How does this make you feel? (Anita Sarkeesian video)

@anomareh: @milkman: If you think it's a shit thread then why actively try and make it worse? Take a look at the posts in this thread; the only shit ones are the ones from people who come in here with nothing more to say than *FAARTTT NOISEESS PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH* and then leave. There's been a lot of whining about the quality of the discourse on the forums lately but posts like these are the biggest problem. Otherwise this thread would be half it's size and mostly comprised of people who actually gave a damn about talking about it, which would be better for all involved.

Don't care if she's a gamer or not, but her posting a murder fantasy about Randy Pitchford and admitting that she liked it really bugged me.

@marokai: Fine. You want a real opinion. Here ya go. You made me do this.

The term "real gamer" is so completely meaningless and laughable. What's a real gamer? What does that mean and why does it matter? More importantly, how does it make any of her criticisms less valid?

The ends that some people will go to discredit these completely harmless and most of the time, completely obvious videos is reaching the point of disturbing. I stopped watching them. I watched the first two, thought they were perfectly fine but we're pretty obvious critiques of the industry that seem pretty readily apparent to anyone paying attention. The amount of effort that people have gone through to silence her proves her point way more than any video she will ever or has ever made. It would be extremely easy for these people to simply not watch her videos if they don't have any interest in feminism or how it relates to games. But instead they try to expose these "scandals" and non-existent controversies, which are all just thinly veiled ways of saying "the mean lady is gonna take away my video games."

If you want to critique Anita's videos, absolutely, be my guest. They certainly are not immune from criticism. But if your best defense is essentially "she's a fake gamer girl" then please don't waste my time.

@marokai: You know what would be even better? If people searched the forums before creating new threads. In this case, the OP would have discovered the 800 threads that already exist on this board discussing Anita Sarkeesian. Then, after reading them, they'd discover the video and topic they were going to start a thread about had already been discussed to death.

Even if you care about this discussion, it's a shit thread. Zero effort went into creating it and it brings absolutely nothing new to the table. Feel free to keep holding on to your delusions for dear life though.

I DON'T FUCKING CARE.

What a fucking waste of time and effort that video was. Just because she made a quick remark during a lecture way in the past does not prove that she is not a "real gamer" whatever the fuck that means. I don't even like her videos but the Anita hate is somehow even more petty and pathetic, get a life people, Jesus!

Any way to filter these threads?

Creepy robot voice makes me completely uninterested in the entire video. Like i listened to it, why? I dont know i was bored. But jesus christ, using a robot voice for narration is one way to get people to ignore anything you're saying.

Also finding a SINGLE video of her denying liking video games during a presentation at school is not proof. Maybe she was lying during that old presentation? Saying she didnt like video games to give her stupid presentation more merit? I mean fuck.

Also WHO CARES

Creepy robot voice makes me completely uninterested in the entire video. Like i listened to it, why? I dont know i was bored. But jesus christ, using a robot voice for narration is one way to get people to ignore anything you're saying.

Also finding a SINGLE video of her denying liking video games during a presentation at school is not proof. Maybe she was lying during that old presentation? Saying she didnt like video games to give her stupid presentation more merit? I mean fuck.

Also WHO CARES

You kind of do, otherwise your opinion is just sorta invalid.
It's like adults screaming and complaining that games are making the youth more violent but they don't even play games, they don't know how the games work or anything of the sort. They're just spouting bs about things they don't know.

@milkman: I see where you're coming from re: hating the term "real gamer" and the weird "fake gamer girl" witch-hunts, but I think it's a bit more complicated than that when it comes to Anita. I'm not up in arms over her being a "fake gamer girl" or anything, I'm more irritated that it feels like she doesn't really care that much about video games and is only using this video series as a means of furthering her career and her delusions of being some sort of important academic and public speaker. The way she talks about video games in her pitch videos sound like the way my local evening news anchorman and woman would talk about video games.

It casts a suspicious light on her criticisms because she's repeatedly been caught not knowing what the fuck she's talking about, or taking clips of games entirely out of context based on what she probably just read in a TVTropes page. The reason people think she's a fraud (or, at least, doesn't know as much as she claims to) is because she's been caught stealing other peoples' footage and refusing to give them any credit and has given conflicting lines about how much she really cares about games.

If you say "so what if ___ and ___ and ___ are true about her, how does that completely invalidate her criticisms" then why couldn't the same be true of the people who go too far in criticizing her? Why does every criticism of her have to get shut down because of some stupid people in YouTube comments saying they like her tits, or whatever?

And can we have a thought experiment here for a second? If this was an overweight 30 year old dude making these same arguments, and had as many yellow flags raised about him, his ethics, his past, his motivations, would people be as stubborn and hesitant about the possibility that he might be playing everyone for his own fame and fortune as people are with Anita? It's like people take a cursory glance at her videos, think "oh she's a soft spoken, innocent looking young girl! how could anyone get so angry about her?" and then get super defensive about anything said about her. I think sexism in society is still super alive and well, but perhaps not in quite the same way as others do.

ugh this, I feel like I keep seeing the same 3-4 people posting these sexism threads, then complaining about all the sexism talk/threads.

@jasonr86 said:

Missing the point.

I see threads like this and I don't really want to be called a gamer either.

It makes me think 'How in the fuck did she go from blogger to doing lectures at DICE in front of the people who made Mirror's Edge?' and 'Why is she famous again?'

I really hate this trend. I hope people who aren't interested in video games would just leave it alone. There are thousands of other hobbies out there. Why shit up one you don't even like?

Yeah, I'm more of an interactive entertainment enthusiast.

How so?

You don't have to be a fan to do research on, and then critique, a medium. People do it in literature classes in colleges every single day.

@marokai: My point is that her motivations don't matter. Whether or not she cares about video games doesn't matter. Whether or not she's just doing it to further her career doesn't matter. What does matter is the content of her videos. If you want to criticize that, go right ahead. I'm not trying to shut down anyone who has an issue with her videos.

I don't know if she really likes games and I don't really care. As @jasonr86 points out, not being a fan of a medium doesn't mean someone can't criticize that medium as long as they do their research, which as much as you may dislike her, she clearly has done. I don't really know where this "she's just a innocent girl" narrative you see is coming from. For my money, I have never seen more vitriol and outright hatred towards anyone on the internet. I've definitely seen way more "Anita's a bitch" posts than "leave Anita alone" posts. I would turn your thought experiment around and say if this was an overweight 30 year old man, would nearly as many people hate him? I have my doubts.

I going to riff as well, so no contention here.

I understand, but it can be argued that people calling her defenders "white knights" is about as fair as calling her detractors "misogynists." Most of us know that isn't the case.

Purely focusing on men because I am one, but are there people out there that are into her videos because they think it will give them more opportunities for pussy? Maybe. Are there people out there that dislike her videos because they secretly resent women? Who knows? It's one of those things where we have to treat everyone at face value. Are there white knights and misogynists in the world of video games? I think so, but how many of each? I don't think most would openly cop to either. Granted, some people make assumptions about others anyway; I try not to, even though I probably did without realizing it in the past.

I agree with @milkman about her importance, though. She occasionally makes harmless videos that are obvious. Like Jenn Frank said (I think...), at best, they're mildly entertaining in a way YouTube super-cuts are entertaining. I believe Anita would not get the attention she has received if videos like in the OP didn't exist. Sure, everyone has a right to their opinion and I'm not trying to take that away, but I think ignoring her has more power than repeatedly acknowledging her (especially since she hasn't released a video in 6 weeks). Kind of a variation of the Streisand effect. As lame as that all sounds (as lame as "vote with your dollar, dude"), I think there's some truth to it.

A couple of talks and a course at a community college isn't that big of a deal, to me at least. I understand people's fears, but I don't think the industry is going to change because of one person (e.g., Jack Thompson). There is always going to be violence and sex in video games because people demand it. If some developers want to make more inclusive games, then I don't see a problem with it. It doesn't necessarily mean that more "controversial" titles will disappear. Gone Home isn't going to replace Killer Is Dead; I think there will always be room for both as long as there's an audience for them.

Like all human beings she expresses a wide range of opinions on the media she consumes. Like all human beings, she is entitled to those opinions, and entitled to express those opinions in any responsible manner she desires. Like all human beings you are entitled to listen to her opinion, ignore her opinion, or react to her opinion in any way you desire.

I personally believe that maybe, just maybe, video games have yet to span the entire width, length and depth of human emotion and storytelling. And that through discussion and criticism we can inspire creators to branch out and explore new paths. I personally don't think this is such a crazy or negative idea.

Hey some girl wants to push progressive thinking into a medium dominated by misogyny, where 90% of the main characters are 30 something white male black op-ish dudes...

There got to be something fishy about it right!?... This woman is up to something, she must be pushing for a communist (or even worst) a muslim agenda!

God, I hate the term 'real gamer' it's just so darn stupid. To be honest I don't really know who she is but you are allowed to have an opinion about something. You don't have to have spent your entire life playing games to be the only one to have an opinion about them. It doesn't matter if that opinion is right or wrong, it's theirs and there's nothing you can do about it.

I've never skydived (in real life that is) yet even I have an opinion about that... it's pretty crazy.

It is not because of the gender but because of what she is claiming and saying. It does not matter if she is a man women, black or white. Her opinion is just absurd. For the part if it matters if she is a gamer or not I agree with you.

No she just wants to be an attention whore and make money off of it. Mission accomplished.

You know, after all of this bullshit, I want someone to do a paper on the response to her videos. It would be infinitely more entertaining, thoughtful, and relevant to feminism than her videos.

To be honest I would love if she came out and did it herself and that her videos were just a ploy (because generally they're super basic and not super interesting) to measure the response of the internet.

and it would be a positive to the longest and dullest internet crusade ever conceived

The issue here is if she is intentionally misrepresenting herself--also known as lying--not if she should have an opinion. I'm sure she knows quite a bit now about various video game plots and characters, and has learned a lot through research. The problem is that all of that could have been presented as an outsider looking in, rather than lying to everyone.

Some have said that she is only doing this for the money, and I've defended her by saying that nobody could possibly know that one way or another, so why suggest otherwise?

Some have said that she doesn't actually like video games, and I've also defended her by saying that nobody could possibly know that one way or another, so why suggest otherwise?

The first statement is still unknown, while the second statement is now very much a subject of debate. Simple as that.

But I still feel that the core of her issue with video games is violence, not sexism. She just presents her argument through a feminist viewpoint.

I also love that she used closeup of Bayonetta pointing her gun at another woman with a gun (you only saw the guns in the picture, but if you know the game you can tell where the scene comes from) in her "Too Many Dicks" video.

And as I just argued, "nobody could possibly know that one way or another, so why suggest otherwise?"

She took a shitload of money for a video project that costs nothing even close to the amount she was given. The thing is, that's how kickstarter works. She gets to take as much time as she wants working on videos, and doesn't need another source of income.

If she couldn't care less about feminism other than exploiting the cause for profit, she's a con artist. If she deeply cares about feminism and the representation of females in media, then she's a crusader.

But again, it's impossible to know either way, so why suggest otherwise? That's not helping any sort of argument that you could care to make.

can we stop white knighting video games already

but how will video games know I want to have sex with them???

look you can try all you want but call of duty is not going to sleep with you. call of duty just wants your money.

there are quite a few good response videos.

But, but... Call of Duty promised me a solid 6 hour campaign...

It promised...

listen, i feel like you should know this before you get hurt.

call of duty likes to travel a lot.

I just... Call of Duty loves dogs so much. Did you see its new dog?

How can someone who loves dogs that much be a bad person?

@spaceinsomniac: After seeing the video, I guess someone could just ask her if she likes videogames now.

I think her critique were way too shallow to begin with but I lost all respect/interest in her when she called the developer behind Spelunky a misogynist because there is a damsel in distress in the game.

That's a serious accusation against a person you don't even know or have ever met.

@castiel: That never happened.

@milkman: hehe.

This has been kind of argued to death around here, but I think you misunderstood something. She didn't call the developer of Spelunky a misogynist; she included Spelunky as a game that had a negative use of a damsel in distress. The developer promoted her video saying that and even said he appreciated it as something to think about. She told him she really liked Spelunky, and he was glad to hear it. That's all that happened.

There are legitimate things to criticize her about as a critic, but this example isn't one. It was actually a kind of nice, adult exchange.

What I find somewhat pathetic about this whole thing is that if Sarkeesian herself was a fat acne-infested ugly slab of a woman, no one would have taken notice of her in the first place. Which makes a lot of people huge hypocrites -- "I never gave a damn about sexism in my video games, but I do since that pleasant looking lady told me so!"

This one little bit reminded me of the first time I ever thought something was sexist in a video game: Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball. There was a demo of it set up in a Software Etc. and a couple of my friends flipped out over it and thought it was the greatest thing ever. I thought it was nothing more than an excuse to stare at large breasted CG women. To me, that stuff is pure sexism. Stuff like Ivy from Soul Calibur and her ever shrinking outfit and ever larger chest make me uncomfortable. They don't feel like women, they don't even feel like characters. They are just these jiggly bits attached to a wire frame skeleton. I don't understand why people like it. I don't think I ever will. I find it to be disgusting and kind of embarrassing.

That is not sexism that is sexualization.

@darji: Let's not argue semantics. My point is that something is wrong with how women are being portrayed and that I don't like it. I realized right then and there that it was an issue.

I consider these games generally offensive rather than misogynistic. True, they shove jiggly giant boobs (.com) in your face for the heck of it, but that doesn't mean they are truly sexist. Are porn magazines sexist? I don't believe so.

But these are 2 different things. If you are feeling uncomfortable to look at lightly dressed characters is another matter. Especially in Fighting games Males are also heavily sexualized but to make males more attractive to females or homosexual people you need to do it differently than for women.

Sexism would have been if these fighting characters for example are weak helpless characters that need a man to protect them even in a fighting game. You should never tell a women how she has to dress to be presentable because it is her decision and some people like to dress in that manner. in real life as well. For example cosplayers are not dressing up in these costumes because they are forced to but rather they like the character and the outfits.

Anita has got quite the following. She even had this amazing musical song made about her:

Boobs.

Sboob.

fin

Don't bring up things like this on Giantbomb. No one takes video games seriously on this site.

Boobs.

Sboob.

fin