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Posted by FLStyle (4768 posts) -

Disclaimer: I'm going with the assumption that we all agree that the actions of Aris on the Team Tekken half of Cross Assault was completely wrong and that if you have an opinion on the matter that you want to discuss you have 2 articles by Patrick and various additional articles by many video game journalism websites in which to do so.

So what I'm trying to do with this blog is give an accurate representation of what the Fighting Game Community is all about. Unintentionally or not, coverage by the video game media (including Giant Bomb) has painted the FGC in a very negative light. In the eyes of the average internet savvy gaming culture person, the FGC is the people that are covered in the media. By that logic, Aris is the FGC, because Giant Bomb, Kotaku, Destructoid, Penny Arcade etc. never write about anything else.

What is the FGC?

Yes, the scene is rowdy and uses colorful language. A lot. But that’s just the hard candy shell. It does not define us. Ask any long-time player about their favorite memories and almost no one will tell you about the time a caster yelled some obscenity, or the time someone popped off in another guys’ face. People will tell you about their first event, or maybe a particularly memorable grand finals, or the fun times hanging out with friends after the event, or the fantastic trip to a new place where they met new people and became friends. That is what defines us.

No drama. No popoffs. Just a few thousand or so players from all walks of life who share the same passion. You don’t have to hear what people are saying or understand the intricacies for Street Fighter IV to appreciate what makes this scene special. And this isn’t an Evo thing. This magic happens every week on a smaller scale all over the world.

http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back-to-basics-getting-beyond-the-drama/ Evo co-founder, Tom Cannon

What the FGC does when it isn't involved in controversies with video game media.

Please watch this video, this is the FGC, this is heartfelt and should be shown to as many people as possible. Keep an eye out for the comments from Twitch,tv's own Ben 'Fishstix' Goldhaber.

Final Round is the biggest FGC tournament event on the East Coast, Final Round XV (15 years!) is happening this weekend. The Cross Assault grand final will be held here today (Saturday March 3rd) at 10PM PST. As a Road to Evo event, Evo Championship seeding points will be given. Watch it!

Spooky (of Team Spooky) hasn't been home for 3 weeks, he streamed Winter Brawl, the second Road to Evo event, then he streamed Team Street Fighter and commentated all week for Cross Assault and now he's streaming Final Round XV. And now MLG is hoping he will produce their Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters XIII and Soulcalibur V tournaments at the MLG Winter Championships. He is the hardest working man in the FGC and a prime example of the hard work and passion in the FGC.

After everything that's happened, why is the FGC now hesitant to speak with the video game media?

Patrick at least understands that the FGC sees itself presented very poorly in the media. If Patrick and other members of the video game media don't meet the FGC half-way, then nothing will be accomplished. What do I mean by this? I mean that if Giant Bomb wants to cover the bad, then they have to cover the good too. Now Patrick would tell you that Giant Bomb has covered the FGC, when they ran the story about Noah Solis just after Evo 2011 last year - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/meet-noah-solis-the-8-year-old-fighting-game-wunderkind/3600/

But Noah is no more representative of the FGC than Aris is. The article about Noah is not a FGC article, it's a Noah article, the Aris article is not a FGC article, it's an Aris article. If you want to cover the FGC, then you have to cover what makes the scene what it is, as Tom Cannon put it, what defines the FGC. That is the way sites will build bridges with the FGC.

Thanks for reading. As a fan of the FGC and GB member I hope to see better relations between the two in the future.

UPDATE:

Big thanks to Patrick for checking out Final Round today.

What do the females of competitive gaming have to say for themselves

The issue of sexism in competitive gaming has come to the forefront recently, but it's been a problem for many years. David and James speak with four guests, Monique Mendoza, Kara Leung, Sherry Nhan, and Tricia Sugita, about what it's like to be a woman in a competitive gaming community, how women in gaming are treated, and what can be done to provide a better atmosphere for women gamers.

Sorry for the lack of editing, I just transferred it here directly from Twitch because my download and upload speeds would have made a file like this take forever.

Please subscribe here, follow us at http://twitch.tv/ultrachentv, and like us at http://facebook.com/ultrachentv. Also follow David on Twitter at @UltraDavid, James on Twitter at @jchensor, and the show at @UltraChenTV.

  • Show starts about 3 minutes into the video
  • There's a big loud noise at 5:58 and a few more into the video, watch out for that
  • James and David's volume does vary because they're sharing a mic
#1 Edited by FLStyle (4768 posts) -

Disclaimer: I'm going with the assumption that we all agree that the actions of Aris on the Team Tekken half of Cross Assault was completely wrong and that if you have an opinion on the matter that you want to discuss you have 2 articles by Patrick and various additional articles by many video game journalism websites in which to do so.

So what I'm trying to do with this blog is give an accurate representation of what the Fighting Game Community is all about. Unintentionally or not, coverage by the video game media (including Giant Bomb) has painted the FGC in a very negative light. In the eyes of the average internet savvy gaming culture person, the FGC is the people that are covered in the media. By that logic, Aris is the FGC, because Giant Bomb, Kotaku, Destructoid, Penny Arcade etc. never write about anything else.

What is the FGC?

Yes, the scene is rowdy and uses colorful language. A lot. But that’s just the hard candy shell. It does not define us. Ask any long-time player about their favorite memories and almost no one will tell you about the time a caster yelled some obscenity, or the time someone popped off in another guys’ face. People will tell you about their first event, or maybe a particularly memorable grand finals, or the fun times hanging out with friends after the event, or the fantastic trip to a new place where they met new people and became friends. That is what defines us.

No drama. No popoffs. Just a few thousand or so players from all walks of life who share the same passion. You don’t have to hear what people are saying or understand the intricacies for Street Fighter IV to appreciate what makes this scene special. And this isn’t an Evo thing. This magic happens every week on a smaller scale all over the world.

http://shoryuken.com/2012/02/29/back-to-basics-getting-beyond-the-drama/ Evo co-founder, Tom Cannon

What the FGC does when it isn't involved in controversies with video game media.

Please watch this video, this is the FGC, this is heartfelt and should be shown to as many people as possible. Keep an eye out for the comments from Twitch,tv's own Ben 'Fishstix' Goldhaber.

Final Round is the biggest FGC tournament event on the East Coast, Final Round XV (15 years!) is happening this weekend. The Cross Assault grand final will be held here today (Saturday March 3rd) at 10PM PST. As a Road to Evo event, Evo Championship seeding points will be given. Watch it!

Spooky (of Team Spooky) hasn't been home for 3 weeks, he streamed Winter Brawl, the second Road to Evo event, then he streamed Team Street Fighter and commentated all week for Cross Assault and now he's streaming Final Round XV. And now MLG is hoping he will produce their Mortal Kombat, King of Fighters XIII and Soulcalibur V tournaments at the MLG Winter Championships. He is the hardest working man in the FGC and a prime example of the hard work and passion in the FGC.

After everything that's happened, why is the FGC now hesitant to speak with the video game media?

Patrick at least understands that the FGC sees itself presented very poorly in the media. If Patrick and other members of the video game media don't meet the FGC half-way, then nothing will be accomplished. What do I mean by this? I mean that if Giant Bomb wants to cover the bad, then they have to cover the good too. Now Patrick would tell you that Giant Bomb has covered the FGC, when they ran the story about Noah Solis just after Evo 2011 last year - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/meet-noah-solis-the-8-year-old-fighting-game-wunderkind/3600/

But Noah is no more representative of the FGC than Aris is. The article about Noah is not a FGC article, it's a Noah article, the Aris article is not a FGC article, it's an Aris article. If you want to cover the FGC, then you have to cover what makes the scene what it is, as Tom Cannon put it, what defines the FGC. That is the way sites will build bridges with the FGC.

Thanks for reading. As a fan of the FGC and GB member I hope to see better relations between the two in the future.

UPDATE:

Big thanks to Patrick for checking out Final Round today.

What do the females of competitive gaming have to say for themselves

The issue of sexism in competitive gaming has come to the forefront recently, but it's been a problem for many years. David and James speak with four guests, Monique Mendoza, Kara Leung, Sherry Nhan, and Tricia Sugita, about what it's like to be a woman in a competitive gaming community, how women in gaming are treated, and what can be done to provide a better atmosphere for women gamers.

Sorry for the lack of editing, I just transferred it here directly from Twitch because my download and upload speeds would have made a file like this take forever.

Please subscribe here, follow us at http://twitch.tv/ultrachentv, and like us at http://facebook.com/ultrachentv. Also follow David on Twitter at @UltraDavid, James on Twitter at @jchensor, and the show at @UltraChenTV.

  • Show starts about 3 minutes into the video
  • There's a big loud noise at 5:58 and a few more into the video, watch out for that
  • James and David's volume does vary because they're sharing a mic
#2 Edited by Brendan (7845 posts) -

If Giantbomb wants to cover the good, they have to...talk to the FGC.

Well then, FGC, don't hide in your shells then, and try, I dunno, responding to the media such as Patrick when he wants your take on the situation?? The fighting game community isn't helping itself AT ALL in this situation. Fucking represent yourselves if you don't want bad coverage.

#3 Edited by Lunar_Aura (2779 posts) -

You know what? I'm gonna miss the off-color commentary in the fighting game streams. There have been WAY MORE OFFENSIVE commentary just last year's EVO late night streams with big CAPCOM logo right there as if they supported it. No biggie.

Now all the commentators are going to be on edge for fear of being "Aris'd" so to speak. What a damn clusterfuck. Who gives a shit whether or not it represents the FGC as a whole? People have already made up their minds, and there most likely isn't a damn thing you can say to change them.

#4 Posted by FLStyle (4768 posts) -
#5 Edited by Brodehouse (10078 posts) -

Sounds like you don't want a journalist, you want a cheerleader. You're taking a lack of constant, weekly promotion as being negative portrayed, which is ridiculous. If the leaders of that community won't talk to Patrick because he's not a part of their clique, how is there ever going to be inside commentary here? Insular community is insular. They don't want to talk to Patrick and open things up, they appear to just want him to go away.

Imagine if a publisher wouldn't talk to Patrick about a major negative issue because Giant Bomb didn't cover their charity work or their community promotion.

#6 Posted by dungareeshiraz (11 posts) -

I just wanted to say something about the Larry video. He looks like an amazing guy who works hard to bring people together to share their hobby.

At the same time I couldn't take my attention off the sidebar chat. It was like a volcano of racism erupting in real time. The only thing that (briefly) stopped the slurs was the announcement that his mother died.

Well I certainly agree that Larry would be an ideal model for how the FGC could behave, the live stream chat is the true representative of the community.

Leaders can be extremely virtuous, but that does not mean their constituents are.

#7 Posted by President_Barackbar (3467 posts) -

The only reason the fighting game community is portrayed in a negative light is because members of said community by and large conduct themselves in a manner consistent with their popular portrayal. I'm not saying EVERYONE is like that, or that there aren't people who are trying to change that (Mr. Jared is a great example of someone trying to change things for the better). If the FGC wants to change their public perception they need to crack down on prominent members of their community who perpetuate the stereotype that they all act like dicks. Until then, nothing is going to change.

#8 Edited by SlightConfuse (3963 posts) -

Had no idea the MLG wanted sp00ky to stream their stuff, good for him.

#9 Posted by McGhee (6094 posts) -

I've watched a shit load of fighting game streams. Anyone that does knows that, while they are a bunch of fun-loving people, there also is a whole lot of racist, sexist, and childish bullshit going on.

#10 Posted by dungareeshiraz (11 posts) -

Maybe the problem is the expectation that a community with an anonymous majority could be anything other than politically incorrect.

#11 Posted by PixelPrinny (1030 posts) -

The FGC does lots of awesome things and is a terrific community; the same can be said about much of the internet. But it's nice to see there's actually being some attention given to the disgusting amounts of sexism that can go on across the internet in general and that it really shouldn't be tolerated as much as it has been. The FGC, nor Reddit, nor anyone should be immune to being called out for it just because "they don't really mean it" or some such nonsense. And the argument that "this doesn't happen offline" is irrelevant; this is tolerated online and needs to stop.

Personally, I think that if the community didn't tolerate, let alone play up to, the retarded "stream monsters", this really wouldn't even be an issue. But somehow "stream monster" has become an endearing term for assholes trying to outdo each others attempts at trolling and being as despicable as possible. I hope this media attention might actually be a wakeup call for the higher ups in the community to start telling these morons to shut the fuck up.

#12 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Every time people call it the FGC I just hear Michael Bluth saying "Don't call it that."

#13 Edited by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@McGhee said:

I've watched a shit load of fighting game streams. Anyone that does knows that, while they are a bunch of fun-loving people, there also is a whole lot of racist, sexist, and childish bullshit going on.

Indeed.  However, there is also often a lot of insightful and entertaining discussion going on too it just often gets lost in streams which don't get any or much press coverage.  
 
@PixelPrinny said:

Personally, I think that if the community didn't tolerate, let alone play up to, the retarded "stream monsters", this really wouldn't even be an issue. But somehow "stream monster" has become an endearing term for assholes trying to outdo each others attempts at trolling and being as despicable as possible. I hope this media attention might actually be a wakeup call for the higher ups in the community to start telling these morons to shut the fuck up.

I think that comes from a culture which is fed on a diet of Pro Wrasslin so there are expected demons and fans for those kinds of people.  There's also the hood element which Jeff aluded on the Bombcast too and that also ties in to why this problem exists too.  I agree though and also hope that this leads to some sort of scene wide wakeup call.
#14 Posted by dungareeshiraz (11 posts) -

As long as it is anonymous, it won't stop.

Completely rejected from an online community and banned? Create a new account and identity, and possibly even become well liked. A social "extra life".

Online or offline, anonymity acquits people of social responsibility. People/celebrities who speak out on certain topics still get death threats and hate (snail) mail from anonymous people.

The paradox of the whole thing is that the only way to deal with abuse of anonymity is to make things more Orwellian, which people are repulsed by. If your actual identity is known, rather than a screen name (ala Facebook), people will behave better (For the most part, exceptions are there - like a friend who is always known for blurting out inappropriate things. Chances are he's already been ostracised in real life for it) . Their real-life social relationships are represented and there are consequences. You can only fix the problems of anonymity by removing anonymity itself, which just won't be allowed.

My opinion is that the internet gives humanity a chance to expose it's true inner core. It's part of the healing process. We're despicable and that's ok! Now how the hell do we move on from here?

#15 Posted by Deusx (1910 posts) -

Great article my fellow duder, that really made me look at the fighting games community in a different light. I hope Patrick gets to see this.

#16 Posted by Simplexity (1382 posts) -

Like every community ever they have their sub 5% contingent that consists of utter cunts, there is nothing new here.

#17 Posted by Vegetable_Side_Dish (1730 posts) -
@Lunar_Aura said:

You know what? I'm gonna miss the off-color commentary in the fighting game streams. There have been WAY MORE OFFENSIVE commentary just last year's EVO late night streams with big CAPCOM logo right there as if they supported it. No biggie.

Now all the commentators are going to be on edge for fear of being "Aris'd" so to speak. What a damn clusterfuck. Who gives a shit whether or not it represents the FGC as a whole? People have already made up their minds, and there most likely isn't a damn thing you can say to change them.

Yeh, I agree. I do love that slightly off-kilter fgc commentary, and dumbing it down to resemble something like Starcraft commentary would make the scene lose a lot of its..soul. 
#18 Posted by Animasta (14713 posts) -

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@Lunar_Aura said:

You know what? I'm gonna miss the off-color commentary in the fighting game streams. There have been WAY MORE OFFENSIVE commentary just last year's EVO late night streams with big CAPCOM logo right there as if they supported it. No biggie.

Now all the commentators are going to be on edge for fear of being "Aris'd" so to speak. What a damn clusterfuck. Who gives a shit whether or not it represents the FGC as a whole? People have already made up their minds, and there most likely isn't a damn thing you can say to change them.

Yeh, I agree. I do love that slightly off-kilter fgc commentary, and dumbing it down to resemble something like Starcraft commentary would make the scene lose a lot of its..soul.

that's just a slippery slope argument that has no real bearing on anything. Yes, maybe people will think about their words more; that does not mean they will go completely to the opposite side and do dry ass commentating.

I've only watched competitive Catherine a couple times (think miranda was there too if I remember right) and those guys were plenty funny without saying offensive things.

#19 Posted by NoelVeiga (1102 posts) -

Can I point out how annoyed I am at this group of people calling themselves "the Fighting Games Community", capital letters and all? They're the tournament scene. ONE tournament scene, at that. It seems disrespectful both of the tournament scenes elsewhere and to the large amount of people who play these games casually in their own communities but have no interest in watching streams of participating in tournaments.

#20 Posted by groin (848 posts) -

@dungareeshiraz said:

I just wanted to say something about the Larry video. He looks like an amazing guy who works hard to bring people together to share their hobby.

At the same time I couldn't take my attention off the sidebar chat. It was like a volcano of racism erupting in real time. The only thing that (briefly) stopped the slurs was the announcement that his mother died.

Well I certainly agree that Larry would be an ideal model for how the FGC could behave, the live stream chat is the true representative of the community.

Leaders can be extremely virtuous, but that does not mean their constituents are.

Terrible stream chat is a problem with every community on twitch.tv. People like iNcontrol and Destiny (SC2 players) are constantly attacked while streaming. This type of shit also happens on XBox live, PSN, battle.net and etc. It is not exclusive to the FGC.

#21 Posted by NoelVeiga (1102 posts) -

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@Lunar_Aura said:

You know what? I'm gonna miss the off-color commentary in the fighting game streams. There have been WAY MORE OFFENSIVE commentary just last year's EVO late night streams with big CAPCOM logo right there as if they supported it. No biggie.

Now all the commentators are going to be on edge for fear of being "Aris'd" so to speak. What a damn clusterfuck. Who gives a shit whether or not it represents the FGC as a whole? People have already made up their minds, and there most likely isn't a damn thing you can say to change them.

Yeh, I agree. I do love that slightly off-kilter fgc commentary, and dumbing it down to resemble something like Starcraft commentary would make the scene lose a lot of its..soul.

I can understand the sentiment, but "dumbing down" is not the expression you should have used there...

#22 Edited by benjaebe (2783 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

Sounds like you don't want a journalist, you want a cheerleader. You're taking a lack of constant, weekly promotion as being negative portrayed, which is ridiculous. If the leaders of that community won't talk to Patrick because he's not a part of their clique, how is there ever going to be inside commentary here? Insular community is insular. They don't want to talk to Patrick and open things up, they appear to just want him to go away.

Imagine if a publisher wouldn't talk to Patrick about a major negative issue because Giant Bomb didn't cover their charity work or their community promotion.

Came here to post the same thing. Or as Alex said on his Twitter, "there is a significant population of gamers who do not understand that the press doesn't exist solely to champion your scene." Don't be mad at the press for shining a light on the shitty aspects of your scene, be mad at the people who did it in the first place. The entire thing was totally newsworthy because it was sponsored by Capcom and one of their guests was acting like a sexist moron and no one called him out on it at the time. It's not like Patrick or anyone else (especially the PA Report article, which was great) exaggerated anything to make the FGC look bad.

#23 Edited by megalowho (972 posts) -

Nice post. Good thoughts and links all around. Unfortunately from what I'm seeing after the initial shock of the story has worn off is that a majority of the FGC just wants everyone to shut up, let this blow over, and continue with business as usual without the spotlight on them. It's easy to brush off a difficult topic that hits close to home as blanket criticism that doesn't apply to you personally, or to hide behind the "you just don't get it" line. And that is surely anyone's right, but it also reinforces the general opinion that the community has a tendency to be insular, immature and distrustful of outsiders at the drop of a hat.

I wish Patrick wasn't getting stonewalled as I'd like to see a real substantive dialogue come out of this, but I'm also not surprised. The sooner he and other media outlets stop writing articles, the sooner it's not a topic of discussion anymore. I don't think fair coverage is the goal (though I believe the GB articles to be very fair), it's no coverage.

#24 Posted by EvilTwin (3324 posts) -
@McGhee said:

I've watched a shit load of fighting game streams. Anyone that does knows that, while they are a bunch of fun-loving people, there also is a whole lot of racist, sexist, and childish bullshit going on.

This.
#25 Posted by Jimbo (9869 posts) -

I don't think you get to pick and choose which parts do and don't define you, duder.  Sorry.

#26 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3819 posts) -

Patrick at least understands that the FGC sees itself presented very poorly in the media. If Patrick and other members of the video game media don't meet the FGC half-way, then nothing will be accomplished. What do I mean by this? I mean that if Giant Bomb wants to cover the bad, then they have to cover the good too. Now Patrick would tell you that Giant Bomb has covered the FGC, when they ran the story about Noah Solis just after Evo 2011 last year - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/meet-noah-solis-the-8-year-old-fighting-game-wunderkind/3600/

But Noah is no more representative of the FGC than Aris is. The article about Noah is not a FGC article, it's a Noah article, the Aris article is not a FGC article, it's an Aris article. If you want to cover the FGC, then you have to cover what makes the scene what it is, as Tom Cannon put it, what defines the FGC. That is the way sites will build bridges with the FGC.

Thanks for reading. As a fan of the FGC and GB member I hope to see better relations between the two in the future.

Refusing to talk about a negative story is the dumbest thing they could do. When a politician is attacked, they immediately go out to the press to confront the allegations head-on. It's the only way to prevent things from getting worse. Also, it would be a great opportunity for them to point out and press the "positive stories" you mentioned that have gone unnoticed. "He's a small member of our community. He doesn't represent us. In fact, lots of us are good. Look at all these examples..."

Instead they acted like babies and said "Shut up, jerks!"

#27 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -
@Wrighteous86 said:

Patrick at least understands that the FGC sees itself presented very poorly in the media. If Patrick and other members of the video game media don't meet the FGC half-way, then nothing will be accomplished. What do I mean by this? I mean that if Giant Bomb wants to cover the bad, then they have to cover the good too. Now Patrick would tell you that Giant Bomb has covered the FGC, when they ran the story about Noah Solis just after Evo 2011 last year - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/meet-noah-solis-the-8-year-old-fighting-game-wunderkind/3600/

But Noah is no more representative of the FGC than Aris is. The article about Noah is not a FGC article, it's a Noah article, the Aris article is not a FGC article, it's an Aris article. If you want to cover the FGC, then you have to cover what makes the scene what it is, as Tom Cannon put it, what defines the FGC. That is the way sites will build bridges with the FGC.

Thanks for reading. As a fan of the FGC and GB member I hope to see better relations between the two in the future.

Refusing to talk about a negative story is the dumbest thing they could do. When a politician is attacked, they immediately go out to the press to confront the allegations head-on. It's the only way to prevent things from getting worse. Also, it would be a great opportunity for them to point out and press the "positive stories" you mentioned that have gone unnoticed. "He's a small member of our community. He doesn't represent us. In fact, lots of us are good. Look at all these examples..."

Instead they acted like babies and said "Shut up, jerks!"

That's what I was going to say, well put. 
 
Refusing to say anything just makes it seem like the FGC(sounds so dumb) are just going: "We love our FGC! ... what? No we won't defend it, we don't really love it. Go away!" 
Online
#28 Posted by Little_Socrates (5683 posts) -

I'm still thinking about a write-up for all of this. I'm not sure quite what to say about all of this, and I look forward to doing a write-up.

#29 Posted by kindgineer (2771 posts) -

@Vegetable_Side_Dish said:

@Lunar_Aura said:

You know what? I'm gonna miss the off-color commentary in the fighting game streams. There have been WAY MORE OFFENSIVE commentary just last year's EVO late night streams with big CAPCOM logo right there as if they supported it. No biggie.

Now all the commentators are going to be on edge for fear of being "Aris'd" so to speak. What a damn clusterfuck. Who gives a shit whether or not it represents the FGC as a whole? People have already made up their minds, and there most likely isn't a damn thing you can say to change them.

Yeh, I agree. I do love that slightly off-kilter fgc commentary, and dumbing it down to resemble something like Starcraft commentary would make the scene lose a lot of its..soul.

Since when is offensively racist and sexist comments part of it's "soul." I have watched plenty of commentary for all types of things: Sports, Games, and even cooking, and all the commentary was great without the needed immature bullshit we see every day. We are only giving an excuse to these people who act like this and giving them their granted anonymity. This is the real world, and when it comes to a professional event you act professional, regardless of whether or not your mouth or actions can handle it.

It's one of the reason I rarely ever participate in live events in my city with my wife, the things people say and do are just horrendous.

#30 Posted by Forderz (247 posts) -

The FGC is missing a huge opportunity here to spotlight all the positives about their community. By not talking to the press, one could come to the conclusion that they having nothing to show the media as a rebuttal to the misogynist allegations being thrown around.

That would be silly, but it is not outside the realm of possibility. The FGC should be seizing the opportunity to talk to the press and show the world just how awesome the community is, not backing away.

#31 Posted by biospank (660 posts) -

dunno but FGC seems pretty normal too me.

#32 Posted by Tim_the_Corsair (3065 posts) -

Fuck you Giantbomb, you ignore positive coverage of the FGC and only emphasise the bad!

Compare that to all the positive coverage you give to the CS scene...wait, umm, the TF2 scene! Oh, ummm, the Halo scene! Wait, wait, Call of Duty?

Oh yeah, Giantbomb is in the business of reporting gaming NEWS, like when a scumbag sexually harrasses someone and then claims its the lifeblood of the community. The article didn't paint the FGC in a negative light, Aris did, and everyone understands that. It's the people that poured out of the woodwork to defend his actions that made me think the issue was endemic.

#33 Posted by Animasta (14713 posts) -

@Tim_the_Corsair: yep that was a point I was gonna bring up too; way too many people defending him for this to just be one bad seed

#34 Posted by Giacomito (208 posts) -

great larry-video! hope this spreads more!

I Love the fighting game community!

#35 Posted by Bestostero (2758 posts) -

where's the article for the winners of evo? where's the article for the upcoming tournaments? where's the article for the charity streams and marathons that the fgc does?

nobody ever asked to talk to people then im sure.

#36 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

@ZeForgotten said:

@Wrighteous86 said:

Patrick at least understands that the FGC sees itself presented very poorly in the media. If Patrick and other members of the video game media don't meet the FGC half-way, then nothing will be accomplished. What do I mean by this? I mean that if Giant Bomb wants to cover the bad, then they have to cover the good too. Now Patrick would tell you that Giant Bomb has covered the FGC, when they ran the story about Noah Solis just after Evo 2011 last year - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/meet-noah-solis-the-8-year-old-fighting-game-wunderkind/3600/

But Noah is no more representative of the FGC than Aris is. The article about Noah is not a FGC article, it's a Noah article, the Aris article is not a FGC article, it's an Aris article. If you want to cover the FGC, then you have to cover what makes the scene what it is, as Tom Cannon put it, what defines the FGC. That is the way sites will build bridges with the FGC.

Thanks for reading. As a fan of the FGC and GB member I hope to see better relations between the two in the future.

Refusing to talk about a negative story is the dumbest thing they could do. When a politician is attacked, they immediately go out to the press to confront the allegations head-on. It's the only way to prevent things from getting worse. Also, it would be a great opportunity for them to point out and press the "positive stories" you mentioned that have gone unnoticed. "He's a small member of our community. He doesn't represent us. In fact, lots of us are good. Look at all these examples..."

Instead they acted like babies and said "Shut up, jerks!"

That's what I was going to say, well put. Refusing to say anything just makes it seem like the FGC(sounds so dumb) are just going: "We love our FGC! ... what? No we won't defend it, we don't really love it. Go away!"

Some people are making it sound like the FGC (I hate saying that as much as hearing 'the OC") is a governing body. It's just people who like fighting games guys. There isn't presidents or chairmen to issue statements or partake in damage control. Likely people aren't talking because what's there to say? A guy acted like a douchebag towards a pretty young lady and they just so happened to be on a fighting game stream. Now what?

#37 Posted by Vegetable_Side_Dish (1730 posts) -
@ccampb89: @Animasta:  Ah, let me clarify that I don't think  that any commentary that is overtly offensive to anyone because of their gender/race etc etc is good commentary. What I mean is that I do not want the commentary to be toned down in the way that sports commentary on daytime tv has to be. I do not want the casters to have to worry at every turn about lawsuits from this that or whoever over a quip or aggressive comment about a player or practice, and not be able to speak their mind ad lib, as they always have done. I recognize my view isn't shared by all, but when I watch a fighting stream, I want it to emulate the atmosphere from the arcades. Yes, that's male-dominated, yes it's crass and at times offensive, but it's is rarely so much so that they do any real harm to anybody. It's a fine line, but it's served the community well for a while now. 
 
@NoelVeiga : Maybe you're right. 
#38 Edited by FUMN (85 posts) -

@Sooty: Seriously you are 100 percent fucking correct. What else is there to say about it? The guy is an asshole. He apologized. Capcom apologized. The FGC is just going to be further ostracized because people only focus on this one negative. That doesnt make for a great or riveting interview.

Out of the hundreds of thousands of people in the FGC, giantbomb focuses on this one guy who was incredibly awkward towards a member of their team. Lets not focus on how open and embracing the entire community was to Kayo Police (a transgender Japanese girl), Broly Legs (A physically handicapped man who plays with his face) nor Ricky Ortiz (An openly gay cross dresser). There are various other special people in the FGC who are gay or cross dress and yet there is no report on how open the community is to them. And lets not forget how kind everyone is to Juicebox, a man with autism. OH! And I almost forgot. When a prominent FGC commentator's house burned down, the FGC raised money to repair his house.

Maybe if Patrick, instead of focusing on this one weeks event, focused on all of this weeks events in the FGC. We had this sexism scandal, a match rigging scandal and cross assault?

#39 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@Sooty said:

@ZeForgotten said:

@Wrighteous86 said:

Patrick at least understands that the FGC sees itself presented very poorly in the media. If Patrick and other members of the video game media don't meet the FGC half-way, then nothing will be accomplished. What do I mean by this? I mean that if Giant Bomb wants to cover the bad, then they have to cover the good too. Now Patrick would tell you that Giant Bomb has covered the FGC, when they ran the story about Noah Solis just after Evo 2011 last year - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/meet-noah-solis-the-8-year-old-fighting-game-wunderkind/3600/

But Noah is no more representative of the FGC than Aris is. The article about Noah is not a FGC article, it's a Noah article, the Aris article is not a FGC article, it's an Aris article. If you want to cover the FGC, then you have to cover what makes the scene what it is, as Tom Cannon put it, what defines the FGC. That is the way sites will build bridges with the FGC.

Thanks for reading. As a fan of the FGC and GB member I hope to see better relations between the two in the future.

Refusing to talk about a negative story is the dumbest thing they could do. When a politician is attacked, they immediately go out to the press to confront the allegations head-on. It's the only way to prevent things from getting worse. Also, it would be a great opportunity for them to point out and press the "positive stories" you mentioned that have gone unnoticed. "He's a small member of our community. He doesn't represent us. In fact, lots of us are good. Look at all these examples..."

Instead they acted like babies and said "Shut up, jerks!"

That's what I was going to say, well put. Refusing to say anything just makes it seem like the FGC(sounds so dumb) are just going: "We love our FGC! ... what? No we won't defend it, we don't really love it. Go away!"

Some people are making it sound like the FGC (I hate saying that as much as hearing 'the OC") is a governing body. It's just people who like fighting games guys. There isn't presidents or chairmen to issue statements or partake in damage control. Likely people aren't talking because what's there to say? A guy acted like a douchebag towards a pretty young lady and they just so happened to be on a fighting game stream. Now what?

But the community does have a number of prominent figures that are widely recognized within their ranks that would make for excellent spokesmen if they were willing to actually discuss the community at large with members of the press that aren't part of their insular culture. Instead, they've chosen to clam up for people like Patrick and wonder why the negative stereotypes are perpetuating. It's because they refuse to talk. The most wide-spread article posted by a member of the FGC related to this issue, that "Getting Back to Basics" piece posted on SRK, is nothing more than a cheerleading fluff-piece that refused to discuss the issue with any seriousness and instead asked people within the community to think of the best moments they've had. It wasn't unitl Kotaku posted an article related to that damning tournament commentary video making fun of the situation that the same author of that fluff-piece turned around and issued a follow-up stating that the issue has to be taken care of now.

Why didn't he suggest that the issue had to be taken care of in his first article from the very start? It's like he wasn't taking the sexual harassment issue seriously either, because dude, competition is awesome.

I mean, seriously. The people in a position to help promote the FGC's positives were only willing to do so to other members of the community and put their heads in the sand regarding the more serious allegations. It's little more than preaching to the choir and being shocked that the angry people outside the church haven't gone away.

#40 Posted by Fozimuth (170 posts) -

I like watching Mike Ross and Gootecks sitting on a couch losing to people on Xbox Live, UltraDavid showing up to tournaments wearing a suit and playing Dan, or a ball room full of people getting excited about a Korean guy drinking Red Bull.  I don't give a damn about this Aris guy saying something asinine.  I don't believe the "trash talking is essential" crap, I don't care about the obnoxious "stream monsters."  I don't consider them or the pricks who just hang out on Shoryuken to assert their pretend superiority over everyone else on the site "the face" of the so-called FGC or anything.  You don't need to defend them, just pay attention to the normal people.
 
Uh, I've heard KayoPolice is just a crossdresser with very shiny hair.  And I don't think Juicebox has autism. 

#41 Posted by FUMN (85 posts) -

@Hailinel: Bull Fucking Shit. The reason they don't talk about it is because what the fuck is there to say? Everyone has apologized. People have admitted fault. The FGC has expressed a sentiment to get something done about it. Who the fuck is Patrick contacting anyways? How can anyone, except Aris, explain what Aris meant?

SRKs first article was more of a "c'mon guys" light touch approach at guiding the few misguided on the correct course. He was attempting to show what the FGC truly was about. And what the FGC does when people aren't focused on this one asshole. Just because my dad didn't hit me when I stole $20 DOES NOT mean that he wasnt disappointed in me. He took me close and explained that he loved me and that this couldn't happen again because that wasn't who I was. When Marn and a few others started making light of it, he put his foot down and made it no longer lovey dovey. He was taking it seriously from the start. Why else would he write an article if he wasn't serious about it?

If you actually followed the FGC closely. You would understand that Marn, Aris, JaHa are just assholes. You wouldn't be surprised.

@Fozimuth: He would prefer to be identified as a female. But technically he still has a penis. The juicebox comment was a joke........

#42 Posted by Animasta (14713 posts) -

@FUMN: if she wants to be identified as female than she should be, no matter what genitalia she has.

#43 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@FUMN said:

@Hailinel: Bull Fucking Shit. The reason they don't talk about it is because what the fuck is there to say? Everyone has apologized. People have admitted fault. The FGC has expressed a sentiment to get something done about it. Who the fuck is Patrick contacting anyways? How can anyone, except Aris, explain what Aris meant?

SRKs first article was more of a "c'mon guys" light touch approach at guiding the few misguided on the correct course. He was attempting to show what the FGC truly was about. And what the FGC does when people aren't focused on this one asshole. Just because my dad didn't hit me when I stole $20 DOES NOT mean that he wasnt disappointed in me. He took me close and explained that he loved me and that this couldn't happen again because that wasn't who I was. When Marn and a few others started making light of it, he put his foot down and made it no longer lovey dovey. He was taking it seriously from the start. Why else would he write an article if he wasn't serious about it?

If you actually followed the FGC closely. You would understand that Marn, Aris, JaHa are just assholes. You wouldn't be surprised.

"If" I followed the FGC closely. However, many people do not, and it is these people that are looking at the FGC from the outside and wondering what in the flying fuck allowed Aris to rise to such a visible position within it. Most of the conversation regarding the situation from members of the FGC is with other members of the FGC, not the people on the outside. Patrick asked a number of the community's figures for comment, and he's getting little feedback in response. Why are they not willing to talk about it? If they have something positive to say about the community or want to show that Aris is not representative of the community, then they should be lining up to talk to people like Patrick, not giving him the cold shoulder while choosing to instead address members within the community. It just makes them look like they're waiting for the whole thing to blow over.

#44 Edited by FUMN (85 posts) -

@Animasta: Thats why I called her a female in my original post......

@Hailinel: The whole idea of FGC is misleading. We are not a community, we are not organized and we are generally do not have a cohesive view. The FGC is unlike Starcraft and Halo. We are not used to being professionally sponsored or organized. Think of this.

People seem to think as Aris as a spokesperson sent forth from the organization called the FGC. He said some shit and its the FGC's fault for what he said because they put him up there. (First off it was Capcom that decided that Aris would be the captain, not the community)

The FGC is more like a giant room filled with thousands of people all saying different shit. And somehow Aris' words seemed to be highlighted above all else.

To answer your questions:

1. wondering what in the flying fuck allowed Aris to rise to such a visible position within it. - 1st As I said, the FGC did not decide to specifically send Aris to Crossassualt. That was Capcoms choice, and that was their error, not the FGC. Secondly, Aris is literally the foundation for the American tekken scene. He is renowned and is practically the Jwong of Tekken.

2. Most of the conversation regarding the situation from members of the FGC is with other members of the FGC, not the people on the outside.- first, Because the outside doesnt understand that we are not a cohesive community. We are not organized. We do not have a spokesman. We simply aren't what people perceive us as. Second, this is a problem within select members of the FGC. Why shouldn't we attempt to get them to straighten themselves out internally? Marn has been banned as a commentator, others have been banned. We are working on it from the inside, so that our outward appearance reflects our inner work.

3. Patrick asked a number of the community's figures for comment, and he's getting little feedback in response. Why are they not willing to talk about it? If they have something positive to say about the community or want to show that Aris is not representative of the community, then they should be lining up to talk to people like Patrick, not giving him the cold shoulder while choosing to instead address members within the community. It just makes them look like they're waiting for the whole thing to blow over. --- What community figures is he asking? The FGC does not have PR people, we don't have people person celebrities. We have good players. There is no internal office of FGC elites. Why is the FGC held responsible for Capcoms decision to put Aris with a microphone? What else could be said about the situation other then "yeah, Aris is an asshole dude" ?

Oh and this. http://cfile10.uf.tistory.com/media/1163A83E4EA13F5623A787

#45 Posted by Animasta (14713 posts) -

@FUMN: you were still using the he pronoun though

#46 Posted by FUMN (85 posts) -

@Animasta: CHECK MY INITIAL POST!!!. I was responding to a person saying that he was just a crossdresser.

@FUMN said:

Kayo Police (a transgender Japanese girl),

#47 Posted by Subject2Change (2966 posts) -

NO LADIES IN A VIDEO GAME COMMUNITY, THIS IS A DISGUSTING BEARD SOCIETY!

#48 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@FUMN: Aris stated publicly that his comments reflect the sort of vibe the FGC represents. While this is not true, he became a public face in the community not only through Cross Assault, but through his various interactions in the community that eventually led to the opportunity to become the coach of Team Tekken.

And while the FGC is not some organized, highly structured body, it is shorthand for a subculture focused on fighting games that is largely perceived as very insular to those that are not a part of it. As much work may go on to clean up the scene's image from the inside, the wider perception of the community from the outside, that it is insular and guarded, is not something that will go away because of this. The negative reactions of those outside the community to Aris's behavior and the community members that for whatever reason supported his crass display of idiocy is a strong one that could leave a significant impact on the wider perception of the scene no matter who gets banned from what. Outsiders see people acting like morons and supporting others that act like morons, so why would these outsiders, people who might otherwise have shown some interest in the community and maybe even becoming a part of it at some point, feel compelled to express sympathy for anyone other than the targets of the community members' vitriol and harassment? From the outside looking in, and for people who only had a vague understanding of the community in any sense prior to this past week's blow-up, Aris's actions have single-handedly painted a picture of a scene that is misogynistic, immature, and defensive.

I personally do not know who Patrick reached out to for comment, nor do I know how many people he reached out to. I have to assume that it was more than a few, given his frustration over the lack of response. But I would also assume that the people he reached out to were some of the more visible, public members of the community, whether they're popular commentators, tournament regulars, or what have you. There may not be a governing body, but the scene does have its share of relative celebrities. I'd expect all of them to have some sort of thoughts on the matter, yet few if any of them wish to share those thoughts with a reporter who is not a member of the clique (i.e.: Is not a regular at tournaments, does not regularly report on tournaments or other fighting game events, and whose reporting is aimed at an audience wider than just those that are part of the community and that are knowledgeable of the culture within it).

As long as the conversation remains within the FGC and no one that considers him or herself a part of it speaks publicly to a member of the non-fighting game-focused press, word of these changes will not become widespread. Outsiders will continue to think of the community as being a bastion of sexist fuckwits, and the larger image of being associated with the tournament scene will not improve.

#49 Posted by FUMN (85 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

From the outside looking in, and for people who only had a vague understanding of the community in any sense prior to this past week's blow-up, Aris's actions have single-handedly painted a picture of a scene that is misogynistic, immature, and defensive.

Thats the problem. It's a view that is only founded by this one incident. If you are not part of this community then you have no emotional investment in it and do not understand the lengths in which people have attempted to distance themselves from this perception. There are very few people who support sexism within many of the FG communities i visit (Srk, Eventhubs, Iplaywinner, r/sf4). This was not an isolated incident, and in many communities there are a shit ton of sexists (Reddit anyone?). But if you keep lumping the entire FGC into this one sexist bunch, the only thing you are encouraging is that the FGC just locks down tighter then what it already is. You will promote more isolation which will allow further proliferation of the mentalities that we were condemned for. People that do not even agree with Aris will find no allies except for those within the FGC.

#50 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -

@FUMN said:

@Hailinel said:

From the outside looking in, and for people who only had a vague understanding of the community in any sense prior to this past week's blow-up, Aris's actions have single-handedly painted a picture of a scene that is misogynistic, immature, and defensive.

Thats the problem. It's a view that is only founded by this one incident. If you are not part of this community then you have no emotional investment in it and do not understand the lengths in which people have attempted to distance themselves from this perception. There are very few people who support sexism within many of the FG communities i visit (Srk, Eventhubs, Iplaywinner, r/sf4). This was not an isolated incident, and in many communities there are a shit ton of sexists (Reddit anyone?). But if you keep lumping the entire FGC into this one sexist bunch, the only thing you are encouraging is that the FGC just locks down tighter then what it already is. You will promote more isolation which will allow further proliferation of the mentalities that we were condemned for. People that do not even agree with Aris will find no allies except for those within the FGC.

Then the community's reaction to the situation is the wrong one to take. The people involved have to realize that perceptions will only change if the effort is made to reach out to people outside the community, not to shrink back into a shell and become even more insular. This controversy is not the fault of everyone within the community, but by doing nothing to reach out, they do not help their case.