you.

Very well made point. Maybe Patrick should write an article about this or something.

#192 Posted by Xeirus (1370 posts) -

@bombedyermom said:

@cabrit_sans_cor said:

This.

Stay strong, Scoops. You're doing good work.

Yay someone said it, so now I'm done with this thread.

Good job Patrick!

#193 Posted by iAmJohn (6134 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

I long for the day when 'entitled' and 'privileged' used as insults against men are viewed as disgusting as 'emotional' and 'hysterical' are for women. What an incredibly disingenuous way of labeling a human being completely irrelevant. If you call someone 'privileged' on account of their gender, you label their thoughts and feelings completely worthless because of how they were born. I wonder how you would feel if the same happened to you.

Acting like it's not a problem because it doesn't personally affect you, as many people in these comments and the comments from the last story have done and continue to do, is pretty much the definition of being "privileged." Or, to put it another way, an out-of-touch asshole.

#194 Posted by SharkMan (684 posts) -

@CarlosTheDwarf said:

"Raising Awareness": It's what you do instead of "something."

raising awareness is something dumbass. raises your awareness so that when you recognize it happening you do something. derp.

#195 Posted by NoelVeiga (1115 posts) -

@theveej said:

It's the internet Patrick, its the cool thing to be contradictory and try to be as witty as possible (it's the whole trolling/hipster part of today's internet culture). Plus anyone can be a keyboard warrior talking shit behind a monitor.....

My sister clawed her way out of a chauvinistic Persian culture and is now working at Google, I like to see how many of these people who leave comments like "just grow a pair" would actually say that to her face (hint, she would knock you the fuck out). Yah some of these things mentioned in #1reasonwhy are first world problems, but I don't see people shedding a tear or breaking a sweat about the real world problems (for example, thousands of human right violations happening each day in Middle East and hundreds of innocent human dying, tortured or imprisoned for speaking their thoughts), So start with these so called first world problems, stuff that you can actually change more easily, because we all know that no one actually gives a shit about the real world problems.

Quoted for truth...

...but also, I'd be fascinated to dig in the "who cares" or "first world problems" crowd and see how many have raised hell about on-disc DLC like their lives depended on it, or about this or that feature not being in a game they otherwise like.

It seems that first world problems only qualify as such when 1) they don't affect yourself and 2) you feel guilty, embarrassed or weakened by their existence.

#196 Posted by depecheload (497 posts) -

@Grimluck343 said:

@fallen_rock2 said:

Wow, create controversy and then report on yourself. That some fucking quality ass journalism right there.

Don't forget to be really disappointed at all the internet trolls you fed in the previous article!

I believe the correct term is "all you horrible disgusting misogynist idiots who want to whine about women all day and not do anything to make the world a better place because you're scum."

#197 Edited by EnduranceFun (1109 posts) -

@pbhawks45: Women deserve to be treated fairly is your argument? Wow, how fucking Earth-shattering. Feminism is not all about equal rights, arguably it has divided from them. Not apples and oranges, but not the exact same as you would have me believe.

#198 Posted by iAmJohn (6134 posts) -

@Jiggaboojeeves said:

Ah, yes, a male games journalism quoting himself at the end of an article about women's issues. Can't take the spotlight off yourself for five seconds, can you? Christ.

Oh good, I was wondering when your racist ass would show up.

#199 Posted by Mikemcn (7018 posts) -

Twitter is the lamest medium for a protest imaginable.

#200 Posted by Turtlemayor333 (510 posts) -

The problem is that people keep trying to treat the internet like it's a motherfucking rap beat.