Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) 1 year, 4 months ago

Poll: Halo 4 Designer calls Hideo Kojima a sexist manbaby (492 votes)

He's right, and he's right to say so. 15%
He has a point, but should have just kept his mouth shut. 10%
STOP TALKING ABOUT SEXISM! I'm so sick of all of this! I don't care! 34%
He's right, Cortana is tasteful and non-sexualized. 13%
Well, looking at Cortana's current appearance suggests he's a giant hypocrite. 57%

http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/06/halo-4-design-calls-out-kojimas-recent-sexy-character-quotes-brands-it-disgusting/

The actual quotes:

I don't care if this gets me in trouble. This character design is disgusting. Our industry should be better than this.

Industry is full of man babies. Ugh.

#1 Edited by Video_Game_King (36271 posts) -

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

#2 Posted by Oscar__Explosion (2462 posts) -

That evolution of Cortana image was exactly what I was going to post as I read the 1st post.

#3 Edited by Salarn (469 posts) -

#4 Posted by Blu3V3nom07 (3804 posts) -

David Ellis said it.

#5 Posted by Abendlaender (2904 posts) -

That Cortana thing kinda undermines his argument but yeah...I don't know. I don't find the design particularly "sexy" just plain....stupid. How should I take this character serious, it just looks dumb. Kinda like that Resident Evil: Revelations character.

I MEAN COME ON

I dunno, in my opinion this is neither sexy nor offensive, just stupid and pretty bad design.

#6 Posted by BigJeffrey (5162 posts) -

They just added graphics to a block character model. The Quiet character just looks dumb.

#7 Posted by Animasta (14744 posts) -

regardless of how sexist kojima is (and if he was literally telling someone to make her more erotic, then who knows) that character design is really really bad.

like, seriously? She can't find a spare pair of pants?

#8 Edited by Yummylee (22658 posts) -
@video_game_king said:

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

Not to mention Meryl and EVA. Though there's no denying that Kojima loves putting in a lot of pervy stuff in MGS. It definitely seems like it's been getting more... prominent as they go on, however. Like how you can (optionally) go on a 'date' with Paz--a 16 year old--in Peace Walker and then watch her and Snake get busy under a cardboard box...

Also, deja vu...

#9 Posted by DeadeyeMcCoy (261 posts) -

I don't care about sexualized character designs so long as that design is serviceable, but Quiet just looks stupid. And I could have sworn she was wearing cargo pants or some shit in that one really long MGS5 trailer back during E3, though I may just be mistaken. It's really the torn pantyhose that kind of breaks the whole thing for me.

#11 Posted by Gaff (1924 posts) -

Where's the "He has a point, but should've worded it slightly better" option?

Online
#12 Edited by ThePhantomnaut (6201 posts) -

That person is probably mistaken since it's likely a Yoji Shinkawa design.

#13 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7098 posts) -

@animasta said:

regardless of how sexist kojima is (and if he was literally telling someone to make her more erotic, then who knows) that character design is really really bad.

like, seriously? She can't find a spare pair of pants?

She was busy blowing dudes heads off with a sniper rifle, probably. You don't know what it's like over there in [REDACTED].

#14 Posted by Pie (7119 posts) -

@gaff said:

Where's the "He has a point, but should've worded it slightly better" option?

Dude this is the internet. In the words of Vinnny "on the internet everything is either the best or the worst"

#15 Posted by DarthOrange (3921 posts) -

To be fair Kojima likes to sexualize both the men and the women. Did we forget about naked Raiden? At least Kojima is up front about what he is doing. Also David Ellis is nobody and probably just looking for attention. What exactly has he done to move this industry forward again? His diction makes him seem like a dick hole.

#16 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) -

@animasta said:

regardless of how sexist kojima is (and if he was literally telling someone to make her more erotic, then who knows) that character design is really really bad.

like, seriously? She can't find a spare pair of pants?

Kojima’s translator said this when questioned about the tweeted remarks: “What he’s really trying to do is create unique characters, and one is of course Quiet. She’s a really unique character, and he wanted to add that sexiness. So it wasn’t very erotic but more of the sexy.”

If even Kojima's translator is using the phrase "more of the sexy," I'd say chances are good that something was being lost in translation.

My opinion is if a character design like this appeared in Battlefield, or Call of Duty, or any other modern military games that was shooting for "realism," it would be completely inappropriate. Kojima's games are far more stylish in their character designs, so they could get away with it. And I say that as someone who isn't a fan of Kojima or the metal Metal Gear series.

I certainly think Kojima's character design makes more sense than giving an artificial intelligence increasingly larger cup sizes with each new game.

@gaff said:

Where's the "He has a point, but should've worded it slightly better" option?

Good point. I wish I would have added that. For now, I'd just vote option A if that's how you feel.

Seriously, it's fine if you just intend to preach to the choir, but terms such as "man-babies" aren't going to win you any followers.

#17 Posted by cmblasko (1385 posts) -

As much as I love MGS and Kojima I totally agree with David Ellis. Ever since MGS4 in particular those games have been filled with a staggering amount of childish fanservice.

However, yeah, the guy shouldn't be slinging stones considering his game sexed up Cortana so much.

#18 Posted by Video_Game_King (36271 posts) -

@yummylee said:

Like how you can (optionally) go on a 'date' with Paz--a 16 year old--in Peace Walker and then watch her and Snake get busy under a cardboard box...

Are you saying that the exclamation mark could have another meaning?

#19 Edited by BigJeffrey (5162 posts) -

That person is probably mistaken since it's likely a Yoji Shinkawa design.

#20 Posted by Hunter5024 (6064 posts) -

There's a difference between sexiness and sexism. I wish people didn't lob around the word sexism so freely. I'm sick of arguing about this though. That character design is admittedly pretty stupid. If they'd wanted to make the character sexy, there were much better ways to go about it then having her dress that way.

#21 Edited by McGhee (6075 posts) -

There's nothing wrong with saying "make this one character more erotic." I love how Polygon incorrectly reported this story saying that Kojima said to make all the characters more erotic when he was really just talking about one.

Also:

#22 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (3142 posts) -

The Halo 4 guy actually weakens the point another person could have made because now the discussion has to go into Cortana as well. But, here is the thing...I'm not going to buy the game anyway...never planned to. Hideo Kojima is a terrible producer of games with stories, he's a walking, talking idiot with a a sadly out-sized soapbox to stand upon.

#23 Posted by Brodehouse (10239 posts) -

Once again, sexualization is not sexism. And before "but Big Boss is fully dressed!" realize that how men and women are sexualized, or show sexual value, is completely different and ethically neutral. Especially since erryone has their own thing that turns their crank.

Whether it contributes positively to the fiction is its own question, but I'll add that the series has always been pretty sexually risqué, at least for the medium. I think he's pretty much admitted that the later entries in the series were pretty much entirely about men's toned, athletic, glorious asses.

#24 Posted by ThePhantomnaut (6201 posts) -

@thephantomnaut said:

That person is probably mistaken since it's likely a Yoji Shinkawa design.

Regardless, Shinkawa-san still has more direct involvement in designing Quiet as is that what Kojima-san is publicly conveying.

#25 Edited by GERALTITUDE (3660 posts) -

Kojima has his reasons, duh. I'm sure there's a perfectly good explanation...

Also not nearly enough poll options.

#26 Edited by TruthTellah (9531 posts) -

@mcghee said:

There's nothing wrong with saying "make this one character more erotic." I love how Polygon incorrectly reported this story saying that Kojima said to make all the characters more erotic when he was really just talking about one.

Also:

Wait, but Kojima later said that he was indeed talking about all of the characters. That he wanted all of the characters to be more erotic. Men and women. Heck, he even mentioned thinking the guns and mechanical designs should have a sort of eroticism to them. Though, by "erotic", he really seems to just be referring to "pleasurable".

Also, as an aside, I think this poll is a load of nonsense yet again. And this one isn't even trying. It's an embarrassment. Should we really be using polls to beat our agendas over people's head? There isn't one good option on there.

#27 Posted by probablytuna (3888 posts) -

I don't see how this is news to anyone familiar with MGS. Also yeah, Cortana.

#28 Edited by DharmaBum (1049 posts) -

A Sniper deprived of her Words

Oh, Japan...

#29 Posted by Slaegar (745 posts) -

There's a difference between sexiness and sexism. I wish people didn't lob around the word sexism so freely. I'm sick of arguing about this though. That character design is admittedly pretty stupid. If they'd wanted to make the character sexy, there were much better ways to go about it then having her dress that way.

Clearly sex is sexist. Women hate attractive men and they themselves would prefer to be hideous lumps of unidentifiable flesh than be considered "pretty".

I eagerly await the call to ban trendy tight fitting clothes for women, just in case they may offend themselves.

I know the perfect outfit!

Hyperbole aside, I think those outfits do look pretty silly. For some reason I'm more bothered by the ripped pantyhose than anything else. Like if it wasn't all torn up I would care less.

#30 Edited by JasonR86 (9738 posts) -

lol

I always will think that outwardly calling people out in your field of work to the general public is juvenile and classless. But whatever.

#31 Posted by jimmy_p (278 posts) -

Judging from his current status he pussied out pretty quickly

#32 Posted by McGhee (6075 posts) -

@truthtellah: What I read was that it was a direction that his design was going. But when talking about making a specific character more sexy, he was just talking about this one, and he was talking to specific person's question about making the cosplay easier. But maybe I missed something else.

#33 Edited by ShadowConqueror (3110 posts) -

JAPAN.

#34 Edited by BigJeffrey (5162 posts) -

@dharmabum said:

A Sniper deprived of her Words

Oh, Japan...

I think her tongue is cut off and is mute, so does not speak.

#35 Edited by Video_Game_King (36271 posts) -

Kojima has his reasons, duh. I'm sure there's a perfectly good batshit fucking crazy explanation...

I agree.

#36 Posted by Tylea002 (2295 posts) -

He's right. Being involved with Halo 4 does not make him less right. Maybe he hated the Cortana design and witnessed the process that led to its inclusion first hand, and is pissed off about that too?

#37 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) -

@jimmy_p said:

Judging from his current status he pussied out pretty quickly

That's pretty funny.

#38 Posted by sub_o (914 posts) -

David Ellis has matured. I remembered in one of the old 1UP Show skits, there's a part where he tried to jiggle Naomi's breasts using SixAxis, after Ray Barnholt told him about it. And now he finds it distasteful.

Social media and media outlets are blowing things out of proportions. This is non news.

#39 Edited by Slag (5050 posts) -

He's being hypocrital and he's right. Takes one to know one I guess.

"Disgusting" is definitely the wrong word choice here though, the design is stupid/silly not disgusting.

#40 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5146 posts) -

Well, I don't think he's in a position to judge Kojima and rather than sexist, that character design is just stupid. Like, put on some pants damnit. Aren't you a soldier, lady? Where do you put your ammo, into your panties? Because I can't see any pockets on your stocking.

Also, I love the reactionary "Oh Japan" comments. Keep those stupid comments coming!

#41 Posted by BanzaiBandito (77 posts) -

I wonder if Quiet is going to need to be rescued as often as Cortana.

#42 Edited by JouselDelka (966 posts) -

What's sexist is being OK with male characters being shirtless and buff, while objecting to female characters being topless and busty, because they're female.

What's more annoying is you creating a thread about what a dude said about Kojima and us discussing it and giving it attention.

#43 Edited by Milkman (17473 posts) -

Not sure if "disgusting" is the right word here. Maybe "silly" or "childish"? But those are kind of words that could always describe MGS.

I will echo what some other people are saying that, generally in Metal Gear, the sexualization goes both ways a lot of the time. Kojima is clearly a guy who likes his sexy time but I don't think I've found any of it particularly harmful. Just silly.

#44 Posted by Demoskinos (15280 posts) -

You know what's disgusting? That apparently opinions don't matter for shit now. Either you agree with the hivemind or apparently your a sexist man baby. But hey, Dragon's Crown and Killer is Dead are so passe now. Lets all pile on Kojima for no good reason. Frankly, Kojima doesn't need a fucking reason to change his characters. He can do what he pleases.

Secondly,Metal Gear has always been dripping in sex. Not just the females either. But let's ignore the generally even handed approach to this stuff Kojima has had because a pair of butt cheeks and breasts are obviously the most offensive thing ever. Christ,can everyone possibly I dunno not get offended at every drop of the hat and pretending that artists need to conform to one line of thinking and not dare express themselves the way they want because "it's offensive".

#45 Edited by ThePhantomnaut (6201 posts) -

I think we have to also consider Yoji Shinkawa's side of the design. He does have a certain way of applying suggestiveness to female characters; Hell, look at Fortune from MGS2 for example. If Kojima-san were to give another artist the responsibility over the general design in visual format, it might have looked different yet fulfilling the objective parameters.

#46 Posted by Aishan (1026 posts) -

He may be a hyprocrite, but that character design is appalling. I think disgusting is exactly the right word for it.

.. can everyone possibly I dunno not get offended at every drop of the hat and pretending that artists need to conform to one line of thinking and not dare express themselves the way they want because "it's offensive".

What artistic expression is there in that character design? What's it trying to say?

#47 Posted by falserelic (5407 posts) -

'' I Scream Sexism Everywhere'' I'm surprise that hasn't been made a song yet. After all this bitching and complaining from people all over the webs. Makes me want to shoot my own nuts off sometimes, it drives me insane at this point.

#48 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3909 posts) -

@sub_o said:

David Ellis has matured. I remembered in one of the old 1UP Show skits, there's a part where he tried to jiggle Naomi's breasts using SixAxis, after Ray Barnholt told him about it. And now he finds it distasteful.

So has he actually matured, or has he jumped on the sexism bandwagon? Considering that he just used the term "man babies" to refer to everyone working in the game industry who doesn't share his opinions on character design, I would suggest the latter is true.

@bigjeffrey said:

@dharmabum said:

A Sniper deprived of her Words

Oh, Japan...

I think her tongue is cut off and is mute, so does not speak.

Just like how Kojima probably wants all his women, am I right?

@tylea002 said:

He's right. Being involved with Halo 4 does not make him less right. Maybe he hated the Cortana design and witnessed the process that led to its inclusion first hand, and is pissed off about that too?

Good point. But if he really does feel that way, even continuing to work there would then make him at least a bit of a hypocrite, wouldn't it?

As someone else suggested, if this point was going to be made, it shouldn't have been David Ellis who made it.

#49 Edited by Demoskinos (15280 posts) -

@aishan: Ask the artist who made it.

#50 Edited by Seppli (10250 posts) -

The flippin' White Knighting has to flippin' stop. Jeez!