"Only Elitists call streamlining, "dumb-down." As if anything that isn't overly complicated is too simple and only intended for toddlers. "It isn't a game unless I'm spending hours in menus and reading text!!!" "
You win A THOUSAND internets. "Dumb-Down" is EASLIY the WORST saying of this generation. I never rage about anything but seeing that word pisses me off.
As for Mass Effect and KOTOR. I played both and saw no difference. For Dragon Age 2 as long as the writing is just as good as the first I don't care what they change.
" i really can't see how they could've "dumb down" kotors dialog system seeing as it was all: 1.) yes, i'll help you 2.) no, in fact i'm gonna force lightning this entire planet of kittens because you bothered me might as well just make it BLUE=GOOD and RED=BAD and save yourself some writing "
Yeah, except now you don't even have to read. Just hold down and press X.
Mass Effect is about shaping your Shepard, not creating your own completely new character. Shepard's a good guy; the plot of the game doesn't make sense if he's anything else. No, you can't be evil, but you can sure as hell be a douchebag, so long as you're "working toward the greater good." You can still totally abuse your authority, as well.
If anything, I feel this system is smarter than the old one. Gauging which is the "most good" or "most evil" option was exactly what was wrong with those games! You didn't make decisions because you were roleplaying or because you were focused on what seemed to be the right option; you were just deciding whether you wanted to play as a good guy or a bad guy. It's the classic "feeding third-world starving children or raping nuns" conundrum that Yahtzee likes to talk about; in those old games, your alignment was a system that could be gamed rather than something that developed as you had conversations.
Basically, I think it's insane to say that having multiple ways to get to the greater good is "dumber" than picking your alignment and choosing the appropriate dialogue option as a result.
@gamefreak9: No, if anything it's MORE intelligent since the Renegade options aren't always "evil" whereas in KOTOR there was a strict line between Good and Evil choices (the Evil choices weren't so much "evil" as they were you being an unrepentant jerk).
" @gamefreak9: No, if anything it's MORE intelligent since the Renegade options aren't always "evil" whereas in KOTOR there was a strict line between Good and Evil choices (the Evil choices weren't so much "evil" as they were you being an unrepentant jerk). "
I wouldn't call it more intelligent, just a different kind of stupid. The thing that always bothers me with Bioware games is that they handle choice basically as a black&white thing, its good vs evil, nice guy vs asshole, while it really should be just about different ways to tackle a problem. In ME you can basically always use the good guy choice and it will come out exactly as expected.
" @gamefreak9: No, if anything it's MORE intelligent since the Renegade options aren't always "evil" whereas in KOTOR there was a strict line between Good and Evil choices (the Evil choices weren't so much "evil" as they were you being an unrepentant jerk). "
I wouldn't call it more intelligent, just a different kind of stupid. The thing that always bothers me with Bioware games is that they handle choice basically as a black&white thing, its good vs evil, nice guy vs asshole, while it really should be just about different ways to tackle a problem. In ME you can basically always use the good guy choice and it will come out exactly as expected. "
I partially agree and partially disagree with what you're saying. It is still black and white between the choices, but just because KOTOR's choices weren't color coded (which really ME2 only does when you're using the charm/intimidate option), the choices were still "Top Choice=Good. Middle choice=neutral. Bottom choice=evil. And it was the most generic, cookie-cutter definition of evil, it was being evil for it's own sake, there was no impression that your guy thought he was doing the right thing. That at least came across in ME's renegade dialog options, that your character was doing the right thing, just the wrong way. In any event, I do agree that I wish certain choices would backfire if you went Paragon/Renegade, but I don't really recall that happening in KOTOR either, so I think it's a broader problem across RPGs. Though Dragon Age actually had a few choices where thinking you were doing the right thing could go wrong. And The Witcher actually did it better than any others (you didn't realize you were making the wrong choice until the very end of the game).
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