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#1 Edited by xaLieNxGrEyx (2605 posts) -
#2 Posted by MB (12409 posts) -

@xalienxgreyx: profanity is not permitted in thread titles, so I changed "shit" to "puppy" until you can come up with something more suitable.

Moderator
#3 Posted by GalacticPunt (1057 posts) -

What a load of puppy.

#4 Edited by Oldirtybearon (4811 posts) -

I hereby declare that Piece of Puppy stand in as a euphemism for all swears for all time.

On topic: yeah, I can't say I'm surprised. Everyone thinks it's safe to trust Microsoft again when the truth is they were just biding their time. If I were an indie developer I couldn't justify self-publishing on the Xbone due to them actively trying to take money out of my pocket like that. Hopefully enough developers will recognize that doing business with Microsoft would be poisonous to their bottom line.

#5 Posted by Sergio (2127 posts) -

Puppy happens.

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#6 Posted by RonGalaxy (3168 posts) -

I hope someone makes a bigger stink about this, because that's genuinely awful of them

#7 Posted by Irvandus (2879 posts) -

Man Microsoft can go puppy themselves.

#8 Posted by ripelivejam (3965 posts) -

i don't know puppy from shinola :(

#9 Posted by Rafaelfc (1348 posts) -

Indies should just stay away from those policies and flood the PS4 and PC with their games.

That will either push Microsoft to revise their policy or the consumers to go where the games are.

#10 Posted by ArtisanBreads (3835 posts) -

Well pup me.

#11 Posted by laserguy (444 posts) -

Microsoft dont know thier assholes from a piece of puppy on a stick.

#12 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

@mb said:

@xalienxgreyx: profanity is not permitted in thread titles, so I changed "shit" to "puppy" until you can come up with something more suitable.

He's incapable of coming with something else other than MS bashing because reasons, so maybe don't expect a lot.

#13 Edited by SunBroZak (1116 posts) -

They can't possibly expect to keep this policy. They're just going to motivate indie devs to use other platforms.

#14 Posted by Demoskinos (14835 posts) -

@mb said:

@xalienxgreyx: profanity is not permitted in thread titles, so I changed "shit" to "puppy" until you can come up with something more suitable.

This is the best title change.

#15 Posted by jimmyfenix (3855 posts) -

I just want Sony to steal AMAZING FROG from ouya. That is the best Indie game i have seen in a long time.

#16 Posted by mosespippy (4183 posts) -

@sergio said:

Puppy happens.

Not if you get your Microsofts spayed or neutered.

#17 Edited by cloudnineboya (821 posts) -

this whole thread is puppy!.

#18 Posted by YoungFrey (1321 posts) -

@rafaelfc said:

Indies should just stay away from those policies and flood the PS4 and PC with their games.

That will either push Microsoft to revise their policy or the consumers to go where the games are.

Easy to say, but Indie devs need to get their titles in front of as many potential consumers as possible, so discounting an entire large market segment is probably a bad idea. Also, if some devs did boycott the XBox One, that would mean anyone who didn't would have less competition.

#19 Posted by BlackLagoon (1431 posts) -

This isn't really new - this was their policy for all games on 360 XBLA.

#20 Edited by TrafalgarLaw (1130 posts) -

@youngfrey said:

@rafaelfc said:

Indies should just stay away from those policies and flood the PS4 and PC with their games.

That will either push Microsoft to revise their policy or the consumers to go where the games are.

Easy to say, but Indie devs need to get their titles in front of as many potential consumers as possible, so discounting an entire large market segment is probably a bad idea. Also, if some devs did boycott the XBox One, that would mean anyone who didn't would have less competition.

I wouldn't worry too much, Xbox's days are numbered. Recent UK charts show that Knack (I puppy you not) outsold FM5, BF4 and all XB1 titles alltogether. Indies are going to make or break consoles this generation and Microsoft is showing their contempt at them. For now, boycotting XB1 would help their dev cycles instead of sitting on finished games while they try to even get it working on XB1.

#21 Posted by OneKillWonder_ (1746 posts) -

I'm gonna rip off your head and puppy down you neck.

I had a strong feeling they would pull something like this, though. MS's arbitrarily strict dumbass policies are why I went with the PS4. They seriously have no idea what they are doing anymore.

#22 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4513 posts) -

Who the puppy is even in charge over in the Xbox division at Microsoft? Fire that person and then fire like the 20 closest people under him/her. Then tell the next person they put in charge that if they even think about saying and/or doing something dumb, they're getting puppy fired too. It's amazing that even after they managed to turn this trainwreck around, they still seem hellbent on making sure they can screw up wherever possible.

#23 Edited by Cameron (600 posts) -

If you actually read the article it just says that games have to be available at the same time as on other platforms. So you can't make a game for PS4 and then put it out later on Xbox One. I don't see how this is a big deal, it's not like they are demanding that all games that come to Xbox One have to have an exclusivity period.

#24 Edited by Turkalurch (198 posts) -

Puppy Microsoft and their puppying puppy console and puppy terms.

#25 Edited by ripelivejam (3965 posts) -

well puppy.

#26 Edited by AltonBrown (950 posts) -

@jimmyfenix: God, Amazing Frog? is so fantastic. They set it in Swindon!

#27 Edited by Hosstile17 (763 posts) -

It is their way of trying to ensure that XBLA on Xbox One doesn't become a dumping ground for old ports. Probably a smart move.

#28 Posted by Sergio (2127 posts) -

@cameron said:

If you actually read the article it just says that games have to be available at the same time as on other platforms. So you can't make a game for PS4 and then put it out later on Xbox One. I don't see how this is a big deal, it's not like they are demanding that all games that come to Xbox One have to have an exclusivity period.

Not all independent developers are large enough to handle self-publishing on multiple platforms at once. They may focus on one platform first to recoup some of the cost of development, then publish on other platforms afterwards. The problem becomes that if they wanted to self-publish on Xbox One, they now have three options: delay publishing on other platforms until they're ready to publish on the Xbox One also; publish first on Xbox One, making it a de facto timed exclusive; don't publish on Xbox One at all.

If you're a small enough developer who hasn't decided on which platform to self-publish on first, this Microsoft policy does indeed serve as a demand that all self-published games come to Xbox One for an exclusive period before any other platform, since they wouldn't be able to come back and self-publish on the Xbox One if they publish on another platform first.

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#29 Posted by BisonHero (6527 posts) -

@blacklagoon said:

This isn't really new - this was their policy for all games on 360 XBLA.

That can't be true. I'm positive that some games came out the same day on both platforms (and Steam). Like, say, The Cave. Came out simultaneously on all downloadable platforms.

#30 Edited by BlackLagoon (1431 posts) -

@bisonhero: Oh, I see the OP explained the issue a bit clumsily. The problem is that Mircosoft demands games either come out first, or at the same time on Xbox. This means that if a dev already has a game ready for release on another platform, they have to delay it until the Xbox version is ready. It's particularly bad for smaller devs, who may not have the resources to develop several platforms at the same time, and can't afford to sit on a completed game instead of releasing it and getting money from the sales.

#31 Posted by TheHT (11266 posts) -

Fuckin bullpuppy man. M$ really needs to get their puppy together on all this indie stuff.

#32 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7096 posts) -

@mb: That's one hell of a title edit. Well done.

#33 Edited by DonutFever (3551 posts) -

More like MicroPuppy, amiright guys?

#34 Posted by Tennmuerti (8103 posts) -

@mb said:

@xalienxgreyx: profanity is not permitted in thread titles, so I changed "shit" to "puppy" until you can come up with something more suitable.

Oh man. Now I really really wish that this catches on on GB forums and everyone will just say puppy in their thread titles when they want to swear. And you will look back on this day with a sad resigned sigh, or glee, whatever.

#35 Posted by Demoskinos (14835 posts) -

@tennmuerti: Better yet there needs to be code that automatically turns profanity into puppies.

#36 Posted by joshwent (2207 posts) -

@sergio said:

@cameron said:

If you actually read the article it just says that games have to be available at the same time as on other platforms. So you can't make a game for PS4 and then put it out later on Xbox One. I don't see how this is a big deal, it's not like they are demanding that all games that come to Xbox One have to have an exclusivity period.

Not all independent developers are large enough to handle self-publishing on multiple platforms at once. They may focus on one platform first to recoup some of the cost of development, then publish on other platforms afterwards. The problem becomes that if they wanted to self-publish on Xbox One, they now have three options: delay publishing on other platforms until they're ready to publish on the Xbox One also; publish first on Xbox One, making it a de facto timed exclusive; don't publish on Xbox One at all.

If you're a small enough developer who hasn't decided on which platform to self-publish on first, this Microsoft policy does indeed serve as a demand that all self-published games come to Xbox One for an exclusive period before any other platform, since they wouldn't be able to come back and self-publish on the Xbox One if they publish on another platform first.

Compound that with the fact that most indie devs now pour all of their resources into a PC version first (if it's not a console exclusive game), and MS's policy becomes even more unreasonable.

#37 Posted by Sammo21 (3276 posts) -

The puppy has hit the fan...

Seriously though, I don't even know why people think Microsoft gives a crap about anything they can't control. I don't see why an indie dev would even make a game for the Xbone at this point.

#38 Posted by mlarrabee (2962 posts) -

You should all read the article before commenting.

#39 Edited by Humanity (9257 posts) -

People have really short memories these days and tend to forget that without Xbox Live Arcade a lot of these indie devs would have never published their games in the first place. Sony certainly wasn't offering anything at the time. Jonathan Blow can talk all the smack he wants about Microsoft these days, but it's thanks to their program and initiative into indie gaming during the early times of 360 that he enjoys the opportunities that he has today.

Online
#40 Edited by fisk0 (4113 posts) -
@joshwent said:

@sergio said:

@cameron said:

If you actually read the article it just says that games have to be available at the same time as on other platforms. So you can't make a game for PS4 and then put it out later on Xbox One. I don't see how this is a big deal, it's not like they are demanding that all games that come to Xbox One have to have an exclusivity period.

Not all independent developers are large enough to handle self-publishing on multiple platforms at once. They may focus on one platform first to recoup some of the cost of development, then publish on other platforms afterwards. The problem becomes that if they wanted to self-publish on Xbox One, they now have three options: delay publishing on other platforms until they're ready to publish on the Xbox One also; publish first on Xbox One, making it a de facto timed exclusive; don't publish on Xbox One at all.

If you're a small enough developer who hasn't decided on which platform to self-publish on first, this Microsoft policy does indeed serve as a demand that all self-published games come to Xbox One for an exclusive period before any other platform, since they wouldn't be able to come back and self-publish on the Xbox One if they publish on another platform first.

Compound that with the fact that most indie devs now pour all of their resources into a PC version first (if it's not a console exclusive game), and MS's policy becomes even more unreasonable.

Couldn't see anything about it in the article, but usually they don't apply those rules on PC games, only on competing consoles, so I'd think an indie developer who focuses on the PC version first, and then does console versions will be fine as long as the Xone version is released before or at the same time as on the other consoles.

#41 Edited by ShaggE (6454 posts) -

That's kinda pupped up, if you'll pardon my French poodle.

How has Rorie not taken this thread over yet?

#42 Posted by RoarImaDinosaur (191 posts) -

@joshwent said:

Compound that with the fact that most indie devs now pour all of their resources into a PC version first (if it's not a console exclusive game), and MS's policy becomes even more unreasonable.

It most likely only counts towards console platforms. PC is relatively safe when it comes to exclusive deals and all that other jazz.

#43 Posted by spraynardtatum (2953 posts) -

Why does Microsoft feel the need to consistently puppy the bed and puppy all over the small amount of goodwill they've been able to drum up since their puppy reveal?

#44 Posted by chiablo (929 posts) -

There's something to be said for delayed releases though. This worked out very well for some indie developers. When their game was released on the XBox 360, it would generate a lot of buzz and good reviews. Then when the PC version is released, people would say "Hey, I remember that game getting really great reviews, I'll grab it and check it out." Whereas if it was released simultaneously, it wouldn't get as much attention.

So maybe there's a bright side to this puppy after all.

#45 Posted by BisonHero (6527 posts) -

@humanity said:

People have really short memories these days and tend to forget that without Xbox Live Arcade a lot of these indie devs would have never published their games in the first place. Sony certainly wasn't offering anything at the time. Jonathan Blow can talk all the smack he wants about Microsoft these days, but it's thanks to their program and initiative into indie gaming during the early times of 360 that he enjoys the opportunities that he has today.

So fucking what? MS introduced/popularized the $10-$15 downloadable game. Good for them, but nobody owes Microsoft a fucking thing, especially when they have shitty business policies. There are multiple places to release indie games, and your implication that everybody should be deeply thankful and respectful to Microsoft just because they did it first is kind of sickening. It's not like everybody still owes Ford because the Model T was one of the first cheap mass produced cars. It's business, life moves on, and Blow and Edmund McMillen can talk as much shit about Microsoft as they want.

Besides, now most devs know their indie game will sell better on Steam anyways, so the Xbox isnt even as big a deal.

#46 Posted by BisonHero (6527 posts) -

@blacklagoon said:

@bisonhero: Oh, I see the OP explained the issue a bit clumsily. The problem is that Mircosoft demands games either come out first, or at the same time on Xbox. This means that if a dev already has a game ready for release on another platform, they have to delay it until the Xbox version is ready. It's particularly bad for smaller devs, who may not have the resources to develop several platforms at the same time, and can't afford to sit on a completed game instead of releasing it and getting money from the sales.

OK, yeah, OP is just an idiot. He is really misrepresenting what is actually going on.

#47 Posted by Marokai (2975 posts) -

@humanity said:

People have really short memories these days and tend to forget that without Xbox Live Arcade a lot of these indie devs would have never published their games in the first place. Sony certainly wasn't offering anything at the time. Jonathan Blow can talk all the smack he wants about Microsoft these days, but it's thanks to their program and initiative into indie gaming during the early times of 360 that he enjoys the opportunities that he has today.

....okay?

#48 Posted by Wolfgame (754 posts) -

Internet consumes puppy like crack, if you want a successful forum post just puppy it.

#49 Posted by Sergio (2127 posts) -

@chiablo said:

There's something to be said for delayed releases though. This worked out very well for some indie developers. When their game was released on the XBox 360, it would generate a lot of buzz and good reviews. Then when the PC version is released, people would say "Hey, I remember that game getting really great reviews, I'll grab it and check it out." Whereas if it was released simultaneously, it wouldn't get as much attention.

So maybe there's a bright side to this puppy after all.

That isn't the case here. It's not staging a release on different platforms, it's delaying one platform so that it comes out when another platform's version is ready.

You should all read the article before commenting.

Some of us did from the start. And?

@humanity said:

People have really short memories these days and tend to forget that without Xbox Live Arcade a lot of these indie devs would have never published their games in the first place. Sony certainly wasn't offering anything at the time. Jonathan Blow can talk all the smack he wants about Microsoft these days, but it's thanks to their program and initiative into indie gaming during the early times of 360 that he enjoys the opportunities that he has today.

So this somehow excuses Microsoft's behavior now?

Online
#50 Edited by EXTomar (4736 posts) -

@humanity said:

People have really short memories these days and tend to forget that without Xbox Live Arcade a lot of these indie devs would have never published their games in the first place. Sony certainly wasn't offering anything at the time. Jonathan Blow can talk all the smack he wants about Microsoft these days, but it's thanks to their program and initiative into indie gaming during the early times of 360 that he enjoys the opportunities that he has today.

Its true because some have poor memories because they would write rise of indie devs is all due to XBox Live Arcade instead of acknowledging the changes in Flash and other frameworks and easy access to cloud services that allowed indies create powerful games without serious, "mortgage multiple houses" kind of capital. But who would do that?