Giant Bomb achievement tracking legal junk

After Sony slapped Giant Bomb on the wrist for (as far as I can tell) taking without asking first, I started to wonder about the methods behind the achievement tracking system.
 
As far as I can tell in the cases of Microsoft and Sony the tracking is done by scraping - that is, automatic downloading of the same official site pages that you or I could visit in a browser and grabbing all the relevant details out of those pages. This is a violation of their terms of service and the reason that Sony told Giant Bomb to get lost.
 
Microsoft don't offer a public API for obtaining achievement data. Two or three years ago the now-defunct Xbox Community Developer Program gave rise to sites like mygamercard.net and a few other services for getting limited public profile info but nothing like the level of detail that Giant Bomb has got. Apparently you can get some stuff out of XNA too, but this is also limited.
 
So my question is: is this all cut and dry and above board and all that crap? Both Xbox Live and Xbox.com terms of service seem to expressly forbid this kind of thing.

Interesting question.

So there is no API?
 
But you are not doing anything wrong, your account is not in danger.
 
If there is no API, Giant bomb is just accessing your profile on xbox.com, which you has made publicly available.
Where in the TOS is this forbidden?

" @Insectecutor: Do you really think Microsoft would have paid for a huge ODST advertising campaign on Giant Bomb if the legality of the achievement tracking system was in question? "  

I'm pretty sure Giant Bomb isn't in trouble.

" @Forcen: According to Jeff, there is an API.
 
"...The only reason we're able to have 360 achievements in the system is because Microsoft has built an API and a big website around that information." "

I'm fairly sure Microsoft have an API that they only allow a select few websites use. Either way, the Xbox achievements are definitely 100% official from MS.

As for the sony issue, sony has this page: http://profiles.us.playstation.com/playstation/psn/profile/<INSERT PSN ID HERE>/get_ordered_trophies_data
 
When you visit it (obviously putting a PSN ID in where I've put "<INSERT PSN ID HERE>") it gives you an ordered trophy data in a very plain format. To me, it seems the only conceivable use for this would be for outside websites to pull data from. So I have no idea why Sony have put that in their trophy website, yet don't want outside sites using trophy data. 
 
My guess is that the GB dudes came to the same assumptions as me & went and used these pages to put trophies on GB. This is another assumption I'm making that could be just as wrong as my assumptions about the simple formatted trophy data pages, but it's a possible scenario.

In my travels around Google I found no evidence of any published, documented APIs other than the XNA one and the XCDP one, neither of which offer the level of detail that Giant Bomb has got. Sony now has an API (an AJAX back end to their site) but Giant Bomb are no longer allowed to use that.
 
I'm satisfied my ID is not at risk, I shouldn't have asked that question. I'm still not entirely sure how this all works on the Microsoft side. I'm guessing Giant Bomb have an agreement with Microsoft, but unlike other sites that make this agreement plain Giant Bomb does not say anything about it.
 

@MB

" @Insectecutor: Do you really think Microsoft would have paid for a huge ODST advertising campaign on Giant Bomb if the legality of the achievement tracking system was in question?"

The staff will probably post in this thread and explain all

You haven't submitted your password and nobody is going to do anything to your account because someone else is accessing your information. Also, GB is only accessing public information that already exists out there and that you already (through their gamer tag APIs for both Sony and Microsoft) stick on websites and forums using their codes, anyway.
 
It is in their best interest for places like Giant Bomb to make use of this data as it certainly encourages people to play more or pay attention to their scores and trophies and achievements more, which is what both companies want. Communities like this are doing them a service by utilizing their data in compelling ways.
 
There is also nothing "legal" that they can do to giant bomb, other than ban the IP of their crawler, since they're doing nothing wrong by accessing a publicly available website's page -- and even then, only once per day per account. If they bitch about it, it's only slightly more valid of a complaint as the idiots who try to take legal action against people for linking to their website without permission.
 
If Sony really has a problem with this, then they're idiots and it's a great example of why they're so far behind. They have done a miserable job with their own community and achievement system. If you're going to be a "me too" and have yet another stupid meta-gaming system, then at least embrace it and do it well instead of half-assed and then hindering those third parties that actually add a great deal of value to your offering.

Makes me wonder how http://ps3trophycard.com gets their info. It's not updated on the fly, it takes some time, so they probably have to run an update script, but it shows all games and even hidden Trophies. Regardless it's just going around the problem. Sony should really get together and make an API for external sites...

" @Branthog: I totally agree that both Sony and Microsoft benefit from other sites making use of their data - it builds community and they would be foolish to stand in the way of that. I believe Sony's objection to Giant Bomb jumping on their AJAX is simply because they didn't capacity plan for this kind of use. Perhaps in future they will have a proper SOAP API that sites like GB can use. Thing is, who cares what you or I believe? Your point about whether GB are doing anything wrong by accessing publicly available data from Microsoft's site is interesting. There is a widespread belief that anything that is published online is free for all, but that's kind of naive. Microsoft has very specific terms of service that state "Unless otherwise specified, the Xbox.com Web Site is for your personal and non-commercial use. You may not modify, copy, distribute, transmit, display, perform, reproduce, publish, license, create derivative works from, transfer, or sell any information, software, products or services obtained from the Xbox.com Web Site." Giant Bomb is a commercial venture. The achievement tracking system obviously adds value to that.  All I'm asking is whether MS have agreed to GB's collection of data. My guess is that they have not, because GB started grabbing Sony's data without bothering to get permission. And however much you love Giant Bomb that is not good business. "

"@Insectecutor: Do you really think Microsoft would have paid for a huge ODST advertising campaign on Giant Bomb if the legality of the achievement tracking system was in question? If you're that concerned about Microsoft taking action against your Xbox Live account, and I don't think any reasonable person should be, then I would advise you to unlink your gamertag from your Giant Bomb account. "

Though they don't seem to advertise its existence anymore, I wouldn't call the XCDP defunct.

:) thanks Jeff.