@canteu: Take it easy brah :)
League of Legends: The Community Needs Healed.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
@ryokishine: My point is, even if you perceive it that way, it isn't reality. You have been speaking in a condescending manner whether you think you have or not. You poisoned the well from the beginning, and your unwillingness to listen continues to make this more about your flawed tone than the subject you apparently care about.
You may be different from other people, but it doesn't mean you don't know how to treat them courteously. If someone doesn't give you the same courtesy, you can just ignore them and focus on someone else. But this petty back and forth just makes you look full of yourself. LoL doesn't need more people who are full of themselves. It needs more people who have some humility, are willing to actually listen, and display some courtesy toward others.
being the strictly negative person that I am, I'm going to say that you should probably figure out what's fucking up with your linking and get it solved.
Think about how snappy and quick-to-judge these people have to be in an objective-based, team-game like League of Legends. If one person says one wrong thing, guess what happens? The rest of the match is spent bitching at each other having a "pissing-match" in chat.
- - - - - - - - -
That's why we need to change the Tribunal system. It all starts there. If it's a more reactive system and people can see exactly what they did wrong right after a match (immediately), instead of days, maybe even weeks later in an e-mail (a retroactive system)... It's going to be better than what it is now. That's all I'm trying to say.
Reactive system where a community is deemed to be quick-to-judge does not seem at all beneficial, quick punishments to people who may not deserve them is a tad bit unfair. And with your proposed suggestion, can be unfairly biased if voted on during the match. A more reactive system allows for more "innocent" players to be punished by allowing quicker judgments. The Tribunal may not be the most efficient way, but the community feels it is effective enough while still being fair. Again minor tweaks here and there.
@ryokishine: My point is, even if you perceive it that way, it isn't reality. You have been speaking in a condescending manner whether you think you have or not. You poisoned the well from the beginning, and your unwillingness to listen continues to make this more about your flawed tone than the subject you apparently care about.
You may be different from other people, but it doesn't mean you don't know how to treat them courteously. If someone doesn't give you the same courtesy, you can just ignore them and focus on someone else. But this petty back and forth just makes you look full of yourself. LoL doesn't need more people who are full of themselves. It needs more people who have some humility, are willing to actually listen, and display some courtesy toward others.
This
Posted by mrpandaman - July 20, 2013 at 5:20 PM
Think about how snappy and quick-to-judge these people have to be in an objective-based, team-game like League of Legends. If one person says one wrong thing, guess what happens? The rest of the match is spent bitching at each other having a "pissing-match" in chat.
- - - - - - - - -
That's why we need to change the Tribunal system. It all starts there. If it's a more reactive system and people can see exactly what they did wrong right after a match (immediately), instead of days, maybe even weeks later in an e-mail (a retroactive system)... It's going to be better than what it is now. That's all I'm trying to say.
"Reactive system where a community is deemed to be quick-to-judge does not seem at all beneficial, quick punishments to people who may not deserve them is a tad bit unfair. And with your proposed suggestion, can be unfairly biased if voted on during the match. A more reactive system allows for more "innocent" players to be punished by allowing quicker judgments. The Tribunal may not be the most efficient way, but the community feels it is effective enough while still being fair. Again minor tweaks here and there."
@mrpandaman: The system is being abused by these same players who are quick to judge. They will queue up with a premade team and then gang-report a teammate that they dislike and get that case sent to the Tribunal system. Depending on how much of a "pissing match" took place in the game, Tribunal might punish that player and it might not. After reading my entire post from the other forum, it is noted that I am combating this in a few ways:
1.) Leaving the old, retroactive system in place. This allows there to be a filter on the new, reactive system.
2a.) The other players involved in the match that just took place will also be able to see the Entire ChatLog and vote on whether they think the reports that went out for a game were legitimate or not. If there is not a majority, then the case never reaches the retroactive system that is currently in place now.
2b.) If there is a tie, the case could be sent to the retroactive system as part of the tie-breaker or simply discarded. I haven't really figured this part out yet.
Edited by mrpandaman - July 20, 2013 at 5:22 PM
@ryokishine:My point is, even if you perceive it that way, it isn't reality. You have been speaking in a condescending manner whether you think you have or not. You poisoned the well from the beginning, and your unwillingness to listen continues to make this more about your flawed tone than the subject you apparently care about.
You may be different from other people, but it doesn't mean you don't know how to treat them courteously. If someone doesn't give you the same courtesy, you can just ignore them and focus on someone else. But this petty back and forth just makes you look full of yourself. LoL doesn't need more people who are full of themselves. It needs more people who have some humility, are willing to actually listen, and display some courtesy toward others.
This
I've really tried to display some sort of courteous behavior towards the people who responded to this blog, especially if they followed the instructions and gave constructive feedback, even if it wasn't approving feedback. You two are great examples of people who have disapproved of my ideas and how I presented them and have had a completely civil experience with me. It's here for everyone to see, it can be done. When I have 10 people attacking my ideas and not backing up their statements, I grow impatient. It's natural and I need to work on it. I'll try to do better in the future.
@anwar: I actually can't program. That's why I applied as to the Community Development Team. I don't need to program if I can simply direct people who can on what we need to implement. I could always learn to program if they'd like me to! I think that would be very fun! Thanks for the feedback :P
MY E-PEEN IS HUUUUUUUUUGE
Dude, I just watched Drew land a helicopter. His e-peen is considerably bigger than any of ours.
Oh my. I do declare this tantalizing discourse regarding the fair and virile gentleman that is Drew Scanlon has set my cheeks ablaze and my heart aflutter!
@mrpandaman said:
@ryokishine said:@slag: Very insightful. But, you've missed a crucial detail. These are forums and blogs. I'm a fellow consumer, just like the rest of these people. I'm not bound by a company policy yet. Neither are these people. I treated them with the respect they deserved, at first. After they decided to make it personal, I gave them a little salt in return. In no way did I insult their intelligence. I politely discouraged the from continuing to post on my blog or, in the other situation, on the thread that I created. As a fellow League of Legends player, I did my best here to be constructive. That's all Riot can ask of me.
In my defense, Riot should realize that it takes a special person to give fellow consumers this much grace... These people should think about grace and what it means. Reflect on it. I've done the best I can as a peer in this blog.
Riot if they needed/wanted to would look at your blogs and forum posts if they considered hiring you; It would be part of a background check of sorts.
The part I italicized, makes you seem like you think you're above everyone.
On to your actually suggestions/argument:
- Your system relies on the honesty of all players involved. Because of this, it allows too much bias for premade teams to abuse the system. It would also allow trollish players/groups to abuse it as well by means of tilting votes.
- The system you ask for is an extra layer that doesn't need to be there. In theory, your idea may be golden (like the No Child Left Behind Act), but in practice won't work or is actually not good at all (like the No Child Left Behind Act). The reason it won't is because not all players care, most players will want to move onto the next game. Those that do simply press the report button.
- If a player has invested into the game and they fear of a permaban due to being reported for bad behavior, then if they do get permabanned they have no one but themselves to blame for losing access to all their paid for items. Knowing a ban could come, they should have reformed their attitude sooner.
I would also like to make note, so that you realize this yourself that in the second page of LoL thread, you say that you are not doing this for selfish reasons, yet that wall of text you have on that page screams I'm being selfish. You're trying to garner community support but you seem like you would take all credit for it without crediting the community.
@mrpandaman: The part you italicized was my attempt to teach the people reading my blog something about a concept that they need to give topic writers. The entire time it's literally been me vs. them. That's a very taxing situation, and I've probably been at this for a little over ~10 hours today? Seriously, cut me some slack. Sometimes people need a little grace. If you think that's condescending, have some compassion on me. I've gotten very little from this crowd, and I'm exhausted.
In response to your comments on my suggestions:
1.) My system does revolve around honesty. That's why it's anti-premade-report-ganging. The team opposite to those premades doesn't have any incentive to lie about whether or not the team reporting their teammate is abusing the system or not. They will literally be asked "Does the enemy team's report and reasoning look legitimate to you?" The answer will be yes/no, and they will be provided with a full chat log including all chat and both teams' team chat, as well as the reasoning (if any was given) that the enemy team decided to report that player so that they can make an informed decision on the spot. The process will literally take less than 2 minutes per game.
2.) The extra layer does need to be there since it gives players who weren't in the game an added sense of utility (examples of how NOT to act in-game, and examples of behavior that is reportable). You're comparing my system to a US act of law. That's totally unnecessary and is a far too complex analogy. Players that simply press the report button aren't going to succeed in the new system because of the extra layer. Getting a legitimate report will be harder to do, but when it's legitimate, it will be crystal clear, and that player is going to feel a material loss more times than simply getting their account perma-banned, so they're more likely to learn from it.
3.) About your note: This is a very unselfish reason. I simply want to make this game better because I enjoy it. That's not a crime. If I'm the one bringing the community together and sacrificing this amount of time, why shouldn't I take some credit? I'm not even being paid right now. Compassion and grace. Give a dog a bone.
@ryokishine: So you not only want to be hired, you want a high-ranking job where you can tell others what to do... Wow.
No, I just want some input. Simply being a member of the Riot Corporation would allow me to do that. I don't need to be a department head or anything of that sort. All I have to do is be an amazing employee and I would be able to influence the company that way.
@mrpandaman: The part you italicized was my attempt to teach the people reading my blog something about a concept that they need to give topic writers. The entire time it's literally been me vs. them. That's a very taxing situation, and I've probably been at this for a little over ~10 hours today? Seriously, cut me some slack. Sometimes people need a little grace. If you think that's condescending, have some compassion on me. I've gotten very little from this crowd, and I'm exhausted.
The thing you lack in noticing is the tone of your writing, it's a very condescending tone. You also lack in ignoring people who aren't responding to the topic and further egg them on by responding to them. While the initial blame is on them, you have to grow thick skin and ignore those comments. You saying that you're trying to teach people, already implies that you think you know better than them. If you knew better, you would have never responded to them in the first place. I can't have compassion for someone who thinks too highly of them self (and I came to that conclusion based on many of your posts).
@anwar: I actually can't program. That's why I applied as to the Community Development Team. I don't need to program if I can simply direct people who can on what we need to implement. I could always learn to program if they'd like me to! I think that would be very fun! Thanks for the feedback :P
If you want to be part of the community team you have to be part of a team. I mean no offense by this, but after reading a lot of your posts and judging you based on all those posts, it is very hard to picture you as part of a team. To be honest, I think it'd be hard to work with you.
So... Am I getting this right? Someone didn't get the right response on the LoL forums because they thought their ideas would be heralded. Now that person is linking said ideas here in order to attempt to garner a more positive response. However, to their dismay, they have gotten an even less positive or thoroughly non-committal response since LoL isn't as big as it is on... oh, say the fucking LoL forums?
Then, when he gets his responses, he asks everyone to police their thoughts and only say what he wants them to say? While derailing the thread isn't recommended, you can't necessarily stop people because the general feeling is that who cares... Can't say you didn't try!
Well to justify posting here I will stroke your ego and praise your ideas, because it's all you really wanted to feel validated in life. You did a thing! You wrote words on the internet and had opinions! I'm proud of you! have a good day
How in the hell is this still alive. Let the guy and his bad ideas stay where they belong, which is in shame at the LoL forums. Not here.
When in the fuck did Giantbomb become the site people go to when they wanna vent because this other site didn't agree with them? At least it's not fucking GAF this time.
How in the hell is this still alive. Let the guy and his bad ideas stay where they belong, which is in shame at the LoL forums. Not here.
When in the fuck did Giantbomb become the site people go to when they wanna vent because this other site didn't agree with them? At least it's not fucking GAF this time.
someones mad....
Posted by mrpandaman - July 20, 2013 at 9:05 PM
@mrpandaman: The part you italicized was my attempt to teach the people reading my blog something about a concept that they need to give topic writers. The entire time it's literally been me vs. them. That's a very taxing situation, and I've probably been at this for a little over ~10 hours today? Seriously, cut me some slack. Sometimes people need a little grace. If you think that's condescending, have some compassion on me. I've gotten very little from this crowd, and I'm exhausted.
The thing you lack in noticing is the tone of your writing, it's a very condescending tone. You also lack in ignoring people who aren't responding to the topic and further egg them on by responding to them. While the initial blame is on them, you have to grow thick skin and ignore those comments. You saying that you're trying to teach people, already implies that you think you know better than them. If you knew better, you would have never responded to them in the first place. I can't have compassion for someone who thinks too highly of them self (and I came to that conclusion based on many of your posts).
@ryokishine said:
@anwar: I actually can't program. That's why I applied as to the Community Development Team. I don't need to program if I can simply direct people who can on what we need to implement. I could always learn to program if they'd like me to! I think that would be very fun! Thanks for the feedback :P
If you want to be part of the community team you have to be part of a team. I mean no offense by this, but after reading a lot of your posts and judging you based on all those posts, it is very hard to picture you as part of a team. To be honest, I think it'd be hard to work with you.
@mrpandaman: My tone of writing is objective, not subjective. If you've not figured that out by now, then I don't know what to tell you. I simply make points to validate or invalidate other people's points about the topic. My brain is different than their brain. I may very well know more than someone else about a topic. I may know less. It depends on the person and the topic. That's common sense.
Like I mentioned before, the way I convey my thoughts and opinions on these forums is a work-in-progress. Your feedback has helped me take a few steps in the right direction. I am a person that would force the team to think. Time wouldn't be wasted. A lot of people join a team because they want to lighten their load. I'm joining a team because I want to utilize the team's collective ability to get tasks done more efficiently. I challenge people in the hopes of them challenging me, as you have.
In 2 pages, this blog has gotten more done in terms of people getting to know me and my ideas than many blogs before it (keep in mind, I think all of you are complete strangers to me). The basic premise I work from is the Socratic Method: "Relentlessly seeking the truth by critically questioning the situation, and critically evaluating the answers to those questions."
This is one of the most efficient ways to conduct blogs and forums, but I think that someone above was right when they said that I can ignore some posts since they are completely negative and not worth responding to since it makes me sound "petty." I think it's easier to ignore "trolls" when you're in a position of authority posting in a more public venue (a Riot employee posting on the Company's forums can choose who he/she wants to respond to because the Community is simply grateful for a response - that is notthe dynamic here. My responses are subject to more criticism than a Riot employee's because they come from only me, not the Company, and they are posted on my blog or my thread. It's on me to defend those thoughts myself. A Riot employee doesn't have those burdens.
Posted by EarlessShrimp - July 21, 2013 at 4:24 AM
So... Am I getting this right? Someone didn't get the right response on the LoL forums because they thought their ideas would be heralded. Now that person is linking said ideas here in order to attempt to garner a more positive response. However, to their dismay, they have gotten an even less positive or thoroughly non-committal response since LoL isn't as big as it is on... oh, say the fucking LoL forums?
Then, when he gets his responses, he asks everyone to police their thoughts and only say what he wants them to say? While derailing the thread isn't recommended, you can't necessarily stop people because the general feeling is that who cares... Can't say you didn't try!
Well to justify posting here I will stroke your ego and praise your ideas, because it's all you really wanted to feel validated in life. You did a thing! You wrote words on the internet and had opinions! I'm proud of you! have a good day
Posted by living4theday258 - July 21, 2013 at 7:21 AM
How in the hell is this still alive. Let the guy and his bad ideas stay where they belong, which is in shame at the LoL forums. Not here.
When in the fuck did Giantbomb become the site people go to when they wanna vent because this other site didn't agree with them? At least it's not fucking GAF this time.
someones mad....
@tobbrobb:No one is asking you to read any of this - if you're uninterested, you'd not be reading it. It is interesting, so you are reading it. Case-in-point I suppose...
Man, the way you conduct yourself on the forums makes it pretty clear you never going to get a community relations job at any developer/publisher.
@ryokishine: Your suggestions are unrealistic and wouldn't change anything.
Also if you want people to take you seriously try to not start your rant talking about your spiritual awakening.
It seems like an unnecessary extra layer. If you're going to keep the reactive system what's the point in the other system? Honestly, the reason games ARTS games don't punish people for reports immediately after games is because of 1. the effect of stacks / groups of friends gang-reporting a player and 2. people in the specific game who are biased and possibly heated after a tense match full of trolls are going to vote and punish more harshly due to being frustrated. The entire point of the Tribunal is that calm-headed outsiders can vote on punishments on games they weren't involved in. The people who actually take the time to do this are highly likely not to be people who auto-punish for no reason. This is why the Tribunal is actually successful. I used to be active in the Tribunal when I still played LoL and I probably clicked punished less than 50% of the time, and from stats posted earlier it seems false punishments rarely happen.
This blog has served its purpose. It is closed. Thanks for reading everyone. I will not be replying to anything after this point.
Edit: Oops. I lied.
Thread I made on the topic got locked in under 12 hours. That means the devs are really happy with my ideas. Something's going to change soon, despite the negativity displayed here.
Link to new locked thread: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=39994281#post39994281
@ryokishine: Your threads repeatedly getting closed is a good thing?
Isn't this just more of an indication that you're failing in your efforts? I know it can be difficult to have some self-reflection sometimes, but in this case, I think it's clear that what you're doing is different from what you think you're doing. You may believe that you're speaking to people in a proper manner, but just because you believe that doesn't make it so. You are actively failing your ideas by them being tied to how you convey them. You may want things to be about your ideas instead of you, but your problems with talking to people are betraying your ideas. You need some self-awareness.
I'm sorry you're having such difficulties, as I can understand it can be frustrating to accept one's personal failings, but in this case, you are doing yourself and everyone no favors by ignoring that you really do have some issues with how you convey your thoughts. Please consider taking some time to think about how you talk to people and see where you might be able to improve yourself to the point where you can possibly convince others of something.
I'm just going to put this out there - an exact quote from the first forum link OP listed. No, really, read through the entire thing.
4 Weeks Ago I promise it's legit, I'm using this post as an example of the work I want to do for Riot before I even get on the phone with them. I'm proving I can do the job before I get the job to prepare for my interview. So basically, I'm trying to secure my job position by proving to my future employer that I want my job so badly, that I did it before I got it... for free. |
Secondly... you made this Giant Bomb account just to advertise your post over on the LoL community - furthermore telling us that you're "not a giantbomb.com member".
What the hell are you doing here then?
Locking this down.
This discussion almost immediately went off the rails and hasn't been very productive for anyone. Directing people from the LoL forums to post their trolling and negative feedback here probably didn't help.
If you want more productive discussion, I highly suggest taking a moment to reassess the way you're delivering your ideas and responding to criticism before creating another thread, whether it be here, the LoL forums, or any other site.
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment