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#1 Edited by Dick_Bonerflex (44 posts) -

On February 28, Senran Kagura burst will get a physical release in Europe. In response, Chris Rooke wrote this article, admonishing the game for being misogynistic and actively encouraging others to ignore it. http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/56737/blog/senran-kagura-burst-is-damaging-the-industry-heres-how-to-stop-it/?page=2

Given the similarities between the nature of the complaints on Senran and Dragon's Crown, I can't help but wonder if this type of response won't garner the game more attention then it would've gotten otherwise and possibly even lead to boosted sales.

#3 Edited by csl316 (7986 posts) -

Dragon's Crown kicked ass, so I hope so?

#4 Posted by DonChipotle (2693 posts) -

No, because Dragon's Crown was a good game and Senran Kagura Burst was not very good at all.

#5 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@dick_bonerflex said:

On February 28, Senran Kagura burst will get a physical release in Europe. In response, Chris Rooke wrote this article, admonishing the game for being misogynistic and actively encouraging others to ignore it. http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/56737/blog/senran-kagura-burst-is-damaging-the-industry-heres-how-to-stop-it/?page=2

Given the similarities between the nature of the complaints on Senran and Dragon's Crown, I can't help but wonder if this type of response won't garner the game more attention then it would've gotten otherwise and possibly even lead to boosted sales.

Let us hope so because this is getting really tiredsome^^

That is a really nice cover i must say^^

@donchipotle: Actually people say it is a pretty good game with a good story as well.

#6 Edited by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

That article couldn't have said less about the actual game if it tried. Will it be like Dragon's Crown? If by that you mean people will argue about it and it'll get some buzz and then it'll fizzle away a few weeks later... then yeah, maybe. I don't really think it matters. It doesn't seem any worse than lots of other Japanese and Western games that have been coming out.

Edit- actually he just linked us to page 2. Page one actually talks about the game.

#8 Edited by BabyChooChoo (4252 posts) -

I don't even know where to begin. All this bullshit hyperbole does more damage than anything else, but I don't feel like writing some long-winded response at the moment.

Also, oddly enough, I happened to be watching this video when I saw this thread and I feel Eric's rant is slightly relevant to the issue at hand. It starts about halfway through and kinda comes and goes all the way to the end.:

#9 Edited by Veektarius (4541 posts) -

The art style of this game (and I'm not talking about boobs) will ensure it has a niche base of defenders at most, whereas Dragon's Crown was better-tailored to a Western Audience.

#10 Posted by RockyRaccoon37 (412 posts) -

From the Marvelous Entertainment official blog: "planning for the game started before the first Senran Kagura, but was rejected because the producers thought it needed breasts to sell."

From the Wikipedia page: "The more they are damaged by enemies, the more their clothes are torn off. The game also features erotic elements that use the features of the Nintendo 3DS system such as stereoscopic 3D, 3D cleavage along with 3D images of other body parts"

Pretty open and shut case right there.

#12 Posted by Fredchuckdave (5187 posts) -

Name is Japanese sounding so people won't care.

#13 Posted by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

While I do think that Dragons Crown's designs got a bit eyeroll-worthy, it's pretty obvious this is in a whole different league objectification-wise. If this game had even the slightest chance of being as popular as Dragon's Crown it might have actually warranted the hulabaloo which DC got.

#14 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

While I do think that Dragons Crown's designs got a bit eyeroll-worthy, it's pretty obvious this is in a whole different league objectification-wise. If this game had even the slightest chance of being as popular as Dragon's Crown it might have actually warranted the hulabaloo which DC got.

Why because they sexualize women? That is nothing bad. An going by the stuff I have read about the game all have very strong and individual personalities. Just because it has boobs does not mean it is damaging for women or this industry. We need to get away from this thinking. Also again people who played this game actually saying that the gameplay is really really good as well. Stop judging a game by its boobs....

#16 Edited by Brodehouse (9524 posts) -

Dragon's Crown was very fun and very pretty.

#17 Posted by AMyggen (2463 posts) -

@darji: That's your opinion, while others think a game like this is going a bit far. From the Wiki article:

"The more they are damaged by enemies, the more their clothes are torn off. The game also features erotic elements that use the features of the Nintendo 3DS system such as stereoscopic 3D, 3D cleavage along with 3D images of other body parts."

That seems a bit much to me, without having played it of course. But I dubt we'll agree on anything regarding this topic.

#18 Posted by bigjeffrey (4713 posts) -

the new one coming out.

#19 Posted by LiquidPrince (15836 posts) -

@darji: That's not going to be the North American cover. I highly doubt it. This is Nintendo we're talking about... The same retarded company that felt the need to censor Bravely Default because apparently North American children can't handle belly buttons.

#20 Edited by Pie (7035 posts) -

Sounds more like some hot Gal Gun action than Dragon's Crown

#21 Posted by Dick_Bonerflex (44 posts) -

I could've probably worded the OP a bit better, but my main question was weather or not digging up games like this and trying to incite people against them is more likely to backfire and just give an otherwise niche game that would've flown under most peoples radar a bunch of free publicity.

#23 Posted by ervonymous (1297 posts) -

It already came and went in the US where it topped the eShop chart, Norwegian, Danish and Swedish retailers probably won't stock it and blogs get hits.

While I do think that Dragons Crown's designs got a bit eyeroll-worthy, it's pretty obvious this is in a whole different league objectification-wise. If this game had even the slightest chance of being as popular as Dragon's Crown it might have actually warranted the hulabaloo which DC got.

DC definitely has more immediate mainstream appeal but Vanillaware games are still pretty niche, where as SK is a cross-media franchise which seems to be picking up steam with new game announcements. Even one of the manga series got picked up by a western publisher and the first volume came out late last year.

#24 Posted by ervonymous (1297 posts) -

That's not going to be the North American cover. I highly doubt it. This is Nintendo we're talking about... The same retarded company that felt the need to censor Bravely Default because apparently North American children can't handle belly buttons.

NA didn't get a physical release because of the current political climate of video games. I thought the Bravely Default censorship was by Square Enix but seeing how Nintendo published it in the west that's more likely.

#25 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@amyggen: Is it too much for you personally or do you think that this is damaging for women or even this industry? Ripped of Costumes is nothing new like in Batman for example. And yeah this game is totally sexualized but is it harmful to women just because they have bog boobs and these ripping clothes like the article mentioned? I really do not think so. For example:

It's time to set the record straight, and make sure an insultingly misogynistic and degrading atrocity like this is avoided in the future.

what is so misogynistic about this? It is a niche game for male gamers or teens. Should just thing not exist anymore because women also playing video games? I do not think so.

@liquidprince: Yeah that is the EU cover.

#26 Posted by AMyggen (2463 posts) -

@darji: As a male, I really can't speak for women, and especially not all women. So I don't know the answer to your question. If a game like this became mainstream I expect it to not help the reputation of the gaming industry, but this is so niche that only a small niche will even know about this game.

#27 Posted by BisonHero (6055 posts) -

@fredchuckdave said:

Name is Japanese sounding so people won't care.

Pretty much. The racism will cancel out the sexism, everything will be fine.

#28 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@amyggen said:

@darji: As a male, I really can't speak for women, and especially not all women. So I don't know the answer to your question. If a game like this became mainstream I expect it to not help the reputation of the gaming industry, but this is so niche that only a small niche will even know about this game.

Yeah it is not a Final fantasy game but rather made for a specific small audience they thing it will make a profit since there is also an Anime. It is not harmful to anyone at all.

#29 Posted by ll_Exile_ll (1410 posts) -

I don't know anything about this game or the author and I usually try to avoid these discussion, but I have to say something.

First of all, I am 100% in favor of better representation of women in this medium. Offensive probably isn't the right term, but I find this type of objectification disagreeable. I am not morally outraged or anything, but I certainly don't think too highly of games that go this route, and I have no interest in playing them.

However, I can't support this article either. There is a huge difference between "objectification" and "misogyny", and even the most fan-servicey oversexuallized personality-free plot devices that pass for female characters in some games don't come close to "misogyny". Call it objectification, call it pandering, even call it sexist, but misogyny is the hatred of women, and even the games with the worst representation of female characters don't come close to that.

As long as people keep throwing around words like misogyny, the issues this medium has in regards to women are going to continue to be ignored. By pointing the finger at every low cut top or kidnapped girlfriend and screaming misogyny, the real issues are being buried in hyperbole.

This game looks childish and probably a bit sexist, and I want nothing to do with it, but it isn't misogynistic.

#30 Posted by crithon (3059 posts) -

hmmmm you mean as a big of a deal with the blog scene?

#31 Posted by Willza92 (258 posts) -

I get it, I really do. objectification is bad and we shouldn't do it...

But gosh darn do I love boobs and video games. If this game came with a label that said "Hey, we are making this game just for these guys over here, because we think they would enjoy this game," would it be such an issue? And it's not like this game or any one game represents the entire industry. People who are worried about sexism games would point to this, I would point to Gone Home and The Last of Us.

I mean, what the fuck. VIDEO GAMES. Who actually gives a shit? It's not like they (or anything else for that matter) is going to be around in 1,000,000 years from now. Enjoy what you enjoy. Ignore what you don't. Vote with your wallet and not with your blog. Stop trying to tell me I am a bad person because I think the art for Dragons Crown is great.

#32 Posted by Splodge (1028 posts) -

As long as people keep throwing around words like misogyny, the issues this medium has in regards to women are going to continue to be ignored. By pointing the finger at every low cut top or kidnapped girlfriend and screaming misogyny, the real issues are being buried in hyperbole.

I have to agree about the misuse of the word. I have the displeasure of knowing someone who is a GENUINE misogynist, who I have been unable to avoid at certain family functions. There is a world of a difference between objectification and misogyny.

#33 Edited by SomeJerk (3130 posts) -

Sooo...

Japanese publishers = demanding sexing up games

US publishers = demanding guns & actioning up games

EU publishers = lol

#34 Edited by Hunter5024 (5514 posts) -

It sounds like this guy just found out about the whole sexism debate and decided to regurgitate all of the most common points from his side. Allow me to do the same: sexuality is not the same as sexism, sexual characters aren't necessarily being objectified, it is not misogynistic by any definition of the word to create or enjoy fictional sexy female characters, if activists can have games like Gone Home, why can't perverts have games like Kenran Sagura and so on.

Anyways Senran Kagura has been around for a while, and it will probably fly under the radar, because it is niche, and weird, and doesn't have the kind of fan base that Vanillaware has.

#35 Edited by SaturdayNightSpecials (2305 posts) -

Yeah, it's unfortunate that the overeducated New Games Journalist types have taken the opposing side of this whole argument, because the alleged sexism is not what's keeping me from playing games like this. I just don't want my entertainment to treat me like a 14 year old boy who hasn't discovered actual porn yet.

Like if you're going to sex up every single part of your game, make it about sex already.

#36 Edited by xyzygy (9871 posts) -

Dragon's Crown is done tastefully and has a uniquely beautiful art style. This is just dumb anime bullshit that we've been seeing for years.

#37 Posted by l4wd0g (1896 posts) -

@splodge said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

As long as people keep throwing around words like misogyny, the issues this medium has in regards to women are going to continue to be ignored. By pointing the finger at every low cut top or kidnapped girlfriend and screaming misogyny, the real issues are being buried in hyperbole.

I have to agree about the misuse of the word. I have the displeasure of knowing someone who is a GENUINE misogynist, who I have been unable to avoid at certain family functions. There is a world of a difference between objectification and misogyny.

That's my feeling too.

#38 Edited by Darji (5294 posts) -

@hunter5024 said:

It sounds like this guy just found out about the whole sexism debate and decided to regurgitate all of the most common points from his side. Allow me to do the same: sexuality is not the same as sexism, sexual characters aren't necessarily being objectified, it is not misogynistic by any definition of the word to create or enjoy fictional sexy female characters, if activists can have games like Gone Home, why can't perverts have games like Kenran Sagura and so on.

Anyways Senran Kagura has been around for a long time, and it will probably fly under the radar again, because it is niche, and weird, and doesn't review well, and doesn't have the kind of fan base that Vanillaware has.

I think it is really funny that despite all these sexualized characters Japan produces so many female characters are actually really strong and individual characters. The diversity of female characters in Japanese media is really great and western developer and directors or comic producers should take a deep look at that and take notes . People really should start looking behind all this sexual stuff.

#39 Posted by ToTheNines (626 posts) -

Articles like that makes me want to buy the game in protest of being preached at. Its not even worth counter arguing any of it.

#40 Posted by GnaTSoL (790 posts) -

@willza92 said:

I get it, I really do. objectification is bad and we shouldn't do it...

But gosh darn do I love boobs and video games. If this game came with a label that said "Hey, we are making this game just for these guys over here, because we think they would enjoy this game," would it be such an issue? And it's not like this game or any one game represents the entire industry. People who are worried about sexism games would point to this, I would point to Gone Home and The Last of Us.

I mean, what the fuck. VIDEO GAMES. Who actually gives a shit? It's not like they (or anything else for that matter) is going to be around in 1,000,000 years from now. Enjoy what you enjoy. Ignore what you don't. Vote with your wallet and not with your blog. Stop trying to tell me I am a bad person because I think the art for Dragons Crown is great.

Voice of god?

#41 Edited by cloudymusic (1041 posts) -

@darji said:

You might have a point if the creators weren't marketing this game almost solely as You've Probably Never Touched a Boob So Here Are A Bunch of Digital Ones: The Video Game. I mean, just look at that cover art or go watch a few gameplay clips.

I'm fine with sexuality in video games if it's done decently, but this series is hilariously pandering and seems to be afraid that it has nothing interesting to hook players without stripping down characters or making LOL GIANT TITS sight gags every five seconds. This series doesn't even feel like it has respect for its target audience.

If you want to defend the game because you like the sexual aspects, there's nothing wrong with it, just be honest about it. Only realize that people are going to be bemused if you shout from the rooftops about its "really really good story" and "great gameplay" because the rest of the world seems to strongly disagree.

#42 Posted by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

Jesus, guys. Do some of you really not think endless sexualization of female characters, with little-to-no reverse equivalent, isn't an issue? I've got no problem with women as sexual beings, but there's a difference between that and just being eye candy. It's nice when games let women be non-sexual beings, as well. Can you imagine how absurd it would be viewed to have a game where the women are in practical armor and the men are all- or mostly- in skimpy revealing crotch-accentuating outfits, designed to titillate? And yet we can see the opposite and go, oh yes, they're obviously just respecting women as sexual beings, nothing wrong here. It's absurd. A women with a strong, self-respecting sense of sexuality is a healthy sexual being, but that's rarely-to-never whats portrayed. Sorry if that feels like being preached at, but I don't think people should just ignore it.

#43 Posted by StarvingGamer (7922 posts) -

Oh boy, another year of "journalists" that don't actually know what "misogyny" means. Go 2014?

If you want to defend the game because you like the sexual aspects, there's nothing wrong with it, just be honest about it. Only realize that people are going to be bemused if you shout from the rooftops about its "really really good story" and "great gameplay" because the rest of the world seems to strongly disagree.

The rest of the world also hasn't played the game so I don't see how their opinions about the gameplay and story would be in any way relevant.

#44 Edited by HeyGuys (326 posts) -

Sexism in the industry as a whole is a real problem, and one that's much bigger than any one game. This game is so over the top it's hardly worth worrying about, its weird, fetishistic representation of women's bodies is not and will never creep into the mainstream. Not a game I'd ever buy but it would be smart to just let it pass by for all but those who are interested in its presentation, it isn't going to affect video games as a whole.

#45 Edited by alwaysbebombing (1525 posts) -

@splodge said:

@ll_exile_ll said:

As long as people keep throwing around words like misogyny, the issues this medium has in regards to women are going to continue to be ignored. By pointing the finger at every low cut top or kidnapped girlfriend and screaming misogyny, the real issues are being buried in hyperbole.

I have to agree about the misuse of the word. I have the displeasure of knowing someone who is a GENUINE misogynist, who I have been unable to avoid at certain family functions. There is a world of a difference between objectification and misogyny.

I'm sad no one left on Earth has access to a dictionary.

#46 Posted by TowerSixteen (542 posts) -

Yes, why don't we all continue to pretend slight misuse of a term in place of an obviously related term for a linked issue is the end of journalism and invalidates everything being said.

#47 Posted by Darji (5294 posts) -

@cloudymusic: But here is the problem. People are saying the characters, the gameplay and also the story are quite good despite the sexualizing stuff. I have not played the game or watched the anime. I do not even like the girls I have seen from the trailer but maybe just maybe the game is just not for me and when there is a market for these games they have every right to exist. These games are not made to be played by woman. This game was made for a specific audience nothing else. Look at twillight. That movie was also made for a special female audience so does it not have any right to exist because it objectifies men? No. If it sells it has right to exist. That is my motto.

Another example look at porn. Porn is made for various special audiences. Some want bondage, some like amateur stuff, some like these porn parodies and so on. Do these objectify women? Does gay porn objectifies men? Yeah maybe but it is not harmful to anyone at all. Why have games to be different?

#48 Posted by HeyGuys (326 posts) -

Yes, why don't we all continue to pretend slight misuse of a term in place of an obviously related term for a linked issue is the end of journalism and invalidates everything being said.

Well then people might have to engage with the idea of the depiction of women in video games. Seriously though, that's a legitimate topic for sure but this game is a ridiculous jumping off point for any conversation about it. Let's be real this is objectification being sold with a video game, not a video game being sold with objectification.

#49 Edited by cloudymusic (1041 posts) -

@starvinggamer: This isn't the first game in this series. The series has always been about an all-encompassing fixation on huge breasts, but with Burst it's basically become the series's main differentiator, which is a little sad. Like I said, this series is now being designed, marketed, and advertised for the breasts first, and literally everything else second.

I know that lonely otakus are a big demographic in Japan, but it's still hilarious.