Is it bad that consoles might be dead in japan

This article from neogaf about Japan's growing mobile and slumping consoles sales has everyone there declaring the death of consoles again. If by some chance mobile does take over japan completely what does this mean in the long run for consoles and how will it effect sony and Microsoft will they leave these platform and go mobile. Is this bad that this is happening in japan I mean looking up stats it looked like ps3 only sold 10mil there which is far cry from ps3 total sales everywhere.

Last generation Japan accounted for less than 10% of all console sales and between the three consoles (360, PS3, Wii) it was the most successful console generation of all time. Japan isn't super important sales wise, and while it's more important creatively, I don't think declining console sales will necessarily mean all the Japanese devs will shift away from them too. It's not like we've seen developers like Platinum, Kojima Productions, or From Software moving to mobile or handheld, they're still making AAA console games.

I've got news for you: Consoles aren't doing well in other regions either due to the growth of mobile. The amount of households in the US who own 1 console is tiny compared to the number of people who own phones/tables.

I doubt MS or Sony give a fuck about the Japanese market any more. Hell, even Sony, who is a Japanese company, released the PS4 way later in Japan.

Despite the difficulty in understanding the OP this sums up my feelings on consoles. They aren't dying, even if Japan's sales are low.

More importantly, to this, I worry about Japanese development. I want it to remain unique, so things like Darksouls is a real standout for me (especially when I consider it to be the best game made in the last 10 years or so- maybe a little less than that, 8 years) and I hope this kind of thing continues as I do somewhat hate that Japan has to struggle to remain relevant- as I do love some crazy Japanese games. I don't want them to start making more "Western" games.

I don't know, though. It's weird. I don't think consoles are going anywhere, though.

Is this the start of the "consoles are dead" threads?

I'm worried about it. Back in the day, Japanese games were awesome because a lot of them were made for that audience. Made it interesting and unique over here. Like Brave Fencer Musashi, that didn't give a shit about Western audiences.

Now, Japanese companies say things like "we're targeting a worldwide audience" and it's through their lens, of what they think Americans are like.

It's occasionally awesome. But mostly it feels strange.

I want Japanese games that embrace their culture and target their audience first. Like Muramasa: Rebirth, or The Wonderful 101.

Not Gal Gun, though. Unless Jeff is playing it.

Indeed. The only reason we don't notice it as much in the US is because both Microsoft and Sony have been focusing on games that appeal to American audiences primarily. No surprise, then, that Japan's passing on both consoles.

(By the way, how's the WiiU doing in Japan?)

Global markets are global.

If I actually believed that was true I might, but I don't. As usual, the media can think in nothing but extremes, so obviously consoles are dead now, instead of just sharing the market with other products. There's a far cry from a decline to death. Even if consoles aren't as big of a deal as they once were, they aren't gong anywhere anytime soon.

@ronniecolemanmro: I do think consoles have become very much like computers these days. Now a days it seems like the latest systems have the same insides, nothing proprietary anymore. Back in the NES, SNES days the machines were very different experience from what you got from your PC, now a days the way they build the new consoles and Steam managing to give PC game developers a good option where seeing the same games on both consoles and PC. I think in general the console is starting to get too much like the PC, it needs to find a ways to separate themselves from giving the same experience.

For me when a game gets old I'd buy it in the store when it comes down to $20, but now a days usually Steam is faster to give the discount and I've been buying a lot of missed console games on my PC.

The only thing consoles have is console exclusive's, and even those usually end up on the PC unless its made from the company that makes the system.

I really like consoles, but the PC is starting to take away some of there market imo.

For cell phone and tablet games I don't think we have anything to worry about, there is no way that is the future. Angry birds doesn't offer the same quality as the latest Mario game. Its just a cheap substitute. I see the younger kids going that direction but eventually getting a console.

Japan is more into gaming on the go. Handheld games that can be played while on a train will give them more playing time than a home console. Japanese children may not have access to a television all the time either. Most Western houses seem to have like twelve TVs at this point. Since you can play a 3DS or Vita without hogging the one big screen in the house, this must help a lot. PC gaming is also a rare thing in Japan as are digital downloads.

Also Monster Hunter. Holy crap when is Monster Hunter 4G coming out here?

Not exactly. You know how available English-language media is across the world? Far more available than many other languages.

EIWTS

Well I primarily care about Japaneses developed games more than their hardware and I prefer them to be the handheld or console variety. If most of the core Japanese pubs (Capcom, Square Enix, Konami, Nintendo etc) go primarily Mobile with their creative efforts....Well I'd probably play a lot less videogames .

@csl316 said:

Yeah, I'm sad that we're long past the truly strange days of Japan making console games just for itself, and seeing those get imported. That stream GB did with Vib Ribbon was genuinely really neat. But yeah, now the idea of getting the budget for a console game and only releasing it in a language that like ~130 million speak is just not really on the table, unless the budget for the game is quite modest. If it's a big budget game, they need it to also sell pretty well internationally.

You're right, it's interesting seeing them learn what Westerners like. Like how Westerners seem to think that Bravely Default is just good ol' fashioned RPG fun, while Lightning Returns was the conclusion to a trilogy no one wanted, and there's some quote where that genuinely surprised some Square Enix guy, right?

Nonetheless, also thoroughly agree that it's been a great few decades seeing Japanese culture through the lens of video games. I'll miss that.

I feel like I just pulled a "Patrick Klepek", which I define as "restate exactly what someone else just side, but take twice as long to say it".

Bah .... first it was the pc is dying ... now consoles ... sheesh calm down there will always be games for us , if not from big developers some fans becoming developers will have us covered.

No, but I think Japanese gaming is making a very, very much needed shift and isn't making horribly niche games that very limited audiences care about. While there are some exceptions and companies who have been able to continue in their ways, the amount of bad JRPGs and shitty fighting games has decreased.

And that's not a bad thing. As long as guys like Kojima, From Software, and the FF team are successful, Japan will always play a huge role in games.

Consider it well-needed trimming of fat, if you will.

Whatever, man. Feel free to expand on my awesome points.

I don't really agree with that at all. I've never found the big blockbuster games to be the most interesting stuff to come out of Japan. MGS and FF can be alright at times, but I'd give up every single one of those games in a heartbeat for a new Suikoden or a something. And you seem to forget that From Software was nowhere near the same level of popularity as MGS or FF when Demon's Souls came out. They were exactly the type of niche company you're talking about.

Frankly the biggest disappointment in the last gen of consoles is the loss of so many of those middle-tier developers and games, and if anything Japan needs more of those kinds of developers taking risks.

The bigger problem with Japan is that the overall population is aging. In terms of consoles this means more people are maturing out of the console gaming with fewer people to replace them.

Wonder why they won't reproduce? Are they really so concerned about overpopulation that they're too scared to fuck without protection? Also they could easily emigrate if they're worried for their kids and overpopulation.

It's more that young Japanese people simply don't want to start a family, and Japan is notoriously unreceptive to immigration. (And probably emigration as well.)

Different cultures.

I believe lot of young Japanese people simply don't make enough money that they feel comfortable enough to start a family. You are actually seeing the same in most of the westernized world too among people with post secondary educations.

I never get this consoles are dead business. I mean they still make vinyl records for people that love them right? There's always going to be hardcore first-person shooters for the fans, I mean they sell in the millions. Even if they drop in sales there's always going to be a crowd of gamers who want dedicated platforms. Maybe it'll become a niche audience, but that's ok too really... I doubt games we love will just disappear completely.

First post in the thread states exactly what I was going to say after reading the OP.

Japan is an anomaly in a lot of ways, like their complete apathy towards PC gaming, which is arguably where a lot of the best developers and games from the last generation started from. Not to mention where the most progress is being made in indie gaming and the free to play market. Well, not completely predatory free to play as seen in a lot of mobile gaming, but games with good value proposition, like MMOs and MOBAs.

As II_exile_II said, they do still matter creatively. As long as AAA games are being sold somewhere, there will be people that would like to profit from those sales, including Japanese businesses.

Considering how many new consoles have been sold worldwide already, despite having next to nothing new to offer, I'd say they seem to be doing alright for themselves.

The future of "real" gaming is the PC. Streaming is getting easier and better so being able to play on your tv isn't going to be an issue and game publishers don't have to pay licence fees and can control their pricing better cutting out the retailers. Mobile phones and tablets have already replaced consoles as gifts. I'll be surprised if microsoft puts down another console next generation and unless sony does something soon they'll be bankrupt in the next 10 years (Project Morpheus?)

I don't think gaming is going to die but its definitely going to change in the next 10 years the death of the first party is going to significantly affect the number of story based games in the future the last of us might actually end up being one of the last great story based games leading more to multiplayer only based experiences.

When John Riccitiello predicted and bet the future of EA that everything had to have an online component he was right he just predicted it one generation too early.

I think Japanese developers are slowly starting to realize that what westerners want from them are the same types of games they have always made. The thing is, like other have stated, you can't make a AAA game just for Japan anymore. The thing is that the solution is not to make western games. The solution is just making the types of games you make well really well, while trying to at least make the story understandable to those that aren't intimately familiar with Japanese culture. To use an anime analogy that like five people are going to understand, if you are Studio Ghibli make more Miyazaki and less Takahata. The former is undoubtedly Japanese but the themes of his stories are universal and don't require an understanding of Japanese culture or folklore to enjoy. You'll get more out of some of them if you do, but it is not required. The latter often makes movies that just don't make sense to those outside of Japan (My Neighbors the Yamadas or Pom Poko are two really extreme examples). Both directors make great films that are well received in their home nations, but one makes films that are beloved worldwide while the other makes films that are largely successful only in Japan.

^

Absolutely agree with you, Raven. Look at the Lost Planet games. The first one was, despite of some of its shortcomings beloved by a lot of people, but the second and third one were garbage. It was their attempt to make a western game, but they are just not at that. It's pretty ironic how Square had to realize that making their games more like Bravely Default and less like Final Fantasy XIII would be a good idea. Although, I doubt that anything could help that company at this point. Their management is just the worst.

Next gen will probably be something of a mobile console hybrid anyway, but i think it affects japanese game makers more than anything else.

This is kind of a silly time to be evaluating the strength of console sales as an indicator of the future. The new consoles have yet to hit their stride and the figures for past sales are distorted by the Wii, which was less an indicator of the strength of consoles and more a one-time phenomenon; I imagine that's particularly true in Japan.

As much as some wish this was true, it's just not. The successful PC games nowadays are the indy stuff that doesn't cost a lot to make and a humongous pile of F2P, microtransaction focused products. The kind of game I care about would never make their money back if they came out on PC only because the PC audience is just too use to pay 3 bucks for game that are worth 60, play F2P games for thousands of hours or just download the latest big game on bitTorrent.

You would be right that single player focused games are dying if PC was the dominant platform in the industry but games like skyrim and GTA 5 made a huge amount of money in recent years. People are still into single player games, it's just that some (thankfully not most) don't want to spend money or only very little money to be able to play them.

I am looking at a headline from Business Insider that popped up in the feed this morning: "Nintendo Post Yet Another Loss, Despite Mario Kart 8". According to their(BI) stats they globally shipped 510k units for spring/q3. A big jump from the 150k units in the previous year same quarter and improvement over the 310k q2 but lagging way behind the PS4 or Xbox One. They too cite issues with competing with Apple and Google.

In terms of the handheld side of things...

It's true that I saw very few people rocking portable video game systems in public in Japan (at least in Tokyo, Osaka, Hiroshima, Kyoto and Nara). I got plenty of StreetPasses, but I'm given to understand that if the 3DS was around before the recent widespread popularity of mobile phone gaming, the numbers that would use their Nintendo consoles would be many times greater.

There were still lots of video game shops open (both big and small) and they still appeared to carry lots of stock (both new and old). But these shops were never as banging or as packed or as crazy as I'm given to believe they were in the 80s and 90s. However, with that being said...

As of the 16th of July, 2014

1. [3DS] Yokai Watch 2: Ganso / Honke (Level-5, 07/10/14) – 1,316,707 (New)
2. [PSV] Freedom Wars (SCEJ, 06/26/14) – 20,617 (252,665)
3. [3DS] Yokai Watch (Level-5, 07/11/13) – 19,153 (1,195,287)
4. [Wii U] Mario Kart 8 (Nintendo, 05/29/14) – 15,143 (527,366)
5. [3DS] Taiko Drum Master: Don and Katsu’s Space-Time Great Adventure (Bandai Namco, 06/26/14) – 14,713 (92,220)
6. [PS3] Watch Dogs (Ubisoft, 06/26/14) – 10,273 (53,957)
7. [3DS] Pokemon Art Academy (Nintendo, 06/19/14) – 7,465 (63,922)
8. [PS3] Grand Theft Auto V Low Price Version (06/26/14) – 6,121 (18,570)
9. [PS4] Watch Dogs (Ubisoft, 06/26/14) – 6,000 (82,378)
10. [3DS] Pokemon X / Y (Pokemon, 10/12/13) – 4,738 (4,101,986)

Source: http://wiiudaily.com/2014/07/japanese-sales-yokai-watch-2/

@extomar:

Huh. I guess Extra Credits weren't kidding.

I've got nothing constructive to add. I just think this paragraph is some of the most correct-ass correctness I've ever read.

It's not a big deal. The next gen console are setting records for sales despite doing poorly in Japan. Besides consoles may lose Japan, but they are getting China. A much better market IMO.

Why would they do better in China? It was also reported that part of Sony's losses this reporting quarter was losing out on mobile market in China. I have the sneaky suspicion China doesn't care about any console from any vendor as well.

I've never got on with mobile gaming. The control schemes always strike me as a big compromise. However, I can see the box in the living room being scaled back to be something you can use to stream and the console makers reverting to bolstering their existing services to provide these games. PSN and Live will just expand and, maybe even just become the thing consoles used to be.

Who knows what will happen with China. They've banned consoles for the past 14 years. Bigger population a new toy. IMO I just think consoles will do better in China.

#JAPANDONTMATTER

Will they ever get China though? They've got some huuuge hurdles around pirating and regulations over there. Not to mention patriotic reasons not to get Western/Japanese consoles/games.

By the time China is viable, the console manufacturers have probably vanished for better PC alternatives for the couch.

Hardware won't matter in the future, services will.

And I missed it before, but what sales records are any of them setting? As already mentioned there are billions of phones and tablets out there and not 100 million console in households combined worldwide.

We are already have TVs that are Android platforms and interface directly into Google Play. We have already seen how well Stream streaming play works as a thin client. The days of buying another box you buy and stick under your TV maybe done let alone something so expensive and highly specialized in features and function like a console.

China ended its ban on consoles this year so sales in China will slowly increase.

I know and recognize that and still say it doesn't matter anyway. China (along with India) is the fastest growing mobile market that dwarfs other regions like ALL OF EUROPE. If consoles are sluggish in Europe, why is China going to change this equation? If anything it is too late since "that ship has sailed" awhile ago.

Kinda happy for the quality of portable games this generation. Too bad the 3DS doesn't have Vita's hardware.

Hopefully the keep releasing better and better games for portables systems. To be honest I wish Persona 5 would go portable and not console.

This. If they haven't had consoles before, why would they want them now when tablets/phones are hotter?

There haven't been video games going into or out of Japan in a long time, so it probably won't have any effect.

All this talk about hooking stuff up to your TV - isn't TV pretty much dying too? People these days really don't seem to watch a lot of TV, most TV channels, at least in Sweden (and I think most of Europe) have phone apps where you can watch their stuff. In Sweden there's been a steady decline of household TV sets, and since our public broadcasting is funded with licenses from each household with TV sets, the state attempted to expand the fee to include all owners of home computers and smart phones (this was challenged and rejected in court earlier this year though).

I'm pretty sure the entire thing of having a TV set in your living room is on the decline. Probably gonna happen slowly over the course of decades, and most will likely keep their TV sets until they break, but I have a hard time seeing kids growing up today seeing acquiring a TV set of their own as a priority when they move out from their parents.

Sure, people use their TV's to watch Netflix and stuff like that, but at some point I'm sure most will consider the TV an unnecessary expense when they can just as well watch Netflix on their tablet.

This is the 21st century... Does it matter if Japan doesn't play home consoles?

If people in North America, South America, Europe/Australia, the Middle East, and some percentage of Asia and Africa....how does it matter what size the home console market is in Japan to everyone else? Japan is not the biggest development center for video games as it was in the 80s and early 90s. Japan marginalized itself in development by not innovating; and in this marginalized state, they matter a lot less to the industry as a whole.