How many JRPG's are true RPG's?

Avatar image for dagas
dagas

3686

Forum Posts

851

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 8

#1  Edited By dagas

I'd like to know if there are any Japanese RPGs other than Persona 3 and 4 that have some sort of real role-playing. This is not meant to be a discussion about what constitutes an RPG because there are as many definitions of an RPG as there are there are players. What I mean by role-play is having choices and be able to choose how your character react. Many WRPG's do this like Mass Effect or Fallout 3, but in most JRPG's you can only read/listen to what people have to say, but you can never choose what to say yourself. Even Persona doesn't have as much choice if you want to play a good guy or evil guy as something like Fable 2 or Dragon Age, but at least it has something. What other JRPG's have that? I can't think of any...

Avatar image for dbz1995
dbz1995

4962

Forum Posts

3989

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 2

#2  Edited By dbz1995

If something says JRPG, I almost always read Turn Based RPG. And I'm almost always right.

Avatar image for dagas
dagas

3686

Forum Posts

851

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 8

#3  Edited By dagas

That may be true, but almost every game is turned base. KotOR and Dragon Age are both turned base. I don't really care if it's real-time or turn based, but an RPG should have role-playing why else call it a Role Playing Game? That doesn't mean I can't enjoy games like Final Fantasy, but I believe FF would be even better if you could choose who you wanted to be instead of always being an emo teen.
 
There has to be some game I've missed no?

Avatar image for crono
Crono

2762

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 23

User Lists: 6

#4  Edited By Crono

RPG = Leveling anymore it seems and not so much about player driven choices, especially in JRPGs which are usually linear experiences.  The "RP" part comes in the form of you playing THEIR role, not the role YOU want to play like in Fallout 3 as you mentioned, or Mass Effect.  If you want choices, western developers seem to be obsessed with "moral" choices in games anymore.

Avatar image for jeust
Jeust

11739

Forum Posts

15085

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 8

User Lists: 15

#5  Edited By Jeust

there are chrono trigger and infinite undiscovery... 
 
I don't recall anymore.

Avatar image for ch13696
ch13696

4760

Forum Posts

204

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 11

#6  Edited By ch13696

Try Ar Tonelico II: Melody of Metafalica. The kind of dialogue you choose during dive sessions (gaining song magic) determines the kind of magic you'll get and if you'll get it. That's as far as I know right now. I'm just in the beginning. But I noticed that there's dialogue choices in the actual game that you can choose that looks like it can unlock other stuff. Not sure yet though.
 
Here's the GiantBomb page: 
http://www.giantbomb.com/ar-tonelico-ii-melody-of-metafalica/61-21541/

Avatar image for tiwi
Tiwi

1422

Forum Posts

1156

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

#7  Edited By Tiwi

I am perplexed you said "true" RPG? what i that supposed to mean? and i usderstand what you're saying in the post, but what is the "True" part of it? and withing your definition i could have found many ADVENTURE GAMES that fall under the PRG category, for example heavy rain or indigo prophecy. An RPG is a very lose genre, there's literally TONS of games that are not considered RPGs but could by definition be an RPG. Take borderlands, are there any Moral choices in that game? or take diablo? you could argue that both those games are RPGs, but you don't, you put them in a sub genre. dungeon crawlers. then again you have the traditional western RPGs, like DnD or dark age of camelot. then you have the Jrpg, and on and on... the point is that there is no "true" RPG, it's a nonexistent concept.

Avatar image for atejas
atejas

3151

Forum Posts

215

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 1

#8  Edited By atejas

Ask yourself how many cRPGs are real RPGs, assuming a 'real' RPG is a pen and paper(because it has the most potential for freedom and character creation).
The answer is pretty disappointing.

Avatar image for 71ranchero
71Ranchero

3421

Forum Posts

113

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 6

#9  Edited By 71Ranchero

I would say that all of them are true rpg's. You play a role in all of them, be it Tidus or a handmade character you create yourself. Even if its completely linear, it still is a story driven character game. 

Avatar image for deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5
deactivated-57b1d7d14d4a5

2945

Forum Posts

950

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 5

User Lists: 3

For video games, an "RPG" is defined by leveling systems. Even the most open-ended RPGs in the industry are linear when compared to the pen&paper games they were derived from.

Avatar image for trophyhunter
trophyhunter

6038

Forum Posts

-1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 5

#11  Edited By trophyhunter

j rpgs are  the only true oness left

Avatar image for dagas
dagas

3686

Forum Posts

851

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 8

#12  Edited By dagas

I'm fully aware that when I say true it's only my definition of RPG. They way I see it if you can't role-play it's not an RPG. Just like it's not an FPS if it's third person and it's not a shooter if you don't shoot. RPG seems to mean anything with XP and leveling. However I didn't mean to start a debate, I just want to know if there are any JRPG's I should play that I have missed.
 
Like I said everyone has their own definition like the poster above who believe it's role-playing because you play a role of someone other than yourself. That's fine, it's just not what I consider an RPG and all I wanted was tips on games that I might like. The reason I tried to define a true RPG for me was so people could understand what kind of game I'm looking for.
 
I've gotten few suggestions. Thank you for that =)

Avatar image for jimbo
Jimbo

10472

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 3

#13  Edited By Jimbo
@dagas said:
" I'd like to know if there are any Japanese RPGs other than Persona 3 and 4 that have some sort of real role-playing. This is not meant to be a discussion about what constitutes an RPG because there are as many definitions of an RPG as there are there are players. What I mean by role-play is having choices and be able to choose how your character react. Many WRPG's do this like Mass Effect or Fallout 3, but in most JRPG's you can only read/listen to what people have to say, but you can never choose what to say yourself. Even Persona doesn't have as much choice if you want to play a good guy or evil guy as something like Fable 2 or Dragon Age, but at least it has something. What other JRPG's have that? I can't think of any... "
I'll rephrase it for you so people don't completely ignore what you said, even though you made your meaning crystal clear:
 
Name some JRPGs where you make choices which impact the storyline.
Avatar image for general_d23
General_D23

1210

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#14  Edited By General_D23

Someone already said Chrono Trigger.... 
 
Uh, the Star Ocean games had your relationships with your party members, but nothing that impacted the story. Same goes for Infinite Undiscovery. 
 
Like someone said above, Ar Tonelico is probably the closest to what your asking. Can't think of anything else....
Avatar image for dagas
dagas

3686

Forum Posts

851

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 8

#15  Edited By dagas
@Jimbo said:

" @dagas said:
I'll rephrase it for you so people don't completely ignore what you said, even though you made your meaning crystal clear:
 
Name some JRPGs where you make choices which impact the storyline. "

Could not have said it better myself ^^
 
About Ar Tonelico. It's impossible to find the first game in Europe (at least in Sweden). Do I have to play the first one to make sense of Ar Tonelico II?
Avatar image for shulinchung
shulinchung

197

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#16  Edited By shulinchung
@Jimbo said:
Name some JRPGs where you make choices which impact the storyline. "

Demon's Souls?
Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

#17  Edited By Hailinel
@Jimbo said:
" @dagas said:
" I'd like to know if there are any Japanese RPGs other than Persona 3 and 4 that have some sort of real role-playing. This is not meant to be a discussion about what constitutes an RPG because there are as many definitions of an RPG as there are there are players. What I mean by role-play is having choices and be able to choose how your character react. Many WRPG's do this like Mass Effect or Fallout 3, but in most JRPG's you can only read/listen to what people have to say, but you can never choose what to say yourself. Even Persona doesn't have as much choice if you want to play a good guy or evil guy as something like Fable 2 or Dragon Age, but at least it has something. What other JRPG's have that? I can't think of any... "
I'll rephrase it for you so people don't completely ignore what you said, even though you made your meaning crystal clear:
 
Name some JRPGs where you make choices which impact the storyline. "
  • Metal Saga
  • SaGa Frontier
  • Persona 4
  • Chrono Cross
  • Shin Megami Tensei:  Devil Survivor
  • Shin Megami Tensei:  Nocturne
 
All off the top of my head.  I'm sure that there are a lot more.
Avatar image for jim_uk
Jim_uk

71

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#18  Edited By Jim_uk

JRPGs feel like interactive novels where you have to play an emo teen with ridiculous hair whether you like it or not, I don't remember much in way of choices in any I've played.

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

#19  Edited By Hailinel
@Jim_uk said:
" JRPGs feel like interactive novels where you have to play an emo teen with ridiculous hair whether you like it or not, I don't remember much in way of choices in any I've played.

"
Wow.  Giant Bomb is just filled with the JRPG haters this morning.
Avatar image for fallen189
Fallen189

5453

Forum Posts

10463

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 4

#20  Edited By Fallen189

It's like a bunch of DND fans are really fighting a bunch of Japanese fans!

Avatar image for jim_uk
Jim_uk

71

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 12

User Lists: 0

#21  Edited By Jim_uk
@Hailinel: I didn't say I hated them, I'm saying they lack any choices. The only thing I hate are the usual emo protagonists, do kids in Japan behave like the leads in these games do? if so they need a good slap.
Avatar image for dan_citi
Dan_CiTi

5598

Forum Posts

308

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#22  Edited By Dan_CiTi
@Jimbo said:
" @dagas said:
" I'd like to know if there are any Japanese RPGs other than Persona 3 and 4 that have some sort of real role-playing. This is not meant to be a discussion about what constitutes an RPG because there are as many definitions of an RPG as there are there are players. What I mean by role-play is having choices and be able to choose how your character react. Many WRPG's do this like Mass Effect or Fallout 3, but in most JRPG's you can only read/listen to what people have to say, but you can never choose what to say yourself. Even Persona doesn't have as much choice if you want to play a good guy or evil guy as something like Fable 2 or Dragon Age, but at least it has something. What other JRPG's have that? I can't think of any... "
I'll rephrase it for you so people don't completely ignore what you said, even though you made your meaning crystal clear:
 
Name some JRPGs where you make choices which impact the storyline. "
Live A Live, Chrono Trigger, SMT: Nocturne. There's plenty. Also Fallout and Mass Effect choices(aside from about 1 from each game) are meaningless.
Avatar image for turambar
Turambar

8283

Forum Posts

114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#23  Edited By Turambar

Nope, "choice" isn't really a concept that JRPGs place a lot of stock in.  Though, as I already said in the other JRPG vs WRPG thread, "choice" is largely hollow, empty, and without weight, so I don't really mind the lack of it.

Avatar image for symphony
Symphony

1933

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 33

User Lists: 0

#24  Edited By Symphony
@dagas said:

" @Jimbo said:

" @dagas said:
I'll rephrase it for you so people don't completely ignore what you said, even though you made your meaning crystal clear:
 
Name some JRPGs where you make choices which impact the storyline. "

Could not have said it better myself ^^  About Ar Tonelico. It's impossible to find the first game in Europe (at least in Sweden). Do I have to play the first one to make sense of Ar Tonelico II? "
Nope, you'll be fine jumping right into the second one. One major character from the first makes a return in the second game, but not knowing about her history won't make much of a difference.
 
(I'm surprised Ar Tonelico got two separate mentions in this thread. I'm impressed and scared at the same time.)
Avatar image for driadon
Driadon

3265

Forum Posts

763

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 14

#25  Edited By Driadon

I think this is the first time I've seen people take the term Role-Playing Game and actually apply what Roleplaying is compared to the argument that all games are Role-Playing Games because you are "Playing a role" by shooting things. In fact, there was an interesting discussion on this on the podcast Active Time Babble if anyone's curious.
 
Anyway, there are some that have that classic Roleplaying definition like many of the Persona games as mentioned. A specific story even might be missed because you decided to practice basketball that day and that can change a few aspects. It's not nearly as grand as Bioware and Black Isle's many efforts, but it's still there.

Avatar image for counterswarmer
CounterSwarmer

15

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By CounterSwarmer

So by your standards, a Play By Post RPG is not a true RPG.And Play By Posts RPGs are more true to TRUE Roleplaying than any Electronic RPG including WRPGs could ever hope to be.

Avatar image for buft
buft

3409

Forum Posts

1787

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 13

User Lists: 4

#27  Edited By buft
@CounterSwarmer said:

So by your standards, a Play By Post RPG is not a true RPG.And Play By Posts RPGs are more true to TRUE Roleplaying than any Electronic RPG including WRPGs could ever hope to be.

you must have played this forum by post, you're a year late! the dungeon collapse around you, unable to breathe you pass out of this world. to Valhalla you go!