How Badly Will The Gaming Press Embarrass Themselves This Year?

@Little_Socrates said:

@algertman said:

@Baillie said:

@algertman said:

@Mike76x said:

@Little_Socrates said:

The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.

You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.

When your game has as much DLC as ME3 art should never even be mentioned.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement?

He claimed ME3 ending hate was frustrating from a artistic point of view. I say artictistic integrity was was never part of that game.

My point was mostly to say that the ME3 issues were more with the people screaming hate speech towards BioWare and rating EA worse than Monsanto Bean Corporation (who infamously make an effort to monopolize bean distrubution in the States by any means necessary) and Bank of America's illegal foreclosure of homes. My point is that issuing death threats and hurling misogyny at the game's lead writer a month before the game's release was disgusting, and that set up a bad relationship between Mass Effect's more belligerent fanbase and the press.

But I'll take the bait. Let's talk art.

I don't think any of the DLC is absolutely core to the ME3 experience, though I think it enhances it more drastically than any DLC beforehand. I know that if I hadn't had Shadow Broker, I wouldn't love ME2 nearly as much as I do. I would never have gotten to spend time with Liara and keep that relationship meaningful throughout the franchise.

Things cost money. Unless you're arguing that all art should cost the same amount always, the "cost" of the item doesn't detract from the extreme amount of work the writers, artists, graphic designers, sound engineers, voice actors, gameplay designers, and further staff of BioWare put into making content worth playing.

You can dislike ME3, fine. But the DLC doesn't make the original game any less relevant, and they have by far created one of the most analyzed artworks in videogames. And not just for its business model, or outrage over DLC, but for the literally hundreds of well-written essays, blog posts, and podcasts discussing the game's narrative, ending, and themes, whether from the perspective of fury over disappointment or satisfaction.

But EVEN IF ME3's not up to your artistic standard (which seems to be set by quality rather than medium, but that's another tack to pull) it's artistically problematic because it sets a precedent where the video game fanbase can get outraged and demand the change of an ending, and then it succeeds. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing (it took them ten years to release a version of Blade Runner anybody cared about, and the LOTR extended editions are obviously well-loved) but it disturbed some of the press and the industry. It's worth noting that the obsessive use of phrases like "hold the line" made the entire movement seem more Asperger's-y and neurotic, perhaps revealing a bit too much about the video game fanbase for people to ever be comfortable.

It's worth noting that I adored ME3 by the end of the year, despite its flaws (which are significant and several.) But I can totally understand why people dislike the game and its business model. It's still art either way, though.

ME3 DLC is shit. The game is shit. The redo endings were shit. The way the gaming press acted about it was shit. It's all a shit sandwich and the consumer is asked to eat it and like it or they are entitled cry babies. Bioware is nothing. It's all EA and has been for years. Let it go. The Bioware that used to be doesn't exist.

Same procedure as last year? Same procedure as every year, James.

-The gaming press, like every other industry in existance, will do some pretty stupid things. And people will get angry about it and then stop caring about it two weeks later.

-The "internet" will be terribly upset by something pretty stupid and the people who have legitimate problems with said thing will be overshadowed by a bunch of morons, making a discussion impossible. Also a bunch of "BEST GAMES EVARR" and "WURST GAMES EVARR" will be released. GTA V will get great reviews, much to the chagrin of some people who know as a fact that it doesn't deserve a 10/10, a bunch of other games will clearly be over/underrated, everybody in the entire press will get bought at some point and the new consoles will come out and weirdly enough there will be people calling them the worst consoles ever and Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft/PCgaming/iOS/Android are doomed.

There, I just spoiled the year for you.

(Also Bit.Trip.Runner 2 will come out and I will enjoy it)

@Abendlaender said:

Same procedure as last year? Same procedure as every year, James.

-The gaming press, like every other industry in existance, will do some pretty stupid things. And people will get angry about it and then stop caring about it two weeks later.

-The "internet" will be terribly upset by something pretty stupid and the people who have legitimate problems with said thing will be overshadowed by a bunch of morons, making a discussion impossible. Also a bunch of "BEST GAMES EVARR" and "WURST GAMES EVARR" will be released. GTA V will get great reviews, much to the chagrin of some people who know as a fact that it doesn't deserve a 10/10, a bunch of other games will clearly be over/underrated, everybody in the entire press will get bought at some point and the new consoles will come out and weirdly enough there will be people calling them the worst consoles ever and Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft/PCgaming/iOS/Android are doomed.

There, I just spoiled the year for you.

(Also Bit.Trip.Runner 2 will come out and I will enjoy it)

Dude... Spoiler tag that! :(

@ArtisanBreads said:

ha people should want to carry themselves with civility. If they don't, I'm not going to say "Oh well it's the internet" even if that's what it's sadly usually like.

Well they don't carry themselves like that and if they don't they should be ignored, not blamed for the industry's woes

Who gives a fuck about Geoff Keighly being in front of some Doritios? Dudes basically Ryan Seacrest of videogames.

I care because it shows how terrible gaming journalism is. Imagine Tom Brokaw answering questions about "what it takes to become a journalist" while Bud Lite and Playboy ads are playing in the background. And after every question he'd have to throw out some line endorsing the products. There'd be a fucking firestorm in the mainstream press.

.. was your world really shattered when you saw that?

No. My opinions were reinforced however.

Can you not trust his reviews he doesn't write now?

No, I can't.

It's all so overboard. In real journalism there isn't even this insane "integrity" obsession.

There certainly should be that obsession. To want the people delivering you news to not be corrupt is insane? Why the hell don't we hold anyone up to high standards?

@Gaff said:

@Abendlaender said:

Same procedure as last year? Same procedure as every year, James.

-The gaming press, like every other industry in existance, will do some pretty stupid things. And people will get angry about it and then stop caring about it two weeks later.

-The "internet" will be terribly upset by something pretty stupid and the people who have legitimate problems with said thing will be overshadowed by a bunch of morons, making a discussion impossible. Also a bunch of "BEST GAMES EVARR" and "WURST GAMES EVARR" will be released. GTA V will get great reviews, much to the chagrin of some people who know as a fact that it doesn't deserve a 10/10, a bunch of other games will clearly be over/underrated, everybody in the entire press will get bought at some point and the new consoles will come out and weirdly enough there will be people calling them the worst consoles ever and Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft/PCgaming/iOS/Android are doomed.

There, I just spoiled the year for you.

(Also Bit.Trip.Runner 2 will come out and I will enjoy it)

Dude... Spoiler tag that! :(

NEVER! MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I think it is ridiculous how much people are blaming the internet in this thread. Does it over react? Yeah a whole lot but that doesn't make how the press works any better. People seem to be using the internet being bad to ignore problems with the people who's job it is to give you fair news coverage.

Yeah the people who petitioned for a new ME3 ending were silly but there was really criticism. All that was reported was the petition though and I bet most people didn't even look if there were other complaints, anyone who didn't like it was a dirty entitled troll who didn't know what they were talking about. Then in 6 months everyone just agreed the ending was kinda shit like they hadn't been screeching entitled for ages

Same procedure as last year? Same procedure as every year, James.

-The gaming press, like every other industry in existance, will do some pretty stupid things. And people will get angry about it and then stop caring about it two weeks later.

-The "internet" will be terribly upset by something pretty stupid and the people who have legitimate problems with said thing will be overshadowed by a bunch of morons, making a discussion impossible. Also a bunch of "BEST GAMES EVARR" and "WURST GAMES EVARR" will be released. GTA V will get great reviews, much to the chagrin of some people who know as a fact that it doesn't deserve a 10/10, a bunch of other games will clearly be over/underrated, everybody in the entire press will get bought at some point and the new consoles will come out and weirdly enough there will be people calling them the worst consoles ever and Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft/PCgaming/iOS/Android are doomed.

There, I just spoiled the year for you.

(Also Bit.Trip.Runner 2 will come out and I will enjoy it)

Fair question: How many video game journalists actually have had training in actual journalism?

@algertman: And, as far as I'm concerned, thank God for that! BioWare's been an even more problematic studio than this since the release of the original KOTOR. They didn't have a gameplay model I enjoyed between KOTOR and DAO, only nailing something I really enjoyed playing with Mass Effect 2. I dunno if you've gone back and looked at KOTOR, but it's basically a character template for what they'd try to do with ME, missing most of the charm, production value, and legitimately witty writing that makes Mass Effect what it is. I enjoyed watching my cousing play KOTOR a couple years after its release, but it's held up poorly in terms of gameplay.

ME2 was the first BioWare game I loved playing. DAII was a disappointment, absolutely, but I actually dig ME3 more than the other two Mass Effect games. It's ambitious as hell, it's got some of the most powerful moments in the entire series, and its gameplay model and multiplayer are better than ever.

I'm not saying you're an entitled crybaby for disagreeing with me. You can think it's shit, and that the DLC was shit too (I certainly have issue mostly with the From Ashes DLC, which absolutely would have made the game more palatable for a lot of people if it were on the disc.) You can think the gaming press handled it badly, too. I totally understand why you'd disagree with me.

I just wonder why it took everybody so long to realize BioWare had these problems, because outside of the DLC model, the issues dominating ME3 have dominated BioWare games since KOTOR. With ME3, they made a game I can legitimately call my own and really love. The whole franchise is stuff I enjoyed, but ME3 is special to me. I'm sorry you didn't feel that way. I'm guessing you preferred BioWare pre-EA. I...definitely did not.

The mission stories in ME3 were some of the best of the series. The issue is and always has been that the ending was goofed by a combination of things, internal and external. I don't think it does any company any good to "take as much time as they want" let alone Bioware but the change was abrupt going from a game where you believe Shepard could go anywhere and solve any problem to a corridor the player steers Shepard down.

What I find interesting about the whole event is that this isn't the first time something came out and the finale was bungled where fans where vocally grumbling about how it went. What is interesting is that Bioware caved. Was this also due to external pressures? We may never know for sure but for me whatever argument they had about creative license got mostly flushed. This along with how the other pieces of DLC played out really makes me suspect that all of the problems where not due to concern about the integrity of the story.

All of this leaves me with the anxiety that Bioware isn't really in control of their product let alone their destiny any more. Are we getting another Dragon Age because Bioware feels they can do another one or is it because EA feels Bioware should do another one? Back to the journalism angle, I would love to see a long form article on all of this.

This much?

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-mythic-coke-chug-challenge/17-229/

@Carousel said:

@ArtisanBreads said:

ha people should want to carry themselves with civility. If they don't, I'm not going to say "Oh well it's the internet" even if that's what it's sadly usually like.

Well they don't carry themselves like that and if they don't they should be ignored, not blamed for the industry's woes

Who gives a fuck about Geoff Keighly being in front of some Doritios? Dudes basically Ryan Seacrest of videogames.

I care because it shows how terrible gaming journalism is. Imagine Tom Brokaw answering questions about "what it takes to become a journalist" while Bud Lite and Playboy ads are playing in the background. And after every question he'd have to throw out some line endorsing the products. There'd be a fucking firestorm in the mainstream press.

.. was your world really shattered when you saw that?

No. My opinions were reinforced however.

Can you not trust his reviews he doesn't write now?

No, I can't.

It's all so overboard. In real journalism there isn't even this insane "integrity" obsession.

There certainly should be that obsession. To want the people delivering you news to not be corrupt is insane? Why the hell don't we hold anyone up to high standards?

And yet, Keighly is not Tom Brokaw. Again, he is basically Ryan Seacrest of the video game world. Keighly is not "delivering you the news" and he is not "corrupt and insane"... if you are this dramatic then I just don't get it and we will never see eye to eye. It's your point of view that I find insane.

Couldn't you just not go on Gametrailers?

Seriously, take a deep breath. These are VIDEOGAMES. This is just crazy to read. You say you can't trust his reviews... you realize the point I'm making is HE DOESN'T WRITE REVIEWS? He is nothing but a host. Holy crap.

@algertman said:

@Baillie said:

@algertman said:

@Mike76x said:

@Little_Socrates said:

The fanbase was generally REALLY GROSS about Mass Effect 3. Not so much the "change the ending" people, as they were frustrating from an artistic integrity sensibility, but those who spat bilious venom towards the staff of BioWare. I'll remind you that a ridiculous number of people were screaming hate speech at the game's primary writer about a month before the game released. Enough felt like it was enough.

You generally lose the ability to claim artistic integrity, when you show you have none.

When your game has as much DLC as ME3 art should never even be mentioned.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that statement?

He claimed ME3 ending hate was frustrating from a artistic point of view. I say artictistic integrity was was never part of that game.

DLC is one thing, but actual artistic integrity would have been telling EA : "no we are not ripping out Javik and rewriting the entire story because he's an integral character so you can charge $9.99"

or

"Hey the indoctrination mechanic doesn't work and Casey killed the boss fight so we need more time to work on the ending, because making a hallucination the main evil is stupid, and all our current ending decisions are completely contradicted by everything the player already experienced."

The fanbase was disgusting in attacking Bioware employees, and the gaming "press" was disgusting in barely acknowledging that while tripping over themselves to defend a terrible story and terrible business practices.

@SmilingPig said:

This much?

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-mythic-coke-chug-challenge/17-229/

Whoa! nothing embarrassing about that!

I totally tried it minutes after i saw that video way back when...

I know i'm an idiot.

10 sec is what i did.

This thread is fucking sad. Remember when people use to play games?

@JZ said:

This thread is fucking sad. Remember when people use to play games?

Amen brother.

Why anyone is so worked up over Geoff Keighly.... I just don't understand. I never will.

@JZ said:

This thread is fucking sad. Remember when people use to play games?

I do. It was 15-20 years ago, before the internet was a major player in the video game industry and people were much less frequently held accountable for questionable shit.

Times change. Get over it.

Hmmmm this guy gets payed by a company, like a "business" or something. Keighly's entire job is to inform you that games exist. He's always going to say a game looks great, because he's interviewing the person making it. You don't tell someone that that your interviewing you don't like their thing. It's really really rude.

@Mike76x: As for Javik, that was business people, not the actor, graphic designer, or writers who created him. For the ten people involved in choosing to make Javik DLC, there were thirty who actually created the content that appears in From Ashes.

I agree that the business heads should have recognized that more time would have been appreciated, but I still stand by the ending to the game. I legitimately love the story of ME3 while acknowledging its several significant flaws, and I know I'm not alone. I presume some of the press feels the same way.

Also, I'm blown away this thread hasn't been locked yet.

@WinterSnowblind said:

@StarvingGamer said:

If anything, I'd ask how badly will the gaming community embarrass themselves this year. Because last year was a fucking joke. I've never seen so much blind bandwagoning on arguments completely devoid of any semblance of common sense.

I hope you're not referring to the outrage over ME3's ending, because I think that's exactly what the topic creator was getting at.

People had legitimate and typically well explained reasons for disliking what happened and the press basically brushed it aside as "entitlement". Some people took their complaints too far, but that's always the case and the journalists proved to be just as immature as the ones whining.

A lot of what I saw with the ME3 controversy were some reviews saying they didn't mind the ending, followed by people crucifying those reviewers for thinking that. It's cool to not like it, but it's also cool if you thought it was fine.

As far as the "entitlement" thing, that was the word thrown at the people signing bullshit petitions to attempt to change the ending, which was ridiculous.

At least, this is how I experienced the situation. I didn't encounter games press folks taking complaints too far.

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x: As for Javik, that was business people, not the actor, graphic designer, or writers who created him. For the ten people involved in choosing to make Javik DLC, there were thirty who actually created the content that appears in From Ashes.

I agree that the business heads should have recognized that more time would have been appreciated, but I still stand by the ending to the game. I legitimately love the story of ME3 while acknowledging its several significant flaws, and I know I'm not alone. I presume some of the press feels the same way.

Also, I'm blown away this thread hasn't been locked yet.

"business people" didn't create Javik. He was a "key character" and was removed so EA could have their $9.99 DLC.

Removing him required re-writing the story, that is the opposite of "artistic integrity".

Just like the Mass Effect: Deception was crap because the writer literally knew nothing of the Mass Effect universe, the endings of the game were crap because the people responsible didn't pay attention to everything that came before add to that they were stuck ending the game in the indoctrination corner they had painted themselves into.

@Gaff: Basically it was hyped so much on release, both hyped up gamers and the media was its personal defence force at the time.

It turned to a point where so gamers felt forced to accept it as "one of the all time greats" it took a while till that died down and the haters could get vocal while some people slowly realized they hated it

I know the term "forced" is a heavy term but it was the only word I could think of that explains it.

@Mike76x: I misspoke; I meant that business people were the ones who decided he should be DLC, not the thirty artists who created him.

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Also, Indoctrination Theory hasn't been en vogue for over half a year now. Their story is simply strange, and also problematic, but I don't think they were ever aiming for that idea.

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

This much?

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-mythic-coke-chug-challenge/17-229/

@algertman said:

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

So is every other post about the nature of ME3 -or any- DLC until someone inside Bioware spills his beans.

@Gaff said:

@algertman said:

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

So is every other post about the nature of ME3 -or any- DLC until someone inside Bioware spills his beans.

From what I remember a writer did come out and say most of the writing staff was locked out of any discussion of the endings.

@algertman said:

@Gaff said:

@algertman said:

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

So is every other post about the nature of ME3 -or any- DLC until someone inside Bioware spills his beans.

From what I remember a writer did come out and say most of the writing staff was locked out of any discussion of the endings.

And that is related to the ME3 DLC?

@Gaff said:

@algertman said:

@Gaff said:

@algertman said:

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

So is every other post about the nature of ME3 -or any- DLC until someone inside Bioware spills his beans.

From what I remember a writer did come out and say most of the writing staff was locked out of any discussion of the endings.

And that is related to the ME3 DLC?

No but's it's about the nature of ME3 which you mentioned in your post. I'm sure Jessica Chobot from IGN was added in the game for artistic reasons.

The thing about ME3 defenders it's that you argue in circles. You can break down every argument they have and they will just keep bringing up different things till you get right back to square one and you have to start over.

@algertman: I try very hard not to argue in circles, but I see your complaint. My claim was predicated on the following statements:

1) The leaked script containing information about a Prothean party member was real, and there was, at one point, a Prothean party member in the full game's script.

2) If said leaked script is true, the Prothean was removed from the main game at some point.

3) The BioWare team decided to create content related to a Prothean party member. This became the From Ashes content, and may or may not have been an adaptation of the original Prothean content.

4) At any point between steps 2, 3, and the game's release (of which we know only that the game's release was last) EA decided the From Ashes content should be delivered as DLC and chose to sell it in that format.

All I'm saying is statements 2 and 4 do not invalidate the work done on statement 3. The artistic integrity of thirty creators is separate from the artistic integrity of the ten businessmen who hired them and chose for Javik to appear as DLC.

The nature of ME3 is largely speculative, but there are things we do know, especially if the leaked script is real.

@Little_Socrates: Business won out over art. That's what happened. They had to restructure certain aspects of the game to fit the DLC model. You lumping everything together as artistic integrity doesn't change that. they saw they could cut something of the game for DLC and that's what happened. You even admit to that in your post. I'm done talking about ME3 because it's boring and we're going in circles.

So Penny Arcade owes OYUA an apology. 
  
So a while back PA Report posted this article slamming OUYA on July 12th.  At this time OUYA and PA has their Kickstarters going.  They both start and end at about the same time and article was posted shortly after the start.  There is one big difference in those kickstarters and it's about $8,000,000.  There is also another major difference in all of this.  PA was taking up money to kill ads and be "free."  We all know this is a lie because PAX has exhibit space for big time developers and publishers and that space is not free so they are still getting money from them.  OUYA on the other hand was offering a physical thing in return for your money.  PA was threatened by OUYA and stuck their attack dog Kuchera on it to cool the flames and cast doubt which failed.  Now OUYA has a release date for retail stores while PA is the same with Kuchera  going around acting like an ass to people on twitter.    

I don't think they can embarrass themselves any further, to be frank. All that ME3 stuff left a real bad taste in my mouth.

Seriously, am I the only person who finds it hilarious and kind of appropriate that algertman's avatar is the coked-up fuckface from Die Hard?

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x: I misspoke; I meant that business people were the ones who decided he should be DLC, not the thirty artists who created him.

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Also, Indoctrination Theory hasn't been en vogue for over half a year now. Their story is simply strange, and also problematic, but I don't think they were ever aiming for that idea.

The fact still remains, they can't claim artistic integrity when they never had any.

Seriously, it's not indoctrination "theory".

Indoctrination was there, it was real it was an absolute fact. They couldn't figure out how to make Shepard work as an indoctrinated character, so they cut the end before the resolution and made a hallucination the main bad guy.

@algertman said:

@Gaff said:

@algertman said:

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

So is every other post about the nature of ME3 -or any- DLC until someone inside Bioware spills his beans.

From what I remember a writer did come out and say most of the writing staff was locked out of any discussion of the endings.

A post from a Bioware writers account did say that.

Then it was deleted and claimed the account was hacked and the post was false.

I find a problem in the gaming media that ... Even the ones who aren't on the take, and this is most of them, especially at majors ... most of them really have no clue at what journalism entails, or don't really understand what role they exactly play. Patrick doesn't understand the difference between reporting and editorializing. It seems like no one understands that reviews and previews simply act as product guides. You know, like a car magazine talking about gearshifts and shit.

Almost all the problems with the games media is that they don't understand their role as media, and their audience doesn't understand it either.

@algertman said:

It's public knowledge that MS wrote Polygon a huge check.

To promote Internet Explorer. Not only is that not a game, but is in fact from a different division of one of the largest companies worldwide. It's also worth noting that things such this are fairly common e.g. ad's on any site whether it be news, sports, humor, or fashion, or even competitors in one area working together in another e.g. Columbia (A division of Sony) paying Microsoft to promote The Amazing Spiderman on Xbox Live or Sony promoting their latest computers already having Windows 8 built in.

Hell look at this.http://kotaku.com/5953989/we-just-unboxed-500-worth-of-halo-4-stuff-to-help-you-decide-if-its-worth-it

People like watching unboxing videos so they can see what their buying and if the extra stuff is worth it, or alternatively want to see stuff like that Xbox that was released a while back that looked like R2-D2 even if they know that they won't buy it, because it's dumb and cool.

So Penny Arcade owes OYUA an apology.

So a while back PA Report posted this article slamming OUYA on July 12th. At this time OUYA and PA has their Kickstarters going. They both start and end at about the same time and article was posted shortly after the start. There is one big difference in those kickstarters and it's about $8,000,000. There is also another major difference in all of this. PA was taking up money to kill ads and be "free." We all know this is a lie because PAX has exhibit space for big time developers and publishers and that space is not free so they are still getting money from them. OUYA on the other hand was offering a physical thing in return for your money. PA was threatened by OUYA and stuck their attack dog Kuchera on it to cool the flames and cast doubt which failed. Now OUYA has a release date for retail stores while PA is the same with Kuchera going around acting like an ass to people on twitter.

If you look back at both Kickstarters in question, you will see that both of them made their goals in fairly little time. Also reading through stuff on the PA Report shows that Kuchera's given autonomy from Penny Arcade and pretty much does his own thing e.g. the occasional movie review. The reason that major publishers attend PAX is because the crowds are there, which makes it an ideal place to show off your game and build a great deal of hype in the process that would otherwise be missed, especially when PAX would still be a large draw without them.

@algertman said:

@Gaff said:

@algertman said:

@Little_Socrates said:

@Mike76x:

And they did choose to remove him from the core content of the game, but I don't think it was just to make From Ashes DLC. Afterwards, they decided the character still added something and chose to create his content anyways, and EA decided to deliver that content as DLC. Any more than that is speculation.

Your post is speculation.

So is every other post about the nature of ME3 -or any- DLC until someone inside Bioware spills his beans.

From what I remember a writer did come out and say most of the writing staff was locked out of any discussion of the endings.

A post from a Bioware writers account did say that.

Then it was deleted and claimed the account was hacked and the post was false.

Man, it has to be a really lonely solitary existence caring this much about what a reviewer thinks about a video game.

How Badly Will The Gaming Public Embarrass Themselves This Year?

Answer: Super Badly

People seem to forget real quick or just straight up ignore how badly the gaming audience treats people in the press or in the games industry or ANYONE they do not agree with (including other gamers). The public's reaction and the manner in which we choose to express our displeasure with people in the gaming community can get real fucking dark and ugly and you should expect people who write about gaming for a living to take notice.

@algertman said:

It's public knowledge that MS wrote Polygon a huge check.

To promote Internet Explorer. Not only is that not a game, but is in fact from a different division of one of the largest companies worldwide. It's also worth noting that things such this are fairly common e.g. ad's on any site whether it be news, sports, humor, or fashion, or even competitors in one area working together in another e.g. Columbia (A division of Sony) paying Microsoft to promote The Amazing Spiderman on Xbox Live or Sony promoting their latest computers already having Windows 8 built in.

Hell look at this.http://kotaku.com/5953989/we-just-unboxed-500-worth-of-halo-4-stuff-to-help-you-decide-if-its-worth-it

People like watching unboxing videos so they can see what their buying and if the extra stuff is worth it, or alternatively want to see stuff like that Xbox that was released a while back that looked like R2-D2 even if they know that they won't buy it, because it's dumb and cool.

So Penny Arcade owes OYUA an apology.

So a while back PA Report posted this article slamming OUYA on July 12th. At this time OUYA and PA has their Kickstarters going. They both start and end at about the same time and article was posted shortly after the start. There is one big difference in those kickstarters and it's about $8,000,000. There is also another major difference in all of this. PA was taking up money to kill ads and be "free." We all know this is a lie because PAX has exhibit space for big time developers and publishers and that space is not free so they are still getting money from them. OUYA on the other hand was offering a physical thing in return for your money. PA was threatened by OUYA and stuck their attack dog Kuchera on it to cool the flames and cast doubt which failed. Now OUYA has a release date for retail stores while PA is the same with Kuchera going around acting like an ass to people on twitter.

If you look back at both Kickstarters in question, you will see that both of them made their goals in fairly little time. Also reading through stuff on the PA Report shows that Kuchera's given autonomy from Penny Arcade and pretty much does his own thing e.g. the occasional movie review. The reason that major publishers attend PAX is because the crowds are there, which makes it an ideal place to show off your game and build a great deal of hype in the process that would otherwise be missed, especially when PAX would still be a large draw without them.

@algertman said:

People like this is what's wrong with gaming from the consumer end of things. Polygon got bought off. MS doesn't need Kotaku to do a unboxing video for them. I'm sure them getting all that free stuff in no way effected their view on MS or future coverage. PS set a goal they knew they could hit. This was after Double Fine so $250k isn't really that big of a number to hit. It was nothing more than them asking for money and seeing who would be stupid enough to give it to them.

Penny Arcade never deceived about what they were Kickstarting. They clearly laid out what ads would go away, and at what breakpoints. They explained how their PATV videos stilll had to have ads, and so forth. The stuff they promised, happened. They never said "everything we do will have no backing from industry sources".

@algertman said:

@moffattron9000 said:

@algertman said:

It's public knowledge that MS wrote Polygon a huge check.

To promote Internet Explorer. Not only is that not a game, but is in fact from a different division of one of the largest companies worldwide. It's also worth noting that things such this are fairly common e.g. ad's on any site whether it be news, sports, humor, or fashion, or even competitors in one area working together in another e.g. Columbia (A division of Sony) paying Microsoft to promote The Amazing Spiderman on Xbox Live or Sony promoting their latest computers already having Windows 8 built in.

Hell look at this.http://kotaku.com/5953989/we-just-unboxed-500-worth-of-halo-4-stuff-to-help-you-decide-if-its-worth-it

People like watching unboxing videos so they can see what their buying and if the extra stuff is worth it, or alternatively want to see stuff like that Xbox that was released a while back that looked like R2-D2 even if they know that they won't buy it, because it's dumb and cool.

So Penny Arcade owes OYUA an apology.

So a while back PA Report posted this article slamming OUYA on July 12th. At this time OUYA and PA has their Kickstarters going. They both start and end at about the same time and article was posted shortly after the start. There is one big difference in those kickstarters and it's about $8,000,000. There is also another major difference in all of this. PA was taking up money to kill ads and be "free." We all know this is a lie because PAX has exhibit space for big time developers and publishers and that space is not free so they are still getting money from them. OUYA on the other hand was offering a physical thing in return for your money. PA was threatened by OUYA and stuck their attack dog Kuchera on it to cool the flames and cast doubt which failed. Now OUYA has a release date for retail stores while PA is the same with Kuchera going around acting like an ass to people on twitter.

If you look back at both Kickstarters in question, you will see that both of them made their goals in fairly little time. Also reading through stuff on the PA Report shows that Kuchera's given autonomy from Penny Arcade and pretty much does his own thing e.g. the occasional movie review. The reason that major publishers attend PAX is because the crowds are there, which makes it an ideal place to show off your game and build a great deal of hype in the process that would otherwise be missed, especially when PAX would still be a large draw without them.

People like this is what's wrong with gaming from the consumer end of things. Polygon got bought off. MS doesn't need Kotaku to do a unboxing video for them. I'm sure them getting all that free stuff in no way effected their view on MS or future coverage. PS set a goal they knew they could hit. This was after Double Fine so $250k isn't really that big of a number to hit. It was nothing more than them asking for money and seeing who would be stupid enough to give it to them.

If my local university took 5 years to get a uniform grading structure, what makes think that a company that employs 94,000 people is going to have all sails be heading in the same direction. Case in point; despite Metro being Microsoft's major push, Office doesn't run naively on it. Just to give you context, that is Microsoft's second biggest source of revenue after Windows.

As for the Penny Arcade stuff, they said that this is how much they need for items X, Y, and Z, and if extra money is there at the end they'll put it towards keeping ad's off the site for longer. Also many people like supporting things that they like, and if they have another route to do so then they'll take it.

Another way to look at is, what did PA do that was inconsistent with being on the up-and-up?

• Their news site posted one negative article about 1 gaming kickstarter at the same time they had a KS going. There were a lot of gaming KSes at the time and Ouya wasn't exactly the best bet. Even if they didn't have a KS of their own, there is a good chance they would have run that story. They were not the only ones doubting Ouya.
• They ran a KS to remove ads. This is not an idea only they have had. I've seen other cartoonists talk about using KS to fund their work instead of ads or cons.

It's always possibly they had a devious motive, but I don't think the evidence supports it more than their stated motive.

@algertman said:

So Penny Arcade owes OYUA an apology.

So a while back PA Report posted this article slamming OUYA on July 12th. At this time OUYA and PA has their Kickstarters going. They both start and end at about the same time and article was posted shortly after the start. There is one big difference in those kickstarters and it's about $8,000,000. There is also another major difference in all of this. PA was taking up money to kill ads and be "free." We all know this is a lie because PAX has exhibit space for big time developers and publishers and that space is not free so they are still getting money from them. OUYA on the other hand was offering a physical thing in return for your money. PA was threatened by OUYA and stuck their attack dog Kuchera on it to cool the flames and cast doubt which failed. Now OUYA has a release date for retail stores while PA is the same with Kuchera going around acting like an ass to people on twitter.

Why would PA be threatened by OUYA? One wanted to remove ads from their website and the other is trying to make an android gaming console. These are not competing entities in any respect or are you of the opinion that their Kickstarters were somehow competing for the same finite amount of money and if people didn't spend their money on the OUYA that money would be spent funding PA's kickstarter instead.

For the record there were a ton of people in the games industry who, at the time, suspected the OUYA KS for a number of legitimate reasons, not least of which was how much money they were (or were not) asking for and also the fact that this company was totally new, untested, and unheard of until this KS popped up.

ALSO you call the PA kickstarter a 'lie' because PA is still 'getting money' from 'big time developers and publishers' at PAX. Except that, had you read PA's kickstarter, nowhere does it state that they are requesting money so that they can cut all ties with advertisers and be totally financially independent as a company in all respects. Hell it doesn't even mention PAX at all. It DOES specifically state however, that they are raising money to get rid of ads from their website. That's. It. and guess what, they have since delivered on that promise while the OUYA is still an 8 million dollar question mark.

PAX is one of the largest and most popular fan events in North America and they put that motherfucker on twice a year now (soon to be 3 times a year, internationally). You require sponsors to run events as large as that, not because you'll turn a profit, but because there's no way you could pay for everything without a little help. Also it's an event where people go to play games, so of-fucking-course you need developers and publishers to be there.Yes, I imagine PA makes some profit off of PAX because they aren't running a goddamn co-op but I can almost assure you (based on the growth of the events over the years and the additions of new ones) that money will probably go straight back into the PAXs of next year.