Ok, so in countless RPGs, you must craft a party. I think that you can get to know others depending on who they choose. Do they play with the weird characters, the cool characters, the most effective characters? So, in a variety of RPGs, tell us all your final/favorite parties. Ready... Go!
It's PARTY time!
"I have a few of those games, but to be honest, I tend on the OCD side and try to use everyone and get everyone's stats up as far as possible. That accounted for the 1000 hours I spent on Final Fantasy Tactics Advance -- sad but true :) :("You bested me by 750 hours. great game though...
Let's see...I haven't played that many (and I can't remember character's names at all) but...
SMT: Persona 3: Me, Yukari , Mitsuru, whatever the dog's name is...
Mass Effect: Shepard, Garrus, Liari
...yep, that's it. ( I don't remember my parties for KOTOR 1/2, Jade Empire exactly ...or oldies like Breath of Fire IV)
FF4: Cecil, Kain, Rosa, Rydia/Tellah
FF5: Bartz, Lenna, Galuf, Krile
FF6: Terra, Locke, Setzer, Edgar
FF7: Cloud, Tifa, Aeris/Cid
FF8: Squall, Riona, Irivine/Zell/Quistis
FF9: Zidane, Dagger, Vivi, Freya/Amarant/Steine
FF10: Tidus, Yuna, Lulu/Auron/Wakka
FF11: set parties are the way to go
FF12: Vaan, Ashe, Fran
Crono Trigger: Crono, Marle, Robo
Crono Cross: ...there were a crap load of characters... only ones I remembered using was Serge and Kid
Legend of Dragoon: Dart, Shana, Rose
...I'm starting to get tired of listing but there are a couple more games I want to list first..
KoTOR: Revan, Bastila, Zaalbar/Jolee
Mass Effect: Shepard, Ash, Garrus
Let's see, what I can remember:
FF VI: Everyone except the moogle, the Yeti and the kid with a brush.
FF VII: Everyone
FF VIII: Squal, Zell and Rinoa
FF IX: Everyone except Quina.
FF X: Everyone
FF XII: Everyone, which doesn't count since none of them have a personality.
Persona 3: Everyone except the dog.
Tales of Symphonia: Everyone.
Shadow Hearts: Yuri, Alice and the vampire dude.
Shadow Hearts Covenant: Everyone except for Lucia and Anastasia.
Shadow Hears From The New World: The main character, the native american girl, the native american man and the mexican dude who fights like in El Mariachi (I can't remember none of the character's names).
Xenosaga I: Everyone, except for MOMO.
Xenosaga II and 3: Everyone except for Ziggy.
Eternal Sonata: Everyone except for Salsa.
"JRPG's aren't RPG's."Please explain why.
"BiggerBomb said:"JRPG's aren't RPG's."Please explain why.Anyways, I also lost half of my life to FFTA. I beat it a few times and played through all of the side missions plenty, such a great game. I played FFTA2 a ton, doing every side mission as I went, then right in the middle just stopped. Don't know why."
Don't take that as a blind insult, by the way, I'm basically saying vegetables are not fruits. Savvy? Anyway, this is why:
The JRPG has a very distinct structure, that being a linear one, the core of which disqualifies it from being defined as an RPG. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I have played games of the genre - FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, & KH. Keep in mind, I didn't finish these games because I did not like them, but I gave them all fair chances. Each and everyone of these games, is linear to a degree that approaches the "on rails" formula. You walk from A-B, all the while random monster encounters spring up. You have no control (keep that word in mind) over when these encounters come to pass. During each of the fights, the combat is conducted via turn-based system (I say that a fair description of the genre is JTBG.) You do not control the action, you essentially press one or two buttons and all is determined by a statistical influence upon the roll of a die. Rinse & Repeat.
Throughout your journey, you inevitably come across NPCs who will join your party. You have no ability to determine the relationship your protagonist has with these allies. You will invariably encounter enemies, neutralities, etc. You have no say in your relationship with any of these factions. You do not choose a character, that character is given to you. You play no part in either your character's aesthetic progression nor do you act as your character's voice.
Your character has a voice, your character has a story, your character has friends, your character has enemies, your character may progress, and your character's adventure will unfold. You, however, cut along the dotted line. You are not given opportunities to speak, create, or decide. You are not given opportunities to roleplay.
If you think the above does not disqualify the genre from "RPG-ness," I would like to hear a counter argument.
/end
"Wow Bioware addict :PJRPG's aren't RPG's.
"
Anyway, I'll list my favorite mix of RPG parties:
KOTOR - Bastila & Canderous/Bastila & Jolee Bindo
KOTOR II - Kreia & Visas/Kreia & Mandalore
Mass Effect - Garrus & Wrex
Bioware should be very happy to have fans like you
"BiggerBomb said:"Wow Bioware addict :PJRPG's aren't RPG's.
"
Anyway, I'll list my favorite mix of RPG parties:
KOTOR - Bastila & Canderous/Bastila & Jolee Bindo
KOTOR II - Kreia & Visas/Kreia & Mandalore
Mass Effect - Garrus & Wrex
Bioware should be very happy to have fans like you"
Apparently they're not, because KOTOR III is an MMO.
Pokemon- I have way too many variations and different intechangeable parties to list. My Elite Four party for Diamond consisted of: Empoleon, Golem, Staraptor, Dialga, Luxray and Alakazam. My second Hall of Fame record is Heatran, Alakazam, Empoleon, Staraptor, Banette and Metagross.
"daniel_beck_90 said:yeah that sucks"BiggerBomb said:"Wow Bioware addict :PJRPG's aren't RPG's.
"
Anyway, I'll list my favorite mix of RPG parties:
KOTOR - Bastila & Canderous/Bastila & Jolee Bindo
KOTOR II - Kreia & Visas/Kreia & Mandalore
Mass Effect - Garrus & Wrex
Bioware should be very happy to have fans like you"
Apparently they're not, because KOTOR III is an MMO."
"Pokemon- I have way too many variations and different intechangeable parties to list. My Elite Four party for Diamond consisted of: Empoleon, Golem, Staraptor, Dialga, Luxray and Alakazam. My second Hall of Fame record is Heatran, Alakazam, Empoleon, Staraptor, Banette and Metagross."Holy crap, reading that made me want to play some Pokemon. *sigh*
FF1: Warrior, Warrior, Black Mage, White Mage
FF7: Cloud, Yuffie, Red XII
FF8: Squall, Rinoa, Irvine
FF9: Zidaine, Vivi, Steiner, Garnet
FF10: Auron, Lulu, Yuna + Tidus
Persona 3: Character, Mitsuru, Akihiko, Yukari (best party EVAR)
Chrono Trigger: Chrono, Magus, Robo
Tales of Eternia: Reid, Meredy, Max, Keele
Tales of Symphonia: Lloyd, Raine, Genis, Zelos
I'm sure I've had more, but I can't remember them, whatever.
"BoG said:I have played quite a few SRPGS with this structure including tactics ogre,fire emblem, FFT, FFTA...ect all have the linear process, the npcs joining your party with no real choice, on the story."BiggerBomb said:"JRPG's aren't RPG's."Please explain why.Anyways, I also lost half of my life to FFTA. I beat it a few times and played through all of the side missions plenty, such a great game. I played FFTA2 a ton, doing every side mission as I went, then right in the middle just stopped. Don't know why."
Don't take that as a blind insult, by the way, I'm basically saying vegetables are not fruits. Savvy? Anyway, this is why:
The JRPG has a very distinct structure, that being a linear one, the core of which disqualifies it from being defined as an RPG. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I have played games of the genre - FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, & KH. Keep in mind, I didn't finish these games because I did not like them, but I gave them all fair chances. Each and everyone of these games, is linear to a degree that approaches the "on rails" formula. You walk from A-B, all the while random monster encounters spring up. You have no control (keep that word in mind) over when these encounters come to pass. During each of the fights, the combat is conducted via turn-based system (I say that a fair description of the genre is JTBG.) You do not control the action, you essentially press one or two buttons and all is determined by a statistical influence upon the roll of a die. Rinse & Repeat.
Throughout your journey, you inevitably come across NPCs who will join your party. You have no ability to determine the relationship your protagonist has with these allies. You will invariably encounter enemies, neutralities, etc. You have no say in your relationship with any of these factions. You do not choose a character, that character is given to you. You play no part in either your character's aesthetic progression nor do you act as your character's voice.
Your character has a voice, your character has a story, your character has friends, your character has enemies, your character may progress, and your character's adventure will unfold. You, however, cut along the dotted line. You are not given opportunities to speak, create, or decide. You are not given opportunities to roleplay.
If you think the above does not disqualify the genre from "RPG-ness," I would like to hear a counter argument.
/end"
"BoG said:jRPGs are very much RPGs. Games as far back as 20 years ago were offering options and changing up the dynamics you mention there. Even so, that doesn't change that a player can effectively customize how they play the game in terms of individual play-styles, party members (most games let you choose from a large variety), used equipment, etc."BiggerBomb said:"JRPG's aren't RPG's."Please explain why.Anyways, I also lost half of my life to FFTA. I beat it a few times and played through all of the side missions plenty, such a great game. I played FFTA2 a ton, doing every side mission as I went, then right in the middle just stopped. Don't know why."
Don't take that as a blind insult, by the way, I'm basically saying vegetables are not fruits. Savvy? Anyway, this is why:
The JRPG has a very distinct structure, that being a linear one, the core of which disqualifies it from being defined as an RPG. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I have played games of the genre - FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, & KH. Keep in mind, I didn't finish these games because I did not like them, but I gave them all fair chances. Each and everyone of these games, is linear to a degree that approaches the "on rails" formula. You walk from A-B, all the while random monster encounters spring up. You have no control (keep that word in mind) over when these encounters come to pass. During each of the fights, the combat is conducted via turn-based system (I say that a fair description of the genre is JTBG.) You do not control the action, you essentially press one or two buttons and all is determined by a statistical influence upon the roll of a die. Rinse & Repeat.
Throughout your journey, you inevitably come across NPCs who will join your party. You have no ability to determine the relationship your protagonist has with these allies. You will invariably encounter enemies, neutralities, etc. You have no say in your relationship with any of these factions. You do not choose a character, that character is given to you. You play no part in either your character's aesthetic progression nor do you act as your character's voice.
Your character has a voice, your character has a story, your character has friends, your character has enemies, your character may progress, and your character's adventure will unfold. You, however, cut along the dotted line. You are not given opportunities to speak, create, or decide. You are not given opportunities to roleplay.
If you think the above does not disqualify the genre from "RPG-ness," I would like to hear a counter argument.
/end"
The argument you made would disqualify jRPGs from being wRPGs. That's all. They are still games in which you progress through a story playing as a character with defined traits that you are allowed to influence and altar. They still have distinct stories, variable combat, and some degree of choice (even if the traditional Japanese experience abhors it). Yes, they are linear in terms of progression, but many games in the jRPG genre still allow you to traverse the world that you have uncovered so far freely, to interact with NPCs freely, tackle dungeons how you want and in what order. There is nothing about jRPGs that really disqualifies them from the overall RPG genre at all. They are simply a different style.
You would also do well to remember that many of the first real RPGs were jRPGs. The genre probably would not exist in its current form (for any iteration, w, a, or j) without them.
BiggerBomb:
I am a roleplayer. One of those guys that meets with other guys and gals, equipped with maps, rules, pens and paper, to take on roles of adventurers and then act these out in the course of a series of semi-improvised quests and stories.
If I had to bring down "Role Playing Game" to it's essentials, to what something must have in order to be considered a Role Playing Game, I'd go with the "acting" part. Using your creativity, voice and manner to bring a fictional character to life, and to take an active part in telling the story.
No PC or console game can offer that. Some give you options to influence your characters looks, some develop a couple of story branches depending on whether you chose option A or B, and some just leave the main character blank so that you can try to imagine it's You who's the main character. Many get rid of a concept altogether and just try to put as many variables as possible into a world that is as large as possible.
Storytelling is often rather weak in comparison to "real" roleplaying, A) because it is largely predetermined and B) because it sacrifices storytelling techniques and audiovisual finesse in order to enhance some illusion of nonlinearity. Some games do that better than others, and often such an attempt at recreating a distant image of what Roleplaying is like can be very entertaining and engaging.
Now I could go about and say: Well, look at them videogamers and what they call "roleplaying", phhsh.
But if I broaden my definition, Role Playing is different from traditional "board" games in two aspects: One, the acting, and two, the importance of mathematics and strategy.
Of course, a good RPG doesn't need numbers or rules. I've had some fun with "newbie" groups that just enjoyed playing a character and imagining what that character does in adventurous situations. But then again, what distinguishes "RPG" from "Playing Pretend"? So this brings us to the rules and numbers. Well, so let's go ahaed and add "The use of complicated variables, mathematics and tactics in order to establish strategic contexts to establish a way for the player to interact and to combat in this world we create". Done right, this is what makes RPGs - especially combat - really, really fun.
We've already seen that videogames cannot possibly recreate the #1 important aspect of RPGs, the roleplaying, but the mathematics, now THATs where the computers shine.
Therefore, very early on, games were made that drew their appeal from the player not having to do all the calculations himself, but doing it for him. Gameplay elements - especially combat - were based on the mathematical rules of Pen&Paper Role Playing Games, and people seemed to enjoy that very much. They called that "RPG" then for lack of a better world, because what they were doing reminded them of what they were doing in "real" RPGs, despite the fact that no actual role playing took place.
These "RPG" type of games became very popular! All over the world developers made games with mathematics based combat and gameplay mechanics. As it is with these things, different peope focused on different things. Some tried to mimic the way in which a "real" role playing character is created, and build a synthetic, "nonlinear" world, because they thought the illusion of freedom was more important than a well told story. Some wanted to tell a proper story with all the fancy storytelling mechanics we've come to know from the movies, while retaining the mathematical world. Getting rid of the "Illusion" mechanics seemed like a reasonable sacrifice.
Both are interesting approaches, and I think it's great that now, after computer programmers many years ago thought it would be a great idea to copy some inner workings of "real" Role Playing Games in order to create more complex and interesting story-driven games, there's such a great variety of approaches and Subgenres to this idea. It's not Role Playing, but it's RPG, a term coined by the video and computer game industry as a superordinate concept for a whole variety of games whose single common denominator is mathematics based gameplay.
And now you hop along and spam "JRPGs are not RPGs!!!1" into every thread. This is me, with my D&D Master's Guide Book in my hand, stroking my beard, looking at you with a hint of amusement in my eyes.
"We've already seen that videogames cannot possibly recreate the #1 important aspect of RPGs, the roleplaying, but the mathematics, now THATs where the computers shine."Legions of World of Warcraft fans, hordes of obsessed wRPG fans, and many other people would disagree with that statement.
"BiggerBomb said:"BoG said:jRPGs are very much RPGs. Games as far back as 20 years ago were offering options and changing up the dynamics you mention there. Even so, that doesn't change that a player can effectively customize how they play the game in terms of individual play-styles, party members (most games let you choose from a large variety), used equipment, etc."BiggerBomb said:"JRPG's aren't RPG's."Please explain why.Anyways, I also lost half of my life to FFTA. I beat it a few times and played through all of the side missions plenty, such a great game. I played FFTA2 a ton, doing every side mission as I went, then right in the middle just stopped. Don't know why."
Don't take that as a blind insult, by the way, I'm basically saying vegetables are not fruits. Savvy? Anyway, this is why:
The JRPG has a very distinct structure, that being a linear one, the core of which disqualifies it from being defined as an RPG. I'm not talking out of my ass here, I have played games of the genre - FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, & KH. Keep in mind, I didn't finish these games because I did not like them, but I gave them all fair chances. Each and everyone of these games, is linear to a degree that approaches the "on rails" formula. You walk from A-B, all the while random monster encounters spring up. You have no control (keep that word in mind) over when these encounters come to pass. During each of the fights, the combat is conducted via turn-based system (I say that a fair description of the genre is JTBG.) You do not control the action, you essentially press one or two buttons and all is determined by a statistical influence upon the roll of a die. Rinse & Repeat.
Throughout your journey, you inevitably come across NPCs who will join your party. You have no ability to determine the relationship your protagonist has with these allies. You will invariably encounter enemies, neutralities, etc. You have no say in your relationship with any of these factions. You do not choose a character, that character is given to you. You play no part in either your character's aesthetic progression nor do you act as your character's voice.
Your character has a voice, your character has a story, your character has friends, your character has enemies, your character may progress, and your character's adventure will unfold. You, however, cut along the dotted line. You are not given opportunities to speak, create, or decide. You are not given opportunities to roleplay.
If you think the above does not disqualify the genre from "RPG-ness," I would like to hear a counter argument.
/end"
The argument you made would disqualify jRPGs from being wRPGs. That's all. They are still games in which you progress through a story playing as a character with defined traits that you are allowed to influence and altar. They still have distinct stories, variable combat, and some degree of choice (even if the traditional Japanese experience abhors it). Yes, they are linear in terms of progression, but many games in the jRPG genre still allow you to traverse the world that you have uncovered so far freely, to interact with NPCs freely, tackle dungeons how you want and in what order. There is nothing about jRPGs that really disqualifies them from the overall RPG genre at all. They are simply a different style.
You would also do well to remember that many of the first real RPGs were jRPGs. The genre probably would not exist in its current form (for any iteration, w, a, or j) without them."
With what you have just said, in describing what makes a JRPG an RPG, how is such a distinction differentiate from a game such as God of War? God of War has a distinct story, variable combat, and you choose the areas (abilities) you want to specialize in. What about Grand Theft Auto? You can explore, tackle tasks in the order you see fit, and customize your gameplay. This also applies to Far Cry 2, upgrading your weapons and safehouse to suit your playstyle. Are these games RPGs too?
"Have you ever actually read up on the definitions of all the genres you're attempting to smash together? I suggest you do that.
With what you have just said, in describing what makes a JRPG an RPG, how is such a distinction differentiate from a game such as God of War? God of War has a distinct story, variable combat, and you choose the areas (abilities) you want to specialize in. What about Grand Theft Auto? You can explore, tackle tasks in the order you see fit, and customize your gameplay. This also applies to Far Cry 2, upgrading your weapons and safehouse to suit your playstyle. Are these games RPGs too?"
"Ok, so in countless RPGs, you must craft a party. I think that you can get to know others depending on who they choose. Do they play with the weird characters, the cool characters, the most effective characters? So, in a variety of RPGs, tell us all your final/favorite parties. Ready... Go!Final Fantasy IV - Cecil, Kain, Rosa, Tellah, Cid (Endgame of GBA)Final Fantasy V - Samurai/Knight (Bartz), Mime with Time/White magic (Lenna), Mime with White/Black/Dualcast Magic (Krile), Hunter/Mystic Knight (Faris); In the GBA version, I used Bartz and Faris as GladiatorsFinal Fantasy VI - Locke, Celes, Shadow, EdgarFinal Fantasy VII - Cloud, Tifa, Red XIIIFinal Fantasy VIII - Squall, Quistis, IrvineFinal Fantasy IX - Zidane, Dagger, Vivi, and either Amarant or SteinerFinal Fantasy X - The only characters who didn't suck (they all do, so I had to sell the game)Final Fantasy XII - Vaan, Balthier, AsheSMT: Persona 3 - Me, Mitsuru, Akihiko, YukariChrono Trigger - Crono, Robo, FrogMass Effect - Shepard, Garrus, AshleyFront Mission - Everyone but Bobby, J.J., and MollyTales of Symphonia - Lloyd, Colette, Sheena, ZelosSeiken Densetsu 3 - Duran, Angela, Lise"
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment