JRPG as a genre title is obsolete.

  • 66 results
  • 1
  • 2
Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#1  Edited By upwarDBound

JRPG as a genre title is mostly useless these days. It was useful at a point in time when the majority of RPGs coming from Japan shared a similar design motif, but with the success of games like Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma it is quickly becoming obsolete. Now the term leads to confusion. These games don't share much in common at all with what many know as JRPGs. That label to many people including myself implies several distinct qualities.

The game will most likely have anime inspired graphics. The main focus of the game is the story. The main character (usually young) will eventually be joined by a varied cast of characters most with at least a partially developed backstory. Character growth over the course of the game. The theme of good versus evil. A grand story arc with a definitive end.

Series in this genre include: Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Phantasy Star, Grandia, Tales, etc.

Not included: Etrian Odyssey, Dark/Demon's Souls, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma

Note I didn't say anything about combat or setting as these aspects are quite varied in this particular genre. Note as well that I am aware that not all these games share all of these qualities but most of them do.

The only real trouble with this is that these games don't have a unique label to identify them. Many know them only as jrpgs. I've heard the term classic rpg but there are a host of problems with that designation. There must be a better way of labeling these kinds of games as JRPG just isn't cutting it anymore.

Avatar image for aetheldod
Aetheldod

3914

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#2  Edited By Aetheldod

Altho I understand what you are saying I still think jrpg applies but only because those games are indeed JAPANESE developed rpgs ..... but what else could we call them? I think the best one we had was turn based , but that rarely applies now days becouse most of the have active turns , also there must be turn based rpgs made in the west. Quite a task to come up with a new nomenclature for those :/

Avatar image for mwng
mwng

1041

Forum Posts

8001

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#3  Edited By mwng

RPG from Japan. JRPG.
 
What you're describing seems to be a subset of JRPG?

Avatar image for scrawnto
Scrawnto

2558

Forum Posts

83

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#4  Edited By Scrawnto

The thing is, JRPG may not accurately describe the majority of RPGs from Japan, but I knew exactly what kind of game you mean when you say it, so it seems that the label is cutting it just fine as a means of communicating a concept. That is the primary purpose of language, is it not?

Also, it is the kind of RPG that originated in Japan. If a restaurant in Italy starts serving bratwurst and sauerkraut, Italian cuisine does not cease to apply to a certain kind of food.

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#5  Edited By upwarDBound

@rebgav:

Except that many people tend to use JRPG as a regional label rather than as a genre. Thus they call games like Dark Souls a JRPG confusing what that genre actually entails.

Avatar image for mcghee
McGhee

6128

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#6  Edited By McGhee

Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma aren't JRPGs. They are RPGs made in Japan.

There is a difference.

Avatar image for s-a-n-jr
s-a-n-JR

3256

Forum Posts

2993

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 15

#7  Edited By s-a-n-JR

YOUR BUTT IS OBSOLETE.

...

But yeah I see what you mean actually.

Avatar image for sooty
Sooty

8193

Forum Posts

306

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 3

#8  Edited By Sooty

Most genre titles are useless to be honest, at least the more specific ones.

Avatar image for jeff
jeff

6357

Forum Posts

107208

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 20

#10  Edited By jeff

@McGhee said:

Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma aren't JRPGs. They are RPGs made in Japan.

There is a difference.

And by "RPGs made in Japan" you mean "Action Adventure games made in Japan." If we're feeling generous, maybe "Action RPGs made in Japan?"

Avatar image for mcghee
McGhee

6128

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#11  Edited By McGhee

@Jeff said:

@McGhee said:

Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma aren't JRPGs. They are RPGs made in Japan.

There is a difference.

And by "RPGs made in Japan" you mean "Action Adventure games made in Japan." If we're feeling generous, maybe "Action RPGs made in Japan?"

Yes, I thought about saying "Action RPGs made in Japan" but then I feel my comment would have lost some of its snarkiness. Can't have that happening.

Avatar image for animasta
Animasta

14948

Forum Posts

3563

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 5

#12  Edited By Animasta

your 'definition' of a JRPG is also a little odd too. I'm pretty sure there's a story in Etrian Odyssey that is technically the focus, as well as a varied cast of characters, anime inspired, most of them are pretty young...

Avatar image for metric_outlaw
Metric_Outlaw

1202

Forum Posts

261

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 3

User Lists: 8

#13  Edited By Metric_Outlaw

JRPGs are super useful when describing games like Pokemon or Final Fantasy. While I agree with you that the term I'd overused I hardly think its obsolete.

Avatar image for iodine
Iodine

691

Forum Posts

436

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#14  Edited By Iodine

Boiling down pretty much any decent to good game to one short acronym/abbreviation is pretty obsolete and pointless.

Avatar image for dagbiker
Dagbiker

7057

Forum Posts

1019

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 16

#15  Edited By Dagbiker

@Scrawnto said:

The thing is, JRPG may not accurately describe the majority of RPGs from Japan, but I knew exactly what kind of game you mean when you say it, so it seems that the label is cutting it just fine as a means of communicating a concept. That is the primary purpose of language, is it not?

Also, it is the kind of RPG that originated in Japan. If a restaurant in Italy starts serving bratwurst and sauerkraut, Italian cuisine does not cease to apply to a certain kind of food.

This, language is very rarely decided, and agreed upon by every one.

Avatar image for jasonr86
JasonR86

10468

Forum Posts

449

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 17

User Lists: 5

#16  Edited By JasonR86

How about genres for everything is obsolete?

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#17  Edited By upwarDBound

@rebgav:

If genre labels are not a useful tool to describe the content of a game, why do they exist then? Genres are a shorthand of letting a prospective player know what type of game they are getting into without having to research it. Subgenres narrow it down further.

Avatar image for turambar
Turambar

8283

Forum Posts

114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#18  Edited By Turambar

How is Etrian Odyssey not a JRPG?

Avatar image for iodine
Iodine

691

Forum Posts

436

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#19  Edited By Iodine

@rebgav said:

@Jeff said:

@McGhee said:

Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma aren't JRPGs. They are RPGs made in Japan.

There is a difference.

And by "RPGs made in Japan" you mean "Action Adventure games made in Japan." If we're feeling generous, maybe "Action RPGs made in Japan?"

Do the Japanese just consider those games "adventure games," and if so does that make Skyrim a Western Adventure Game? Red Dead Redemption would then be a Western Western Action Adventure Game.

Including DLC I believe the proper grouping would make it into a Western-Western-Action Adventure-Surivival Horror-Hunting-Racing-Gambling-Sandbox-multigenerational-historically influenced-sleep simulating-game

Avatar image for a_talking_donkey
A_Talking_Donkey

264

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#20  Edited By A_Talking_Donkey

I fail to see how Etrian Odyssey isn't a JRPG by the definition given in the OP. I also don't think anime inspired graphics has much to do with it at all considering Final Fantasy started off trying to mimic western stories and art style.

Avatar image for enigma777
Enigma777

6285

Forum Posts

696

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 8

#21  Edited By Enigma777

I do feel like labeling games based on where they originated in this day and age is a bit silly. He'll AC3 is being made, in what, 8 different countries?

Avatar image for cloudenvy
Cloudenvy

5896

Forum Posts

8

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#23  Edited By Cloudenvy

Genres are broken!

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#24  Edited By upwarDBound

@Turambar: @Animasta:

The characters in Etrian Odyssey are classes with no personalities. The content of the game is exploring large labyrinths and dealing with tough enemy encounters. Story is not the focus. There is no main character development. It is a dungeon crawler in the vein of Wizardry and its ilk.

Avatar image for chrissedoff
chrissedoff

2387

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#25  Edited By chrissedoff

No, it's still as useful as ever. Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma aren't JRPGs.

Avatar image for warlordpayne
WarlordPayne

823

Forum Posts

1

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#26  Edited By WarlordPayne

Monster Hunter isn't in any way an RPG, it's a straight up action game, and as people have said Etrian Odyssey is a JRPG and Demon's/Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma are action RPGs at best if not action adventure games.

Avatar image for turambar
Turambar

8283

Forum Posts

114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#27  Edited By Turambar

@upwarDBound said:

@Turambar: @Animasta:

The characters in Etrian Odyssey are classes with no personalities. The content of the game is exploring large labyrinths and dealing with tough enemy encounters. Story is not the focus. There is no main character development. It is a dungeon crawler in the vein of Wizardry and its ilk.

Final Fantasy I.

Avatar image for apathylad
apathylad

3235

Forum Posts

1150

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: -1

User Lists: 7

#28  Edited By apathylad

So do you guys think the mechanics define what makes a JRPG? Or the art style?

It depends on what your definition of a JRPG is, but I still consider the Souls games to be JRPGs, or at least Action RPGs. They still have loot and stat options that are more in-depth than something like Zelda, which I feel falls under the Action-Adventure category. And what about Xenoblade? The game definitely has anime-like characters, but it plays more like a single-player MMORPG.

Avatar image for a_talking_donkey
A_Talking_Donkey

264

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#29  Edited By A_Talking_Donkey

@rebgav said:

@upwarDBound: They were probably quite useful when there were fewer types of games and fewer historical examples of each genre. Distinguishing a platformer from a racing game requires relatively little nuance, a big broad label will do the job. Broad categorization just becomes less useful as more games defy traditional genre definitions. While your reaction to that could be to define more and more labels until every new hybrid has its own bespoke genre, it seems to me that it's probably simplest and sanest to just describe a game in plain language and using terminology appropriate to your audience.

What if your audience identifies with genre labels? Would that mean that the simplest and sanest thing to do is to not take your advice?

Avatar image for tobbrobb
TobbRobb

6616

Forum Posts

49

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#30  Edited By TobbRobb

I only use in genres in the way that, if someone can't specifically mark a genre for a game. I'm more likely to enjoy it. Clearcut genrecases are usually less interesting.

Avatar image for rollingzeppelin
rollingzeppelin

2429

Forum Posts

8

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#31  Edited By rollingzeppelin

I have a pretty good idea what a JRPG entails. I would never refer to a game like dark souls or anything that deviates too far from a FF style game a JRPG. I don't recall any game critics referring to the games that way either. Like RTS or TBS or FPS, JRPG refers to a style of game not the geographical location in which it's made + RPG.

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#32  Edited By upwarDBound

@Turambar said:

@upwarDBound said:

@Turambar: @Animasta:

The characters in Etrian Odyssey are classes with no personalities. The content of the game is exploring large labyrinths and dealing with tough enemy encounters. Story is not the focus. There is no main character development. It is a dungeon crawler in the vein of Wizardry and its ilk.

Final Fantasy I.

Which came out in the formative stages of the genre and was more akin to Dragon Quest and Ultima than Wizardry. The genre wasn't fully established until Final Fantasy II (not IV) in my opinion.

Avatar image for turambar
Turambar

8283

Forum Posts

114

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#33  Edited By Turambar

@upwarDBound said:

@Turambar said:

@upwarDBound said:

@Turambar: @Animasta:

The characters in Etrian Odyssey are classes with no personalities. The content of the game is exploring large labyrinths and dealing with tough enemy encounters. Story is not the focus. There is no main character development. It is a dungeon crawler in the vein of Wizardry and its ilk.

Final Fantasy I.

Which came out in the formative stages of the genre and was more akin to Dragon Quest and Ultima than Wizardry. The genre wasn't fully established until Final Fantasy II (not IV) in my opinion.

Final Fantasy III

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

#34  Edited By Hailinel
@upwarDBound Aww, you're so cute with your gross misconceptions!
Avatar image for thesoutherndandy
TheSouthernDandy

4157

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#35  Edited By TheSouthernDandy
@RollingZeppelin

I have a pretty good idea what a JRPG entails. I would never refer to a game like dark souls or anything that deviates too far from a FF style game a JRPG. I don't recall any game critics referring to the games that way either. Like RTS or TBS or FPS, JRPG refers to a style of game not the geographical location in which it's made + RPG.

Avatar image for justin258
Justin258

16684

Forum Posts

26

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 11

User Lists: 8

#36  Edited By Justin258

@Turambar said:

@upwarDBound said:

@Turambar said:

@upwarDBound said:

@Turambar: @Animasta:

The characters in Etrian Odyssey are classes with no personalities. The content of the game is exploring large labyrinths and dealing with tough enemy encounters. Story is not the focus. There is no main character development. It is a dungeon crawler in the vein of Wizardry and its ilk.

Final Fantasy I.

Which came out in the formative stages of the genre and was more akin to Dragon Quest and Ultima than Wizardry. The genre wasn't fully established until Final Fantasy II (not IV) in my opinion.

Final Fantasy III

I can't really speak for someone else's knowledge, but I'd bet that could come up with a fair number of JRPG's made after FFIV that don't necessarily focus on story. Games within certain genres can vary in focus, see: Half-Life vs Modern Warfare. Both undeniably FPS games, both vastly different.

JRPG is a genre. Yes, it stands for "Japanese RPG", but we have developed certain connotations with it like "turn based combat", "young characters", "anime art", and "a good vs evil story with a grand scale". No one in their right mind would refer to Dark Souls as a JRPG because, while both Japanese and an RPG of sorts, it doesn't fit the genre conventions very well. It's like calling Portal a first person shooter - you're in first person, and you're shooting something, but calling it a first person shooter is simply wrong and does not at all convey anything close to what the game actually is. Dark Souls is an action RPG that was made in Japan, and Portal is a first person puzzle game.

Avatar image for project343
project343

2897

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 16

#37  Edited By project343

@upwarDBound said:

The game will most likely have anime inspired graphics. The main focus of the game is the story. The main character (usually young) will eventually be joined by a varied cast of characters most with at least a partially developed backstory. Character growth over the course of the game. The theme of good versus evil. A grand story arc with a definitive end.

So the broadening of genres makes them irrelevant? JRPGs are pushing away from the tried and true and are starting to merge other ideologies into their core design framework. WRPGs have been moving more and more toward action combat systems, and at the same time, all other genres are incorporating RPG elements--does that make the WRPG an irrelevant genre?

Also, if you put Dragon's Dogma and the Souls series next to it's WRPG counterparts, I sure as fucking hell hope the average hardcore gamer could tell which of the two locations those games come from. Both games ooze Japanese design in their animation style, effects, UI, item systems, and models. There is something distinctly Japanese about those two series that marks it as a wholly different and unique experience from their WRPG counterparts.

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#38  Edited By upwarDBound

@Hailinel said:

@upwarDBound Aww, you're so cute with your gross misconceptions!

What do you mean exactly? How I define what people know as JRPGs? Yes that may be different to some people. I have my own classification as others have theirs. If you think I'm attacking the genre I'm not. I'm not trying to discredit Japan either. So please elucidate these "gross misconceptions" as you have so tactfully put it.

Avatar image for fancysoapsman
FancySoapsMan

5984

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#39  Edited By FancySoapsMan

I still consider Demons/Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma to be JRPGs...

Avatar image for hailinel
Hailinel

25785

Forum Posts

219681

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 28

#40  Edited By Hailinel
@upwarDBound

@Hailinel said:

@upwarDBound Aww, you're so cute with your gross misconceptions!

What do you mean exactly? How I define what people know as JRPGs? Yes that may be different to some people. I have my own classification as others have theirs. If you think I'm attacking the genre I'm not. I'm not trying to discredit Japan either. So please elucidate these "gross misconceptions" as you have so tactfully put it.

Japanese RPGs come in as many flavors as western RPGs. And while JRPGs may lean toward certain designs more than others, technically, if it was made in Japan, it's a JRPG. Simple as that.
Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#41  Edited By upwarDBound

@project343:

WRPG is best used as a regional and setting label but at its core is also flawed. When you have 1st person turnbased/action dungeon crawling games, isometric hackfests, isometric strategy, 1st/3rd person action, roguelike, shooter/rpg it becomes really difficult to use that as a genre label.

Also I never made any insinuation that the Souls games nor Dragon's Dogma were anything but Japanese. I was making the argument that they do not at all resemble what a lot of people think about when they hear the term JRPG. Read some of the responses in this thread for proof of that.

Avatar image for project343
project343

2897

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 16

#42  Edited By project343

@upwarDBound said:

they do not at all resemble what a lot of people think about when they hear the term JRPG

So this whole this is just a subjective mess. Because those two games reek of JRPG when I think about the genre shenanigans.

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#43  Edited By upwarDBound

@Hailinel: You're right Hailinel, they do. I was referring to specific qualities in certain titles that set them apart. It seems you use JRPG in a regional sense which is fine with me. Note the title of my thread is JRPG as a genre title is obsolete.

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#44  Edited By upwarDBound

@project343:

Really? I'm playing DD right now and it reminds me of Gothic more than any jrpg. If it involves the ending don't spoil it for me as I haven't beaten it yet. I'll be honest and admit that I haven't yet played Dark Souls yet but I did play Demon's Souls and didn't catch any jrpgness in that one either.

But I'm willing to hear out your reasoning.

Avatar image for animasta
Animasta

14948

Forum Posts

3563

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 4

User Lists: 5

#45  Edited By Animasta

Also, from your list, the only thing Dragon Age doesn't have is anime inspired graphics.

How about we just say JRPG's are story based games without a lot of choices and leave it at that

Avatar image for project343
project343

2897

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 16

#46  Edited By project343

@upwarDBound: There is a distinct commitment to the animation that is very different from traditional WRPG jank. I think it mostly has to do with the quality and styling of the animation: WRPGs just look awkward and bad, JRPGs are exaggerated and beautiful, but go really heavy with animation commitment. The items (both aesthetically and in terms of the UI) is very reminiscent of more grim Japanese games with inventories--RE4/5 specifically come to mind. The game is very 'systems' focused; WRPGs have tried and true numbers, yes, but with Dragon's Dogma there are very distinctly different 'systems' that are very prominent and advertised (pawn system, vocation system). All the mobs in the game are obviously taken (in concept) from WRPG tropes, but have a very distinct Japanese hand behind them--particularly with regards to their animation.

The narrative is also very Japanese when it comes around (overly dramatic, hits you over the head, emphasis on forcing convoluted world down your throat), as is the voice acting (it all sounds like a typical anime cast).

I think that was really what I enjoyed the most about Dragon's Dogma. It was like: oh fuck, the Japanese tried to do Oblivion... I fucking love Oblivion, and this is so different!

Avatar image for upwardbound
upwarDBound

658

Forum Posts

2

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#47  Edited By upwarDBound

@Animasta:

Hmmm, you know you're right. They tried to rectify that with the sequel though.

@project343:

I agree with you that the game certainly bears a Japanese feel but not so much that it reminds me of jrpgs. I think maybe it just reminds you of a lot of Capcom games. Same company after all.

Avatar image for thephantomstranger
ThePhantomStranger

569

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Might be a good time to take a look at this extra credits trilogy again...

I'd try to contribute my own opinion but I'm pretty sure 70% of GiantBombers are either way more experienced with Japan or obsessed with jrpgs, whatever those are, or both.

25% of me is really confused though...

Avatar image for falconpunch
falconpunch

181

Forum Posts

133

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#49  Edited By falconpunch

I'm not even sure what an RPG does and does not include at this point

Avatar image for kingbroly
KingBroly

1699

Forum Posts

6628

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 9

User Lists: 13

#50  Edited By KingBroly

Xenoblade Chronicles

The best JRPG this generation. It takes a lot of what Final Fantasy XII did wrong, fixes it, and refines the good parts to make them even better. Sure, the game doesn't have the full production budget of a Final Fantasy, but the game is probably one of the best JRPG's of all time, yet it goes largely ignored when it shouldn't.