#1 Posted by Aurelito (721 posts) -

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

#2 Posted by natedawg_kz (234 posts) -

They are dumbing down their RPGs to make it accessible to a wider audience which will likely make them more money.

#3 Posted by MikkaQ (10288 posts) -

Yeah I had to live there when I was in college. It's kind of a rough place, a bit like living under Midgar in FF7. At least the locals are friendly and the ethnic food choices aren't bad.

#4 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

I'm posting this because I have no damn clue what you're talking about.

(I saw the Japanese version of this today, and it's exactly the same, only with Cartman's Japanese voice actor. It's scarier than it sounds.)

#5 Edited by Aurelito (721 posts) -

They are dumbing down their RPGs to make it accessible to a wider audience which will likely make them more money.

That's why I say there's some sort of ghetto surrounding RPG genre. They thing everyone who plays them is some sort of weirdo who wears wizard hats on the street. Fuck them.

#6 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3834 posts) -

Other genres are just getting RPG elements. What are you talking about when you bring up Acti-Blizzard and Bioware? I don't even know with AB, but as for Bioware: Mass Effect is a third person shooter/RPG. They brought RPG elements into that genre, it is a hybrid game.

@mikkaq said:

Yeah I had to live there when I was in college. It's kind of a rough place, a bit like living under Midgar in FF7. At least the locals are friendly and the ethnic food choices aren't bad.

Sometimes you have to wear a dress to get things done too. It aint easy!

#7 Posted by Jimbo (9809 posts) -

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Well, they're right to think that traditional RPGs are too complicated for most of the market aren't they? Not necessarily too complicated for their intelligence, but too complicated for their taste in entertainment.

What they're wrong about is believing that not enough people like them to warrant making them. Origins was pitched as a traditional RPG and sold gangbusters. Dragon Age 2 was pitched as BUTTON > AWESOME and flopped. It's not like that Origins audience has suddenly disappeared, it just isn't being served by anybody at the moment.

#8 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3834 posts) -

@jimbo said:

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Well, they're right to think that traditional RPGs are too complicated for most of the market aren't they? Not necessarily too complicated for their intelligence, but too complicated for their taste in entertainment.

What they're wrong about is believing that not enough people like them to warrant making them. Origins was pitched as a traditional RPG and sold gangbusters. Dragon Age 2 was pitched as BUTTON > AWESOME and flopped. It's not like that Origins audience has suddenly disappeared, it just isn't being served by anybody at the moment.

There are plenty of kickstarter RPGs on the horizon for that audience, which is great to me. Most big RPG fans are happy with that level of production costs. Shadowrun Returns, Wasteland, new Torment, Dead State, Project Eternity, etc.

EA has been talking game about Dragon Age III returning to that as well, we will see though. Would be really dumb for them not to, given the reality of sales that you point out. They've been talking about Skyrim too so maybe somewhat that direction... not sure at this point.

#9 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1701 posts) -

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

#10 Posted by Hailinel (24778 posts) -

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

Regardless of how you classify it, they managed to break Diablo III with the auction houses. Why actually play the game to find awesome loot when you can just spend time staring at charts and min/maxing through auction house purchases?

Online
#11 Edited by RollingZeppelin (1973 posts) -

WTF is an RPG ghetto?

#12 Posted by Aurelito (721 posts) -

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

WoW?

#13 Edited by ll_Exile_ll (1701 posts) -

@aurelito said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

WoW?

MMOs are an entirely different beast, and that wouldn't fit the criteria for "dumbing down", since it hasn't been and it doesn't have a sequel.

#14 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3834 posts) -

@aurelito said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

WoW?

WoW.... has been dumbed down from what?

@hailinel said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

Regardless of how you classify it, they managed to break Diablo III with the auction houses. Why actually play the game to find awesome loot when you can just spend time staring at charts and min/maxing through auction house purchases?

Has nothing to do with the topic though.

#15 Edited by FourWude (2261 posts) -

RPG ghetto is where I live.

That's where I come from. Never forget.

#16 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

@aurelito said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

@aurelito said:

I feel like there is. Else, why are Acti-Blizzard and Bioware dumbing down their RPG games? Do they feel like general audience are a bunch of morons who find RPG genre too complicated?

Has Blizzard ever even made an RPG? Do you mean Diablo, because that was never complicated nor was it ever an RPG, it's a dungeon crawler.

WoW?

WoW.... has been dumbed down from what?

Itself, presumably. MMOs can change drastically over time, although I'm not sure if that's the case with this MMO.

#17 Edited by ArbitraryWater (11734 posts) -

When I hear the term "RPG Ghetto", I immediately think of games like Two Worlds or Lionheart, which I imagine are the low budget-high ambition residents of that particular part of town. Sometimes Mr. Bioware comes around just to sneer at them with his gold-plated monocle and Mr. Bethesda a haughty sigh, but don't worry. One day, those residents of the RPG ghetto will get the break they need, and then it will be Mr. Bioware polishing their eastern european boots!

And, to be fair, RPGs have been dumbed down to suit a mass audience since the first Neverwinter Nights only let you control one character.

#18 Edited by Azteck (7449 posts) -

I just don't think the term "ghetto" is applicable in this situation.

#19 Posted by Levio (1784 posts) -

If anyone is curious about WoW, it's kind of a mixed bag. The original gameplay systems have been really simplified and streamlined: no more skill training every 2 levels, no more weapon skill ranking up, super early mounts, reputations are easy to boost, raiding is now super easy to join, professions made easier, you get exp from doing anything, no attunement systems, etc.

But then Blizzard added a ton of new systems on top of those mechanics. New trade skills, bind on account items, mini-games, pet battles, archaeology, and other weird stuff that you wouldn't normally associate with WoW.

#20 Edited by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

Giant Bomb Presents the "Weird Thread" of the Day!

#21 Posted by Itwastuesday (964 posts) -

I don't know what an RPG ghetto is so I'll just imagine it has to do with that Seth Green rap RPG that never came out and Dragon Age 2

#22 Posted by Aurelito (721 posts) -

@azteck said:

I just don't think the term "ghetto" is applicable in this situation.

Countless people have already used the term "ghetto" to describe seclusion of a genre to an specific audience (mostly nerds I imagine). It is a real thing, for example they'd actually criticized Led Zeppelin for referencing a weirdo-attracting fantasy novel, LotR.

And cartoons have their own ghetto, children. Many criticized the Academy for nominating a children's cartoon in 1990, Beauty and the Beast.

#23 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@aurelito said:

@azteck said:

I just don't think the term "ghetto" is applicable in this situation.

Countless people have already used the term "ghetto" to describe seclusion of a genre to an specific audience (mostly nerds I imagine). It is a real thing, for example they'd actually criticized Led Zeppelin for referencing a weirdo-attracting fantasy novel, LotR.

And cartoons have their own ghetto, children. Many criticized the Academy for nominating a children's cartoon in 1990, Beauty and the Beast.

Yeah, they right? Fuckin' they.

#24 Posted by Azteck (7449 posts) -

@aurelito said:

@azteck said:

I just don't think the term "ghetto" is applicable in this situation.

Countless people have already used the term "ghetto" to describe seclusion of a genre to an specific audience (mostly nerds I imagine). It is a real thing, for example they'd actually criticized Led Zeppelin for referencing a weirdo-attracting fantasy novel, LotR.

And cartoons have their own ghetto, children. Many criticized the Academy for nominating a children's cartoon in 1990, Beauty and the Beast.

And who are these countless people? I could claim that a ton of people describe movies as devils magic, but it doesn't really validate that notion. Ghettoization deals with the act of isolating something, like an area within a city. I don't see how this could be applied to a game no matter genre, and especially not something as high budget as the products Actiblizzard put out. Now, I'm sure even if you could fit this definition on certain genres, it completely goes against your example where they actually want to appeal to as many people as possible, thus not isolating a group but actively doing the opposite. It's a matter of money, not some disdain for the genre or the people who like it.

#25 Edited by Aurelito (721 posts) -

@azteck said:

@aurelito said:

@azteck said:

I just don't think the term "ghetto" is applicable in this situation.

Countless people have already used the term "ghetto" to describe seclusion of a genre to an specific audience (mostly nerds I imagine). It is a real thing, for example they'd actually criticized Led Zeppelin for referencing a weirdo-attracting fantasy novel, LotR.

And cartoons have their own ghetto, children. Many criticized the Academy for nominating a children's cartoon in 1990, Beauty and the Beast.

And who are these countless people? I could claim that a ton of people describe movies as devils magic, but it doesn't really validate that notion. Ghettoization deals with the act of isolating something, like an area within a city. I don't see how this could be applied to a game no matter genre, and especially not something as high budget as the products Actiblizzard put out. Now, I'm sure even if you could fit this definition on certain genres, it completely goes against your example where they actually want to appeal to as many people as possible, thus not isolating a group but actively doing the opposite. It's a matter of money, not some disdain for the genre or the people who like it.

Dude I just saw it on TVtropes and liked it.

#26 Posted by deathstriker666 (1337 posts) -
#27 Posted by casper_ (903 posts) -
#28 Posted by RollingZeppelin (1973 posts) -
#29 Edited by StarvingGamer (8237 posts) -

I'm posting this because I have no damn clue what you're talking about.

This is exactly what sprung into my mind. Both the video and your sentiment.

#30 Posted by Dagbiker (6976 posts) -

They are dumbing down RPG's for the same reason they added RPG elements to Shooters. To get people to play games who would normally not play them. The good part is, I play more types of games then I did years ago. The bad part is that every game is becoming the same. But this has really always been a problem.

#31 Edited by Fredchuckdave (5477 posts) -

Every modern Bioware game going all the way back to KOTOR has been dreadfully simple and easy; though some of them were fun to play and reasonably engaging (but still repetitive). Blizzard makes RPGs?

#32 Posted by Branthog (5562 posts) -

Can you blame them? If you're a small independent studio, you only need to sell enough copies of a game to pay the bills. If you're a public corporation, you apparently need to sell 775-million copies per title just to break even.

#33 Edited by Branthog (5562 posts) -

Giant Bomb Presents the "Weird Thread" of the Day!

You obviously haven't seen the "what's weird about drinking breast milk" thread.

#34 Edited by Stimpack (863 posts) -

Platypunk owns big stock in the RPG ghetto.

#35 Posted by TruthTellah (9073 posts) -

There are definitely RPG ghettos.

http://whatdoesgodneedwithastarship.com/104toughs.png

http://lpix.org/231229/E03_003.jpg

#36 Posted by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

@branthog said:

@donutfever said:

Giant Bomb Presents the "Weird Thread" of the Day!

You obviously haven't seen the "what's weird about drinking breast milk" thread.

Not until now.