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#1 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3744 posts) -

The story then:

Yes, the PS Plus version will be the exact same as the full version, except that it may be missing a few assets such as cars or tracks, that will be found in the full version. However the online multiplayer, the asynchronous challenges and the single player campaign will all be present in the PS Plus version. The PS Plus version gives us to the biggest open community, day one. This game is all about socialising.

"The only difference between the PS Plus edition and the boxed retail is that there's a slightly scaled down version of content..."

"We haven't released specific details about what we're going to refine for the PS Plus Edition yet, but in terms of the gambit of features, you're going to be able to issue challenges, you're doing to be able to do asynchronous online races, you're going to have all of the single player content in terms of events. The specifics we haven't gone into yet but you're going to have the full gaming experience."

"This game is huge," he continues, "and to have the full scale download as the initial [PS plus] release, it was a conscious decision to make it as slick as possible."

"You can earn the platinum trophy in the PS+ Edition, remember its the full game minus a few cars/tracks."

The story now:

"The PlayStation Plus Edition hasn’t changed. It’s hardly a demo because you get access to all of the game’s features online and offline. The difference is that you only have 10 cars and you can only race in one country (which gives you access to 5 tracks with 11 distinct variants)."

NOTE: The full game has at least five announced countries.

“So you won’t get all the cars, you won’t get all the tracks, butyou still get all the key features: you’ll be able to play online, multiplayer races, you’ll be able to join a club, create connections, attend challenges and even play through part of the single-player game and unlock Trophies as well

[when asked why only part of the single player] "Simply because the PlayStation Plus Edition doesn’t include all of the cars and tracks that you’ll need to complete DRIVECLUB Tour."

See the NeoGAF thread for more: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=810823

All I can say is, Sony, you shouldn't have written a check that your ass couldn't / refuses to cash.

You don't get to say "its the full game minus a few cars/tracks," and "you're going to have all of the single player content in terms of events," and then release a game with approximately 20% of the full version's tracks and PART of the single player."

There's nothing "slightly scaled down" when you're talking about 80% of your game's content being gone, and I find it pretty sad that so many people are willing to give game companies a pass when it comes this sort of crap.

#2 Posted by Kidavenger (3556 posts) -

Internet entitlement...

#3 Posted by Demoskinos (14839 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac: Uh that hardly seems like they changed their tune. Also, plans change. So I'm honestly surprised they are giving PS+ members any version of this.

#4 Posted by Spoonman671 (4641 posts) -

Yeah, and it was supposed to come out last October. Shit happens.

#5 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3744 posts) -

@kidavenger said:

Internet entitlement...

How far does a company have to go with broken promises before "entitlement" stops being an argument? If they said we'd be getting over 100 tracks, and it turned out we ended up with 2 tracks, would you consider voicing an objection in that situation to be entitlement?

They said one thing, we're getting another. If they never said "you're going to have all of the single player content", and people demanded that the PS Plus version include all the single player content, THAT would be entitlement. Holding a company responsible for what they claimed is not entitlement.

I don't use the term "corporate apologist" much, but...

#6 Posted by MattyFTM (14385 posts) -

They were always intentionally vague about the Driveclub PS+ offering. It was always pretty obvious that it was going to be an extremely scaled down version of the game, and they were being vague about it so they could use it as a big selling point.

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#7 Posted by JasonR86 (9710 posts) -

That isn't a lie. The first statement said the Plus version would include part but not all the content of the full version. The second statement specified what 'part of the content' meant in complete detail.

#9 Posted by spraynardtatum (2972 posts) -

Internet entitlement...

Care to elaborate? Actually nevermind, I don't know if I can take any more reductive bullshit.

#10 Posted by MetalGearSunny (6992 posts) -

From the moment they announced it, it's been "Diveclub: PS+ Addition." Nothing's changed.

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#11 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3744 posts) -

@mattyftm said:

They were always intentionally vague about the Driveclub PS+ offering. It was always pretty obvious that it was going to be an extremely scaled down version of the game, and they were being vague about it so they could use it as a big selling point.

Nope. You don't get to say "its the full game minus a few cars/tracks," and "you're going to have all of the single player content in terms of events," and then release a game with approximately 20% of the full version's tracks and PART of the single player."

There's nothing "slightly scaled down" when you're talking about 80% of your game's content being gone, and I find it pretty sad that so many people are willing to give anyone a pass about this sort of crap.

#12 Posted by Jesus_Phish (805 posts) -

First statement was you'll get less content. Second statement confirms you get less content and what that content will be.

I'm not seeing how this is a lie?


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#13 Posted by AlexanderSheen (5009 posts) -

No, this seems about right.

#14 Posted by Zelyre (1200 posts) -

Yup. From the moment they announced it, it was a whole other product, and from the description given, it was a glorified demo. A GT prologue. A MGS Ground Zeroes. Cept unlike the later two, "free".

And by demo, it seems more like the Doom demo of ye olde. A really sizable chunk of product that gives you all the game play, but not all of the content.

#15 Posted by Lukeweizer (2684 posts) -

Internet entitlement...

Exactly. How is this different than what they said before? They said you won't get EVERYTHING in the game, and guess what, you don't. Did you really expect Sony to hand PS+ members a brand new game for FREE?

#16 Posted by Kidavenger (3556 posts) -

@kidavenger said:

Internet entitlement...

How far does a company have to go with broken promises before "entitlement" stops being an argument? If they said we'd be getting over 100 tracks, and it turned out we ended up with 2 tracks, would you consider voicing an objection in that situation to be entitlement?

They said one thing, we're getting another. If they never said "you're going to have all of the single player content", and people demanded that the PS Plus version include all the single player content, THAT would be entitlement. Holding a company responsible for what they claimed is not entitlement.

I don't use the term "corporate apologist" much, but...

I don't see that they have broken any promises at all; thus the "entitlement" if you expected more, you expected too much, it's more than a demo and less than a full game exactly what we were lead to believe, making a big stink out of nothing is "internet"

#17 Edited by BisonHero (6532 posts) -

I feel like people would be angrier about this slight change in wording, except nobody is paying attention to Drive Club, nor will they ever.

I guess this mythical person that largely bought a PS4 and PS+ for this sweet Drive Club promotion will be sad, but they were already sad months ago when it got delayed.

#18 Edited by Zella (756 posts) -

Doesn't sound like they lied really. They more just went from the usual marketing over exaggeration and vague information, to a more detailed version of what to expect. This kind of thing has always been around in business, it's called marketing. Look at a burger from a TV ad then look at the real thing.

It is very easy to excuse this case in particular seeing as how it is referencing a "free" option. From the sounds of it there is still all the modes and event types available, just less cars and tracks. If they were talking about the full version having tons of tracks and cars then later went on to say how it has less than previously claimed, that could be cause to be upset as it is a fully priced product. The game is essentially free in this case though, as PS+ has become a near essential costs of owning a PS4.

#19 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3744 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac said:

@kidavenger said:

Internet entitlement...

How far does a company have to go with broken promises before "entitlement" stops being an argument? If they said we'd be getting over 100 tracks, and it turned out we ended up with 2 tracks, would you consider voicing an objection in that situation to be entitlement?

They said one thing, we're getting another. If they never said "you're going to have all of the single player content", and people demanded that the PS Plus version include all the single player content, THAT would be entitlement. Holding a company responsible for what they claimed is not entitlement.

I don't use the term "corporate apologist" much, but...

I don't see that they have broken any promises at all

You honestly don't see "you're going to have all of the single player content in terms of events" and then only including part of the single player as a broken promise?

You also don't see "The only difference between the PS Plus edition and the boxed retail is that there's a slightly scaled down version of content" when you're talking about 80% of your game's content being gone as a broken promise?

It's fine that Sony is making a trial version of Drive Club available for PS Plus members, and I can understand Sony wanting to make that fact seem as attractive as possible, but this just crossed a line. Again, Sony said one thing, and we're getting another.

#20 Edited by awesomeusername (4187 posts) -

Here we go again. Are you excited for the game? If so, buy it at the discounted price they'll be selling to owners of this edition. If not, who the hell cares? Most people who will get this through Plus will play it for a bit and never touch it again.

#21 Posted by Sergio (2130 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

That isn't a lie. The first statement said the Plus version would include part but not all the content of the full version. The second statement specified what 'part of the content' meant in complete detail.

Agree. This isn't a lie. @spaceinsomniac even underlined it. This: "except that it may be missing a few assets such as cars or tracks" sounds a lot like this: "The difference is that you only have 10 cars and you can only race in one country (which gives you access to 5 tracks with 11 distinct variants)."

#22 Edited by Sterling (2315 posts) -

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#23 Edited by SpaceInsomniac (3744 posts) -

@sergio said:

@jasonr86 said:

That isn't a lie. The first statement said the Plus version would include part but not all the content of the full version. The second statement specified what 'part of the content' meant in complete detail.

Agree. This isn't a lie. @spaceinsomniac even underlined it. This: "except that it may be missing a few assets such as cars or tracks" sounds a lot like this: "The difference is that you only have 10 cars and you can only race in one country (which gives you access to 5 tracks with 11 distinct variants)."

It does sounds a lot like that, except when you factor in the fact that the full game will include access to five COUNTRIES, and if each of them includes a similar amount of content, we're talking about 80% of the game's content being referred to as "a few assets such as cars or tracks."

Or "a slightly scaled down version of content"

Or "its the full game minus a few cars/tracks"

It honestly makes me kind of sad to see so many people defending being lied to like this.

#24 Posted by Nodima (1203 posts) -

Thankfully Drive Club PS+ Edition isn't what I have a Playstation Plus subscription for, nor has it ever factored into my decision to renew it. I would much prefer developers go this route more often in the future than the Timed Trials that were never super satisfying on PS3 (in large part because you had to download the whole game, which would take hours, and then you only have a single hour to play it that starts ticking down the moment you launch the game).

#25 Posted by Sterling (2315 posts) -

@nodima said:

Thankfully Drive Club PS+ Edition isn't what I have a Playstation Plus subscription for, nor has it ever factored into my decision to renew it. I would much prefer developers go this route more often in the future than the Timed Trials that were never super satisfying on PS3 (in large part because you had to download the whole game, which would take hours, and then you only have a single hour to play it that starts ticking down the moment you launch the game).

Ya I always thought those should have been like 3 or 4 hour trials. Some games have an hour long tutorial section. And you couldn't get into the actual game to check it out in time.

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#26 Edited by JasonR86 (9710 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac:

They spoke in vague terms dude. They may have misled. But lying would be if they said initially you'd get 20 tracks and then later said 10. 'Lie' suggests some sort of absolute based on indisputable proof. They used vague terms so they could mislead people but also not be held to any explicit figures (like a specific number of tracks).

I'm surprised you were expecting more considering how vague they were being.

#27 Posted by XCEagle (113 posts) -

@kidavenger said:

@spaceinsomniac said:

@kidavenger said:

Internet entitlement...

How far does a company have to go with broken promises before "entitlement" stops being an argument? If they said we'd be getting over 100 tracks, and it turned out we ended up with 2 tracks, would you consider voicing an objection in that situation to be entitlement?

They said one thing, we're getting another. If they never said "you're going to have all of the single player content", and people demanded that the PS Plus version include all the single player content, THAT would be entitlement. Holding a company responsible for what they claimed is not entitlement.

I don't use the term "corporate apologist" much, but...

I don't see that they have broken any promises at all

You honestly don't see "you're going to have all of the single player content in terms of events" and then only including part of the single player as a broken promise?

You also don't see "The only difference between the PS Plus edition and the boxed retail is that there's a slightly scaled down version of content" when you're talking about 80% of your game's content being gone as a broken promise?

It's fine that Sony is making a trial version of Drive Club available for PS Plus members, and I can understand Sony wanting to make that fact seem as attractive as possible, but this just crossed a line. Again, Sony said one thing, and we're getting another.

No they didn't. You assumed one thing and they are delivering another. I bolded what you glossed over. Saying "here's all single player content" is different than saying "here is all single player content, in terms of events". If they give you one of each race type appearing in the full game (which is what those 11 variants sound like) then the promise has been fulfilled.

#28 Edited by aurahack (2271 posts) -

You aren't being lied to, you're just reading an elaborated explanation of the free (can't stress that enough) content you are getting.

#29 Posted by Stackboy (503 posts) -

Being from Australia where we have significant internet bandwidth restrictions, I'd rather have the game on disc anyway.

#30 Posted by JasonR86 (9710 posts) -

@aurahack:

To be fair, it isn't free. You have to pay the PS+ subscription fee to gain access to it.

#31 Posted by ChoboBot (155 posts) -

I agree with other peoples comments. I don't remember Sony promising the full version of the game just a cut down version for free.

#32 Posted by RazielCuts (2955 posts) -

Sounds about right.

#33 Posted by falserelic (5437 posts) -

I'm not huge on racing games to begin with, o well.

#34 Posted by FriendlyPhoenix (416 posts) -

I don't get what you're pissed about. They originally spoke in very vague terminology and you took that to mean more than it actually did. That isn't anyone's fault but your own.

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#35 Posted by TruthTellah (9122 posts) -

Sounds like they somewhat exaggerated a year ago how much content is in their free version. It's pretty lame, but it's not exactly surprising. Who honestly expected -most- of the game's content to be free? It always sounded like they were being purposefully vague about it for the very reason that it is only a taste of the full game.

#36 Posted by MooseyMcMan (11032 posts) -

Frankly, I'm surprised they still have a free version of it coming, after all this. I wouldn't have blamed them for scrapping that altogether.

Besides, if you enjoy the free version, just pay for the whole thing. I mean, if you're spending a lot of time with it, and enjoying it, what's the harm in helping to support it?

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#37 Posted by Lemonhead (62 posts) -

They said Watch Dogs would be out last year, it's coming out this year instead.

They told us we would get 2 hobbit films, now we're getting 3 instead.

They told us the last Hobbit film would be called There and back again, and now they changed their minds.

Are Ubisoft liars?

Is Peter Jackson? twice?

Plans change, roll with it.

#38 Edited by Crembaw (411 posts) -

I assumed that the plan would change the moment that Drive Club got that huge delay.

Stuff happens, unfortunately. Maybe they realized they wouldn't be able to recoup the costs unless they managed to scrape out a few more sales, so they made it into more of a demo or preview. And yeah, it would have been super nice to get access to the whole game for free for a month, but to be honest with all the things that are now accessible to me thanks to PS+, I'm less inclined to be bummed about one change in the sales strategy of a single game whose production history seems to have been troubled.

#39 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3852 posts) -

@bisonhero said:

I feel like people would be angrier about this slight change in wording, except nobody is paying attention to Drive Club, nor will they ever.

I guess this mythical person that largely bought a PS4 and PS+ for this sweet Drive Club promotion will be sad, but they were already sad months ago when it got delayed.

Right.

Don't get so worked up about things this far ahead of when they come out. And don't expect everything to be free, either. But GAF, of course.

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#40 Edited by SomeDeliCook (2341 posts) -

For one, I don't care about racing games

For two, I've gotten a good number of free games on PS4 for having PS Plus, games I wouldn't have give a second chance or even heard of.

For three, I haven't gotten a single thing for my Xbox One besides the two games I bought for it when it launched. Sony has given way more out so it's okay if one thing they promised may or may not have as much free content

#41 Posted by SpaceInsomniac (3744 posts) -

@jasonr86 said:

@spaceinsomniac:

They spoke in vague terms dude. They may have misled. But lying would be if they said initially you'd get 20 tracks and then later said 10. 'Lie' suggests some sort of absolute based on indisputable proof. They used vague terms so they could mislead people but also not be held to any explicit figures (like a specific number of tracks).

Well you have to be vague when you're not sure of the amount of content a final product will include, and I get that. But I also think people are giving them a pass for the use of 'vague terms' that wouldn't be acceptable in other situations. "Slightly"--as it's being used here--is a vague terms for less, but it's never associated with a significantly less. "A few" is a specific term for three, or a vague term for a small number.

If Netflix announced that the cost of your subscription would be slightly increased, and then the cost went up by 80%, would you consider that a lie?

If your workplace was going through restructuring and announced that everyone would get to keep their jobs except for a few employees, and then they fired 80% of their employees, would you consider that a lie?

And if you answered yes to either / both of these examples, why is it any different here?

Vague or not, there's a point when even non-specific and not entirely defined terminology becomes a lie.

#42 Posted by JasonR86 (9710 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac:

We will just have to agree to disagree because I simply don't see it that way.

#43 Edited by Haruko (299 posts) -

#44 Posted by believer258 (11914 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac: I might be wrong, but didn't they say a long time ago that the PS+ version of Driveclub would be stripped down? I seem to remember hearing about this around the time that Driveclub was delayed.

Also I don't really care. A large portion of a game is given, on release, to people that pay money for your subscription service and bought your console in the first year? Still sounds like a nice gesture to me.

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#45 Edited by RockyRaccoon37 (450 posts) -

#46 Posted by ThatOneDudeNick (587 posts) -

It was delayed nearly a year. Plans change. *shrug*

I'll get enough from the free version to know whether or not I want to buy it. I'm surprised they're still even doing a free version at all.

#47 Posted by Angouri (231 posts) -

Because Sony wants to sell copies of Driveclub, they've already sold you on PS+. It always sounded too-good-to-be-true to release a full AAA game to the IGC at the game's launch, and it turns out it was. I would much rather they not make Driveclub a PS+ game and fund some more incredible titles like Don't Starve and Transistor for PS4.

If this is bugging you so much, Grid 2 was on PS+ for PS3. Go and enjoy a full game there.

#48 Edited by mrfluke (5160 posts) -

meh, i see why your mad, but its not exactly a dealbreaker, whats gonna be the dealbreaker is if driveclub is boring.

#49 Edited by BaconHound (69 posts) -

@spaceinsomniac: I don't have a PS4 or PS+, and I never had any interest in this game, but I agree with you that this is a pretty shady move. I'm kind of scratching my head at all these replies that say this is no big deal.

Assuming the quotes in your original post are accurate, I think "you're going to have all of the single player content in terms of events" is anything but vague. To turn around and change that to 10 cars and 5 tracks (fuck variants) is pretty shitty. The idea that it's not a demo because "you get access to all of the game’s features online and offline" is laughable. Any well-made demo will give access to all the features. Similarly, most demos would only let you select from 10 cars. I'll admit that 5 tracks would be generous for a demo.

I have no stake in this and I normally wouldn't even reply to this thread, but like you, I'm a little surprised at the response you received.

#50 Posted by TruthTellah (9122 posts) -

@mrfluke said:

meh, i see why your mad, but its not exactly a dealbreaker, whats gonna be the dealbreaker is if driveclub is boring.

Yeah, what exactly would be a dealbreaker on a mostly free game? I guess someone could just decide to not play it, but that isn't exactly making them less money for someone to do.