Posted by AdventFalls (72 posts) -

So the Sony Press Conference happened. By and large, people seem to be pretty optimistic about the conference and think it went well. The Giant Bomb crew came away from it relatively impressed and said it was good.I respectfully must disagree. Just as their believing it was good is their opinion, I think it was almost a trainwreck - which is mine.

Before I really start going into where I think things went wrong, I should at least start off with some positive notes. Landing Jonathan Blow and his latest game for the PS4 is a pretty nice achievement, and it did look like a pleasing alternative. It's difficult to judge the game based on what little gameplay I saw, but it's a puzzle game from the guy who made Braid and I have faith in that.

The concept of downloading a game off of PSN and being able to play it before it's finished DLing sounds great on paper. The devil might be in the details on how it's done - whether it's streamed to the system or the game is built in such a way that core assets are DL'd first for quick play ala World of Warcraft. But it's still something the Wii U doesn't have and it's probably a first for a console.

But this is where I start to come off of the rails. From a hardware and a game perspective, I think the PS4 isn't necessarily doomed. But it's going to have a very rough landing and this presentation didn't help.

To start I have to go back to the idea of streaming the game. People on Giant Bomb obviously have access to the Internet, and probably have a good connection to enjoy the video content. But there is still a very large segment of (at least the American) population that doesn't hook up their consoles to the Internet. They're going to miss out on some of the key parts of the console because the infrastructure either isn't there in their part of the country, or because their ISP is putting profit over service. Other countries might have an issue with bandwidth caps depending on how much data is required to stream a game.

This is especially a problem given that the PS4 has no backwards compatibility. At all. Officially, Sony said they're reworked the entire architecture of the system to be more developer friendly and this is why it's no longer possible to run legacy games. Even if that's the case, they're not even going to try and half-ass it like Microsoft did for the 360. The move might've been telegraphed earlier in the PS3 lifespan with PS2 discs no longer being read in later versions of the console, but it's still a sorely missing feature after the PS3 launched with such a staggering back-catalog and after the Wii U still has BC for its own predecessor. At this point, at least saying 'we can try to work something out' would've been nice even if it would've taken a long time to do.

Then there's the games. I can understand that Sony wants to reserve some firepower for E3, but this is their console announcement conference. I applaud Sony's decision to put some actual games on the line here. They need something to catch people's attention, and usually a good way to do that is a new IP.

But a new Killzone? People still care about Killzone? I still remember the controversy over the PS3 and Killzone 2, and they bring it back for the PS4 announcement? The gameplay didn't look much different than what's come before, and even the GB crew admitted it was one of their least favorite demos. And this is what they led off with. It's not even a new IP, even if it looks like they might be taking the game in a new direction.

Drive Club just reminded me of Gran Turismo. Maybe it'll be a good racing game. But all I remember about Drive Club was 'this presenter is fetishistic about his cars' and 'this is Gran Turismo'. Maybe that gets some people going, but I'll admit it's not me.

Another Infamous game! I can at least appreciate that the Infamous games are good ones, even if they aren't my taste. New protagonist, at least they aren't advertising Cole after what happened in 2. But the whole storyline they hinted at. The setting. I kept getting flashes of Watch Dogs, and I don't think Infamous came off looking good from that comparison. And again, this is not a new IP.

Deep Down, Capcom's announced game. From what little I could see, it reminded me of Dark Souls in its gameplay. It also looks a lot like Dragon's Dogma, which I heard was an alright game. I'll wait to see more of this one before I judge it.

I'm convinced Square Enix trolled the entire gaming community today. They don't even show a *new* tech demo, and then they say 'we're working on a new Final Fantasy, see you at E3'? Honestly, this was a low-light of the conference for me. SE should have waited until E3, shown up, dropped the new Final Fantasy on us, go 'PS4, bitches', drop the mic, and get hype.

Speaking of things that had no real business being at the Sony conference, Watch Dogs! It's sad when Watch Dogs is the best game at the conference. This was the best game at E3, too. But this is already confirmed to be a multi-platform game. It's even confirmed for the Wii U! So what is it doing here?

If there was any company that came out of this looking worse than Square Enix, it's Blizzard. Blizzard was the one moment where I gasped and went 'oh shit, this is going to be the PS4's killer app'. All this build up, and they reveal a port of Diablo 3? Diablo 3?! You show up at Sony's big event to talk about a port of a PC game that was already kind of divisive? Even if it means we might see more ease at porting, you're still talking about Diablo 3.

Finally, Destiny. I kind of expected Sony to parade around Bungie as a middle finger to Microsoft, even if the game is in the same boat as Watch Dogs in terms of 'why are we here this game is multi-platform'. What I saw was pretty nice, and I do admit I'm a little interested to hear about what exclusive DLC the PS4 version might get. Especially on how long the exclusivity contract lasts.

So obviously, I wasn't very impressed. While the guys on the stage were certainly passionate, what they were talking about wasn't much to get passionate about. I think that if they wanted to put Nintendo away for the generation, they needed to start the hype now and let E3 serve as a part two to the hype train. As it is, I didn't see anything that screams 'buy a PS4 on day 1'. There weren't any killer app games, and the functionality of the PS4 - while intriguing - aren't likely to be things that move systems to people who don't pay attention to games like most of us do. There certainly wasn't any talk of a price, which might have been for the best.

Like I said before, I think the PS4 is in for a rough landing. By the time they release, Nintendo will have had time to try and re-invigorate themselves. They managed to give the 3DS a second wind, and they could do just the same before the PS4 arrives. And the PS4 still has to contend with Microsoft's code-name 'Durango', which will inevitably be announce in the near future.

EDIT: Wow, big response. I'm happy that the post has engendered some amount of discussion.

You guys have made a fairly decent counter-argument on one of my points, and I'll acknowledge it. Backwards compatibility isn't an absolute must. I was approaching it from the standpoint that all of the consoles from the previous generation allowed BC from the GCN/PS2/XBox generation in some capacity, and seeing that go away. It's something that was standard before that generation, and the changed architecture of the PS4 to allow greater ease of development probably meant that it was a pipe dream to expect even PS3 BC.

I just think it would have been a nice thing to have.

#1 Posted by JZ (2125 posts) -

You must have soooo much fun in life

#2 Posted by TrafalgarLaw (1021 posts) -

Blog it. No really, blog it.

#3 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

I did laugh when Diablo 3 was announced. That game is hot garbage, or rather it was on release. I haven't gone back since the 1000 patches.

#4 Edited by GrantHeaslip (1500 posts) -

I don’t think many people are claiming today’s announcements were flawless. I’ve got a pretty good connection (pretty much the best non-fibre consumer connection you can get in Canada), and the streaming and auto-downloading stuff has me very skeptical. The exclusives they’ve shown so far, besides Knack, don’t particularly interest me. The Blizzard and Destiny stuff did nothing for me. You’re not wrong that a lot of today’s stuff was underwhelming. I probably won’t own a PS4 (or any next-gen system) until 2015, and I don’t think I’ll be missing out on anything huge in the interim.

People are just happy to see Sony making the right broad moves. They seem to have learned a lot from the early PS3 days, and I’m in spirit on board with their dedication to more artistic games. It’s an easy-to-develop-for console, they’re doing interoperability right, and they’re marketing it well. Even if the streaming stuff might be a hit-and-miss now, it’s the right long-term move — this console will still be on the market in 2020, and the back-end service stuff is console-independent. There’s a lot of neat stuff they could do with it, and it’s not something that’s easily copied by competitors.

#5 Posted by BoFooQ (648 posts) -

hello duder, I have to disagree with some of your points.

I want to start with backwards compatibility, I don't understand why people have such a problem/need for this. Let me ask you a question if/when you buy a ps4 do you plan on throwing your ps3 out a window? I still have my ps2 and a few games, when I want to play these games I get them out along with my ps2(they sit next to each other in closet) and hook it up. If rumors are true and new xbox has bluray drive than I would bet it isn't BC either. As for nintendo, I think they are doing a fine job of killing themselves. If the wiiU is BC that's great, I'm never going to buy one. I have a wii and liked it for awhile(I feel I got my money out of it) and if people want to play some wii sports I'll get it out of the closet. What do you think there where more of: games trailers today or wiiU releases in the last 3 months?

As for the games: I agree with you on most, I never gave a shit about killzone and I don't care about new one, it looked like killzone. As for the driving game, its a driving game, once again its not my cup of tee. It looked nice, but so does gran turismo now and I have a tough time telling the differance.

I thought blizzard was a big thing though, If you are done with diablo 3 than you have longer to wait. The way I see it is, you get big AAA title never before on consoles for day 1 release. You get to work on cross platform play with PC and ps4. Most importantly you are with them for the next game, if in 2-3 blizzard's next game comes out and its on ps4 that's a huge win. Its a win-win, you help more copies of diablo 3 when its over a year old and blizzard helps sell ps4 with promise of next game(which we see a trailer for at E3).

All and all I thought it was a good show today. I was a sony fan before and I was very pleased with what I saw. The biggest negitive I saw was the PS eye that seemed required. The next big question is when does microsoft come and say something.

#6 Posted by AdventFalls (72 posts) -

@grantheaslip: I agree in the long-term it is for the best they swap the architecture, but ditching the BC is a pretty brutal short-term consequence after how they launched the PS2 and the PS3. They'll probably ride that out, but that's something that'll delay my purchase for a while.

I can get the enthusiasm for streaming and the like, but there needs to be a better infrastructure for the Internet to get mass adoption - that's not something Sony has direct control over.

#7 Posted by triple07 (1196 posts) -

I'll agree with you on games since the only one that looked interesting to me was Deep Down and I guess Watch Dogs but I already thought that looked neat. Overall though I think the conference was really good and got me excited for a Playstation console which hasn't happened since the PS2.

I think its way too early to say whether or not they are going to have a hard time at launch since we don't even know the price yet which in my mind is the main sticking point for this console.

#8 Edited by truckington (54 posts) -

Backwards compatibility was a contributing factor to the PS3's terrible launch. I know people apparently love it, but it is a nightmare to implement on modern systems. There are basically only two choices for it: include the actual full hardware of the previous generation or emulate it.

The first is part of the reason the PS3 launch price was so high, as they included a real PS2 in every system for backwards compatibility. It was also the very first feature they cut from the system when they need to lower the price of the PS3. Hardware has only gotten more complicated over time too. Including a ps3 inside the ps4 would massively increase the physical size of the console, the complexity of the hardware, the manufacturing costs, the thermal design, everything. No one wants to cripple the life of the entire console so you can play ps3 game for the first few months then never care about backwards compatibility again (which seems to be the case for most people). And the second method is just plain impossible. Software emulation is extremely taxing. Generally requiring orders of magnitudes more raw power than the target system to even come close to properly emulate.

There is no magical "well it should have it" option. You either massively increase the price and complexity of the PS4 or leave it out. I'm very glad they opted to leave it out.

#9 Posted by LiquidPrince (15833 posts) -

What you're complaining about is dumb... Just because a portion of the potential user base may not be able to access some of the features of the console doesn't mean that it shouldn't exist or that it is somehow a negative for the PS4. Sure some people in the world may have data caps, but what is Sony supposed to do about that? When and if that country does end up getting a better infrastructure in place, then those people can enjoy more features on their new console. But the fact that it exists and some people can't use it is a stupid complaint.

#10 Edited by TruthTellah (8395 posts) -

Even people who have limited access to quality Internet will find themselves with a next gen system with high quality graphics and access to some of the biggest games of the next few years. I think it may still be rather worth it for the price. Just depends on the eventual price and what it has to compete with.

Online
#11 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1500 posts) -

@adventfalls said:

@grantheaslip: I agree in the long-term it is for the best they swap the architecture, but ditching the BC is a pretty brutal short-term consequence after how they launched the PS2 and the PS3. They'll probably ride that out, but that's something that'll delay my purchase for a while.

I can get the enthusiasm for streaming and the like, but there needs to be a better infrastructure for the Internet to get mass adoption - that's not something Sony has direct control over.

But it will happen eventually, and Sony will have a big head start. Even if people aren’t able to live stream out (good upstream is way more rare), my understanding was that Gaikai worked surprisingly well on a 5 megabit connection, which is pretty much the norm. Bandwidth is a concern, but that’s probably going to change much sooner.

I’m very skeptical about the latency and video compression, but I’m sure we’ll get there someday. By the PS5 timeframe, we might be at a point at which flawless streaming is possible.

The PS4 was never going to have backward compatibility unless they crammed a PS3 in there, and that would be cost-prohibitive. I assume the Xbox 3 will have the same problem.

#12 Edited by AdventFalls (72 posts) -

@truckington: Again, I get that BC is extremely difficult. Especially when the PS3 was built around the Cell which was notoriously hard to build for. Like I said earlier, it's in the best interest of the console's long term health that they redo the architecture (and thus sacrifice BC). But I still think that BC is a good way of having people use your new console in the first few months where there isn't a lot going on, and the streaming method Sony says they'll probably do could have its own set of issues.

But I agree. BC isn't an essential thing. But it's a very nice thing to use your new console for during those first few months when there's no games out.

#13 Posted by Viking_Funeral (1725 posts) -

I missed this live, but it seems like a lot of the excitement is just people finally getting excited for 8th gen consoles, and this is their first bite of it. Sony was smart in announcing first, as it gives them that little bonus of them being the first glimpse at the 8th gen.

Personally, as a PC gamer, I'm excited at what this will do for PC games, as it seems like porting them over will be easier. Not that porting is ever great, but like anyone else on any other system, I'd rather have access to as many games as possible.

The sharing feature seems silly, and I don't see what the hubbub is about. But I also don't see why some people really like Twitter, so what do I know? I guess it could be cool in the hands of "video game celebrities" (a term I use loosely) like the Giant Bomb Staff.

Overall --- meh, with a hint of "oooh, new & shiny."

#14 Posted by AdventFalls (72 posts) -

@grantheaslip: I wish I shared your optimism for the streaming, but I think the devil will be in the details. I'm concerned anyone with a bandwidth cap could get bent over a barrel on this. Maybe an increased focus on Internet features gets people to start pressuring companies to increase Internet speeds, but the only company interested in spreading higher speed Internet right now seems to be Google. I could be wrong in 7 years of course.

#15 Posted by me3639 (1705 posts) -

Sorry if you placed all your bets on a Wii U. I would offer this free advice, dont gamble.

#16 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

Whining about backwards compatibility has always been stupid. I don't buy a PS4 to play my fucking PS3 games. If you want to do that, you know where to go.

#17 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1500 posts) -

@grantheaslip: I wish I shared your optimism for the streaming, but I think the devil will be in the details. I'm concerned anyone with a bandwidth cap could get bent over a barrel on this. Maybe an increased focus on Internet features gets people to start pressuring companies to increase Internet speeds, but the only company interested in spreading higher speed Internet right now seems to be Google. I could be wrong in 7 years of course.

Yeah, they’d do good to have bandwidth monitoring, or at least some unmissable “hey, be careful!” warnings.

Either way, I think we’re worrying way too much about a pretty minor and avoidable feature. It’s not like they’re shipping a little streaming box and selling everyone on streaming everything. Considering how huge Twitch.tv is, there’s clearly a market and level of infrastructure necessary for this to be useful to some. It couldn’t hurt for them to make it easy for people to livestream and share footage, which should drive interest (or at least awareness) of the system.

#18 Edited by WasabiCurry (419 posts) -

I laughed at the Diablo III coming to the PS4.

Honestly, I am in this weird limbo. I am so so happy that new consoles are finally being announced since PC will get the push they deserve. Not only that, but the PS4 will use a x86 chipset. Meaning it should be easier to port quality titles to the PC. Does that make me want a PS4? Not in the slightest! Unless Sony has some great titles that will literally be as awesome as Ni No Kuni or Persona 5, I will not be buying one. I love JRPG's, where is the love! T^T Literally, make Persona 5 for the PS4 and I will gladly buy one!

All in all, I believe it is a great time for both console and PC owners.

#19 Posted by Grimluck343 (1146 posts) -

Backwards compatibility with the PS3 must be a nightmare with that cell processor.

#20 Posted by PandaBear (1295 posts) -

I bet you're a real hit at parties...

#21 Edited by FFFFFFF (75 posts) -

BC from SD to HD was a bigger deal. Those games looked like trash on my new HDTV and I didn't want to keep that console hooked up. A PS2 upscaler in the PS3 was a really nice touch. But now, if you want to play a PS3 game it's going to look the same on either box so what benefit do you get other than convenience? It's too bad. But that's all it is.

You say yourself WoW allows for downloading and playing at the same time, so it's obviously realistic. I don't know where doubt or cynicism about playing and installing at the same time comes from.

Most of this reads like you wanted to be negative about it, so that's what you saw. You have keep in mind that most people were expecting maybe a game. Maybe two games. A lot of teasing and BS for an hour. But Sony just came out and said "Playstation 4" within 5 minutes and showed games and features for 2 hours. It's easy to see how people are positive about that from my view.

I'm with you on Square though. I don't know what they showed up for.

#23 Posted by prestonhedges (1965 posts) -

Log on to Wi-Fi, spend a few seconds downloading a PS1 emulator and the ISO of the game you want to play, job done. I think it's pretty safe to say, if you don't have internet, Sony and Microsoft have no interest in you. They haven't for a while.

#24 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4307 posts) -

Oh look, an asshole posted the first reply! We're off to a wonderful start. I personally like how they showed off all of the multiplatform games. I feel like Sony learned from the PS3 and that theyre putting a bit more effort into making the system developer friendly for multiplats. I mean sure, there wasnt a single game that would be a "system seller" but I think the market has changed where exclusives arent as important as they used to be. And I think a game like Uncharted 2 will come later on in the cycle kinda like, well um, Uncharted 2. That post was an interesting read though.

#25 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5124 posts) -

It's Video Games. I'm fucking excited for more of them. This could be the new invigoration to our beloved hobby that we've been waiting for. Sure, some of the new features they showed are still questionable as to how they'll work when implemented. I'm just glad they showed the system will have lots of support by developers. Some of the games that we're shown are still up in the air, as to how they'll actually turn out, but I'm excited as to what the possibilities are for the future. Was every game that came out within the launch window for past games mind blowing? No, but they marked what the system's was capable of. They were there to demo the system capabilities. Everything revealed may not be the pinnacle of what we want out of our gaming experiences, but imagine what will be released in the next five years. Probably some pretty cool shit. Wait till we see the coming generations Mass effect or Skyrim style games. I think this is the most exciting time for us as gamers.

#26 Posted by kre8havoc (173 posts) -

So basically literally everything Sony did was the worst ever and is on fire.

#27 Posted by Enigma777 (6057 posts) -

It sounds like you work for Nintendo. If Sony did one thing well tonight, it was to show how decidedly last gen the Wii U looks by comparison.

#28 Posted by MHumphreys89 (709 posts) -

Why are people getting so worked-up over someone's blog?

#29 Posted by TurboMan (7339 posts) -

Lack of new IPs?

  • Knack looks really cool. It definitely looks like a throwback art style from the PS1 days (Ape Escape especially), and it looks gorgeous. Not real sure about what that game is just yet though.
  • There's a new car game from the Motorstorm guys. I'm sure it will look and sound great, and the cars will smash really nice. The first two Motorstorm games were really fun to play, so it'll be interesting to see what they can do with a less-arcadey racing game.
  • Media Molecule looks like they're cooking up something really cool. The ability to sculpt stuff and put it directly into a "scene" is starting to sound like they're just making LittleBigPlanet 64 (That's what the game should be called.)
  • They brought out Jonathon Blow to show off The Witness and to say the words "Debut on PS4"
  • Ubisoft showed a new IP
  • Bungie showed a new IP
  • Capcom showed a new IP

That's three new 1st party IP's (with perhaps more to come at E3). Can you show me any other press conference that has that many?

#30 Posted by Tarsier (1056 posts) -

yea it was pretty depressing. the future of gaming technology is being stifled by business men who think facebook and twitter integration is one of the most important things, that 'connectivity' is the key to 'winning' the next gen, that they need to bring the vita back to life and get it in peoples hands as if its the next ipad or iphone..
90% of the conference was directed the wrong way. it wasnt for developers or gamers, it was for corporations like activison, EA, and things like facebook.
there was no innovation that would bring in the real future that was needed after this long and stagnant console cycle. and we are in for another 7+ years of technology being at a hold because of the slow pace of consoles and the constant attempts to get gamers to buy the same thing because of its next gimmick of social media integration or wibby wave wand or what ever.
only thing that moderately impressed me were the visuals of the tech demos. and its a positive that it wasnt a wii U like touch screen tablet gimmick. but hey, i guess thats what the vita is for right.
anyways. i was very hopeful for the future of gaming, but at this point not so much. sony is still going in the wrong direction, nothing has changed. there will be a few one off masterpieces like journey in the console life span, but other than that it will be all about 'adults' and 'mature games' that reek of the stench of business men, which sony seems to feel is their market, even if they dont exclusively say it.
please gabe. bring gaming to the next level. steam box can redeem us.

#31 Posted by wemibelec90 (1493 posts) -
@bofooq said:

I want to start with backwards compatibility, I don't understand why people have such a problem/need for this. Let me ask you a question if/when you buy a ps4 do you plan on throwing your ps3 out a window? I still have my ps2 and a few games, when I want to play these games I get them out along with my ps2(they sit next to each other in closet) and hook it up. If rumors are true and new xbox has bluray drive than I would bet it isn't BC either. As for nintendo, I think they are doing a fine job of killing themselves. If the wiiU is BC that's great, I'm never going to buy one. I have a wii and liked it for awhile(I feel I got my money out of it) and if people want to play some wii sports I'll get it out of the closet. What do you think there where more of: games trailers today or wiiU releases in the last 3 months?

This is the thing that always hangs me up on people arguing so hard for backwards compatibility. Is it really that hard to just hook up an old console if you want to play an older game? I still have a PS2 hooked up to my television, for crying out loud. It would be nice to have, sure, but is in no way a requirement for a new console.

As for your argument about the infrastructure being unavailable to a large segment of the audience @adventfalls:, someone has to blink on this issue. Obviously, the numbers are good enough that Sony decided to push the online features more heavily this generation. Plenty of people do play games on consoles not constantly connected to the Internet, but that number shrinks by the year. I think Sony is smartly playing the long-term game and betting on the fact that these features will be a huge selling point of the Playstation 4. Of course, I don't know if it will pay off for them, but I appreciate their attempt, at the least.

#32 Posted by tread311 (352 posts) -

I think the most important thing they showed was not the game footage but the fact that they seem to really be trying to make using your console a better experience. Instant play, a better controller, suspending games, and a better UI will all be big in making a way better experience.

#33 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@adventfalls:

I disagree. If you cannot be connected, you don't care about the online features you miss out on, or at least you'll care first about your ISP being shit to begin with. In the end it comes down to the games, and if there's a significant improvement in that department. Regardless of whether you are capable of being online or not, these boxes will play software most of us haven't dared to dream of yet.

Despite how the new Killzone is just another shooter, it was the demo that showed the most clearly, and the most believably, how much better games will look and play. Crisp and clean and smooth, to an extent that was as of yet impossible. When Vinny says, he can imagine that running on a high end PC, he's talking of a high end 3500$ dual-GPU setup, and he's talking in hypotheticals, because nobody would make such games for just that market segment.

With the introduction of the Playstation 4 to the mass market, such games will get made! That's what matters most to the core audience. And given the 6-10 year lifecycle of the PS4, many of your infrastructre-related concerns will be addressed organically anyways.

Nobody will give two fucks about backwards compatibility in the face of the next generation of software. A vocal minority maybe, and they'll be quiet as soon as they'll be allowed to flatrate the enitre Playstation back-catalogue for a nominal monthly fee.

@sooty said:

I did laugh when Diablo 3 was announced. That game is hot garbage, or rather it was on release. I haven't gone back since the 1000 patches.

Diablo 3 with direct controls will be a very different game. A much more fun game.

#34 Posted by Superfriend (1519 posts) -

I don´t know about most of what you posted, duder.. while it was not a perfect showing for them, I came away relatively excited for a lot of games.

Not to mention the crazy Gaikai stuff and the promises of a better UI. What they did show was really impressive, the only thing that worries me is that a lot of these games seem to be pretty early in development and might not make it in time for launch.

You kinda come across as somebody who has lost a lot of enthusiasm for games. That´s fine. Stick to the PC and indie games and wait for consoles to align more to your tastes in their second year.

#35 Edited by Ares42 (2552 posts) -

I think you're miscontruding people being pleasantly suprised with people thinking the console will be the best thing ever. Most people went in with pretty mild expectations, even possibly expecting a fiasco. The fact that the presentation wasn't aggresively bad is already a plus considering what we've seen from E3 the last few years. Noone's saying they came out of it super-stoked and wants the console right now, they're just saying this was much better than what they feared.

Should we expect more ? possibly... but the days of being completely shocked and awed by a new console or game is long gone. We have internet now, and a much bigger media focus, which leads to more transparency. It's just not possible to take that major step anymore in todays market.

Online
#36 Edited by Winternet (8000 posts) -

From the 9 games they showed, only 3 were from an already franchise (I'm not counting Media Molecule thingy). So, what are you complaining about really?

#37 Posted by Mirado (983 posts) -

I disagree with practically all of your negative points.

To start I have to go back to the idea of streaming the game. People on Giant Bomb obviously have access to the Internet, and probably have a good connection to enjoy the video content. But there is still a very large segment of (at least the American) population that doesn't hook up their consoles to the Internet. They're going to miss out on some of the key parts of the console because the infrastructure either isn't there in their part of the country, or because their ISP is putting profit over service. Other countries might have an issue with bandwidth caps depending on how much data is required to stream a game.

I do not understand why having a shitty ISP will affect Sony any more than Microsoft, or even Nintendo. All of those consoles feature heavy online interaction (yeah, even the WiiU) including but not limited to Netflix integration, video sharing and online multiplayer. Is Sony supposed to downplay their streaming service because some people can't use it? Doesn't it make more sense to tout what you've got? If you can't use it, you can't use it. It isn't the main selling point. It's a value add. If you don't have the connection to handle it, you probably don't care about using it.

This is especially a problem given that the PS4 has no backwards compatibility. At all. Officially, Sony said they're reworked the entire architecture of the system to be more developer friendly and this is why it's no longer possible to run legacy games. Even if that's the case, they're not even going to try and half-ass it like Microsoft did for the 360. The move might've been telegraphed earlier in the PS3 lifespan with PS2 discs no longer being read in later versions of the console, but it's still a sorely missing feature after the PS3 launched with such a staggering back-catalog and after the Wii U still has BC for its own predecessor. At this point, at least saying 'we can try to work something out' would've been nice even if it would've taken a long time to do.

What happened, did you chuck your PS3 out a window? Making backwards compatibility a selling point has always been a kind of lunacy to me; people who wanted to play those older games have the systems to do so, and those who haven't in the past eight years probably don't want to. The idea that they could include the Cell architecture in the PS4 and avoid skyrocketing the (possibly too high already) price is not going to happen, and there's no way they can emulate it in software without it running like garbage. Streaming is the only option, so it's nice to have even that.

Plus, Ryan said it best: I can count the amount of PS3 games I'd want to revisit on one hand. The PS3 doesn't even have a tenth of the PS2's catalog, and that's coming from a guy who likes the PS3 the most out of this generation of consoles.

Your points on the games are all personal preference, subjective, unanswerable or silly (What's Watch Dogs doing here? I don't know, perhaps giving you an idea of what it will look like on the PS4?), so I'll skip those. My only retort is: wait for E3. If they've got the muscle to pull this off, it'll be shown there. That's the stage that attracts the most attention, so if they haven't grabbed you by then, they probably never will before the launch.


So obviously, I wasn't very impressed. While the guys on the stage were certainly passionate, what they were talking about wasn't much to get passionate about. I think that if they wanted to put Nintendo away for the generation, they needed to start the hype now and let E3 serve as a part two to the hype train. As it is, I didn't see anything that screams 'buy a PS4 on day 1'. There weren't any killer app games, and the functionality of the PS4 - while intriguing - aren't likely to be things that move systems to people who don't pay attention to games like most of us do. There certainly wasn't any talk of a price, which might have been for the best.

Like I said before, I think the PS4 is in for a rough landing. By the time they release, Nintendo will have had time to try and re-invigorate themselves. They managed to give the 3DS a second wind, and they could do just the same before the PS4 arrives. And the PS4 still has to contend with Microsoft's code-name 'Durango', which will inevitably be announce in the near future.

Nintendo isn't playing the same ball game anymore. Sure, they've made a better push towards parity than they did with the Wii, but I'm getting a real Dreamcast vibe out of the WiiU. They struck early but not hard, and I think they'll end up like the Wii did; low 3rd party support, strong first party sales. I'm skeptical that they'll hit the Wii levels of success again, but I do wish them all the best. They're still my favorite.

However, Sony is pointing their guns right at Microsoft. Sure, the remote play is a WiiU shot, but that's more about making the Vita feel less useless than the crux of the PS4's success. As Ryan said, they took the WiiU's feature and made it a bullet point. Job done. But fixing their online bullshit, bringing out Bungie, going hard into grabbing indie developers, and jacking the specs up? That's all meant to sink Microsoft's battleship before it even sails out of port. Will they be successful? How will MS respond? I don't know. If they can't measure up, I feel safe going with Sony this time around, right at launch, which I didn't this time around.

All I know is, it's going to be a blood bath.

#38 Posted by granderojo (1778 posts) -

Did the SNES emulate the NES? Did the Dreamcast emulate the Genesis? Backwards compatibility was a gimmick when Sony implemented it before and it's a gimmick now. The people who still have a back catalog worth of games to play on a prior generation console more than likely also own that prior console. The people that don't are a niche. You people that are in that niche, hey guess what, you're a niche. People don't make hardware to sell to crazy people. If you want to play those old games go buy an old console.

I have no interest in the PS4 because I game on the PC now but this entire reveal was handled about as well as anyone should hope. Really the best hardware reveal I can remember for a console since maybe the Dreamcast? Also very similar just in how ambitious it all seems, great stuff. I'm excited.

#39 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7613 posts) -

@turboman said:

That's three new 1st party IP's (with perhaps more to come at E3). Can you show me any other press conference that has that many?

Microsoft apparently have 4 to show. We'll see what happens, but that is from the same leaks that has had most of the other information pretty much bang on. Let's just hope they aren't all Kinect games.

Lack of new IP's definitely seems like an odd complaint though, there was plenty on show, even if the bulk was third party stuff that likely won't be exclusive. I'll admit I was probably more excited for another inFamous than anything else though.

Lack of backwards compatability really shouldn't be a big issue either. The only thing I really have to complain about were the social features and even then it's only because I happen to not care about them at all. It was a pretty strong showing and I'll be surprised if MS can pull off anything even half as impressive.

#40 Posted by servothx (25 posts) -

@jz said:

You must have soooo much fun in life

#41 Posted by Binman88 (3684 posts) -

I don't understand the streaming argument. People have bandwidth caps, so they might not be able to utilise a certain feature, therefore, we shouldn't have that feature? That's crazy talk, and that's assuming bandwidth caps/speeds aren't liable to change in the future, which they absolutely are. Even if they weren't, it's things like this that will push consumers to seek out services that meet their needs, and ultimately push the market and the companies they ditch towards those needs in order to stay competitive. Bandwidth caps aren't going to change for some companies unless they see a need to do so. Customers leaving their service in droves to take advantage of something like the PS4's streaming is the type of thing that will force them to change. Following your advice would ensure that things will just stay the same.

#42 Posted by DaMisterChief (628 posts) -

BUT ORGASMIC CARS DUDE

#43 Edited by thatdutchguy (1267 posts) -

Dude.... it's just videogames, you don't have to write a book about a press event.

are you a xbox/pc fanboy or something ?

#44 Edited by Marcsman (3090 posts) -

@mcghee said:

Whining about backwards compatibility has always been stupid. I don't buy a PS4 to play my fucking PS3 games. If you want to do that, you know where to go.

I totally agree.

#45 Edited by EpicSteve (6470 posts) -

Why do people give a shit about backwards compatibility!? I want a new system because I'm done with the old stuff. As for streaming games, it sucks if it doesn't work for some people. But that's like saying Netflix sucks because everyone doesn't have access to it.

#46 Posted by project343 (2809 posts) -

  1. whether it's streamed to the system or the game is built in such a way that core assets are DL'd first for quick play ala World of Warcraft
  2. They're going to miss out on some of the key parts of the console because the infrastructure either isn't there in their part of the country
  3. Sony said they're reworked the entire architecture of the system to be more developer friendly and this is why it's no longer possible to run legacy games
  4. People still care about Killzone?
  5. Watch Dogs! It's sad when Watch Dogs is the best game at the conference. This was the best game at E3, too. But this is already confirmed to be a multi-platform game. It's even confirmed for the Wii U! So what is it doing here?
  6. Diablo 3? Diablo 3?! You show up at Sony's big event to talk about a port of a PC game that was already kind of divisive?
  7. So obviously, I wasn't very impressed. While the guys on the stage were certainly passionate, what they were talking about wasn't much to get passionate about.

  1. Both. They stated both. You will be able to demo a game via streaming, and you can do the core asset thing if you purchase the game.
  2. We're continuing to move toward an internet-embracing culture. This machine is likely designed to be relevant 7 years down the line. You can't fault a company for trying to make future-proof technology, especially when the majority of Nintendo's (and likely Microsoft's) featureset revolves around online connectivity as well.
  3. Better new games and more multiplatform releases > ability to play older games
  4. Killzone 2 and 3 are two of the biggest games on the PS3
  5. Exclusivity is a thing of the past. Developers can't afford to remain console-exclusive anymore.
  6. The bigger news is that Blizzard is making their first console game in 13 years, likely due to the financial pressuring of Activision. I imagine that this is not the last of this effort, and we may see Titan release on next-gen consoles.
  7. Name me a better press conference for this past generation. There is none. This machine looks leagues better than anything Nintendo has for us (you know, the bricking, last-gen tech WiiU with only a select few interesting games worth playing). And despite being a big Microsoft fan for the early portions of the Xbox 360's release, I expect Microsoft to fall on its face given their tonal fuck-ups over the past 3-4 years.
#47 Posted by Rafaelfc (1311 posts) -

It's very funny that people think the videogame companies should cater to "folks who don't plug in their consoles" duder, it's 2013, EVERYone and their mom is on the internet and facebook, the outliers don't matter anymore, simple as that.

Also, I couldn't care less about backwards compatibility, they will release bigger and better versions of the old games in some form or another.

And expecting the "Killer App" to be revealed at a press conference in february and not at E3 is just dumb.

#48 Posted by AdventFalls (72 posts) -

@project343 said:

@adventfalls said:
  1. whether it's streamed to the system or the game is built in such a way that core assets are DL'd first for quick play ala World of Warcraft
  2. They're going to miss out on some of the key parts of the console because the infrastructure either isn't there in their part of the country
  3. Sony said they're reworked the entire architecture of the system to be more developer friendly and this is why it's no longer possible to run legacy games
  4. People still care about Killzone?
  5. Watch Dogs! It's sad when Watch Dogs is the best game at the conference. This was the best game at E3, too. But this is already confirmed to be a multi-platform game. It's even confirmed for the Wii U! So what is it doing here?
  6. Diablo 3? Diablo 3?! You show up at Sony's big event to talk about a port of a PC game that was already kind of divisive?
  7. So obviously, I wasn't very impressed. While the guys on the stage were certainly passionate, what they were talking about wasn't much to get passionate about.

  1. Both. They stated both. You will be able to demo a game via streaming, and you can do the core asset thing if you purchase the game.
  2. We're continuing to move toward an internet-embracing culture. This machine is likely designed to be relevant 7 years down the line. You can't fault a company for trying to make future-proof technology, especially when the majority of Nintendo's (and likely Microsoft's) featureset revolves around online connectivity as well.
  3. Better new games and more multiplatform releases > ability to play older games
  4. Killzone 2 and 3 are two of the biggest games on the PS3
  5. Exclusivity is a thing of the past. Developers can't afford to remain console-exclusive anymore.
  6. The bigger news is that Blizzard is making their first console game in 13 years, likely due to the financial pressuring of Activision. I imagine that this is not the last of this effort, and we may see Titan release on next-gen consoles.
  7. Name me a better press conference for this past generation. There is none. This machine looks leagues better than anything Nintendo has for us (you know, the bricking, last-gen tech WiiU with only a select few interesting games worth playing). And despite being a big Microsoft fan for the early portions of the Xbox 360's release, I expect Microsoft to fall on its face given their tonal fuck-ups over the past 3-4 years.

>1: Yeah, I admit I was getting a drink during the early part of the conference. So I did miss that crucial detail thanks for filling me in.

>2: Future-proofing is well and good, but I'm still concerned about how quickly adoption is going to happen. I think I remember an article from 2010 saying that the PS3 was the most-connected console to the Internet, but a 2012 article saying that only 45% of this generation was 'constantly connected'. We'll see how it goes.

>3: Point conceded, I edited the original post.

>4: Every time I hear about Killzone being big, I keep remembering how the original Killzone was supposed to be a 'Halo killer' (which wasn't what it was sold as if I remember) and Killzone 2's own issues with being prerendered.

>5: I know we've moved towards a console era where exclusivity is the exception to the rule. But I can't help but think they'd have been better served showing Watch Dogs at E3.

>6: That message got lost in the immediate 'Diablo 3, you're wasting my time' reaction. If they bring something besides Diablo 3, it could be worth it.

>7: In terms of console announcements? No, they're all pretty dry and uninspiring. I'm reserving judgement on the Wii U since it has a couple months to turn things around. But I expect Microsoft's to be even worse than this.

#49 Posted by 49th (2668 posts) -

Some people don't have their console hooked up to the internet so including online features is bad.