#251 Posted by Ben_H (3293 posts) -

@mirado said:

@humanity said:

@sweep: @mirado: I feel strange when I read people write in how they pay the subscription but they don't expect anything out of it, that it's not a business proposition for them but instead it's a homage to the patrons. It's very much a business proposition for them so why should it be a one way street? It's not like the membership is a tip jar, otherwise content wouldn't be gated behind it. As gold members we pay in order to get something in return. Maybe I'm too in-tune with the ol' American values of the customer having some sort of rights, but if I'm giving someone money I do expect to have at least a little say in what I get in return for it. While in any other part of the site I enjoy the care free attitude, when it comes down to memberships I do feel like there should be some sort of back and forth relationship. To reiterate for the hundredth time, I love the site and the guys and have nothing but respect for Jeff as an individual and a professional.

Because I have disposable income, I love what these guys do, and too many of the things that I enjoy have gone and died due to lack of support, when just asking for donations might have floated it for at least a little while longer.

This is a much larger deal than it would seem. I also have seen quite a few sites and personalities I've liked go under because they could not afford to continue because the people who watched them every day could not or, in some cases even when given the opportunity, did not give back in any way, and ad revenue wasn't enough (especially Twitch ad revenue. It's downright disgusting how little they pay streamers now. They used to pay way more). That is why if I have the opportunity to pay a bit of money towards something I like, I will.

Heck, there could be no premium features and I would still pay to support the site because I like what they do and want them to continue on with it all.

That's the problem with the internet. People are so used to things appearing to be free that they forget that it costs money to do a lot of this stuff. Yet when given the opportunity to actually pay for the stuff they use, people don't, and in some cases have the gall to call sites or people greedy for doing so.

And on the topic of not listening to user feedback, there was a really great piece from Totalbiscuit on trying to read and listen to feedback. Basically, it boiled down to that so many people are so negative and critical that nothing he could do would please them, so he has stopped reading most venues of feedback because all it does is cause him a great deal of unnecessary stress and has a negative impact on his health. One example was if he made a mistake in a Hearthstone match he knew he would hear no end of criticism for it. Stuff like that. People being petty and awful. I don't normally read reddit but since this was him addressing the people attacking him on his own subreddit thingy I don't really have an option but to link it. It's pretty tough to read and really puts a perspective on just how awful the internet is a lot of the time. http://www.reddit.com/r/Cynicalbrit/comments/1xrx27/in_light_of_tb_abandonning_his_own_subreddit/cfe3rgc

And that's what it comes down to. If GB (or any site for that matter) wanted to take user feedback seriously on a larger scale it would be nigh impossible. For every good piece of feedback there would be so many cases of people being whiny and fickle that it would drive the person in charge insane. You can't please everyone. And that is why we see people saying "bye" when there are people posting large, complainy posts. In many cases, no matter what changes were done they wouldn't have been happy anyway.

#252 Posted by Hunter5024 (5506 posts) -

@aidros said:

Also, god bless you @rorie for being the support person for this site. In my experience with you here, you've been involved, available, and responsive, and I just wanna say I appreciate that and hope you keep doing your thing!

For sure. Rorie was the best thing that happened to the site last year.

#253 Edited by cloudymusic (1041 posts) -

@ben_h said:

And on the topic of not listening to user feedback, there was a really great piece from Totalbiscuit on trying to read and listen to feedback. Basically, it boiled down to that so many people are so negative and critical that nothing he could do would please them, so he has stopped reading most venues of feedback because all it does is cause him a great deal of unnecessary stress and has a negative impact on his health. One example was if he made a mistake in a Hearthstone match he knew he would hear no end of criticism for it. Stuff like that. People being petty and awful. I don't normally read reddit but since this was him addressing the people attacking him on his own subreddit thingy I don't really have an option but to link it. It's pretty tough to read and really puts a perspective on just how awful the internet is a lot of the time. http://www.reddit.com/r/Cynicalbrit/comments/1xrx27/in_light_of_tb_abandonning_his_own_subreddit/cfe3rgc

It's very hard to read that without being more than a little reminded of all of the negative nitpicky comments in every Brad video and every Spelunkin' chat. "Cringeworthy," "painful to watch," "terrible at this game" and whatnot. Taking potshots because the less-experience host isn't pro at your favorite game, or because they're concentrating on trying to talk and be constantly entertaining to thousands of people at a time, all while trying to play the game competently as well. People ought to think a little more about what sort of interaction they're really having with the content producer when they're constantly complaining about stuff like that.

#254 Posted by tread311 (352 posts) -

I find myself not having enough time to consume all of the content on the site so it seems like plenty to me. Some of it has started to get stale but I still try to make enough time to watch most of it.

#255 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3719 posts) -

@hunter5024 said:

@aidros said:

Also, god bless you @rorie for being the support person for this site. In my experience with you here, you've been involved, available, and responsive, and I just wanna say I appreciate that and hope you keep doing your thing!

For sure. Rorie was the best thing that happened to the site last year.

He's been doing a good job. I hope there's some constructive criticism here to take for them and it's nice that someone on the staff sees it.

Like I said previously, just another guy on the team would be huge though so when they say that's coming I think people will see that makes a huge difference on a small team. I'm optimistic. It was a difficult year for us fans, hard to imagine what it was like for them.

#256 Edited by That_Lamer (23 posts) -
@cloudymusic said:

It's very hard to read that without being more than a little reminded of all of the negative nitpicky comments in every Brad video and every Spelunkin' chat. "Cringeworthy," "painful to watch," "terrible at this game" and whatnot. Taking potshots because the less-experience host isn't pro at your favorite game, or because they're concentrating on trying to talk and be constantly entertaining to thousands of people at a time, all while trying to play the game competently as well. People ought to think a little more about what sort of interaction they're really having with the content producer when they're constantly complaining about stuff like that.

Those aren't pot shots, they're criticisms about the watchability of those videos. People are allowed to complain if they're explaining what they find objectionable, and they're doing exactly that. I'm sorry that you disagree, but that doesn't make their criticism any less valid.

Personally I have a real problem with a lot of Brad's content, from the watchability of him stumbling around obliviously in dark/demon souls, to quick looks where he finishes downloading the game and then calls drew and someone else in to do a blind quick look, built entirely on guesswork that is often false. The loadout quick look is genuinely awful and the information he gave is amateur. Between that and Patrick's equally bad hotline miami quick look from a year or two ago, it makes me wonder if this has been happening all along, and I only noticed on these two occasions because I've played and enjoyed those specific games beforehand. It has me wondering if I've been passing up games based on shoddily presented information.

#257 Posted by BanzaiBandito (69 posts) -

I used to be a daily visitor to this site and paid for a sub for two years. Now, I come by maybe once every two/three weeks and cancelled my sub. I came to the conclusion that I don't want to pay people to be cynical about games or to have social justice waiting in every other Patrick article.

Too bad, as I really enjoy listening to Vinny and Drew though. Just wish the rest of the guys didn't shit on everything and drag things down so much.

Best of luck, Bomb Crew. But, not what I'm looking for anymore.

#258 Posted by GERALTITUDE (2857 posts) -

QFT:

But you stick with them because dammit, you've had some times together man! It's that off the cuff nature we all love, isn't it? The beauty of this site is its flexibility. It's different year to year because its direction is defined so heavily by who's here and who isn't.

@beepmachine

#259 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3719 posts) -

I'll be a lifelong subscriber to the site (as long as these guys are here) because they've done a lot for me personally, and I think they are better than the majority of their competitors. They've essentially earned my loyalty, though they'd probably have it anyway.

I understand some of the criticisms here, but they do tend to come around in ebbs and flows, and every time people act like they've been perfect up until now, despite the fact that these threads are yearly occurrences. The problem with many of the complaints are the arrogance or condescending tone. It gets old and effectively kills the point you're arguing.

#260 Posted by Ben_H (3293 posts) -

So what exactly is he supposed to do when playing a game for the first time? Follow a guide? That doesn't sound fun for him or the majority of viewers. If he played through Demon Souls first to prepare it would defeat the entire purpose of Breaking Brad.

I would hazard a guess that the first time most people play through a Souls game, they spend a fair amount of time "stumbling around obliviously". It certainly was the case for me. I'd rather do that and figure things out than robotically follow a guide right off the start. That removes all the fun.

If you want to see someone play a game perfectly, there's plenty of videos of that on Youtube. But that isn't, and never has been what Giant Bomb has been about. Giant Bomb has always taken a lighthearted approach to playing games. They've never taken things too seriously. From the start Quick Looks have never been about them playing perfectly, but about them showing a small segment of a game and talking about it as it happened. When they first started doing Quick Looks, they were under 20 minutes, and even as time went on and they grew to be the much longer videos they are today, the idea remained the same; two or three people sitting down and playing through a game, usually for the first time, and giving their impressions of it. If they play ahead of the Quick Look, it is usually just through the tutorial. That's how it always has been. Brad's Banjo Kazooie Quick Look (one of the original Quick Looks) was him playing through one of the first areas in the game. Likewise with many other early Quick Looks.

And I don't see what was wrong with Patrick and Ryan's Hotline Miami Quick Look. Patrick's play was par for the course for anyone else I've seen playing through a level of Hotline Miami for the first time. It isn't a game where you can just speedrun it off the start. You have to learn the levels first. He had to do that while explaining the game to Ryan and trying to be entertaining. It's not exactly easy to do all three of those things at once.

#261 Edited by TheHBK (5458 posts) -

@hauntingthedark: Damn you just listed why I love the site.

Except it is also why I don't pay a premium. I get more than enough content for free though I am not too into the spelunking with scoops, seems dumb to me or the Dark Souls play. But quicklooks and special live shows like the console launches and the bombcast are more than enough for me. I do need to keep up with wrestling and sports too which is why Drew is a breath of fresh air where he actually cares about fitness.

#263 Edited by Unilad (554 posts) -

@hauntingthedark:

My friend, I completely agree. I've actually just cancelled my renewal as I see no reason to continue.

All the content seems stale. It lacks originality. Fine, the crew may be a original in the sense of their personalities, but even those personalities seem to have staled, or perhaps not stale, but they have almost moulded into one body. I miss Patrick and obviously Ryan (R.I.P) as they were (in their own special ways) immensely original.

The game coverage is not update to date and therefore not relevant. I now consult other gaming pages (not specifically but through a general google search). Whilst the already dubbed 'original' approach to video and articles, it is still no excuse for the laissez faire approach to everything. Patrick's articles are good, but I now find the linked articles or other people's writing technique and general literary style consulting the same story.

The website is also never impartial. It's simply too subjective now, to the point where game footage (or a live demo) can be cut short as somebody doesn't like it and wants to move on. I know that Jeff has come out countless times and stated that all reviews are meant to read by the reader in knowledge of these subjectiveness. Whilst I understand this (and to some extent excuse *google searches game review) I cannot excuse how this has transferred and rubbed-of on the approach to coverage. Much news is covered, but some things are ignored inexcusably. Whilst this is not a great example (yet still relevant) recently NaturalMotion, the makers of CSR Racing, Clumsy Ninja as well as the Euphoria engine (used in titles such as Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV & V) were bought my Zynga.

I must cut this short, but above are just some of the reasons that I fully support the originator's comments and belief.

Peace.

#264 Posted by coribald (309 posts) -

@unilad said:

@hauntingthedark:

My friend, I completely agree. I've actually just cancelled my renewal as I see no reason to continue.

All the content seems stale. It lacks originality. Fine, the crew may be a original in the sense of their personalities, but even those personalities seem to have staled, or perhaps not stale, but they have almost moulded into one body. I miss Patrick and obviously Ryan (R.I.P) as they were (in their own special ways) immensely original.

The game coverage is not update to date and therefore not relevant. I now consult other gaming pages (not specifically but through a general google search). Whilst the already dubbed 'original' approach to video and articles, it is still no excuse for the laissez faire approach to everything. Patrick's articles are good, but I now find the linked articles or other people's writing technique and general literary style consulting the same story.

The website is also never impartial. It's simply too subjective now, to the point where game footage (or a live demo) can be cut short as somebody doesn't like it and wants to move on. I know that Jeff has come out countless times and stated that all reviews are meant to read by the reader in knowledge of these subjectiveness. Whilst I understand this (and to some extent excuse *google searches game review) I cannot excuse how this has transferred and rubbed-of on the approach to coverage. Much news is covered, but some things are ignored inexcusably. Whilst this is not a great example (yet still relevant) recently NaturalMotion, the makers of CSR Racing, Clumsy Ninja as well as the Euphoria engine (used in titles such as Red Dead Redemption and GTA IV & V) were bought my Zynga.

I must cut this short, but above are just some of the reasons that I fully support the originator's comments and belief.

Peace.

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal?

#265 Posted by Mirado (983 posts) -

@humanity said:

@mirado: That is entirely your right to think so but I personally believe this is a very dangerous mindset to have.

What can I say, I'm a dangerous man.

@ben_h said:

This is a much larger deal than it would seem. I also have seen quite a few sites and personalities I've liked go under because they could not afford to continue because the people who watched them every day could not or, in some cases even when given the opportunity, did not give back in any way, and ad revenue wasn't enough (especially Twitch ad revenue. It's downright disgusting how little they pay streamers now. They used to pay way more). That is why if I have the opportunity to pay a bit of money towards something I like, I will.

Heck, there could be no premium features and I would still pay to support the site because I like what they do and want them to continue on with it all.

That's the problem with the internet. People are so used to things appearing to be free that they forget that it costs money to do a lot of this stuff. Yet when given the opportunity to actually pay for the stuff they use, people don't, and in some cases have the gall to call sites or people greedy for doing so.

Yeah, and with the rise of things like Adblock, whatever paltry sum could be made from ad revenue shrinks even further. That's why you are seeing the rise of things like Patreon; as traditional revenue models fall out of favor, more and more people will turn to crowdsourcing their income. And for an entertainer, I think that's wonderful; if you really enjoy what a person does, you should be willing to pay for it, and getting the money directly from the people you are making content for seems like a great arrangement, as long as the volume is there. Hopefully as things advance, the idea that all this stuff can be generated for free will diminish as people start to notice more traditionally funded websites disappear.

#266 Edited by Video_Game_King (35800 posts) -
#267 Posted by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

I don't know I've been a subscriber for 2-3 years not even sure.. but yeah, this year I don't feel like renewing. I don't want to asume running a site/business like this is any easy, I do know nothing of the internals, they may be lacking on resources, people money.. who knows? there is also the fact lets face it AAA gaming is not as big as it used to be.

Said so there is some considerations I think the staff needs to think about... like there is Twitch, there good streams going for free all the time. I know Giantbomb is all about the personality but there is barely any review, preview, or coverage at all..

The dota stream seems like such a waste of time, a self complacent feature honestly, there are actually good players and even funny ones streaming for free on twitch all the time... I don't really see the point on watching brad playing with buddies.. again seems like a self-complacency exercise, more than a well though feature. This dota thing is an example but I think the site has become in a self-complacency exercise for the most part but Pattrick.

Props to Patrick because bar none he is the one producing the most interesting content, you can see him trying and that yields cool content.

#268 Posted by Generic_username (588 posts) -

@alwaysbebombing said:

See you later!

@genfuyung said:

What a joke.

@demoskinos said:

Bye then.

@metalthrashingmatt said:

Deuces

Really, you're making yourselves look way worse than the OP when posting shit like this on a discussion board for.. you know, discussing stuff.

The guy specifically said he wasn't interested in reading about people disagreeing with him. That's cutting the conversation off at the knees right from the start.

And as far as his points go, whatever. The site as it is now clearly isn't for you. It's not shitty content, it's just content that doesn't appeal to you directly anymore. To me, Giantbomb is first a personality website, and second a video game website. So honestly, the site as it is now appeals more to me than it did before (outside of Ryan's passing. I will miss his presence forever.)

The site HAS changed, but I don't think you can outright say whether or not it's "shit" or whatever. It's just not to your liking anymore.

#269 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4513 posts) -

When I found Giant Bomb it had video content like 2 Human Video Thing, TANG/WU-TANG, various mailbags that were more code for talking about stuff than actually opening mail, quick looks that weren't an hour and a half long, and a generally more happy and engaged crew. I think stuff like UPF and TNT is what destroys a man's soul. There's no camaraderie on that couch; there's no engagement and no excitement. Nobody is genuinely interested in what the other guy is playing. The impression that I get is that everyone is just quietly enduring this thing until it's five o'clock and they can go home.

The worst thing about the live streams is that, especially for UPF, Whiskey Media Happy Hour worked because it was everybody. You had Ryan breaking Will Smith's balls and engaging Tony and Babs in comics, you had Jeff being a creeper with some upskirt anime game, and you had Rorie/Alex talking hot game about movies. I am not unaware that the glue that held Happy Hour together was Ryan, but I think what made that show a lot of fun originally was that it was a variety show. UPF tries to do the same thing except with a PC and a Steam library. Nobody branches out; nobody talks about something going on in their lives or something they find interesting. It's just two hours of dudes sitting down and staring forward (and one occasionally falling asleep).

I don't fault the guys for being like this, though. I mean, in the grand scheme of things I doubt they have the manpower or authority to dictate when and what they do. A weekly live stream where everybody comes together to play something they like is a cool idea once a month or even bi-monthly. You can't do it every week because people run out of games or things to talk about. If Giant Bomb abandoned all of the streams it'd probably allow Vinny and Drew to focus on actually making stuff instead of flipping a switch and reading a book for two hours (or whatever happens in that control room). And really, that's what I want; I want Giant Bomb to make stuff again and not be slaves to the "stream games stream games stream games" mentality that has overtaken the general gaming community.

Just my buck-fifty on the subject. I may not agree with the OP on a lot of things, but we do agree on a couple. I don't think it's laziness so much as people being stretched far too thin, though.

#270 Edited by Humanity (8712 posts) -

@mirado said:

@humanity said:

@mirado: That is entirely your right to think so but I personally believe this is a very dangerous mindset to have.

What can I say, I'm a dangerous man.

@ben_h said:

This is a much larger deal than it would seem. I also have seen quite a few sites and personalities I've liked go under because they could not afford to continue because the people who watched them every day could not or, in some cases even when given the opportunity, did not give back in any way, and ad revenue wasn't enough (especially Twitch ad revenue. It's downright disgusting how little they pay streamers now. They used to pay way more). That is why if I have the opportunity to pay a bit of money towards something I like, I will.

Heck, there could be no premium features and I would still pay to support the site because I like what they do and want them to continue on with it all.

That's the problem with the internet. People are so used to things appearing to be free that they forget that it costs money to do a lot of this stuff. Yet when given the opportunity to actually pay for the stuff they use, people don't, and in some cases have the gall to call sites or people greedy for doing so.

Yeah, and with the rise of things like Adblock, whatever paltry sum could be made from ad revenue shrinks even further. That's why you are seeing the rise of things like Patreon; as traditional revenue models fall out of favor, more and more people will turn to crowdsourcing their income. And for an entertainer, I think that's wonderful; if you really enjoy what a person does, you should be willing to pay for it, and getting the money directly from the people you are making content for seems like a great arrangement, as long as the volume is there. Hopefully as things advance, the idea that all this stuff can be generated for free will diminish as people start to notice more traditionally funded websites disappear.

Paying for quality content is fine with me. People should be reward for their work. The point I was making was that when you do begin asking for money up front to view the content you make, there should be some minimal responsibility to the viewer. Especially when you are one of the only sites to hide your content behind paywalls. I'm not saying they should be slaves to the viewing public, but at times it feels like Jeff is almost counter-reacting to what the users are asking for. The "fuck you were gonna do what we want" attitude is a double edged sword.

Online
#271 Edited by Marokai (2785 posts) -

I feel like I agree more than anything else on the Bombcast losing a lot of its appeal in the last few months. The console launches kept me stuck to it because I wanted to keep hearing about important news and their take on it, but since the disorganized disaster that was the GOTY podcasts (which are usually my favorite pieces of content in the year), it's been clear that they simply don't have their shit together and have been flying by the seat of their pants for months. Since the new year, all energy has just been sucked out of the bombcasts and I think I've only listened to one of them, and I skipped through segments. The bombcast has become so devoid of game content and so low on energy that listening to it has almost become depressing.

In the last couple months I've noticed myself fall away from Giant Bomb and consume much more content from people like Two Best Friends on YouTube as well as their podcast, among other small sources of entertainment from Twitch and the like. It's become abundantly obvious that this problem isn't exactly imagined, either; Jeff seemed to quietly acknowledge the site has become rickety (speaking of rickety, this site has been consistently busted in one way or another for a year now) and in need of a shake up to get things back on an energetic and more productive note. That shake up could be what makes or breaks this site going forward.

When in doubt, just go outside your comfort zone. I feel like that's been the best thing Patrick's brought to the site, he has occasionally pushed the others outside their comfort zones, and right now, Giant Bomb desperately needs to do that. Variety, variety, variety. I love the Souls series, Dark Souls is probably one of my favorite games of all time, but I'm really over the Souls content that has inundated this site for the last few months. It's all just been very "safe." Brad turning down Vinny's suggestion for the two of them playing through Kingdom Hearts is something I still haven't forgiven. It would've at least been something very different.

#272 Posted by Dalai (6978 posts) -

@marokai: I really think Ryan's passing hurt the Bombcast more than I had anticipated. He really kept the pace and excitement going for the entire 2-3 hours while the Jeffcasts are typically slower and less energetic like you said. Vinnycasts are actually pretty awesome, but too few and far between.

I am more than willing to forgive any shortcomings in 2013 because of all the massive and irreversible changes that occurred, but 2014 should be a new beginning and hopefully that means some new blood in the Giant Bomb office. One or two new hires can make a difference, but it really depends on whether these hypothetical people can mesh well with the current staff.

The OP might have been too blunt with his assessment, but many of his points are valid and shouldn't be ignored or pushed off.

#273 Edited by Hosstile17 (762 posts) -

Not every site is for everyone. Maybe you aged out of it or have grown to have different tastes. No worries. Best of luck!

#274 Posted by Clonedzero (4038 posts) -

Yup, the site is not perfect and i find it a bit insane when people jump blindly to defend against any criticism. Like last weeks podcast vinny hosted i thought he ruined the entire podcast with all the music and sound effects. I said so in a comment and everyone got super pissy. "You hate change!" "get out of here then!"

Unprofessional Fridays is completely hit or miss for me. Some of them are extremely boring and even frustrating. I swear if they start doing that mailbag bullshit again where they open a food package and spend 45 minutes trying different chocolate on a livestream im unsubbing right then. That was a trend for awhile and god....

I love the site and the staff but it has its problems and when they do stuff i dont like or enjoy, i will bring it up. I am a paying customer afterall.

And yes the podcasts lately has had way too much rambling bullshit about nothing. I'm sorry i dont care about woodworking or vinny's kid. Thats just me. I've had less and less desire to listen to them lately. Often they start feeling like a chore to sit through, so i don't anymore and thats a bad thing and should be addressed.

Remember guys, criticizing the guys and content is not "hating" or "insulting" i mean sure if you're a dick about it then it is. But don't jump down peoples throats just because they're making valid criticisms. The first few posts in this thread is disgusting.

#275 Posted by Landmine (524 posts) -

@hauntingthedark:

I'm a bit confused. You are posting your misgivings regarding the site on the sites discussion board yet you don't want to read the dissenting opinions? You know that yours is not the most popular opinion, as you've stated. Which is fine, an opinion is an opinion. Although this causes me to question your claim that you are not trolling. So here are a few questions for you:

  • What is the purpose of your post?
  • Is the point just to stir the pot?
  • Are you only looking for those that are of like mind to validate the way you feel?
  • Are you interested in helping make the site better?

"I am sure to get cut down in the comments if anyone is that bothered but I doubt I will be that interested in reading views on how I am wrong. As I said before, I am not trolling, I am giving an honest opinion about the state of the website."

I would've been more receptive to the points you raised and willing to discuss them if you didn't start off your OP stating how close minded you intended to be. Stating that you were "giving an honest opinion" instead of saying "my honest opinion" is essentially saying that your opinion trumps that of everyone else. I read that as a you are right and I am wrong, end of discussion. You are raising your perceived issues which you then don't want to discuss with others and offer no solutions. Essentially this thread is pointless.

#276 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4513 posts) -

@clonedzero said:

Yup, the site is not perfect and i find it a bit insane when people jump blindly to defend against any criticism. Like last weeks podcast vinny hosted i thought he ruined the entire podcast with all the music and sound effects. I said so in a comment and everyone got super pissy. "You hate change!" "get out of here then!"

At the risk of derailing the thread; why didn't you enjoy the music editing that went into it? I found it added a lot of atmosphere to the show and it helped cover up the bits where nobody talks because nobody is that interested in talking which is sadly a recurring event over the last several months.

Not telling you you're wrong or that you hate change or that you should leave, but I'm curious about this. I've seen several people mention it.

#277 Posted by Clonedzero (4038 posts) -

@oldirtybearon: Well i found the music to be extremely distracting, especially during the EVE story. And the couple of times where they played a full 2-3 minute long song just grinded the entire thing to a halt and it didnt add anything to it. The music wasn't really fitting, funny or interesting. It was just generic music from their library.

I dont think it should be a 3 hour podcast. Maybe when the discussion warrants 3 hours when theres alot to actually talk about. But come on, 45 minute woodworking rambling where they barely know what they're talking about (trust me they barely know wtf they're talking about) is not entertaining to me.

Instead of editing in music, they should edit out pointless discussion of wildly offtopic things. Or at least condense it down to a more focused 2 hours rather than a rambling aimless 3 hours.

#278 Posted by Athadam (672 posts) -

I take from reading various posts that different people want different type of content from the site, which is totally fine. We can't change each other's preferences.

But instead of fighting about who is right or wrong, I think we should try to come to understand what other GB users want out of the site. I think the biggest common ground that we all have is that we all want better produced content from the team.

2014 will be the year that Giantbomb grows again. But I suggest that the added manpower go into having another "behind the scenes" video employee, who can man the tricaster and help edit/produce for the main crew.

For me personally, Drew's edit of the Iceland trip is some of the best content GB has to offer. Imagine someone who has Vinny's skills with the tricaster, while both Vinny and Drew are on camera.

#279 Edited by ashkev (33 posts) -

The one point I will agree with here is that I wish Brad would contribute more to the site. I'm really over hearing him talk about nothing but DOTA on the Podcast and then promptly going glassy eyed on UPF with very little to no preparation on his games. Breaking Brad is a good series but mostly due to the Vinny/Brad combo.

I also miss ILM but mostly that has to do with missing Ryan :(

EDIT: And major props to Patrick recently. Hes single handedly pumping out more content for this site than everyone combined. Without his content propping up the site, it would feel pretty barren.

#280 Posted by baka_shinji17 (184 posts) -

I discovered GiantBomb about a year ago and subscribed only a few months later. What Drew me to the site was how professional and mature the team was, not to mention the great quality of the content. Yet despite this professionalism they did not take themselves too seriously, unlike other gaming centric sites *couch*Kotaku*cough* and also, they were not crass or juvenile, the polar opposite of Destructoid.

I only started heavily visiting the site shortly before Ryan passed away and honestly, I didn't know how to handle it. But since then I have devoured Quick Looks, Endurance Runs and all the other craziness of GB. In doing so I see that these guys really care about what they do and what's more, they care about the people they are providing this content for, non-subscribers and subscribers alike.

I am a bit of a lurker but from what I can tell the GiantBomb community is one of the best on the net. I struggle with severe depression and GB has been there a lot for me, as silly as that may seem. In many ways I am living vicariously though this site but that's OK with me. All I hope is that Jeff, Drew, Patrick, Vinny, Brad and Rorie continue to do a great job.

#281 Posted by littleemille (29 posts) -

I'm a big fan of the content that is currently coming out of the site. Long-format podcasts are really fun to listen to for me.

@hauntingthedark: I can understand if you don't like how the site has changed, nothing is for everyone. You seem like you actually care about this place and so I don't join in with those that would bid you farewell. Maybe a paid sub just isn't for you.

#282 Edited by LiquidPrince (15833 posts) -

It's funny because I think there has been an increase in content recently. Sure I don't like all of it (I personally don't care much for Day Z and Arma) but there is a ton that I do like. The Breaking Brad stuff has been pretty great and the podcasts continue to be pretty entertaining for the most part. If you really think that there is no good content being released, then it's as simple as not resubscribing. I don't mean that in a "well if you don't like it, get the hell out" sort of way either. I just simply mean that you shouldn't subscribe until you feel that there is a reason to do so. I get a ton of entertainment out of the Bomb Squad, and so if I can help them out in some slight way then I will.

#283 Posted by Philanthropy (142 posts) -

they are still settling in to the new office

#284 Edited by RoyaleWifCheese (540 posts) -

I have been with the Giant Bomb dudes since the days of Gamespot. Even at its lowest point, this is still the best game site on the internet. I'm happy with whatever direction they decide to take their website and I'm happy to support them.

I work in a service industry. It's one thing to be unsatisfied and to air grievances, but the OP's nitpicking is akin to standing in the middle of a crowded store shouting "...and this is the list of reasons why I will never spend money here ever again!"

If you're really that unhappy, do what customers do when they're unhappy and take your business elsewhere.

It's unfortunate that you're unsatisfied, but that's really all I can tell you.

#285 Posted by Abendlaender (2733 posts) -

@nev said:

I think Giant Bomb is pretty fantastic still. I do constantly miss Random PC Game, though...

Yeah, RPG was such a fantastic feature. Would be interesting to see how a Vinny/Rorie RPG would look like.

#286 Posted by Splandon (15 posts) -

I consume a fair amount of content from other sites, but I still find myself back here at Giant Bomb more than anywhere else. It's not just the personalities that sell it for me, it's this weird intangible attitude and distinct lack of navel gazing that I appreciate. Not that I don't think those conversations occur, I'm sure they do, but I'm glad there's a place where I can watch people I dig play games. And while that stuff absolutely happens on Twitch and YouTube, the signal to noise ratio is much different, in my opinion. The criticism is good and probably ultimately healthy, but I prefer what these duders do to anyone else. Also, my macbook wanted to correct "duders" to udders which is great.

#287 Edited by wjb (1620 posts) -
@oldirtybearon said:

I think stuff like UPF and TNT is what destroys a man's soul. There's no camaraderie on that couch; there's no engagement and no excitement. Nobody is genuinely interested in what the other guy is playing. The impression that I get is that everyone is just quietly enduring this thing until it's five o'clock and they can go home.

UPF tries to do the same thing except with a PC and a Steam library. Nobody branches out; nobody talks about something going on in their lives or something they find interesting. It's just two hours of dudes sitting down and staring forward (and one occasionally falling asleep).

I don't fault the guys for being like this, though. I mean, in the grand scheme of things I doubt they have the manpower or authority to dictate when and what they do. A weekly live stream where everybody comes together to play something they like is a cool idea once a month or even bi-monthly. You can't do it every week because people run out of games or things to talk about. If Giant Bomb abandoned all of the streams it'd probably allow Vinny and Drew to focus on actually making stuff instead of flipping a switch and reading a book for two hours (or whatever happens in that control room). And really, that's what I want; I want Giant Bomb to make stuff again and not be slaves to the "stream games stream games stream games" mentality that has overtaken the general gaming community.

I understand. I wish they actually took some time to brainstorm better ideas, but they probably have and decided streaming games was "low risk, high reward." Which, fair enough, I guess.

I still enjoy UPF, for the most part. There are some great moments occasionally, but not every week. Like I said in this thread, it's got to be hard to constantly entertain everyone all the time, but even if a game is a dud -- you're right -- they can at least try to overcome it with their enthusiasm. Rorie and Alexis (when he's there) usually keep the conversation going, so bless them, but there are several times when it looks like half of them don't want to be there (especially when one falls asleep "on the clock" multiple times). It's hard to sympathize when a lot of people here have full-time positions that aren't their dream jobs, especially ones with physical labor. I love Brad, but it sucks for the fans when he's only interested in his stuff or when he just straight up falls asleep on camera. If Jeff took Will Smith aside for wearing flip-flops to work, apparently, then I'm surprised this hasn't been settled. Even if I liked the guy and was a long-time colleague, I would still think, "This looks bad to the people who help keeps us afloat."

Again, UPF would probably go a little better if there was some planning involved. Several comments during the show give the audience the impression that they think of a lot of choices literally minutes before showtime (except for Drew and sometimes Vinny when he played FMV games). I know they have work to do during the week, but I would imagine it could at least be something on their minds.

#288 Posted by Datajack (86 posts) -

“When someone says “You’ve Changed,” It simply means you’ve stopped living your life their way.”

#289 Posted by That_Lamer (23 posts) -
@ben_h said:

So what exactly is he supposed to do when playing a game for the first time? Follow a guide? That doesn't sound fun for him or the majority of viewers. If he played through Demon Souls first to prepare it would defeat the entire purpose of Breaking Brad.

I would hazard a guess that the first time most people play through a Souls game, they spend a fair amount of time "stumbling around obliviously". It certainly was the case for me. I'd rather do that and figure things out than robotically follow a guide right off the start. That removes all the fun.

If you want to see someone play a game perfectly, there's plenty of videos of that on Youtube. But that isn't, and never has been what Giant Bomb has been about. Giant Bomb has always taken a lighthearted approach to playing games. They've never taken things too seriously. From the start Quick Looks have never been about them playing perfectly, but about them showing a small segment of a game and talking about it as it happened. When they first started doing Quick Looks, they were under 20 minutes, and even as time went on and they grew to be the much longer videos they are today, the idea remained the same; two or three people sitting down and playing through a game, usually for the first time, and giving their impressions of it. If they play ahead of the Quick Look, it is usually just through the tutorial. That's how it always has been. Brad's Banjo Kazooie Quick Look (one of the original Quick Looks) was him playing through one of the first areas in the game. Likewise with many other early Quick Looks.

And I don't see what was wrong with Patrick and Ryan's Hotline Miami Quick Look. Patrick's play was par for the course for anyone else I've seen playing through a level of Hotline Miami for the first time. It isn't a game where you can just speedrun it off the start. You have to learn the levels first. He had to do that while explaining the game to Ryan and trying to be entertaining. It's not exactly easy to do all three of those things at once.

First of all Brad could actually pay attention to anything going on around him. Second, he could stop blaming everything but himself for his hardships. Especially when those hardships are being invaded after humanizing. He completely shit talked the one guy who invaded, as if it was some dark, nefarious action and not the consequence of his own. Being open to other methods would also be a big improvement over NAH FUCK THAT MAN THAT AINT ME.

Also you somehow took my gripe in the direction of player performance, which isn't at all what I'm complaining about. I've long reconciled with the fact that most of the crew is bad at video games. What I was saying is that the INFORMATION given was faulty. Patrick's hotline miami quicklook wasn't bad because he's bad at video games, it was bad because he went into it blind, then made guesses about the mechanics and design of the game that were incorrect, yet presented them as if they weren't. I haven't seen the quicklook in a very long time so I can't give specifics, but I want to say that much of it would have been immediately made apparent had they actually played (or maybe paid attention to?) the tutorial.

Brad couldn't even present a solid answer to Vinny's question of "do you have a finite amount of ammo?" even though that should be something readily apparent to you within the first 3 minutes of playing. Even though he could have actually stopped right there and said "You know what? Let's find out." Instead he hemmed and hawed for a minute. Despite sitting on 12k blutes, Brad couldn't even be bothered to go into the game beforehand and understand how the EXTREMELY straight forward tech tree functions. I'm not sure he even went to the tech tree at all, because to Vinny's question of "is there any defensive stuff?" he replied "...noo?" and it took a fair amount of time for VINNY to point out to him the equipment tree, where in fact said defensive tech resides.

Frankly, if this is how quicklooks have "always been" and I just haven't noticed until now, then I've lost all confidence in the product, because I expected a level of understanding about the games they look at that is greater than handing said games to a 10 year old and asking them to tell me what it is on the fly.

#290 Posted by Fuwano (106 posts) -

I don't understand people that come here looking for the BBC News of video games. Aside from Jar Time, if you want to get Jeff's serious takes you are better off following him on Twitter/Tumbler/Mixler/etc.

This site works due to the personalities here. For me, part of the appeal is that they are largely of my generation. I'd say this site is significantly less "wacky" than it was in the Happy Hour days (check out creeper-cam Jeff). I don't see there being some 'golden age' of solemnity at GB. If you want "normal gaming moments" then it seems like you just want Twitch. Good luck to you, but Giant Bomb is what it is. If it doesn't appeal to you, try something new! :-)

#291 Posted by bibz (35 posts) -

This is the only site that deals around video games that isn't all so dry and benign like a bunch of haunted nerds. Except for that haunted nerd segment. And the webcam shit. The guys in the office are the only part of any site that deals around people, and video games, that isn't dry and boring. There are plenty of sites out there that are boredom ventures into the mundane. I'm on team personality myself

#292 Posted by RVonE (4601 posts) -

@samstrife said:

At this point Giantbomb has two types of fans. Those who believe the site is at an all time low and needs reinvigorating and those who will defend the site until their last breath.

What about me? I'm too detached from everything and too constantly tired to take any stance.

Yes, but you have a wet voice.

#293 Posted by ttthrasher (49 posts) -

If you want straight-edge content then I think you might be on the wrong site. Jesus, do you really want to watch them play and talk about Titanfall for 3 hours? That was the most boring thing I've seen in a long time.

I much prefer them goofing off and playing garbage, because they have such a good sense of humor. I consider this site the MST3k of games, and I'm loving the avant garde/slapdash nature of the new video content.

Some guy on page 1 suggested that Brad was just pretending to fall asleep sometimes... I don't think you know Brad very well.

#294 Edited by OllyOxenFree (4970 posts) -

I do miss the amount of effort they would put into a single video.

But yeah, they don't have a lot of manpower right now to produce such content. I sadly had to unsubscribe due to financial reasons (being a student, even saving $5 a month is a big deal for me.) I was greatly enjoying Breaking Brad: Demon's Souls though.

#295 Edited by mpgeist (593 posts) -

The only problem I've ever had with Giant Bomb is the amount of snark can be overbearing sometimes. I know it's the Giant Bomb calling card and I get that they absolutely hate something like Final Fantasy XIII and it's sequels(I'm not a big fan myself), but is it really necessary to write some snobbish comment for every trailer for them? If they hate it that much, why post the trailer at all? I can't wait for the Quick Look tomorrow where they spend another hour railing against Lightning Returns. Don't get me wrong, I like the personality and the snark, but sometimes enough is enough.

#297 Posted by Ben_H (3293 posts) -

@ben_h said:

So what exactly is he supposed to do when playing a game for the first time? Follow a guide? That doesn't sound fun for him or the majority of viewers. If he played through Demon Souls first to prepare it would defeat the entire purpose of Breaking Brad.

I would hazard a guess that the first time most people play through a Souls game, they spend a fair amount of time "stumbling around obliviously". It certainly was the case for me. I'd rather do that and figure things out than robotically follow a guide right off the start. That removes all the fun.

If you want to see someone play a game perfectly, there's plenty of videos of that on Youtube. But that isn't, and never has been what Giant Bomb has been about. Giant Bomb has always taken a lighthearted approach to playing games. They've never taken things too seriously. From the start Quick Looks have never been about them playing perfectly, but about them showing a small segment of a game and talking about it as it happened. When they first started doing Quick Looks, they were under 20 minutes, and even as time went on and they grew to be the much longer videos they are today, the idea remained the same; two or three people sitting down and playing through a game, usually for the first time, and giving their impressions of it. If they play ahead of the Quick Look, it is usually just through the tutorial. That's how it always has been. Brad's Banjo Kazooie Quick Look (one of the original Quick Looks) was him playing through one of the first areas in the game. Likewise with many other early Quick Looks.

And I don't see what was wrong with Patrick and Ryan's Hotline Miami Quick Look. Patrick's play was par for the course for anyone else I've seen playing through a level of Hotline Miami for the first time. It isn't a game where you can just speedrun it off the start. You have to learn the levels first. He had to do that while explaining the game to Ryan and trying to be entertaining. It's not exactly easy to do all three of those things at once.

First of all Brad could actually pay attention to anything going on around him. Second, he could stop blaming everything but himself for his hardships. Especially when those hardships are being invaded after humanizing. He completely shit talked the one guy who invaded, as if it was some dark, nefarious action and not the consequence of his own. Being open to other methods would also be a big improvement over NAH FUCK THAT MAN THAT AINT ME.

Also you somehow took my gripe in the direction of player performance, which isn't at all what I'm complaining about. I've long reconciled with the fact that most of the crew is bad at video games. What I was saying is that the INFORMATION given was faulty. Patrick's hotline miami quicklook wasn't bad because he's bad at video games, it was bad because he went into it blind, then made guesses about the mechanics and design of the game that were incorrect, yet presented them as if they weren't. I haven't seen the quicklook in a very long time so I can't give specifics, but I want to say that much of it would have been immediately made apparent had they actually played (or maybe paid attention to?) the tutorial.

Brad couldn't even present a solid answer to Vinny's question of "do you have a finite amount of ammo?" even though that should be something readily apparent to you within the first 3 minutes of playing. Even though he could have actually stopped right there and said "You know what? Let's find out." Instead he hemmed and hawed for a minute. Despite sitting on 12k blutes, Brad couldn't even be bothered to go into the game beforehand and understand how the EXTREMELY straight forward tech tree functions. I'm not sure he even went to the tech tree at all, because to Vinny's question of "is there any defensive stuff?" he replied "...noo?" and it took a fair amount of time for VINNY to point out to him the equipment tree, where in fact said defensive tech resides.

Frankly, if this is how quicklooks have "always been" and I just haven't noticed until now, then I've lost all confidence in the product, because I expected a level of understanding about the games they look at that is greater than handing said games to a 10 year old and asking them to tell me what it is on the fly.

You're far too down the negativity hole to properly address because you'll just attack anything I say anyway so I'll just say what you're looking for is not what Giant Bomb is. I'll also say try playing a game you've never touched before for the first time in front of thousands of people live and not make mistakes from feeling the pressure. I know I would screw up a ton. As would most people.

This guy summed this all up perfectly:

@fuwano said:

I don't understand people that come here looking for the BBC News of video games.

Exactly! Giant Bomb is more akin to the more recent seasons of Top Gear, where, while it is still about cars (only, now more just about cars the hosts are interested in. Not like the old days where they would review lots of cheap cars), it is just as much about the personalities of the show. Hence why the Bombcast has transformed in the way it has.

#298 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

@clonedzero said:

Yup, the site is not perfect and i find it a bit insane when people jump blindly to defend against any criticism. Like last weeks podcast vinny hosted i thought he ruined the entire podcast with all the music and sound effects. I said so in a comment and everyone got super pissy. "You hate change!" "get out of here then!"

Unprofessional Fridays is completely hit or miss for me. Some of them are extremely boring and even frustrating. I swear if they start doing that mailbag bullshit again where they open a food package and spend 45 minutes trying different chocolate on a livestream im unsubbing right then. That was a trend for awhile and god....

I love the site and the staff but it has its problems and when they do stuff i dont like or enjoy, i will bring it up. I am a paying customer afterall.

And yes the podcasts lately has had way too much rambling bullshit about nothing. I'm sorry i dont care about woodworking or vinny's kid. Thats just me. I've had less and less desire to listen to them lately. Often they start feeling like a chore to sit through, so i don't anymore and thats a bad thing and should be addressed.

Remember guys, criticizing the guys and content is not "hating" or "insulting" i mean sure if you're a dick about it then it is. But don't jump down peoples throats just because they're making valid criticisms. The first few posts in this thread is disgusting.

Exactly! Like the fact some people is taking the time to write more than a paragraph with thoughts (regardless of their writing skill/quality) only show that they care, it should be taken as a compliment not as "hate".

Heck I usually don't write more than a paragraph to answer clients request on my job, and I took the time to write 2 paragraph about what I feel it can be improved, I did that because I care... hopefully I will keep caring about this site in the future.

#299 Edited by Video_Game_King (35800 posts) -

@rvone:

That doesn't apply to text, though. (I wish it could. "Wet writing voice" would be a great advertiseable gimmick.)

#300 Posted by Brodehouse (9518 posts) -

I'm in some marketing and consumer behaviour courses, they're by no means an area of strength, but they are current. And the idea I've seen proposed here is that if you're an unhappy customer who has actively decided to stop using a product, rather than express your concerns and show demand for the kind of product you want, you should shut up because expressing the reasons why you've decided to stop using the product is rude. It's not important for Jeff or Patrick or CBSi to see what content people what and what content turns them off, and make decisions based on that, it's important that they decide what they want and you either buy it or disappear. Because that's a solid consumer relationship.

The reasons why people don't subscribe are as important as the reasons they do. The OP's money isn't worth any less than yours just because you're completely satisfied by the current product.

The amazing thing is the same people who are leading the van for Giant Bomb will cry bloody murder about any unhappiness they have with a product they got from a publisher, or a television network, or a movie studio. With Giant Bomb, the rules apparently change entirely. No problem at all saying "I'm not playing X anymore and here's why in not so pleasant tones" but when they hear someone bad-talk the Giant Bomb, that's personal and rude and "it's not for you so maybe you should leave". Guess which set of standards will lead to better product, guess which ones lead to stagnation.