Is the casual gaming market getting way too undeserved hatred?

I know I talked about this before, but I didn't go into the entire subject in general. There seems to be this huge beef with the hardcore gaming audience, where they despise any casual game that appeals to a wider market. 
 
Like Pop Cap games, Wii games, Farmville, and so forth. 

They go as far as to hating games that not only appeal to a hardcore market, but maintain casual friendly appeal. Such as; games from Blizzard, the Call of Duty series, Halo series, Sports games, Oblivion, and the Guitar Hero series. 
 
I really feel it's pathetic of them to the feel like gaming should only just appeal to "gamers" (A word that I'm getting sick of). What's wrong with games that appeal to people? Is there anything wrong with game that are simple to get into? It's sad. I'm really the biggest fan of casual games, but I can enjoy them from time to time. Heck, it's good for the industry and receive a large profit. Games shouldn't just appeal to one demographic, it should appeal to a larger audience, like other mediums. 
 
I have to admit, that some games are just WAY too hardcore for their own good. Do I really have to read a three-hundred page manual to play a game? Or travel a thousand miles real-time, where I have to fight flying carnivores that attack at every corner, just to get to a simple destination to complete a fetch quest?

Yes.  A lot of hatred.  People on the internet hate everything that isn't explicitly tailored for them and hates everyone that likes/loves it.

Peggle is fun.
 
that is all.

" Peggle is fun.  that is all. "

I think some hardcore gamers associate pride with being able to understand a complicated game and rightfully so. They have spent hours and money into their video game hobby and seeing someone else just playing farmville can be frustrating.  
 
But I agree with you, casual games get an undeserved hatred. I enjoy the majority of Popcap games, Wii games are a great way to have fun with friends who won't normally game, and despite Farmville being very simple is could lead to more gaming in the future.  
 
I think gamers just get afraid of "others" taking over their beloved industry and forcing Gears of War into Kinect minigame collections. Then again Tetris would be considered a "casual game" by those gamers standards. 

Yes, and it's stupid as hell. Didn't we all start off as casual gamers, playing Pokemon and Mario (or Crash Bandicoot, or Number Munchers, or Sonic, or whatever your equivalent is) before moving onto the more hardcore shit? Hell, didn't gaming itself start off as casual? How can you tell me that the Atari and NES were geared specifically to a hardcore audience?

We all wanted gaming to be more accepted and popular in a way, Beggars cant be choosers.

ITT: haters hating on haters.

You put popcap games and farmville in the same sentence?  Whatever, I don't know what people you're talking about, but it's no surprise that people don't care for bad minigame collections or dumb facebook games.  Nothing else to it.  The Wii just happens to be a magnet for those kinds of bad games, but when a good Wii game comes out people do give it credit.  There's a lot of random games being thrown at these motion controlled platforms now, and many of them are terrible, so of course people will make fun or trash talk that stuff.

" You put popcap games and farmville in the same sentence?  Whatever, I don't know what people you're talking about, but it's no surprise that people don't care for bad minigame collections or dumb facebook games."

"  Do I really have to read a three-hundred page manual to play a game?  Where are these manuals you speak of? "

I think you'll find that this whole thing really breaks down once you realise that terms like "gamer", "casual", "hardcore" etc... are pretty much nonsense terms.

" @Claude said:

"  Do I really have to read a three-hundred page manual to play a game?  Where are these manuals you speak of? "

There was this real-time strategy game that required the player to read a incredibly thick manual, in order o understand the basics of the game. "

" @Video_Game_King: I disagree with calling Pokémon a casual game, but respect your choice to do so. "

" @Video_Game_King: I disagree with calling Pokémon a casual game, but respect your choice to do so. "

" I think you'll find that this whole thing really breaks down once you realise that terms like "gamer", "casual", "hardcore" etc... are pretty much nonsense terms. "

I think gamers need to learn that times have changed.  Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how something like Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga can even be called a game.  Those are interactive movies.

" I think gamers need to learn that times have changed.  Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how something like Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga can even be called a game.  Those are interactive movies. "

" @jakob187 said:

" I think gamers need to learn that times have changed.  Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how something like Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga can even be called a game.  Those are interactive movies. "

Very badly written movies I might say.  Okay, okay. I admit MGS and MGS3 were great, MGS2 and 4 on the other hand....  Also, Xenogears > Every Xenosaga game combined. "

" @GhostlyEnigma said:

" @jakob187 said:

" I think gamers need to learn that times have changed.  Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how something like Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga can even be called a game.  Those are interactive movies. "

Very badly written movies I might say.  Okay, okay. I admit MGS and MGS3 were great, MGS2 and 4 on the other hand....  Also, Xenogears > Every Xenosaga game combined. "

Why did you decide to bash games for no real reason? "

I've already written a little on this myself (see the 'Anger' section), but in short I believe that everyone should have the right to enjoy video games and that people who play casual games get far too much undeserved hate.

yeah, sure they are. a lot of games are marked for casual games. there aren't a lot of games that are made for hardcore people anymore. they should add more things into the game for casual players to play and hardcore things for the people that want to spend a lot of time on.  in that way everyone would be equal to enjoy the game. 
 
i don't really like the terms that people use.

casual games are fine.  I like a well crafted, simple arcade or puzzle game as much as anyone.
 
There are some games that seem to be built around manipulation of the psychological state of the user and step over the "evil line".  Farmville comes to mind.  If their gameplay is essentially Progress Quest with a very thin layer of frosting over the top then the game is evil and deserves to be ridiculed and destroyed.
 
MMOs are almost there.  Usually there is more to them tho, enough to actually call them a game.

The hatred is more towards the company that abandon their roots and go in for nothing but cash. Look at Nintendo, they were never the Gears of War type, but they made games that were for gamers none the less. Now, the Wii only has a handful of games worth playing, after years of development time.

" Yes, and it's stupid as hell. Didn't we all start off as casual gamers, playing Pokemon and Mario (or Crash Bandicoot, or Number Munchers, or Sonic, or whatever your equivalent is) before moving onto the more hardcore shit? Hell, didn't gaming itself start off as casual? How can you tell me that the Atari and NES were geared specifically to a hardcore audience? "

" @jakob187 said:

" I think gamers need to learn that times have changed.  Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how something like Metal Gear Solid or Xenosaga can even be called a game.  Those are interactive movies. "

Very badly written movies I might say.  Okay, okay. I admit MGS and MGS3 were great, MGS2 and 4 on the other hand....  Also, Xenogears > Every Xenosaga game combined. "

" I have to admit, that some games are just WAY too hardcore for their own good. Do I really have to read a three-hundred page manual to play a game? Or travel a thousand miles real-time, where I have to fight flying carnivores that attack at every corner, just to get to a simple destination to complete a fetch quest? "

There's a lack of clarity about what 'casual' is meant to denote. A game like Guitar Hero or Pokemon is theoretically accessible to anyone, but can become absurdly hard and complex if one tries to master them. Other games that are referred to as 'casual' are simply puzzle games, whether they are more or less simple than any other puzzle games is besides the point. Based on those criteria I would refer to Batman: Arkham Asylum a casual game due to the extreme simplicity of its combat and stealth mechanics (or whatever other example you might prefer).
I suspect that the attempt to come up with some meaningful determination of what a casual game is mechanically will be a waste of time. If it's meant to designate a category of player, as most people do I presume, then anyone who doesn't play games consistently is a casual gamer no matter how 'edgy' or 'hardcore' their tastes are. Someone who only plays Call of Duty or the occasional game of Persona could be considered a casual gamer. Then again, would it be sensible to refer to someone who exclusively plays Gran Turismo 5 or Street Fighter 4, or even Peggle, 10 hours a day a casual? 
It's probably best to avoid using these terms altogether, so I endorse the OP.

" The hatred is more towards the company that abandon their roots and go in for nothing but cash. Look at Nintendo, they were never the Gears of War type, but they made games that were for gamers none the less. Now, the Wii only has a handful of games worth playing, after years of development time. "

" Someone who only plays the occasional game of Persona could be considered a casual gamer.  "

" @trophyhunter:   Still, though, the games were marketed to a casual audience. The gameplay was simple, easy to pick up, and the stories were the same. "

I liken this whole casual VS hardcore situation to parents bringing home a new child(The Casual Market) and the older child( The "Hardcore" Market) throwing a temper tantrum. All of our lives we have been the only child and mommy and daddy( Developers) have always given us all the attention and what we wanted because we were the only kid in the house. Now the baby has been brought into the house( Casual game market) and now the older child(The "Hardcore" game market) doesn't like baby taking so much of the attention of mommy and daddy. So they lash out and throw temper tantrums in hopes of making mommy and daddy pay attention to them again and give them the things they want.
 
Just like in the above situation time will go on and eventually everyone will learn that mommy and daddy loves both of them and that they are going to give them both an equal amount of attention. It's just that right now baby needs the attention. Then over time the two will develop common interest and the difference will become so negligible that we will all become one big dysfunctional family that can coexist with one another.

" I liken this whole casual VS hardcore situation to parents bringing home a new child(The Casual Market) and the older child( The "Hardcore" Market) throwing a temper tantrum. All of our lives we have been the only child and mommy and daddy( Developers) have always given us all the attention and what we wanted because we were the only kid in the house. Now the baby has been brought into the house( Casual game market) and now the older child(The "Hardcore" game market) doesn't like baby taking so much of the attention of mommy and daddy. So they lash out and throw temper tantrums in hopes of making mommy and daddy pay attention to them again and give them the things they want.   Just like in the above situation time will go on and eventually everyone will learn that mommy and daddy loves both of them and that they are going to give them both an equal amount of attention. It's just that right now baby needs the attention. Then over time the two will develop common interest and the difference will become so negligible that we will all become one big dysfunctional family that can coexist with one another. "

• Atari makes simple games that everybody can play.
• Nintendo does the same, but much better.
• Then comes Sega, bringing with them the "hip", "cool" (widely marketable) Sonic the Hedgehog.
• Sony then brings out the PS1, tapping into the previously untapped teen casual audience.
• This continues for the next generation with Halo and stuff.
• Nintendo comes back with motion control, aiming for soccer moms and naked grandmas.
  

No, it's deserved.

" @owl_of_minerva: 
 
For whatever reason, I always thought you were a girl. Maybe it's the Minerva part of your username. But on subject, I'm assuming that it has something to do with the fact that she's dating a gamer who knows about this type of stuff. I'd ask you if she's obsessive about Fragile Dreams, but given that we're both the two biggest fans of the game, it seems rather pointless.
 
@trophyhunter:  How so? "

I don't exactly know what qualifies a game as 'casual', so I have no idea. 

" @crusader8463: 
 
Huh? Since when were hardcore gamers EVER the main focus of the industry? That's a bad business model. Almost every generation has tried to appeal to the casual market. Let's outline this, shall we?
 

• Atari makes simple games that everybody can play.
• Nintendo does the same, but much better.
• Then comes Sega, bringing with them the "hip", "cool" (widely marketable) Sonic the Hedgehog.
• Sony then brings out the PS1, tapping into the previously untapped teen casual audience.
• This continues for the next generation with Halo and stuff.
• Nintendo comes back with motion control, aiming for soccer moms and naked grandmas.
  

"

" No, it's deserved. "

" @Pinworm45 said:

" No, it's deserved. "

yo! fuck dem casual posers! they dont know teh tru meaning of being hardcore bro! shit, they do nothing but play one or two hourz of gaming! thats pussified shit! hardcore gamerz play counteh-strike 18 hourz a day! i once played morrowind for a hundred hours non-stop, even when my girl waz calling me out on a date!  becuz thatz tru hardcore gaming bro! for realz! hardcore gaming iz da shit!  "

The only "casual" game I despise is the annual Call of Duty entry. Hate the game and the impact it has had on the industry. That said, I probably wouldn't have such a problem with it if I didn't see and hear about it everywhere I go.

I don't mind casual games, as like you, I can enjoy some from time to time as long as it's fun/good quality.  What I do hate is the storm of terrible casual games on the Wii and the money the people make off those games.  It makes me fear a future where creative new games and games that are just well made are few and far between.  Granted, that's probably not going to happen, but it still makes me fear.
 
Edit:
@Pinworm45 said:

I certainly did not type like a retard, so I don't particularly understand where your obnoxious, outdated poor spelling insult is attempting to go.  Regardless, my beef with 'casual gamers' as people like to call them (I call them the average person) is the same beef I have with the 'casual movie goer' (or again, average person): they give money to shit like transformers while good stuff comes out in limited droves because it makes no where near as much money.  Who you want to blame for that is up to you, but I don't like it and as such I don't have a particular fondness for whatever name you want to throw on people who "don't play counteh-strike 18 hourz a day" "