I hate this digital distribution crap

Sure I guess it has its ups, but its downs are so down its not worth it to me. I really like having the game on disc because you can always install the game faster, and your not dependent on an internet connection to install (fuck DRM >_>). You don't get a manual. You have nothing physical to show for it. Oh, and it still costs you full price unless you sit around waiting for the game you want to go on sale.

It really seems like no one noticed the fact that you can either pay $60 for a manual (they used to be worth it back in the day, they weren't always 3 pages long) a DVD/CD(s) so you can install it where ever when ever and usually a map or poster or some other goodies, or flip side $60 for the ability to install it........

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

/totallymisspointofpost

Good game manuals were dead / dying long before digital distribution became a thing. Also there are games that required an internet connection if you bought a physical copy, Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones was a definitely a case of this. And lets not forget all the properly heinous DRM that was being included on physical media releases before internet activation became widespread.

Get with the times grandpa. With Steam making such a good argument for digital distribution it is only a matter of time until similar services realize they need to have deals and regular price drops to compete. The cost of producing a game with discs, boxes and manuals is drastically more than just having people download your game. I like digital distribution. I hate having to put on pants, so being able to get a game from the comfort of my home is awesome.

I agree, it isn't being handled well by most publishers.  Steam seems alright for it's super cheap deals.  I'm disappointed though when I pick up a physical copy of a game and see the Steam stamp on the back of the box.  Great, online checks to play.  More hassle for me, same great price.

It's great. Steam is great. I never read manuals anyway.

It was unfortunately a dream that you'd be paying less for less. Corporations will eke out profit anywhere they can get it, and people are willing to pay the same for a digital game just so they can have it now, compared to a retail copy with a physical backup of the data, essential in a world where ISPs are also cashing in on people who actually make use of the service they pay for.

Just like Gary said on this week's Tested podcast, you'll never be able to please everyone. You don't like it, I do, live and let live. It's the natural evolution of the industry, either roll with it or leave it altogether.

@BigChickenDinner said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

/totallymisspointofpost

He hasn't. A big point of your post was having a physical thing. All that matters is that you can play the game, not whether you "have nothing physical to show for it". A lot of people now don't need a physical thing to justify the purchase, it is the experience you get from playing a game that you are paying for.

Also, Steam has manual support. I'm looking at my Skyrim manual right now.

What I don't like about DD is that you can't rent or borrow the game to see if you like it. You can't sell, lend out, trade, or give away the game when you're done with it. And the online stores have the power to just take away all the games you've ever bought from them for any reason they deem fit. Hell, even if I got caught shoplifting at Gamestop, they're not gonna send goons to my house to take back all the games I've ever bought from them. You give up a lot of consumer rights and privileges with DD, and I don't like that one bit.

What I like about Digital Distribution is never playing a game on launch day, because the servers are busy.

/jk digital distribution is amazing

@BigChickenDinner said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

/totallymisspointofpost

Post? I didn't read your post.

@AlisterCat said:

@BigChickenDinner said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

/totallymisspointofpost

He hasn't. A big point of your post was having a physical thing. All that matters is that you can play the game, not whether you "have nothing physical to show for it". A lot of people now don't need a physical thing to justify the purchase, it is the experience you get from playing a game that you are paying for.

Also, Steam has manual support. I'm looking at my Skyrim manual right now.

Well maybe my point wasn't that well conveyed, but what I was really saying was I don't like the idea of paying for a game and not actually getting the game. All you get is the ability to install it. I just see so many ways how not having the game physically in your hand can cause problems. All the ranting about the physical stuff was just me saying, "see how much better it is to get your lazy ass out to a store and pick a copy up is? You get all this neat stuff, and it wont just POOF on you!!"

@BigChickenDinner: When you purchase a disc you are purchasing a license, the exact same thing as buying it digitally. You do not own the contents of the disc. The practical benefit is as you say, you can install it a lot quicker. But digital services like steam are so much better than just letting you install a game like you say. Your games won't just disappear. You own them forever.

For me its the other way around, if I have to wait for the mail and install a physical copy, I'm going to seriously reconsider the purchase. I use the DVD player so rarely that the computer is placed the "wrong way" with the backside facing me with all the connectors(the sexy end). I have to give it a reach-around to use the DVD player :)

Also, do games still ship with manuals? Most of the ones I have bought have a pdf on the disk.

A physical disc can be lost/broken/stolen, while a digital distribution account will always be there for you (assuming there aren't problems with the major services, which there have not been so far.) Updates will always be available. If you buy a game on disc and it gets patched and you want to reinstall it in a few years, those patches can be hard to find. With a digital distribution company you get the latest patched version.

Plus you can buy games at 3 am when you're sick and just want something to play, and you can get great sales without leaving the house. My steam list has like 73 games in it and I have paid full price for 0, getting most for at least 75% off. Meanwhile on the console side the discounts aren't that great, but if not for digital distribution we wouldn't have Braid or Super Meat Boy or Bastion or any other number of truly great games that are too niche for a full retail release.

As far as DRM goes early PC DRM during the 3.25 disk age was way worse than current standards. Most of the time it required you read a specific word, from a specific paragraph, from a specific page. Lose the manual, code wheel, or special thing and that was it. Worst part is that you go through the process every time you started the game.

EDIT: Digital distribution so far is way better than the traditional model. I haven't had any problems with Steam, Good old games, or the downloadable games through Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo.

When you purchase a disk you may not own the game itself, but you do own a copy of the game. I am free to do what I want with it for the most part. I can lend it, I can sell it, I can trade it for something. It is mine. It is NOT just purchasing a liscence and it is NOT the same as purchasing a DD game. And with DD, I may not own them forever, because the service could shut down or something could happen where I am banned or otherwise denied access to it. With a physical copy I only lose access through my own choice or negligence, the sole responsibility is on me and that's the way I want it to be. What annoys me is now we're starting to get physical copies that take away these consumer rights. I bought Skyrim from a store yet I have to use Steam to play it, and if I ever lose access to Steam I lose access to my game despite having the damn thing in my hands. I think that's BS, DD should be a choice, not forced on me like that. Paying the same price for way less utility and freedom is a ripoff. DD is only worth it to me when the content is heavily discounted. And with more and more PC games forcing you to be tied to DD restrictions no matter what, I find myself more and more drawn to console gaming, where I still can do what I want with the games I buy.

Digital distributed games don't need installs, because they're already installed directly to the HDD and so will run faster anyway. They take up less space in your house, and in most cases DRM isn't that big of a problem. Who ever reads manuals anymore anyway? Everything tends to be explained to you in-game.

@BigChickenDinner said:

It really seems like no one noticed the fact that you can either pay $60 for a manual (they used to be worth it back in the day, they weren't always 3 pages long) a DVD/CD(s) so you can install it where ever when ever and usually a map or poster or some other goodies, or flip side $60 for the ability to install it........

The way I have always seen it is that I can pay full price in a store to get the physical materials or I can pay full price through a digital service in order to get the game immediately as well as gain access to re-downloading it as many times as I'd like and other Steam benefits. For something where buying the boxed version gets you online downloading access (SWTOR), I tend to buy the boxed version, but otherwise, I always go digital.

I really like having the game on disc because you can always install the game faster, and your not dependent on an internet connection to install (fuck DRM >_>).

 You don't get a manual. You have nothing physical to show for it.

@BigChickenDinner said:

@AlisterCat said:

@BigChickenDinner said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

/totallymisspointofpost

He hasn't. A big point of your post was having a physical thing. All that matters is that you can play the game, not whether you "have nothing physical to show for it". A lot of people now don't need a physical thing to justify the purchase, it is the experience you get from playing a game that you are paying for.

Also, Steam has manual support. I'm looking at my Skyrim manual right now.

Well maybe my point wasn't that well conveyed, but what I was really saying was I don't like the idea of paying for a game and not actually getting the game. All you get is the ability to install it. I just see so many ways how not having the game physically in your hand can cause problems. All the ranting about the physical stuff was just me saying, "see how much better it is to get your lazy ass out to a store and pick a copy up is? You get all this neat stuff, and it wont just POOF on you!!"

yes, because games never get lost, and CD keys never get lost either

I don't mind downloading games.

@AlisterCat said:

@BigChickenDinner: When you purchase a disc you are purchasing a license, the exact same thing as buying it digitally. You do not own the contents of the disc. The practical benefit is as you say, you can install it a lot quicker. But digital services like steam are so much better than just letting you install a game like you say. Your games won't just disappear. You own them forever.

Followed. The more people that know this information, the better.

Having shelves full of games is nice.

Having room to actually live in my house is even nicer.

When you give out 60 bucks for a game you're not paying for the disc, box or manual, the cost of those things is neglectable, you're paying for the thousands of man hours it took to make said game.
 
Now liking to have the game in a box and all I can understand, but hey we still have console gaming for that, well at least for now we do, but as far as PC games go I really don't need much else then steam/gog, I love having hundreds of games neatly arranged in a digital library which would not be possible if those games were all on discs, wouldn't have enough physical space for that.

@BigChickenDinner said:

@AlisterCat said:

@BigChickenDinner said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

/totallymisspointofpost

He hasn't. A big point of your post was having a physical thing. All that matters is that you can play the game, not whether you "have nothing physical to show for it". A lot of people now don't need a physical thing to justify the purchase, it is the experience you get from playing a game that you are paying for.

Also, Steam has manual support. I'm looking at my Skyrim manual right now.

Well maybe my point wasn't that well conveyed, but what I was really saying was I don't like the idea of paying for a game and not actually getting the game. All you get is the ability to install it. I just see so many ways how not having the game physically in your hand can cause problems. All the ranting about the physical stuff was just me saying, "see how much better it is to get your lazy ass out to a store and pick a copy up is? You get all this neat stuff, and it wont just POOF on you!!"

It kind of helps if you know how this stuff works in the first place. For one, you haven't owned a game in years. Read the EULA's. Services such as Steam allow you to right click on most games and download the manual and as an intrinsic part of Steam you can backup your games to whatever storage medium you want to include a DVD. Click on Steam > Restore and Backup.

Digital distribution makes me a bit nervous because in a sense, especially with Steam, I buy into the provider as well as the game itself. In other words I am dependent om Steam being a thing as it is now, besides my full monetary investment. I appreciate steam updates and all that, but still. Also I like Box art and the with disk guide even occasionally, although I can access online and even print, like I did for Arkham City.

Now HAVING said all that, I accept Digital Distribution. Batman Arkham City won out as digital when I got 20% off, despite the fact I wanted the box art. I do wish that having the game sans the cost of the disk mattered more as a discount, but the provider might have something to say about that...

I never understood why people get so up in arms about DRM. My PC is always connected to the internet anyway, so if the game wants to connect to a licensing server to check out my copy, what do I care? It's fast and convenient, discs are a thing of the past. 

@Fajita_Jim said:

@BigChickenDinner said:

I really like having the game on disc because you can always install the game faster, and your not dependent on an internet connection to install (fuck DRM >_>).

You don't get a manual. You have nothing physical to show for it.

Done and done.

@Fajita_Jim: You're my hero.

It's a double-edged sword. Sometimes I hate not having something tangible in my hands; I miss that new manual smell and the excitement of popping the disc in and getting the auto-run menu and music - it built the anticipation and excitement a bunch, for me. On the other hand, digital distribution is freeing up hella shelf space for me and if it wasn't for the likes of Steam and digital distribution, I wouldn't have had some of my most memorable and enjoyable gaming experiences in Minecraft, Limbo and Super Meat Boy, amongst others.

@The_Hiro_Abides: @AlisterCat:

Just remember the EA blocking access to games bullshit that is still going on now. Also think about bandwidth use charges that occur in other countries, bandwidth throughput which can be throttled by the ISP for certain services. I think the problem with digital distribution is: no one is watching what those companies are doing.

That being said: Where's the steam sale?!

I've just come home from university and I hopped between two PS3s, with all my disk based games I had to pack them up securely, hunt for lost games and ended up leaving a game I was still playing behind. My downloadable games were there waiting for me at home, they were all there within a day or two.

The digital distribution revolution is coming and I personally can't wait.

@OppressiveStink said:

That being said: Where's the steam sale?!

The info has been out for days now: Dec. 19th to January 2nd.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2272641

https://twitter.com/#!/geoffkeene/status/142402108497461249

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2294436

@GunslingerPanda said:

Let go of your materialistic shackles, friend.

This!

@JoeyRavn:

Ah, thank you my friend!

PC games are really the only form of digital distribution that works for me, pretty much everything else is extremely poor. I never buy games or rent movies on xbox or PSN because their pricing is complete crap; generally more than retail, and it fills up the limited storage capacity of the system. In the last two years, I've bought hundreds of games on Steam, over 100 blurays and plenty of PS3/360/Wii games at retail, in that same time I've bought one game on PSN and rented two movies on Zune. With all the Blockbusters gone now in Canada and really no other option to rent games or movies, I was hoping that the digital distributors would step up their game, but they haven't.

@BigSocrates said:

A physical disc can be lost/broken/stolen, while a digital distribution account will always be there for you (assuming there aren't problems with the major services, which there have not been so far.) Updates will always be available. If you buy a game on disc and it gets patched and you want to reinstall it in a few years, those patches can be hard to find. With a digital distribution company you get the latest patched version.

Plus you can buy games at 3 am when you're sick and just want something to play, and you can get great sales without leaving the house. My steam list has like 73 games in it and I have paid full price for 0, getting most for at least 75% off. Meanwhile on the console side the discounts aren't that great, but if not for digital distribution we wouldn't have Braid or Super Meat Boy or Bastion or any other number of truly great games that are too niche for a full retail release.

well to be fair you account can also be lost/broken/stolen. i personally like the physical disc. even though its kinda stupid and pointless. but especially for consoles i like the physical disc since there is a limited hdd space so if i wanted to play something i would have to manage the space then at some point deleting something to make room for the next thing and later delete something else and re-install a game when i want to play it again. allso i really like my shelf of games and allso making it more likely i would play something that i have not played in years that way.

but when talking about the pc i agree with you.

but i allso agree with BigChickenDinner on some points. i really cant understand why a digital product can cost the same as a physical thing it should be less, the only reason its not is that they can get away with it

When you have internet like I do, installing on discs is actually slower in a lot of cases. Also you can download some games before they come out. I was playing Skyrim at midnight on launch, and I didn't have to leave the house, or wait for the download. Took like 20 minutes to download anyway.

Let's not forget that the digital distribution model is what makes a lot of indie games possible at all. Digital download only releases allow companies that don't have the resources to produce disks to make games, and also to make games that traditionally woudn't belong on a disk or are target at a smaller audience.

I actually somewhat agree with the OP, but with slightly different reasons. Not getting a physical object doesn't bother me, what bothers me is price. The price of a physical copy of the game consists of manufacturing and distribution costs and overhead for the store, plus some other stuff and all that adds up to the retail price of the game. By releasing it via digital distribution, you eliminate the pressing and distribution costs, so why does the cost of a digital copy still cost the same as a physical copy? Unfortunately, the way I see it, and I could be mistaken, it is because we as consumers are still willing to pay the price, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Some of these posts are ridiculously childish such as the "not getting out of the house" "no space in my house" "losing manual, code..etc". Personally I'm at 50/50 with DD, I like physical copies over DD because I feel like I own the games I buy not rent them, If I want to resell my game I want to be able to do that, If I want to play my game in a place without internet or when I don't have internet I have the freedom to do that. Having a physical copy to me doesn't mean "I want it because of the manual" but because of the freedom It gives me unlike the DD counterpart.

Also as I stated in the first paragraph, let me ask you. You don't go out of the house for food? You don't go out of the house to work? You don't go out of the house in your life? It's such a lazy childish excuse I've heard over and over. Also losing the manual and stuff, Don't you take care of the stuff you buy? Got over 70 boxed games in the past 8 years and they're all in mint condition. The no space excuse, some people say no space as if game boxes are big as a closet, I keep my collection in a medium sized printer box, they're not for show sure but they're there when I need them. Find a better excuse.

OK so DD has it's advantages, you get games earlier compared to retail and also sites like GoG you get to play old games you no longer find in retail. GoG is also the reason why I stated 50/50 in the beginning and probably the only DD I buy from simply because you're not forced to download the middle man to play a game (steam, origin...you name it). Currently the only DD service that does it right is GoG, no DRM, no activations, no crap middle man software. I've also used a few DD from Indie companies such as Frictional Games (Penumbra series and Amnesia). Also while I realize it's no gaming company's fault, there's the bandwidth limits that some ISP's apply. For some people isn't a problem but for that small minority it's frustrating especially at a slow speed and if the user downloads more than just game, and with that in mind ask me what's more convenient to those people, a 15 euro DVD Drive which almost everyone has against a weak connection.

Closing comments: As you've probably noticed I'm not entirely against DD. Sometimes I like it, what I believe is that GoG's service DD Done Right (as I call it). I buy my games from companies with services such as those and I like that but when a physical copy is provided I will always prefer it. Also thanks Riboflavin at the comment above, Companies such as Runic Games and Frictional Games make DD an enjoyable experience. There has to be best of both worlds.

I like chocolate milk

Can't resell digital shit, that's the only reason I'll never be on board.

It's great, for the most part.

But I bought Skyrim on Steam almost a month ago, and it had an invalid CD-Key. So, I have yet to hear back from Bethesda OR Steam about getting this fixed (because they both have pretty crappy customer service), and they only fix these kinds of problems within the first 30 days. Which means if Bethesda doesn't get this taken care of soon, I just spent $60 on nothing. Which makes my blood boil.

As a person who always loses his games, I love digital distribution.

@MikkaQ said:

When you have internet like I do, installing on discs is actually slower in a lot of cases. Also you can download some games before they come out. I was playing Skyrim at midnight on launch, and I didn't have to leave the house, or wait for the download. Took like 20 minutes to download anyway.

That's the major point a lot of people forget - not a lot of people do have internet like you do.

My speed is 5mb/s for download on DSL. On a good day maybe I can crack 1mb/s on upload. That's the best I can get from the only ISP in my area. Digital Distribution works great in theory, but in practice there are a lot of hassles involved that have nothing to do with Steam or publishers themselves. ISPs have gotten wise to the idea of placing exorbitant fees on Internet users who stream, download, or otherwise do anything but look at e-mail or browse Wikipedia.

And it's even worse where I live in Canada. Americans think AT&T or Comcast are terrible. They should be grateful they don't have to deal with fucking Bell.

This seems like an okay place to ask a question I've been wondering: does the Steam license agreement (or any sort of documentation) mention what will happen with games you purchased if the service were to go belly up? I can see the case being made for both giving users DRM free versions and taking away user access for good (obviously there's one option everyone would prefer).