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Posted by SgtSphynx (1390 posts) -
This is completely and entirely WRONG!

You "normals" always claim that "Inverters" should also invert the x-axis because of this mistake, and that mistake is shown in this image on the wiki.

The mistake is entirely with the visual of placing the stick on the back of the head. You should instead view your entire head as the analog stick. Are you doing that? Good. Now with your head as the stick you still look up when pulling the stick back and still look down when you push the stick forward. However, when you push the stick to the side, the head does not turn, it leans. In the case of aircraft, where I am sure a good number of us "Inverters" learned this control scheme, the aircraft banks to that side.

Now, when you lean your head to the side, your body tends to follow your head and turn that direction, in essence it is banking to the direction your head is leaning as an aircraft would bank to the direction you are pulling the flight stick.

This becomes even more apparent when you view your entire upper body as the analog stick, when you bend/lean your upper body, the rest of your body will go to the direction that you are leaning.

I have yet to figure out how you "normals" justify that scheme when you aren't moving a crosshair around the screen and it is instead staying in the center of the screen.

One final thought: When and why did inverted controls get named inverted? I distinctly remember them being normal when I was growing up, though my memory may be flawed.

#1 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

One final thought: When and why did inverted controls get named inverted? I distinctly remember them being normal when I was growing up, though my memory may be flawed.

I'm pretty sure this is the type of thing gaming historians are too lazy to figure out, like when games first used the analog stick for camera control (as opposed to L1/R1).

#2 Edited by MooseyMcMan (11032 posts) -

This is the best argument for inverting that I've ever seen! Keep up the good fight, brother!

Inverted Pride!

Moderator
#3 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4816 posts) -

Shit. That actually is a good argument.

Normal controls still feel better, though. And there are far more of us than there are of you.

So... nyah nyah, I guess?

#4 Posted by Brendan (7811 posts) -

The stick has always been the eyes for me. I look up, I move my eyes up, I move the stick up. I look down, I move my eyes downward, I move the stick downward.

Your way is fine, but there isn't really a "right" way. I'm guessing that the majority of people naturally understand the right analog stick the same way I do, which is why it is considered standard.

#6 Posted by Evilsbane (4619 posts) -

Normies Riot silence the lies.

#9 Posted by Zevvion (1874 posts) -

I don't use inverted controls, but I'm sure I could get used to them. The thing is, I'm not pretending to move my head with the stick. I am directing the screen where it should look at. When I point upwards, I want to look upwards, that's why I'm pointing the stick there; I'm telling it where to pan the screen. I'm not thinking about moving my head.

I guess my control preference is technology based (panning) whereas yours is immersion based (how to move your head). That could explain the difference in preference as well. No need to discuss this for long though, VR will bring an end to all of it.

#10 Posted by Clonedzero (4200 posts) -

Gross, these filthy inverts think they can justify their disgusting habits with flawed logic?

#11 Posted by EveretteScott (1490 posts) -

I hope this is merely tongue in cheek with the whole 'normals' thing. Which im sure it is!. Use/do what's comfortable for you. As can be said for anything you do.

#12 Edited by Waffles13 (610 posts) -

I'm guessing that normal became normal because when analog sticks first came to consoles, most people there didn't have flight sim experience and as a result it's easier to say "up is up" than explain why inverted makes physical sense.

The one great thing about the 360 was that I set my preference as inverted in 2006 and have never once had to toggle it in a game. The fact that the Xbox One doesn't have that any more is insane and annoying.

#14 Posted by Sin4profit (2934 posts) -

I have yet to figure out how you "normals" justify that scheme

Don't gotta justify normality.

The complexity in which i have to understand the cognitive perception of inverted controls is why it will never be called "normal"

Normal for life....except in flight sims where it is normal......But not in War Thunder.

#15 Posted by SgtSphynx (1390 posts) -

@everettescott: Yeah, it's tongue in cheek, but I do find that a lot of people do make that mistake when trying to visualize inverted controls.

#18 Edited by kindgineer (2730 posts) -

My first ever console FPS was Halo, and my friend had it switched to inverted. I've never been able to use it otherwise. It just feels normal to me.

#19 Posted by kindgineer (2730 posts) -

My first ever console FPS was Halo, and my friend had it switched to inverted. I've never been able to use it otherwise. It just feels normal to me.

#22 Posted by SgtSphynx (1390 posts) -

@hatking: It's not that I refuse to adapt, it's just what is more comfortable to. When I argue for inverted controls I do so in jest and all in good fun, I am vehemently against forcing views on other people.

#23 Posted by Vuud (1999 posts) -

I used to invert, even on my mouse mostly because I was playing flight sims with a joystick before I was playing FPS with a mouse, so it felt more natural.

I stopped inverting around the time uninverted became default on controllers.

I also used to have really weird button layouts. Once I was showing my friend Vietcong on his PC, I installed it for him and set all the controls and played a little bit, then I let him try and when he sat down he said something like "Dude, what the fuck? What is wrong with your controls? Do you really play like this?" I would have right mouse button for move forward, W was jump, spacebar was use, X was duck, etc. It wasn't until OFP and it's insanely complicated controls and menus that I was forced to use WASD because trying to remap all of OFP's commands for infantry, tanks, and planes was impossible for me.

Online
#25 Posted by SgtSphynx (1390 posts) -

@vuud: To each their own, but those controls do sound pretty fucking weird.

#26 Edited by Aetheldod (3586 posts) -

Inverted controls unite !!!!!!!! :D

Also the best duder (Vinny) uses inverted so we win by default :3

#27 Posted by CaLe (3988 posts) -

I already knew this. You're still wrong and barely human.

Online
#30 Edited by MooseyMcMan (11032 posts) -

Inverted controls unite !!!!!!!! :D

Also the best duder (Vinny) uses inverted so we win by default :3

Don't forget Drew, and I'm pretty sure Dave Snider.

Moderator
#31 Edited by ViciousBearMauling (1103 posts) -

You sub-human inverted animals can go ahead and keep trying to justify your broken brains.

I don't have to justify Normality. Suck it. Up=Up, Down=Down.

#34 Posted by Spoonman671 (4641 posts) -

But we're still all agreeing with the whole "fuck x-axis inverters" thing right? I just want to make sure we have come to a consensus on those crazy fuckers.

#35 Posted by zombiepenguin9 (533 posts) -

We've had the Australians. The British. The scientific community. And now...

Normals v. Inverts.

The Giant Bomb beef to end all Giant Bomb beefs.

#36 Posted by SgtSphynx (1390 posts) -
#37 Posted by Fram (609 posts) -

"X-Axis Inverters" is my new (insert genre mashup here) band.

#39 Edited by Hamst3r (4484 posts) -

I'm a human, not an airplane.

or a sexualized anthropomorphic airplane, which I assume would agree with your inverted controls nonsense.

#40 Posted by Tajasaurus (872 posts) -

Just because this makes sense doesn't mean it feels better

#42 Posted by Sterling (2314 posts) -

@hamst3r said:

I'm a human, not an airplane.

or a sexualized anthropomorphic airplane, which I assume would agree with your inverted controls nonsense.

What. The. Fuck.

#43 Posted by Sarumarine (2244 posts) -

I can't wait for the five weeks of e-mails complaining about control schemes on the bombcast. I'm sure that'll be great.

#44 Edited by BaconGames (3423 posts) -

Correction, the OP is spot on. Although I think it's funny and weird that people make exceptions of airplanes in games for inverted controls. We can continue to have our ethnic/religious/ideological blood war but it's good to set the record straight. "No no, we worship our control scheme this way" "Ooohhh okay, good to know. DIE HERETIC."

Real talk though, having no option to change inversion in games would be absolutely fucked. It's a small accessibility choice that enables quite a number of people to enjoy games easier. We like to have fun etc. I think the more fascinating question is the history of the joystick viewing scheme as it applies to PC joysticks and particularly console games.

#45 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1605 posts) -

(This is a comment I wrote on last week's Bombcast.)

I used to play with inverted Y, which I assume is a result of my first 3D games being PC flight sims. I deliberately switched to non-inverted a couple of years ago, as it's kind of a pain to have a non-standard (and sometimes non-supported) control preference. I was playing Final Fantasy XIII, and figured an 80-hour JRPG with almost no action component was a really good opportunity to power through the muscle memory.

In a lot of ways, I still think inverted controls are more natural in a third-person context -- and there's a reason most early third-person games had "inverted" controls. Think about Super Mario 64 -- you're controlling Lakitu with the C buttons, and if you want to look to the right, Lakitu has to move to the left. Pressing left to move left is, technically speaking, inverted in that case. (Of course, things get weird if we're talking about a third-person shooter like Ratchet & Clank.)

The only reason I decided to switch is that I wanted to pick a single control paradigm, and I figured that I should pick the most supported one. It's what made sense for me, but I don't think it's the One True Way.

I don't understand the hostility toward inverting axes. It's trivial for games to support it (they're just multiplying the input by -1, right?), and there's a significant contingent of people (i.e. most of Japan, I think?) used to inverted axes. At the risk of sounding like that guy, it's pretty insensitive to act like anyone inverting X is crazy when control preference is so based on what you grew up playing (and maybe more importantly, not playing). If first-person shooters never got popular in the west, I suspect our definition of "inverted" might be the opposite.

#46 Posted by RonGalaxy (3170 posts) -

You can rationalize it any way you like, doesn't change the fact that it feels better the other way for me -the 'normal' way- and it obviously does for the majority of people (seeing as it's the default in almost every game).

#47 Edited by Spoonman671 (4641 posts) -

(This is a comment I wrote on last week's Bombcast.)

I used to play with inverted Y, which I assume is a result of my first 3D games being PC flight sims. I deliberately switched to non-inverted a couple of years ago, as it's kind of a pain to have a non-standard (and sometimes non-supported) control preference. I was playing Final Fantasy XIII, and figured an 80-hour JRPG with almost no action component was a really good opportunity to power through the muscle memory.

In a lot of ways, I still think inverted controls are more natural in a third-person context -- and there's a reason most early third-person games had "inverted" controls. Think about Super Mario 64 -- you're controlling Lakitu with the C buttons, and if you want to look to the right, Lakitu has to move to the left. Pressing left to move left is, technically speaking, inverted in that case. (Of course, things get weird if we're talking about a third-person shooter like Ratchet & Clank.)

The only reason I decided to switch is that I wanted to pick a single control paradigm, and I figured that I should pick the most supported one. It's what made sense for me, but I don't think it's the One True Way.

I don't understand the hostility toward inverting axes. It's trivial for games to support it (they're just multiplying the input by -1, right?), and there's a significant contingent of people (i.e. most of Japan, I think?) used to inverted axes. At the risk of sounding like that guy, it's pretty insensitive to act like anyone inverting X is crazy when control preference is so based on what you grew up playing (and maybe more importantly, not playing). If first-person shooters never got popular in the west, I suspect our definition of "inverted" might be the opposite.

Nobody here is interested in your attempt at rational dialogue. Please leave.

#48 Posted by DocPorpoise (111 posts) -

@sgtsphynx: allow me to correct your mistake, in arguing personal opinion on a subjective action no matter what logical reason you use for your personal taste it means nothing to a person with opposing taste as they will have an equally logical reason for their taste. i will grant you that the naming scheme is weird in that one is called 'normal' but what ever it's named it's the one that feels right to me while playing a FPS. Flight sims i play 'inverted'. i also golf right handed but play hockey left handed, does that make sense... of course not, but it's what feels right to me as i perform the task. in the end you're just over thinking a trivial thing, like which is better cake or pie. people will like either because they're both delicious. the true answer is of course cake because only a monster would pick pie over cake.

#50 Posted by TheManWithNoPlan (5517 posts) -

Man, this is a really touchy subject around here.