Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3809 posts) 1 year, 1 month ago

Poll: Halo 4 Designer calls Hideo Kojima a sexist manbaby (491 votes)

He's right, and he's right to say so. 15%
He has a point, but should have just kept his mouth shut. 10%
STOP TALKING ABOUT SEXISM! I'm so sick of all of this! I don't care! 34%
He's right, Cortana is tasteful and non-sexualized. 13%
Well, looking at Cortana's current appearance suggests he's a giant hypocrite. 57%

http://www.vg247.com/2013/09/06/halo-4-design-calls-out-kojimas-recent-sexy-character-quotes-brands-it-disgusting/

The actual quotes:

I don't care if this gets me in trouble. This character design is disgusting. Our industry should be better than this.

Industry is full of man babies. Ugh.

#401 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3809 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac said:

Seriously, what is up with people calling that site "Kotatsu" or whatever lately? I've seen it several times now, so I'm guessing it's a somewhat new meme, but I have no idea how that started or what it means.

Welcome to Giant Bomb

I've literally been a member of this website since day one, but I do thank you for the video explanation.

#402 Posted by Castiel (2661 posts) -

It's just a stupid character design, and games can be really dumb at times, but as others has mentioned Cortana in Halo 4 was designed by a horny 14-year-old so I guess they are both equally dumb.

Hooray for dumb character designs!

With that said I don't really find this offensive and I think a lot of you people underestimate women. If the tables were turned and it were guys portrayed like that, which there has been a few cases of, I can only laugh and shake my head.

The one-dimensional stand that a lot of game "journalists", and pretty much all the internets, take against this stuff is pathetic. We have gotten to the point where Super Mario can't save Princess Peach without someone screaming sexism. Guys I guess we have to make Mario gay, and then he could save a guy instead, but then we forget that some people are homophobic and would bitch about that now. Oh well you can't please everybody or you could just stop acting like little babies and start talking about this like grown ups. And Mario will keep saving Princess Peach and that is okay.

At some point seeing sexism everywhere says more about you than the game. Just saying.

#403 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@rollingzeppelin said:

@bigjeffrey said:

@psylah said:

I'm happy as long as MGS is still the gayest thing since Cho Aniki.

Big Boss and Kaz should just fuck already.

Are you Happy? KOTATSU

That image just perfectly shows how ridiculous Quiet's character design is, doesn't it?

No it just shows how ridiculous these PC mobs are. This makes absolutely no sense because of the bra. Remove the bra and it would have been fine but why the bra? Because Quiet is wearing one? So then take the bra of as well. You cant? Why not?

Again if you create a sexualized character you should know the differences between a male and a female and how you can sexualize her/him in the right manner. Just copying an outfit is just stupid. And just shows how clueless these people are. This is the same thing when people try to compare boobs with a dick. IT makes absolutely no sense.

#404 Posted by Demoskinos (15010 posts) -

@greggd said:

@missacre said:

@rollingzeppelin said:

@bigjeffrey said:

@psylah said:

I'm happy as long as MGS is still the gayest thing since Cho Aniki.

Big Boss and Kaz should just fuck already.

Are you Happy? KOTATSU

That image just perfectly shows how ridiculous Quiet's character design is, doesn't it?

No. That's stupid. Men don't typically wear bikinis and silk stockings. Women do. Men and women have different standards of dressing.

This is exactly why I hate it when people draw something like that with the intent of equating the ridiculousness to how the woman actually looks. Not the same, sorry.

First off holy shit this thread is still going? Secondly, agree. People doing these stupid lets flip the tables and show men what its like! Its really dumb. I'm not "offended" nor does that picture evoke empathy from me for their so called "cause" it just comes off as a stupid attempt to get a point across that they fumbled before they even had the chance to do anything meaningful with it.

#405 Posted by KentonClay (256 posts) -

The package on that picture of Snake isn't big enough. Give him a bigger dong to make the sexually insecure audience extra uncomfortable.

#406 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5036 posts) -

The package on that picture of Snake isn't big enough. Give him a bigger dong to make the sexually insecure audience extra uncomfortable.

You want Snake to have a bigger snake?

#407 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

The package on that picture of Snake isn't big enough. Give him a bigger dong to make the sexually insecure audience extra uncomfortable.

that is not how you sexualize male characters. Or are you trying to compare it with her boobs?

#408 Edited by KentonClay (256 posts) -

@alexandersheen said:

@kentonclay said:

The package on that picture of Snake isn't big enough. Give him a bigger dong to make the sexually insecure audience extra uncomfortable.

You want Snake to have a bigger snake?

Yes. and the camera should make love to his sweaty package and abs whenever it can with plenty of hip gyrations in his idle animations.

Also he should make sex noises whenever he gets hurt.

#409 Posted by Brodehouse (10068 posts) -

@kentonclay: I see you've played Metal Gear Solid before!

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#410 Posted by hermes (1534 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

He has been, at best, rather inconsistent about it. Sure, the Boss is a good example, but then we have the Beauty and Beast squad in 4 (with their "true form" and the option to make them pose sexily to the camera), and the "press a button during a cutscene to stare at cleavage", that make the whole thing kind of awkward.

Then again, the designer of Halo 4 should not said that. Even when it might be right, and excepting the Cortana example, that kind of ill talk sound pretty unprofessional when referring to a fellow designer.

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#411 Edited by hermes (1534 posts) -

@video_game_king said:

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

He has been, at best, rather inconsistent about it. Sure, the Boss is a good example, but then we have the Beauty and Beast squad in 4 (with their "true form" and the option to make them pose sexily to the camera), and the "press a button during a cutscene to stare at cleavage", that make the whole thing kind of awkward.

Then again, the designer of Halo 4 should not said that. Even when it might be right, and excepting the Cortana example, that kind of ill talk sound pretty unprofessional when referring to a fellow designer.

Online
#412 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@hermes said:

@video_game_king said:

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

He has been, at best, rather inconsistent about it. Sure, the Boss is a good example, but then we have the Beauty and Beast squad in 4 (with their "true form" and the option to make them pose sexily to the camera), and the "press a button during a cutscene to stare at cleavage", that make the whole thing kind of awkward.

Then again, the designer of Halo 4 should not said that. Even when it might be right, and excepting the Cortana example, that kind of ill talk sound pretty unprofessional when referring to a fellow designer.

Then don't use it. Overall the design of these 4 was great and so was their story. Sure it was no Boss but they were still nicely developed villains and fit perfect in this universe.

#413 Edited by Brodehouse (10068 posts) -

My problem with the beautys was they were repackaged from other boss battles, not that I could ogle them if I wanted to.

Or that Snake ogles them because of course he does, he's Snake. There's that one cutscene where Raven is screaming her head off and Snake's eyes are locked to her ass. It's great.

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#414 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

My problem with the beautys was they were repackaged from other boss battles, not that I could ogle them if I wanted to.

Or that Snake ogles them because of course he does, he's Snake. There's that one cutscene where Raven is screaming her head off and Snake's eyes are locked to her ass. It's great.

Yeah they are very similar but that is with a lot of the bosses in MGS from the patterns. For example I think there was always a sniper one,, a very sad one that can not die or rather wants to die and so on. But I can see that people get bored of it,

#415 Posted by hermes (1534 posts) -

@darji said:

@hermes said:

@video_game_king said:

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

He has been, at best, rather inconsistent about it. Sure, the Boss is a good example, but then we have the Beauty and Beast squad in 4 (with their "true form" and the option to make them pose sexily to the camera), and the "press a button during a cutscene to stare at cleavage", that make the whole thing kind of awkward.

Then again, the designer of Halo 4 should not said that. Even when it might be right, and excepting the Cortana example, that kind of ill talk sound pretty unprofessional when referring to a fellow designer.

Then don't use it. Overall the design of these 4 was great and so was their story. Sure it was no Boss but they were still nicely developed villains and fit perfect in this universe.

Still doesn't preclude that it exists.

My point is not that it shouldn't exist, but that Kojima has a history of doing that kind of stuff (by that, I mean, designing female characters to be "sexy", which was the comment that spark the original post). It might be nothing but an easter egg that many people missed (I didn't knew about the camera until I saw it on youtube), but it doesn't mean he didn't go to some programmers to implement it and animators to stage it, and who knows how many people were involved because Kojima said "I want Naomi to have an unzipped shirt that gets to her belly button" and "at this point, I want a prompt with a QTE that makes Snake stare directly at the exposed cleavage".

Online
#416 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@hermes said:

@darji said:

@hermes said:

@video_game_king said:

Hasn't Kojima generally been pretty good with female characters? What about The Boss and the female villains in Sons of Liberty?

He has been, at best, rather inconsistent about it. Sure, the Boss is a good example, but then we have the Beauty and Beast squad in 4 (with their "true form" and the option to make them pose sexily to the camera), and the "press a button during a cutscene to stare at cleavage", that make the whole thing kind of awkward.

Then again, the designer of Halo 4 should not said that. Even when it might be right, and excepting the Cortana example, that kind of ill talk sound pretty unprofessional when referring to a fellow designer.

Then don't use it. Overall the design of these 4 was great and so was their story. Sure it was no Boss but they were still nicely developed villains and fit perfect in this universe.

Still doesn't preclude that it exists.

My point is not that it shouldn't exist, but that Kojima has a history of doing that kind of stuff (by that, I mean, designing female characters to be "sexy", which was the comment that spark the original post). It might be nothing but an easter egg that many people missed (I didn't knew about the camera until I saw it on youtube), but it doesn't mean he didn't go to some programmers to implement it and animators to stage it, and who knows how many people were involved because Kojima said "I want Naomi to have an unzipped shirt that gets to her belly button" and "at this point, I want a prompt with a QTE that makes Snake stare directly at the exposed cleavage".

What you guys don't get it that Kojimas does this also with male characters. Again this is a highly sexualized world MGS in set in so it is totally ok and there is nothing wrong to design sexy characters if it fits in the Universe.

#417 Edited by Brodehouse (10068 posts) -

I will take the different tact and say it's not that 'the sexualization is equal so therefore it's okay', because that continues the meme that sexualization is negative, and I'm not sex-negative. My position is that sexualization is completely neutral, and whether you like any instance of it or not is up to you. My position allows everyone to desire whatever it is they want, and for creators to try and meet the demand. My position allows for promiscuous guuuurls in shonen and shiny sensitive bishie boys in shojo, and people can like whatever they like, not that everything has to be legislated and equalized. If more people buy shonen than shojo, whatever, that's people being free and making free choices. If someone wants a little of both in a single thing, if people want neither in a single thing, that's a market with a demand that can be met. But I won't constrain the other markets to obey someone's ideology.

Government and law and business and rights need to be legislated and equalized to protect people, not art and entertainment. Art and entertainment will do just fine if everyone can express whatever sexuality they want, both creators and audience, whether it's hetero male, hetero female, gay male, gay female, androgyny, even if there's no sexuality at all.

Instruction;

Group A likes X, dislikes Y.

Group B likes Y, dislikes X.

Group C likes X and Y.

Group D dislikes X and Y.

By forcing equal representation of X and Y appearing, you effectively ignore the demands of groups A, B, and D, and cater only to C. By forcing that X and Y does not appear at all, you ignore the demands of groups A, B, and C and cater only to D. By accepting that everyone is free to desire whatever they want, all groups are free to demand content for them, and creators can target whichever they wish. It behooves creators financially to meet the demands of A, B, C, or D, and it behooves each group to show demand for content made for them. Where it doesn't work is when any group attempts to bully or strongarm other groups into giving up or changing their demands, especially through social stigmatizing. Because groups C and D, or A and B will always exist, groups with diametrically opposed demands, and an attempt to make one submit to the other is totalitarian. Advocate for freedom. Advocate that groups A through D have different demands, not that one is 'right' and the others should shut up and deal.

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#418 Posted by GreggD (4507 posts) -

I'd like to point out that Cortana's most recent incarnation at least has realistic proportions. She was always a naked computer lady, but the new design doesn't look completely out of place if it were applied to a real woman.

#419 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5036 posts) -

@brodehouse: Why do you know what shounen, bishounen and shoujo means? Are you actually reading manga just not talk about it?

#420 Posted by Brodehouse (10068 posts) -

@brodehouse: Why do you know what shounen, bishounen and shoujo means? Are you actually reading manga just not talk about it?

I like to know a lot of things about a lot of things, knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Understanding culture is a way to understand anthropology is a way to understand history is a way to understand... I have no real interest in dancing but I know the difference between a cha-cha and a gavotte.

And nah, I don't read manga. Occasionally I'll watch some anime my girlfriend is watching, but I think her stuff would be classified as seinen.

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#421 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@alexandersheen said:

@brodehouse: Why do you know what shounen, bishounen and shoujo means? Are you actually reading manga just not talk about it?

I like to know a lot of things about a lot of things, knowledge for the sake of knowledge. Understanding culture is a way to understand anthropology is a way to understand history is a way to understand... I have no real interest in dancing but I know the difference between a cha-cha and a gavotte.

And nah, I don't read manga. Occasionally I'll watch some anime my girlfriend is watching, but I think her stuff would be classified as seinen.

Seinen can be pretty heavy especially in Manga form. Berserk for example is not only very brutal but the world is very sexualized. You will encounter rape scenarios a lot of female nudity, bestiality and so on but Berserk never felt into a region of being sexist or misogynistic because it fits totally into this world. IT is an classic that is still running and is considered as one of the best seinen mangas ever. And of course it is made for an adult audience just like MGS is becoming more and more an mature rated title. Especially 5 looks that way with all this torture, child murder and so on.

#422 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5036 posts) -

@alexandersheen said:

@brodehouse: Why do you know what shounen, bishounen and shoujo means? Are you actually reading manga just not talk about it?

And nah, I don't read manga. Occasionally I'll watch some anime my girlfriend is watching, but I think her stuff would be classified as seinen.

Ah, that's a shame. Well, if you ever want to change that and want to know where to start or want to watch good seinen shows, you know where to go to ask for recommendations ;P

#423 Edited by Brodehouse (10068 posts) -

@alexandersheen: Right now we're like 3-4 episodes into Ghost Hound, which I have been told is from the people who made serial experiments lain. I like it a lot so far. The one dude is a smug bullshitter and I've always liked smug bullshitters.

I watched some series about a survival game to decide who will become the new God and I loathed it. The female love interest is Walter White levels of unsympathetic and the protagonist loves her anyways and it makes me hate him for being a moron more than I hate her for being evil.

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#424 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5036 posts) -

@alexandersheen: Right now we're like 3-4 episodes into Ghost Hound, which I have been told is from the people who made serial experiments lain. I like it a lot so far. The one dude is a smug bullshitter and I've always liked smug bullshitters.

I watched some series about a survival game to decide who will become the new God and I loathed it. The female love interest is Walter White levels of unsympathetic and the protagonist loves her anyways and it makes me hate him for being a moron more than I hate her for being evil.

I think you are talking about Mirai Nikki. That show... I couldn't even give it a couple episodes before dropping it. Right out of the gate, the first episode was enough for me to decide that I don't want to do anything with it, mainly because of the protagonist who seemed to be an Ikari Shinji clone, who's personality can be distilled into this:

#425 Edited by ProfessorEss (7445 posts) -
@castiel said:

I think a lot of you people underestimate women. If the tables were turned and it were guys portrayed like that, which there has been a few cases of, I can only laugh and shake my head.

The one-dimensional stand that a lot of game "journalists", and pretty much all the internets, take against this stuff is pathetic.

At some point seeing sexism everywhere says more about you than the game. Just saying.

Amen. The way women are portrayed in these types of discussions and articles is grosser than any of these character designs. If your only knowledge of women came from threads like this and articles from videogame reviewers journalists you would be left with a very weak and dreadfully wrong idea of women are. Meanwhile the people defending this poor, helpless gender actually believe that they're currently walking the high road.

I'm sorry but the moms, sisters, wives, daughters and co-workers in my circles are stronger than any of the alleged victims of these design crimes.

#426 Posted by Rowr (5799 posts) -

Getting kind of tired of all the "omg boobies!"

No one seems to care that you murder like a thousand people in the average game.

#427 Posted by Missacre (566 posts) -

@castiel said:

I think a lot of you people underestimate women. If the tables were turned and it were guys portrayed like that, which there has been a few cases of, I can only laugh and shake my head.

The one-dimensional stand that a lot of game "journalists", and pretty much all the internets, take against this stuff is pathetic.

At some point seeing sexism everywhere says more about you than the game. Just saying.

Amen. The way women are portrayed in these types of discussions and articles is grosser than any of these character designs. If your only knowledge of women came from threads like this and articles from videogame reviewers journalists you would be left with a very weak and dreadfully wrong idea of women are. Meanwhile the people defending this poor, helpless gender actually believe that they're currently walking the high road.

I'm sorry but the moms, sisters, wives, daughters and co-workers in my circles are stronger than any of the alleged victims of these design crimes.

This. I actually feel a lot more offended by the people telling me I should be "offended" by these "misogynist" designs or whatever they're calling them. They then tell me that I have "internalized misogyny" when I tell them that I don't really care that there are naked women being murdered in a game. Fuck all those social justice retards.

#429 Posted by Hemmelight (164 posts) -

It's fucking Metal Gear, people!

Haven't we known this to be ridiculous since day one?

Plus, Kojima isn't exactly known for his stellar English skills, anyway.

My guess is that he simply used a 'less than optimal word' to describe sexy-ness?