#1 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Now don't take this as a "BLARRGGHHH COMPLAIN ABOUT PATRICK!!!!" thread, because it's not. I like Patrick, I like what he has to say about things. But his quick looks are boring as fuck for 1 reason. He literally does NOTHING for a good portion of the entire video. He runs in circles and talks, he sits in menus flicking the stick to different options while he talks. It's not compelling to watch somebody run around in circles in the same spot for 10 minutes while he talks about the game, I want to see him actually playing the game.

I had to turn off the quicklook for Dishonored for this very reason, at the beginning he literally did nothing, and when he finally does continue, at the next part he once again just stops doing anything and talks.

Play and talk Patrick...play and talk.

#2 Posted by Klaimore (945 posts) -

No.

#3 Posted by Phatmac (5686 posts) -

You make it sound so simple! Please show me an example of you trying to explain a system heavy game like Dishonored and at the sane time playing it well. Also make sure that video was seen by thousands of people too. Some of you people on here need to put things in perspective. Creating a blog for such a trivial issue like this isn't worth anyone's time.

#4 Posted by Hizang (8534 posts) -

@CL60: Thats not just Patrick, Brad, Ryan and Jeff all do this, not all of the time, but they have all done it. It's very hard to not do this though especially with a game like Dishonoured that has so many systems in place.

#5 Posted by Funkydupe (3293 posts) -

"I like you. But please don't be like you. Be more like me."

#6 Posted by Phatmac (5686 posts) -
@Phatmac same* thread replaces blog! Dumb mobile site.
#7 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Let the GB defense force commence.

#8 Edited by SlashDance (1758 posts) -

I noticed that too but he was talking about the game during that time so why would that be a reason to stop watching ?

@CL60 said:

Let the GB defense force commence.

Well, if you knew that would happen, maybe don't create the thread to begin with ?

#9 Edited by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

I have never seen a Quick Look where this isn't the case.

Patrick, as well as the rest of the crew, are very informative when it comes to these Quick Looks. And Patrick did appear to move around quite a bit from place to place during the Dishonored one, so...I dunno...I guess I just don't give a shit either way.

#10 Edited by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@CL60 said:

Let the GB defense force commence.

There's nothing to defend against. Your post barely constitutes an argument and is more just complaining.

I got what I needed out of the Quick Look. It looks like one part Deus Ex, one part Geist (There's a comparison I never thought I'd make), and looks pretty fun.

#11 Posted by Phatmac (5686 posts) -
@CL60

Let the GB defense force commence.

Or ya know people with common sense? I'm sorry that Patrick isn't a robot that is programmed to show games like a pro. He is human after all. Quick looks are harder than you think. I know I couldn't pull it off as well as Pateick did.
#12 Edited by huntad (1930 posts) -

No. Patrick explains the systems well. Ryan questions him about the systems as well, so he elaborates. The quick look was fine. It showed off the general gameplay and he explained a lot of things that needed to be said.

Again, they are not recording their voices over a pre-recorded video, or doing a video review. They are doing the commentary, playing the game, and recording the video at the same time. It's not easy. I've tried it.

P.S. I knew this thread was going to be made after I saw your comment (all caps even) under the video.

EDIT: Wow, after your second dumb post (not counting the video comment), I feel like I just wasted my effort on someone who just doesn't know any better, my mistake.

#13 Posted by Milkman (16226 posts) -

The beginning of the Dishonored Quick Look has him messing around the menus for a while but after that, it's not an issue at all. If you didn't turn off the Quick Look, you would see the vast majority of it is exactly what you ask for. Talking and playing.

#14 Posted by Sparky_Buzzsaw (5794 posts) -

He's providing good information that would be hard to follow while the action's going on. I don't really see a problem with it. If he'd sat there and sang Eiffel 65's Blue or something while screwing in the menus....

Wait. No, i'd totally watch that shit. Never mind.

Moderator
#15 Posted by mosdl (3223 posts) -

The QL was informative and helped me decide to go ahead and buy the game on Steam. And it didn't ruin parts of the game for me while still showing off what makes it great.

#16 Edited by face15 (1244 posts) -

@CL60 said:

Let the GB defense force commence.

Well I for one agree with you; it's boring as fuck when they do that. I usually just check emails or go on facebook or something and just listen to those parts until they actually start playing properly.

@Phatmac said:

...that video was seen by thousands of people too.

Don't you think that the fact that the Giant Bomb videos are seen by thousands of people should mean that they put in more effort to make it entertaining. It would be more excusable for some random YouTube person to sit doing nothing for 15 minutes while they explain the systems than it is for a big popular site like this. It's not compelling content and as users supporting the site through subscriptions or ad venue it is not unreasonable to complain and ask that they try to improve the content.

#17 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@face15 said:

Don't you think that the fact that the Giant Bomb videos are seen by thousands of people should mean that put in more effort to make it entertaining. It would be more excusable for some random Youtube person to sit doing nothing for 15 minutes while they explain the systems than it is for a big popular site like this. It's not compelling content and as users supporting the site through subscriptions or ad venue it is not unreasonable to complain and ask that they try to improve the content.

The staff aren't professional entertainers. Their job is to be informative about the games they cover. What are you looking for? Comedic slapstick?

#18 Posted by Funkydupe (3293 posts) -

It is difficult to talk sense and play games well to an audience at the same time. Maybe they could try to play some, then do a voice over? It just wouldn't be the same for me, as I like live commentary.

#19 Posted by Genkkaku (730 posts) -

So you want a quick look where he doesn't tell you about the game?

@CL60 said:

I had to turn off the quicklook for Dishonored for this very reason, at the beginning he literally did nothing, and when he finally does continue, at the next part he once again just stops doing anything and talks.

So did you at least watch the part when he said fuck it and just messed around with the game? 'cause isn't that what your asking for..

#20 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

@Genkkaku said:

So you want a quick look where he doesn't tell you about the game?

No? I want a Quick Look where he tells me about the game, and actually plays it while explaining what he's doing?

#21 Posted by face15 (1244 posts) -

@Hailinel: No. My point is that there are plenty of alternatives to sitting in menus/standing in the same spot explaining stuff that are more interesting to watch. 1) Learn to talk and play at the same time, 2) Play it first then dub in explanation over the top, 3) Edit out the parts that are boring, etc... None of these things are unreasonable to expect from a big, successful site like this that has the money and resources to do them.

#22 Posted by Tebbit (4435 posts) -

I agree with , that Dishonoured quick-look was not very compelling while he was just running in circles and explaining the mechanics, straight up. I feel like the response to his comment has been taken as a far more personal attack than it really is. I mean... come on. Quick looks are designed to show off different aspects of a game. If you want to get into the nitty gritty, record a podcast. I would have enjoyed it more if he was less articulate with his answers and pushing the gameplay forward more.

Also, it's just like... his (and my) opinion, man.

Also Pt. II: Video Games.

#23 Posted by Hunter5024 (5170 posts) -

I totally agree with you. I think the point of Quick Looks is to show not tell, but instead he just talks about it like he's on the podcast or something. I think that the best Quick Looks are the ones where they just play the game, let the other dude ask about it as they play, and highlight what's unique about the game by showing us. Instead it feels kind of like he's interpreting the game for us, instead of letting us do that for ourselves by watching.

#24 Posted by Genkkaku (730 posts) -

@CL60: So how much did you watch? skip about halfway and he pretty much just plays around with the systems and combat, showing off alot of what the game can do

#25 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

@CL60 said:

@Genkkaku said:

So you want a quick look where he doesn't tell you about the game?

No? I want a Quick Look where he tells me about the game, and actually plays it while explaining what he's doing?

He did that. The video is 45 minutes long. My advice would be to actually watch the rest of it. Not trying to be a dick. I seriously just think you turned it off way too early. He totally plays the game and talks about it at the same time.

#26 Edited by august (3811 posts) -

Maybe during the parts at the beginning where Patrick shows the menu or explains how the powers and upgrades work Vinny can down in the corner edit in some cute kitten videos. Or flashing lights or jangling keys for those of you with short attention spans.

#27 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@face15 said:

Learn to talk and play at the same time.

He does this, if you watch the video long enough.

#28 Posted by HistoryInRust (6215 posts) -

I haven't really noticed what you're complaining about. And it was necessary for Dishonored considering that game's bread and butter is a power-set accessed through a menu and upgraded in another menu by hidden items strewn about a labyrinthine environment.

#29 Edited by TruthTellah (7641 posts) -

@CL60: I think you're mistaken here, CL, particularly in the suggestion that he should stop playing Quick Looks like this. This is a matter of training and personality over a simple choice. He isn't choosing to be better at talking while not doing too much in a twitch-movement style game. It's actually difficult to properly express yourself on a topic while your mind is also set on a game like this. As the Quick Look showed, you needed to be able to notice small differences in the Blink reticle, keep aware of your surroundings, and be intentional in your movements. Brad and Jeff have explained this issue many times before. It is not simply a matter of not wanting to express yourself clearly while playing; it is a matter of how people think while both interacting with a game and trying to convey a point.

One of the best ways to improve this is through practice. Jeff, Ryan, and Brad sometimes do this, as well, depending on the game or topic, but any skill they have shown in being able to explain gameplay mechanics while playing comes from years of doing this. The only way to avoid this phenomena altogether would be to have Quick Looks all be like Quick Look EX's, with a dedicated demo-er who is mostly silent and then one or two guys explaining how the game works and describing the action; I don't think that's what any of us really want out of Quick Look videos.

Patrick is one of the newer guys on the team, and he is already at a decent level of competence on talking while playing. He has improved by leaps and bounds, and the more Quick Looks he does, the less and less this will be an issue. So, cut him some slack. None of the crew are perfect on this either, and I look forward to them all continuing to improve in being both informative and entertaining.

#30 Edited by face15 (1244 posts) -

@Hailinel: Dude, I watched the whole video. I don't have a problem with the whole video. I have a problem with the first 15 minutes which were boring as shit and had me browsing Facebook with it playing in the background.

You seem to think that it is unfair or unreasonable for me to want Quick Looks that are actually interesting enough to hold my attention. It is not. The only defence that's been used in this thread is 'it's hard to talk and play', when you're talking about a professional site with 100,000s of users, ads and a subscription service that is not a good enough excuse.

That said, I adore like 90% of the content the guys put out. It is nitpicky, but whatevs, looking at a menu is fucking boring.

#31 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -

@face15 said:

@Hailinel: Dude, I watched the whole video. I don't have a problem with the whole video. I have a problem with the first 15 minutes which were boring as shit and had me browsing Facebook with it playing in the background.

You seem to think that it is unfair or unreasonable for me to want Quick Looks that are actually interesting enough to hold my attention. It is not. The only defence that's been used in this thread is 'it's hard to talk and play', when you're talking about a professional site with 100,000s of users, ads and a subscription service it is not unreasonable at all.

That said, I adore like 90% of the content the guys put out. It is nitpicky, but whatevs, looking at a menu is fucking boring.

I didn't find the first fifteen minutes boring, though. The information that was being dispensed was actually rather intriguing to me, particularly since I hadn't been keeping up on the game at all beforehand.

So, you know, different strokes and all that.

#32 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

He really needs to stop bitching about stealth games in stealth games.

We get it. You don't like stealth games. Jesus christ, stop talking in circles for 15 minutes about the binary state of them and how people might've been "scared off". They're not the goddamn boogeyman.

#33 Posted by kishinfoulux (2077 posts) -

It's hilarious watching people jump on the TS for this. Maybe the other guys do it (I personally don't think so), but Patrick is king of this. It's a legitimate complaint. Quit getting so butthurt about it.

@Terramagi said:

He really needs to stop bitching about stealth games in stealth games.

We get it. You don't like stealth games. Jesus christ, stop talking in circles for 15 minutes about the binary state of them and how people might've been "scared off". They're not the goddamn boogeyman.

Also this.

#34 Posted by bagrm (51 posts) -

I think the issue here is that Patrick jumped around the game too much. He started in one mission, did very little while explaining the core systems, then loaded into other missions, but in those missions he played the game like someone who had already completed the game that was going back to mess around. I think it would have been better if he had started a mission towards the middle of the game and played through it like it was his first time through: showing story elements, dispatching enemies and exploring more carefully like he didn't know the layout of the level already. That would have shown the flow of the game much better. Just my two cents.

#35 Edited by TruthTellah (7641 posts) -

@Terramagi said:

He really needs to stop bitching about stealth games in stealth games.

We get it. You don't like stealth games. Jesus christ, stop talking in circles for 15 minutes about the binary state of them and how people might've been "scared off". They're not the goddamn boogeyman.

I think that was actually pretty helpful of him to talk about. Maybe you're big into stealth games, but many gamers -are- put off by how many stealth games are handled. Stealth games certainly can be intimidating in certain ways. So, explaining how this game is more accessible to a wider audience is nice to hear.

Perhaps stealth games are your thing, but I've definitely disliked some aspects of many stealth games where I felt like one odd move was the death of me. Those kinds of mechanics can be fine when done well, but for those looking for something more along the lines of experimental stealth where trying and failing isn't an insta-kill, hearing that this game encourages that is great. I'm glad he brought it up in the Quick Look, and it certainly made me more interested in the title. :)

#36 Posted by Village_Guy (2403 posts) -

Ryan does this too... And Brad to a lesser extent. All in all, it is difficult to play games and talk at the same time without screwing one of them up, so I understand why he does it.

Still it would be nice if they were better at playing and talking at the same time, but there are people who can't do that on every video game site.

#37 Edited by TruthTellah (7641 posts) -

@bagrm said:

I think the issue here is that Patrick jumped around the game too much. He started in one mission, did very little while explaining the core systems, then loaded into other missions, but in those missions he played the game like someone who had already completed the game that was going back to mess around. I think it would have been better if he had started a mission towards the middle of the game and played through it like it was his first time through: showing story elements, dispatching enemies and exploring more carefully like he didn't know the layout of the level already. That would have shown the flow of the game much better. Just my two cents.

Yeah, I agree that there is reason to suggest that he could have played an area more like it was the first time. I do think that would have given a better impression of how you'll actually feel in the experience. Though, that's a very different criticism from saying that every moment of a Quick Look has to be a combination of active action and explanation. Sometimes it's noticeably more difficult to show complex and varied gameplay than just take a moment and explain it, and trying to do both at the same time is skill that has to be worked at over a long while. So, I think the original complaint by CL is misguided, but your suggestion that the format of the Quick Look for this type of game be different seems perfectly fair for them to consider in the future.

#38 Posted by avidwriter (667 posts) -

This is the exact problem I have with him as well.

#39 Posted by triple07 (1193 posts) -

I just switch to another tab when any of the bomb crew do this. Then when I hear things happening I switch back. I mean I can't talk and play video games that have complex systems so I can't fault anyone else for not being able to either.

#40 Posted by RandyF (126 posts) -

I don't see why people are getting so upset. It's a valid criticism. He wasn't saying anything about him personally. If it's boring for him to watch in this case, then they've done their job poorly and have lost a viewer (and potentially more) because of it.

I've noticed it, too. Not just with Patrick, but Jeff likes to start off a quick look in the main menu to explain the systems and THEN jump in the game. Which, for me, ruins the point of even having another person there. I think Brad and Vinny do it really well. I've noticed that they play the game and explain systems as they stumble upon them rather than get them out up front. If they miss anything, the person with them usually asks them a question about it (Vinny's good at asking questions during quick looks, too).

So I agree with the original post. Play the game until there's something that needs an explanation and then explain it. No need to try to explain all of the systems up front or all at once. There's also no reason to get upset over someone voicing a valid criticism (politely, I might add).

#41 Posted by JJOR64 (18782 posts) -

Patrick likes to run in circles. Ryan likes to stay in menus for too long. They make a perfect pair!

I thought the Quick Look was fine.

#42 Edited by eroticfishcake (7780 posts) -

Huh, some really angry people on the site as of late. Well, whatever the case I can see where people are coming from to a certain degree. The QL felt a tad bit rushed and it would've been nicer if Patrick showed off some of the game more in terms of scenarios where he can use the powers instead of throwing them out there. So basically I wanted more context. Also Ryan didn't say quite a lot did he? Not sure if he wasn't interested or just tired. I suppose you could also argue that the game is pretty tricky to QL considering that you really need to concentrate so talking about the game (which seems pretty dense) whilst playing wouldn't have been easy.

I dunno, I'm not as angry as some people but I did think it could've been better or at least better presented. Ah well, there's already a few videos and reviews out for Dishonoured anyway so it's no real biggie. You shouldn't view any game journalism site in a vacuum.

Also, Patrick seems really hung on the failure state of stealth games which is odd considering that most of them still allow room for retrying without savescumming. That's a different topic for another day though.

#43 Posted by bagrm (51 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@bagrm said:

I think the issue here is that Patrick jumped around the game too much. He started in one mission, did very little while explaining the core systems, then loaded into other missions, but in those missions he played the game like someone who had already completed the game that was going back to mess around. I think it would have been better if he had started a mission towards the middle of the game and played through it like it was his first time through: showing story elements, dispatching enemies and exploring more carefully like he didn't know the layout of the level already. That would have shown the flow of the game much better. Just my two cents.

Yeah, I agree that there is reason to suggest that he could have played an area more like it was the first time. I do think that would have given a better impression of how you'll actually feel in the experience. Though, that's a very different criticism from saying that every moment of a Quick Look has to be a combination of active action and explanation. Sometimes it's noticeably more difficult to show complex and varied gameplay than just take a moment and explain it, and trying to do both at the same time is skill that has to be worked at over a long while. So, I think the original complaint by CL is misguided, but your suggestion that the format of the Quick Look for this type of game be different seems perfectly fair for them to consider in the future.

I agree, that's why I posted. I enjoy when whoever is doing a quick look explains the systems before playing for real, otherwise I feel like too much is going on at once, and it is difficult for them to do as well. After Patrick loaded into a later save the first time I feel like he should have played like it was his first time through like I said earlier. That was my only problem, it wasn't an accurate representation of what playing the game would be like.

#44 Edited by FoolishChaos (408 posts) -

I skipped quite a bit through the dishonored quick look, which isn't something I really do with GB videos. I don't want to spend too much time picking it apart, because that seems like a dick move, but I guess I do agree with you in come capacity. It was just kind of boring

#45 Posted by Animasta (14460 posts) -

@RandyF said:

I don't see why people are getting so upset. It's a valid criticism. He wasn't saying anything about him personally. If it's boring for him to watch in this case, then they've done their job poorly and have lost a viewer (and potentially more) because of it.

I've noticed it, too. Not just with Patrick, but Jeff likes to start off a quick look in the main menu to explain the systems and THEN jump in the game. Which, for me, ruins the point of even having another person there. I think Brad and Vinny do it really well. I've noticed that they play the game and explain systems as they stumble upon them rather than get them out up front. If they miss anything, the person with them usually asks them a question about it (Vinny's good at asking questions during quick looks, too).

So I agree with the original post. Play the game until there's something that needs an explanation and then explain it. No need to try to explain all of the systems up front or all at once. There's also no reason to get upset over someone voicing a valid criticism (politely, I might add).

Vinny barely runs QL's anymore, and people rail on Brad for being B(r)ad at games. I mean, sure, it's a valid complaint, but still; it seems to be either this or being bad at the game in most cases, especially with a game as complicated as this.

#46 Posted by AlexanderSheen (4667 posts) -

It's good that he tries to be informative, but maybe he's a bit too informative. It just not mix well with the Quick Look format, save that for the Bombcast. Other than that, the Dishonored QL was fine.

#47 Posted by zeekthegeek (374 posts) -

People like to complain about 'people getting so upset' and other nonsense when all they're doing is offering a counter-argument. Get over yourselves, not everyone who disagrees with you is sitting at home seething and slamming their fists into their monitors.

As for the OP, there's not really a lot you can do besides heavy editing or pre-recording the footage - neither of which is what I watch Quick Looks for. Ever been playing a game and then someone walks into the room to try to talk to you? Your options are usually 1> pause or 2> play shittily. This is just a fact of life and has nothing to do with Patrick or anyone else on the site.

#48 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2071 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@face15 said:

Don't you think that the fact that the Giant Bomb videos are seen by thousands of people should mean that put in more effort to make it entertaining. It would be more excusable for some random Youtube person to sit doing nothing for 15 minutes while they explain the systems than it is for a big popular site like this. It's not compelling content and as users supporting the site through subscriptions or ad venue it is not unreasonable to complain and ask that they try to improve the content.

The staff aren't professional entertainers. Their job is to be informative about the games they cover. What are you looking for? Comedic slapstick?

Its funny how many times they do quicklooks for games and barely know how to even play them or misunderstand simple puzzles or gameplay mechanics

#49 Posted by Ghostiet (5153 posts) -

Eh, Ryan's worse. Half of his videos begin with 10 minutes in menus and he's usually less informative than Patrick.
I don't mind that much. It's a valid complaint, but I can handle it.

#50 Posted by RandyF (126 posts) -

@Animasta: You're right that Vinny doesn't run quick looks very often anymore, but I don't see how that's relevant. I was just mentioning something he does well. And yes, watching Brad die and replay a section sucks, and that's a valid criticism for when Brad runs a quick look. I just don't see the need of freaking out on someone bringing up a suggestion. Although I'd much rather watch Brad replay a section than watch them sit in a menu for 10-15 minutes while they explain the game before they play it. Especially since the vast majority of people who are watching quick looks don't care about the systems in place, they just want to see how it looks in action when playing it for real. They can figure out the mechanics on their own.