#1 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

Hey everybody I dare not mention the project I am working on as it is a guaranteed ban and lock, but I would like to talk about the inherent sadness and door slamming fun that is trying to run a Kickstarter as a small game developer. I know most of you are probably tired of hearing about crowdfunding projects, hell I am too, but when we started working on our Kickstarter campaign it was different world; game journalist, and gaming sites actually wanted to help out Indie game developers, not just established companies like Obsidian and Double Fine who are guaranteed webpage hits based on their name alone.

One of the things that excited us about Kickstarter was that we had a really cool and innovative idea and people would get to see it and vote with their dollars. That has all changed. I have been told by many journalist friends and acquaintances that their editors will not cover our project until the Kickstarter is over. GREAT! EXCELLENT!! The game changed on us overnight! We spent money and took away time from development of the game to create the Kickstarter campaign to be basically be told to SHOVE OFF. It just sucks to feel like you have put all of yourself (time, sleep, money) into something and show up two months late for the party. I dont expect any sympathy as I know that you have all been burned by Kickstarter SPAM but at a certain point this grey area will rapidly become a wall for smaller developers like myself.

#2 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

Go to steam. Do greenlight project.

/thread

#3 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

We are making a mobile game... Gypsy Level++

#4 Posted by Class_A_Ninja (55 posts) -

@TheHumanDove said:

Go to steam. Do greenlight project.

/thread

Maybe he/she doesn't have $100, huh?

#5 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -

@Class_A_Ninja said:

@TheHumanDove said:

Go to steam. Do greenlight project.

/thread

Maybe he/she doesn't have $100, huh?

Then I wouldn't trust them with my lunch money. I think my dog has $100 stashed away in the backyard somewhere

#6 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@Class_A_Ninja said:

@TheHumanDove said:

Go to steam. Do greenlight project.

/thread

Maybe he/she doesn't have $100, huh?

$100? A King's ransom! Who could possibly afford that?

@MrVideoGames said:

We are making a mobile game... Gypsy Level++

Does it have Linux support? You need Linux support for a successful Kickstarter.

#7 Posted by kermoosh (911 posts) -

well when video games first started on kickstarter they were fairly new and interesting to readers, now everybody knows about it so its understandable that journalists won't publish stories about games that may or may not happen because they know people aren't interested. there are tons of games in kick-starter now and the journalists' websites would be flooded by kick-starter spam (not meant in a bad way).

i feel your struggle i guess but you can't expect everything to just fall in place for you. its not easy to get people to offer money and spread the word for you, some stuff is hard to do (especially be an indie developer)

#8 Posted by ComradeKhan (687 posts) -

I enjoy feeling like a gypsy.

#9 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

Yep, we should have just announced PC/Linux support like everyone else is doing without any code written or prototype, but we thought instead we would be more realistic and set obtainable goals for our team. We had a Mobile engine running the playtests were going well and we said, alright lets finish this off with the help of the Kickstarter community. Yeah big mistake

#10 Posted by bartok (2469 posts) -

Eventually everybody ever will have a Kickstarter for a video game.

#11 Posted by Ares42 (2625 posts) -

Well, when you're asking for other peoples money so you can make a profit from it and not give them a share that really isn't very far from the gypsy stereotype, is it?

Online
#12 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@bartok said:

Eventually everybody ever will have a Kickstarter for a video game.

And most of them wont have a line of code written.

If I was going to do this all over again. I would have announced the game ahead of the Kickstarter campaign, built up some E-Penis, previews and articles then launched the Kickstarter. This would have been way easier way to go

#13 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@Ares42 said:

Well, when you're asking for other peoples money so you can make a profit from it and not give them a share that really isn't very far from the gypsy stereotype, is it?

That is ridiculous! You are giving the incredible gift of VIDEO GAMES!

#14 Posted by Hippie_Genocide (568 posts) -

I don't know if there was ever a time when game journalists would cover a kickstarter campaign by an unknown indie developer for a mobile game about gypsies. Its also overly cynical to say they only covered Double Fine's kickstarter because Time Schafer gets them clicks. They cover it because its relevant to what their readers are interested in.

#15 Edited by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -
#16 Posted by iam3green (14390 posts) -

i think that kickstarter is just a horrible thing. i don't donate to any of them but i just think that it's a scam. there really isn't anything i have heard that came out in a while.

#17 Edited by SexyToad (2760 posts) -

The mods won't jump on you, take your lunch money, and then spit on you. I would like to see your kickstarter page. I'm sure it's fine. They would lock it if you're asking for money or just telling us to check it out, but you have a discussion going on here. Now link me that page!

#18 Posted by FourWude (2261 posts) -

@TheHumanDove said:

@Class_A_Ninja said:

@TheHumanDove said:

Go to steam. Do greenlight project.

/thread

Maybe he/she doesn't have $100, huh?

Then I wouldn't trust them with my lunch money. I think my dog has $100 stashed away in the backyard somewhere

Well your dog's one rich son of a bitch.

#19 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

$100? A King's ransom! Who could possibly afford that?

Meet me by the docks at 1 AM if you want to see your children alive. *disappears back into the shadows*

#20 Edited by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

@Class_A_Ninja said:

@TheHumanDove said:

Go to steam. Do greenlight project.

/thread

Maybe he/she doesn't have $100, huh?

He did say "we", so coming up with $100 shouldn't be that difficult for them.

#21 Posted by cmpLtNOOb (195 posts) -

@iam3green: Well after Double Fine's project it feels like video games took over Kickstarter. That isn't true of course, there are a lot more types of projects you can pitch on the site, we used it last year to successfully raise funds for the short film I was working on. I think the problem with video games on kickstarter is the developers having to fulfill what was promised to the people who donated. Considering how small indie game developers start from and the recent history and controversy surround a few projects, people need to take a step back and remember the way this system works. If you give your money to a project, YOU ARE GIVING YOUR MONEY TO THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE OF THAT PROJECT, SO BE SURE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT. There are A LOT of different types of things that have been successfully funded and distributed on Kickstarter (feature films, cool new types of gadgets, hats, etc.), it doesn't take very long to see how many things there are when looking at the website, and a lot of them are pretty cool in my opinion.

I'm not saying you can't be scammed on Kickstarter, but if you gave money to an unknown indie game developer (or anyone for that matter) for a project that barely has anything on its page to prove it even exists, and you gets screwed, its kinda your fault for deciding to invest in something that you aren't sure is going to succeed.

#22 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@SexyToad: @SexyToad said:

The mods won't jump on you, take your lunch money, and then spit on you. I would like to see your kickstarter page. I'm sure it's fine. They would lock it if you're asking for money or just telling us to check it out, but you have a discussion going on here. Now link me that page!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/980988454/football-heroes

#23 Posted by Swaboo (451 posts) -

Hey that game doesn't involve sadness OR Gypsies!

#24 Posted by MordeaniisChaos (5730 posts) -

all markets work that way dyder, there is no easy road. Itas not like those companies were just handed their success. Look at byngie, they started TINY and became the creators of one of the biggest franchises the industry has ever. Seen.

#25 Posted by J12088 (447 posts) -

@iam3green said:

i think that kickstarter is just a horrible thing. i don't donate to any of them but i just think that it's a scam. there really isn't anything i have heard that came out in a while.

14 hours in and I'm still loving it. I too do not contribute to kickstarter but that doesnt mean it's a bad thing. It's a great way to get games made that publishers wont touch. The reason the OP can't raise the money he needs is perhaps because his game isn't as interesting to the masses as he might like to think. I can't think of a single mobile game ever that's excited me enough to make me put down money before it's even released.

#26 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@MordeaniisChaos said:

all markets work that way dyder, there is no easy road. Itas not like those companies were just handed their success. Look at byngie, they started TINY and became the creators of one of the biggest franchises the industry has ever. Seen.

I think that is absolutely fair, you have to work for it, you have to build up a reputation. And to get feature coverage on a site, you need a couple of game decent game releases or have something that looks like Jesus made it. We dont! I am not delusional :)

That being said, we did not expect any coverage on Giant Bomb, because they do not normally cover a lot mobile games, unless its a huge thing or super interesting. Patrick did mention us in his Worth Reading article, which was more then we were expecting. But when it comes to other sites, that have specific Sports dedicated sections or cover Mobile games exclusively, to say "Oh that looks really awesome!!! Let me know when you are out of Kickstarter so my editor will let me do a story". That is F'd! And if I only heard that from 1 or 2 journos I would think, oh they are just being polite, but its the most common response we get.

#27 Posted by TruthTellah (8850 posts) -

@MrVideoGames: For a sad gypsy, your kickstarter seems to be going alright. You do need a bump or two to get over the hill, but whatever you're doing seems to be working. I'm glad to see your project may indeed get Kickstarted, and then you'll be able to come back to this thread and rejoice. Good luck with it, man. :)

#28 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@TruthTellah: I dont want to be too weird, but your post moved me emotionally. Thanks man, I dont think you realize how much what you just said meant to a random stranger on the internet.

#29 Posted by TruthTellah (8850 posts) -

@MrVideoGames: Glad to hear it. You can make the game happen no matter what environment is out there, and I believe you will. I look forward to playing your game some day soon.

#30 Posted by Hailinel (24429 posts) -

Yeah, Kickstarter has gone downhill when it comes to video game projects. Sure, Obsidian's Kickstarter is doing great, but they're Obsidian. I actually pledged money to a small Kickstarter that ran no long after Double Fine's that ended up meeting with success of their own (they asked for $10,000 and received over four times that amount in pledges), but even then, I could sense that the tide was starting to turn and making it harder for small projects from unknown teams to make even their modest funding goals. It's hard to compete when a team of unknowns asking for a relative pittance can't even get the time of day from the people circle-jerking to the success of the big-name projects.

#31 Posted by Sploder (917 posts) -

"Hey do you enjoy sadness and feeling like a gypsy?"
 
I thought this is the name of the game you were making. I would have backed it.

#32 Posted by Damodar (1375 posts) -

The game looks fun! The RPG element definitely seems like something that I'd obsess over.

Kickstarter's popularity boom has been a double edged sword, I guess. On the one hand, people probably pay more attention to it now because of what Double Fine did, but that would have brought with it a flood of new campaigns trying to finance bad or misguided projects or certainly projects where they have absolutely nothing to show. It all blew up so fast that I think a lot of people developed an ennui towards the site pretty damn quickly. I guess time will tell what will actually happen with it, but the potential to get stuff made that a publisher wouldn't want to fund (and fair enough, if it's niche) is definitely a good thing. I'm unreasonably excited for the new Carmageddon :P

#33 Edited by Masakari (72 posts) -

Kickstarter is in a bit of a transition phase. On one hand everyone seems to be waiting for a "disaster", on the other much higher profile companies like Uber Ent. and Obsidian are making it harder for unknown / smaller indies to get some attention. The KS system is being "hijacked" by much bigger, but still "indie" companies that already have a built-in fanbase.

Still, there are always surprises. I had never even heard of Homestuck the webcomic and people are throwing money at them, despite the fact they have zero experience making games and a really low quality / crappy website / business presence.

Not entirely sure what the best approach is - several projects have taken the net by storm by being announced directly with their KS. On the other hand, announcing a project and letting it gain a fanbase before doing a KS also has it's pluses. IMO it's just another factor, "luck / timing".

#34 Posted by Khann (2834 posts) -

I think PC games are having much more success on Kickstarter, mobile games don't seem to get the same attention (and I'm OK with this).

#35 Posted by superpow (227 posts) -

How were indie games ever made before kickstarter? To hear a lot of these indie game developers on kickstarter, they seem to have no idea how to make a game without getting crowdfunded. Then again, most projects on kickstarter are creatively bankrupt excuses for games that would not meet with success any other way. I mean this with no offense to the OP, I'm just talking about the overall pedigree of developers pitching their games on the site. That might be a very good reason why nobody pays attention to kickstarter anymore.

#36 Edited by Laiv162560asse (487 posts) -

It's not a journalist's responsibility to report on every Kickstarter they're shown. Until you have sufficient funding, all you have is an idea, which is the same thing that a billion other non-news-worthy people have. Some people's ideas are worth reporting on - for instance, if Gabe Newell says 'I have some ideas for a game', that will be all over the news. But if *I* say 'I have some ideas for HL3', no one gives a shit and rightly so. I don't know what your gripe is, OP. It's your own responsibility to market your idea, not that of games journos.

Of course that means smaller Kickstarters receive less publicity while larger Kickstarters, from people who don't necessarily even need to be kickstarted, receive more. But that's just a reflection of the wobbliness of the whole kickstarter idea in the first place. It's charity for private companies, the ultimate crystallisation of the neoliberal market model. You give money to a more established name, you're more likely to see some kind of return but they're less likely to genuinely need the money in the first place. You give money to somebody more obscure, your money is more likely to make a difference but also more likely to go up in smoke. Considering that most donors seem to see Kickstarters as a kind of early Steam store page, you can't expect the less certain projects to be treated with the same kind of legitimacy as, say, Double Fine's. I think the levels of publicity are pretty fair and there's no real problem here, but maybe that's personally because I haven't seen a good enough reason to kickstart anything yet.

#37 Posted by Hailinel (24429 posts) -

@superpow said:

How were indie games ever made before kickstarter? To hear a lot of these indie game developers on kickstarter, they seem to have no idea how to make a game without getting crowdfunded. Then again, most projects on kickstarter are creatively bankrupt excuses for games that would not meet with success any other way. I mean this with no offense to the OP, I'm just talking about the overall pedigree of developers pitching their games on the site. That might be a very good reason why nobody pays attention to kickstarter anymore.

Crowdfunding makes it easier (in theory) to get funding than it would otherwise. It also demonstrates that there's an audience interested in the game right out of the gate. A lot of indie games end up being funded out of the developers' own pockets, or time is spent hunting for investments from interested parties, but neither of those options has any guarantee that people will actually be interested in your game once it's finished. With sites like Kickstarter, it makes it easier for people who wouldn't otherwise have the money to make a game try to get that money.

The problem there is that, with the success of Double Fine, inXile and Obsidian, people become deluded into thinking that getting the pledges for their projects will be easy. But all three of those companies are operated by people with decades of industry experience, and their Kickstarter projects (a classic-style adventure, a sequel to Wasteland, and an old-school fantasy RPG) are games that longtime fans would love to see more of. So these indie devs come roaring out of the gate with their Kickstarters, only to fall flat on their faces (as was the case for the team looking to fund Bad Dudes 2).

Kickstarter was meant to be a funding platform for small independent creative projects, but a select few with established credentials, popularity, and clout are turning it into their own funding platform.

#38 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@Masakari said:

Not entirely sure what the best approach is - several projects have taken the net by storm by being announced directly with their KS. On the other hand, announcing a project and letting it gain a fanbase before doing a KS also has it's pluses. IMO it's just another factor, "luck / timing".

If I had to do this all over again, I would have announced the game and slowly built up some press coverage, then announce a delay and the Kickstarter campaign.

#39 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Ravenlight said:

$100? A King's ransom! Who could possibly afford that?

Meet me by the docks at 1 AM if you want to see your children alive. *disappears back into the shadows*

We don't negotiate with Lunatics.

#40 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@Ravenlight said:

@Video_Game_King said:

@Ravenlight said:

$100? A King's ransom! Who could possibly afford that?

Meet me by the docks at 1 AM if you want to see your children alive. *disappears back into the shadows*

We don't negotiate with Lunatics.

And I don't negotiate with Solarian banana-people. Bring the money. *disappears back into shadows*

#41 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

@Ravenlight said:

And I don't negotiate with Solarian banana-people. Bring the money. *disappears back into shadows*

You better hope he does not follow you, as then there will be no shadows *mind explodes*

#42 Posted by Carryboy (659 posts) -

So let me get this right, your complaining that gaming publications are not giving you free publicity for your fundraiser?

Online
#43 Posted by Sbaitso (532 posts) -

@MrVideoGames: The game looks cool, and I hope you meet your goal, but honestly, I hope your backers don't see this thread. You seem kind of....bitter.

#44 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@Carryboy said:

So let me get this right, your complaining that gaming publications are not giving you free publicity for your fundraiser?

Nope, the press and the reader went cold on Kickstarter as we were finishing up our campaign. So as I stated before, sites that would have normally covered a game like our, wouldn't cover because the editors had recently made global decision about not running stories on indie Kickstarter project promotions. You let one do it, you get flooded with other indie developers. So I can see why this was done.

#45 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@Sbaitso said:

@MrVideoGames: The game looks cool, and I hope you meet your goal, but honestly, I hope your backers don't see this thread. You seem kind of....bitter.

I am venting a bit and just so we are clear I think its incredible gift that I have the access to put a Kickstarter project up and that through their amazon account people can pledge. This is really exciting for a small studio like mine. This is mostly me venting about some of the recent policies put in place by journalists, reddit and forum moderators in the last several months in regards to Kickstarter projects, that makes what I am trying to accomplish incredibly difficult and frustrating (hence the bitterness in the coffee)

I dont see how this conversation would affect a backer, as they have probably either found the project by finding it on Kickstarter or were directed there by the limited press coverage that we have been able to muster. And that is really what I was talking about is exposure not Kickstarter

#46 Posted by GreggD (4490 posts) -

I am, in fact, a Gypsy. But I don't think I feel like one...

#47 Posted by MrVideoGames (30 posts) -

@GreggD said:

I am, in fact, a Gypsy. But I don't think I feel like one...

Then run a Kickstarter campaign