Giant Bomb Staff Opinions on the ME3 Ending

Late to the party on this one, but I'm curious if there have been any bombcasts, videos, or blog posts where the staff members discuss their opinions on the original ME3 ending.

It's bad. That's their opinion.

I really wish they did a spoilercast, but no they haven't really discussed the ending. The consensus seems to be it's "okay/alright" and not worth all the ridiculous buzz it got.

@kishinfoulux said:

I really wish they did a spoilercast, but no they haven't really discussed the ending. The consensus seems to be it's "okay/alright" and not worth all the ridiculous buzz it got.

I thought it was that they thought it wasn't great but still not worth the buzz it got.

Just wait for the GoTY podcast, I bet they will talk more in-depth about it there especially cuz Brad should be finished with the game by then.

Judging by the latest video, I assume they'll talk about it a little bit next week once Brad has finished the game.

Not just that it's bad, Jeff thought the ending was in line with the rest of the game and didn't like it on a larger scale than saying "just the ending sucked". I agree, whole game has issues.

Maybe it's because I played and beat ME3 after the extended cut was released, but I thought the ending was great.

@Trainer_Red said:

Maybe it's because I played and beat ME3 after the extended cut was released, but I thought the ending was great.

The Extended Cut fixed a LOT of what was wrong with the ending. Ever want to see what I and millions of others experienced during the week of release? Uninstall the EC and roll through the final mission again. You'll see exactly why we were furious.

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Trainer_Red said:

Maybe it's because I played and beat ME3 after the extended cut was released, but I thought the ending was great.

The Extended Cut fixed a LOT of what was wrong with the ending. Ever want to see what I and millions of others experienced during the week of release? Uninstall the EC and roll through the final mission again. You'll see exactly why we were furious.

From what I have read, it's basically the same thing except that more dialogue between the catalyst and Shepard was added along with a few extra scenes after you beat the game. Even if Joker's ship crashed instead of landed and Shepard died (I chose Synthesis so that wouldn't matter) I can't really see what all the fuss was about. I will try doing that on my next play through though.

@Trainer_Red said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Trainer_Red said:

Maybe it's because I played and beat ME3 after the extended cut was released, but I thought the ending was great.

The Extended Cut fixed a LOT of what was wrong with the ending. Ever want to see what I and millions of others experienced during the week of release? Uninstall the EC and roll through the final mission again. You'll see exactly why we were furious.

From what I have read, it's basically the same thing except that more dialogue between the catalyst and Shepard was added along with a few extra scenes after you beat the game. Even if Joker's ship crashed instead of landed and Shepard died (I chose Synthesis so that wouldn't matter) I can't really see what all the fuss was about. I will try doing that on my next play through though.

the old ending felt super rushed, the implications for the universe, which were retconed in the extended cut, were very bad and didn't make any sense and, of course, it was a plot hole ridden nighmare that shatered the suspension of disbelief for anyone with a lick of common sense. The extended cut tries to tie the broken pieces of the old ending to make something coherent. So instead of a great ending fiting for the story, we get an ok conclusion with a bunch of nonsense still.

@Trainer_Red: I don't know if this warrants a spoiler tag, but here goes anyhow.

@pyrodactyl said:

@Trainer_Red said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Trainer_Red said:

Maybe it's because I played and beat ME3 after the extended cut was released, but I thought the ending was great.

The Extended Cut fixed a LOT of what was wrong with the ending. Ever want to see what I and millions of others experienced during the week of release? Uninstall the EC and roll through the final mission again. You'll see exactly why we were furious.

From what I have read, it's basically the same thing except that more dialogue between the catalyst and Shepard was added along with a few extra scenes after you beat the game. Even if Joker's ship crashed instead of landed and Shepard died (I chose Synthesis so that wouldn't matter) I can't really see what all the fuss was about. I will try doing that on my next play through though.

the old ending felt super rushed, the implications for the universe, which were retconed in the extended cut, were very bad and didn't make any sense and, of course, it was a plot hole ridden nighmare that shatered the suspension of disbelief for anyone with a lick of common sense. The extended cut tries to tie the broken pieces of the old ending to make something coherent. So instead of a great ending fiting for the story, we get an ok conclusion with a bunch of nonsense still.

How is the ending nonsense after/before the patch? Also, what plot holes are you referring to?

I think the Extended Cut only fixes plot holes, not the fact that the ending is really fucking stupid and hangs its hat on Starchild. When doing extended ending they were like "Yeah, you got us in a few places, these parts are poorly explained. So let us be clear: We were serious before, this is the ending."

Still I though I'm fucking bummed that they changed the detail of their ending that left everyone stranded on earth. What the fuck guys? That was the best part because it could've led to a fantastic Mass Effect Earth set 200 years later where all the star hopping culture meeting stuff all happens on a single planet! (As @Oldirtybearon: also observes) I imagine 200 years everyone will be at each others throats like mad! Quarians will be either dead (as they probably didn't bring the sort of food they eat) or at a very low population (because immune deficiencies ate through their numbers), Krogans will be miserable as they didn't bring any females to Earth but, like Asari, they live for long times so they're just living out their days knowing that they are numbered. Humans are king obviously, their planet, would be cool to see what that would be like. Instead they just say "nope actually we want relays to still be there actually!" Then you shouldn't have blown them up in the first place you fucking morons! What was the point of blowing them up if you can just change your mind and rebuild them in the extended cut?

I'm sure they'll talk about it plenty on the GOTY podcasts.

@Oldirtybearon said:

@Trainer_Red: I don't know if this warrants a spoiler tag, but here goes anyhow.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

In the original ending, Shepard dies and the resulting kamehameha from the Citadel actually overloads the mass relays and they all blow up. Instantaneously, the entire galaxy is isolated. There's no more interstellar travel because the galactic community hasn't bothered to really dig into FTL drives that could handle such a trip. Why would they? They had the mass relays. With that fact in mind, you now have over a billion alien life-forms stranded over a planet that has been ravaged by the Reapers. What farm-land and fresh water is left can only be consumed by humans. Turians and Quarians are going to starve to death. And how long is it before the Krogans get antsy and start eating everyone else? It's a grim fucking situation that the original ME3 ending leaves you with.

And none of that is touching on why Joker would abandon Shepard when he needed him most. Joker spends the entire trilogy at your back. Even when you were with Cerberus, Joker stood by you. Why would he leave Shepard in the middle of a battle for the fate of the galaxy? That's completely out of character for the pilot. Him running from the beam made zero fucking sense in the original ending.

There's more, like how the Catalyst made no sense and there was absolutely no foreshadowing of his arrival, but you can dig into that if you want to read it. Keep in mind that you played and enjoyed ME3 with the Extended Cut. There was none of that context or happy ending nonsense for the people who played it before hand. The ending to Mass Effect 3 was a brutal slap in the face to everyone who went with BioWare on that journey. It was just fucking mean spirited.

**SPOILER** (sorry, i'm not sure how to do that spoiler thing)

Ok, I could see why that ending would be considered grim, but is it really that bad or hard to believe? Even if the fleets that defended the crucible perished, would it not be worth it to know that their home worlds are now safe from the Reapers? That was the whole point of the battle and the game even foreshadowed it. To bait the reapers away from the crucible at any means necessary. It was a suicide mission from the get go and it's really sad to think about, but it's not at all unlikely or incomplete.

Joker was very loyal to Shepard but I would imagine that he would do anything for EDI, including leaving Shepard and earth behind. I would also imagine that anyone would try to run away from a large EMP no matter what color it was. I also felt like everyone including Joker knew that Shepard was going to die. They said their peace and left it at that.

I can understand your last point though. The whole catalyst thing came out of nowhere and it could have been handled better. I guess i'm lucky that I finished the game after the patch.

The only issues I had with the game itself was that anime ninja dude and the whole side mission/crucible thing. OH YEAH, AND NOT BEING ALE TO SEE TALI'S FACE IN AN ANIMATED SEQUENCE.

Was there ever any kind of post mortem with Bioware about what they were thinking when they made that ending?

Brad still doesn't know what happened (unless that mailbag/office video totally reveals that he actually does know,) and Patrick and Ryan seem pretty negative about it. Vinny thinks it's okay and really still likes ME3. Jeff thought it was in line with the rest of the game.

Personally, it's swiftly becoming one of my favorite endings to a video game ever, if for nothing else than the hundreds of divergent and brilliant essays written about Mass Effect as a result.

Yeah they probably didnt like it lol.

Personally, I felt the games ending was very different and awesome. I totally understand the complaints in fact I agree with most of them but I felt it was a very Sci-Fi ending. Those types of ending that may be ridiculed but it just feels grand and thats what ME3 made me feel. I felt sad and the same time felt like I had just experienced something that will be remembered for ever in video game history.

@Winternet said:

It's bad. That's their opinion.

Well, not exactly. I remember Jeff saying that he didn't necessarily hate the ending he just didn't like how it was delivered. Vinny stated in the last podcast (I think?) that he didn't hate it per se rather he was warm to it. It was what it was. I don't recall what Ryan said. I'm pretty sure Patrick hated it because it seems like something Patrick would hate.

@Sidoran said:

Was there ever any kind of post mortem with Bioware about what they were thinking when they made that ending?

I wish. It'll probably take years for some ex-employee to finally spill the story. It's very clear that something went wrong, but it's in EA's nature to pretend it was all as planned. Hence them "clarifying" the ending rather than changing it with the extended cut.

@JasonR86 said:

@Winternet said:

It's bad. That's their opinion.

Well, not exactly. I remember Jeff saying that he didn't necessarily hate the ending he just didn't like how it was delivered. Vinny stated in the last podcast (I think?) that he didn't hate it per se rather he was warm to it. It was what it was. I don't recall what Ryan said. I'm pretty sure Patrick hated it because it seems like something Patrick would hate.

Being bad doesn't mean you have to hate it. There is a lot that I think it's bad, that I don't hate. If they hate the ending or not I can't say for sure, but that they think it's bad is a certainty.

Jeff just didn't like the Intelligence choosing the form of the child from Shepard's subconscious. Jeff hates any game that appears to be trying to emotionally manipulate him (which is weird, because emotional manipulation is the entire reason for fiction).

Ryan ... Doesn't pay enough attention to anything. So I don't know. I find it interesting he can be so detail oriented when it comes to movies but with games anything that asks him to remember more than 2 character names is super complicated.

Vinny... I think Vinny has a low bar, and I think after Leviathan he feels the revelations of the ME3 ending are a bit more fleshed out.

Brad... I think Brad will get wrapped around the "we had to kill you to stop you from killing yourselves" thing. It's clear that the Intelligence is concerned with organic life _as a whole_, and doesn't count the turians as more important than the varren. The entire Intelligence's plot was to essentially prune a galactic tree so that it never grew beyond a certain height; the Mass Effect technological age.

And Patrick hates it because EA threw all the marketing behind it, it's more of an action game (and action games are clearly THE WORST) and he'll get more indie cred if he lambasts it.

My favorite part of the synthesis ending is where Joker's baseball cap gets imbued with synthetic glowy bits. GOTY.

@Draxyle said:

@Sidoran said:

Was there ever any kind of post mortem with Bioware about what they were thinking when they made that ending?

I wish. It'll probably take years for some ex-employee to finally spill the story. It's very clear that something went wrong, but it's in EA's nature to pretend it was all as planned. Hence them "clarifying" the ending rather than changing it with the extended cut.

Wasn't there a story from some Bioware employee that got deleted hours later where it basically said "Casey Hudson locked himself and one other guy in a room for like 3 hours and wrote the entire ending, which is completely retarded because peer review is how writing fucking works".

Jeff did say that if Shepard shit into his hand and threw it, it would be a more honest ending.

So there's that.

@Brodehouse Jeff (and my) complaint is that for the first time in Mass Effect the game tells you to feel something when before it would present you with a conversation to explore instead. For instance, there are multiple times in both ME2 and ME3 one character asks the player "What do you think of the genophage?" instead of being told which way to feel about what happened to the Krogan.

Instead of showing the player just the dream sequences they should have shown Shepard awaking from nightmare and who ever he was romantically involved with there and they start a conversation kicked off with "What is wrong Shepard?" This offers the player the chance player explore the situation and state what they feel instead of the game telling them "You should feel terrible" because frankly some players might feel very differently about what is going on.

@Winternet said:

@JasonR86 said:

@Winternet said:

It's bad. That's their opinion.

Well, not exactly. I remember Jeff saying that he didn't necessarily hate the ending he just didn't like how it was delivered. Vinny stated in the last podcast (I think?) that he didn't hate it per se rather he was warm to it. It was what it was. I don't recall what Ryan said. I'm pretty sure Patrick hated it because it seems like something Patrick would hate.

Being bad doesn't mean you have to hate it. There is a lot that I think it's bad, that I don't hate. If they hate the ending or not I can't say for sure, but that they think it's bad is a certainty.

I didn't get that impression from Jeff or Vinny dude.

I recall Patrick saying he didn't hate it. I don't know what Brad will think, but he's playing the modded version, right?

I think ME's main flaw was that it was a trilogy that had to honor past decisions, which meant the decisions would have to be rather unimportant in effect. It didn't seem to matter much that you kill the council other than humans being despised. It would have been interesting if they handled some decisions like they handled the background choices in ME1, which is bar you from certain missions and extend others.

I'll just say that I didn't hate the original ending, but I totally understood the backlash that resulted from it. My only problem with the ending was that it was too open-ended... Was it the end of the universe? Was your crew permanently stranded on that planet? Were the millions of Citadel residents suddenly killed when it exploded? I just found it didn't have enough closure, especially for the finale in a trilogy. Fortunately, the extended cut DLC answered a lot of the questions I have, and now I have a better idea of where BioWare might take the universe for its next entry, which is really all I ever wanted.

My other only complaint with the game was the whole Return to Earth chapter, right before the finale. After spending the last 30 hours accumulating war assets and going off the beaten path to gather as many people as I could, I was really hoping my efforts would have paid off in some tangible form, rather than just be represented by a number and green meter on a computer screen. As a result of my choices, I would've liked to have seen geth fighting alongside the quarians, or turian ships performing airstrikes, or team up with a group of elcor in an assault. Anything that would've said, "here, this is your bonus for going on that side quest and getting those extra war assets."

Other than that, it was a fantastic experience, and is still probably the best game I've played all year.

@Terramagi:

I heard that story too. Gah. I sure hope that wasn't what happened, but a more cynical part of me believes that someone in Hudson and Mac Walters' position would do that because they wanted to be 'profound'. And, irony of ironies, Hudson did say he wanted ME3 to be memorable. Well, he got his wish. Just not in the way he wanted. XD

@Terramagi said:

@Draxyle said:

@Sidoran said:

Was there ever any kind of post mortem with Bioware about what they were thinking when they made that ending?

I wish. It'll probably take years for some ex-employee to finally spill the story. It's very clear that something went wrong, but it's in EA's nature to pretend it was all as planned. Hence them "clarifying" the ending rather than changing it with the extended cut.

Wasn't there a story from some Bioware employee that got deleted hours later where it basically said "Casey Hudson locked himself and one other guy in a room for like 3 hours and wrote the entire ending, which is completely retarded because peer review is how writing fucking works".

I have heard that too. I'd hate to believe it, but it would explain the situation perfectly. The only question would be, "why?".

With the thousands of dollars that probably went into recording and animating the final sequences, it's just absolutely insane that they would go this route for "shock value" with no peer review. Any writer with any sense would have stopped it from happening like that. I'm an amateur writer myself, and I feel insulted to no end just reading what they did.

I don't know if we'll ever hear the reason, since it's probably the most embarrassing mistake ever for Casey Hudson. Or even worse, there could have been an executive from EA who could have requested it, which we're even less likely to hear about. I really don't want to buy another ME or EA game until someone admits fault.

@Little_Socrates said:

Personally, it's swiftly becoming one of my favorite endings to a video game ever, if for nothing else than the hundreds of divergent and brilliant essays written about Mass Effect as a result.

I like to think about it as the video game analogue of The Soprano's ending. The difference being that while the myriad of interpretations that arose from the ending of The Sopranos were based on the "open-endedness" of the scene... the vast majority of interpretations of ME3's endings try to somehow fix or explain Bioware's shitty writing, hoping it can actually be rewritten in the future.

@Draxyle: To think that it was some EA executive that did it is just insane. Casey Hudson did it because it was the ending he wanted for his magnum opus moment. "we wanted to give players the chance to experience an inspiring and uplifting ending; in a story where you face a hopeless struggle for basic survival, we see the final moments and imagery as offering victory and hope in the context of sacrifice and reflection."

@JoeyRavn said:

@Little_Socrates said:

Personally, it's swiftly becoming one of my favorite endings to a video game ever, if for nothing else than the hundreds of divergent and brilliant essays written about Mass Effect as a result.

I like to think about it as the video game analogue of The Soprano's ending. The difference being that while the myriad of interpretations that arose from the ending of The Sopranos were based on the "open-endedness" of the scene... the vast majority of interpretations of ME3's endings try to somehow fix or explain Bioware's shitty writing, hoping it can actually be rewritten in the future.

Maybe at the outset, but most of the essays I've read are post-Extended Cut, actually. The three off-the-top-of-my-Chrome-bar are This Is Not A Pipe, Artistic Integrity Achieved, and On Pyrrhus. The one pre-Extended Cut essay I have up there right now is Why Changing Mass Effect's Ending Won't Compromise Art.

Yes, I have four essays on Mass Effect 3 open right now, and I've read several more. One of the more positive essays was by FilmCriticHulk, who then wrote an apology because he got a bit smashy.

@Trainer_Red: There is one other thing he left out about his synopsis of the original ending, and it is the part that pissed me off. It gave you basically no idea who survived. You don't know if your squadmates during the final push survived. You don't know if any of the major character involved up in the space battle survived. Outside of Joker, and possibly Liara and EDI, you do not know if anyone lived. It was very unfulfilling to have zero idea about how I left those characters. To me, the best part of Mass Effect was the cast of characters. They were what I was invested in and I didn't know any of their fates.

@Draxyle said:

@Sidoran said:

Was there ever any kind of post mortem with Bioware about what they were thinking when they made that ending?

I wish. It'll probably take years for some ex-employee to finally spill the story. It's very clear that something went wrong, but it's in EA's nature to pretend it was all as planned. Hence them "clarifying" the ending rather than changing it with the extended cut.

Bioware made the game, EA published it. Casey hudson and Mac Walters went off on one with the plot basically taking it in a different direction from the original 'Dark energy' idea that Drew K had when he conceived the initial story arc outline . EA actually gave them more time to complete the game when they ran into problems bringing it to a conclusion. Fact is the writers dropped the ball, however there was no way on earth they were going to admit to it. It is what it is unfortunately.

@IBurningStar said:

@Trainer_Red: There is one other thing he left out about his synopsis of the original ending, and it is the part that pissed me off. It gave you basically no idea who survived. You don't know if your squadmates during the final push survived. You don't know if any of the major character involved up in the space battle survived. Outside of Joker, and possibly Liara and EDI, you do not know if anyone lived. It was very unfulfilling to have zero idea about how I left those characters. To me, the best part of Mass Effect was the cast of characters. They were what I was invested in and I didn't know any of their fates.

That makes sense. So that cinematic when your squad dies/gets rescued wasn't in the original cut?

@Trainer_Red: Nope. After the final push where everything gets blown up/set on fire you never see them again.

@Trainer_Red said:

That makes sense. So that cinematic when your squad dies/gets rescued wasn't in the original cut?

That's correct. The original ending was awful, and left no closure to anyone for anything. It cut to credits after the scene of joker and your LI leaving the ship.

The extended cut wasn't what I wanted, but I was at least able to walk away knowing that I had a sense of how it ended. The original ending blue balled you and slapped you in the face because it told you to buy DLC.