#1 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Amongst MMORPG players, at least the ones I know, DOTA and LoL and such are very popular. It irks me that MMORPGs with instanced matched PvP haven't picked up on it yet, in terms of actually offering a MOBA-like battleground/warzone/whatever equivalent. It's a pretty obvious move and seeing how one map kept DOTA going for like a decade, it definitely would well be worth the effort. The longevity is off the hook.

Did I miss something or why don't MMORPGs deliver MOBA/DOTA inspired instanced matched PvP? Strikes me as odd.

#2 Posted by Codeacious (960 posts) -

It makes sense mostly, but the main issue would be the whole RPG progression of MOBAs. When you go in with an MMO character in PvP, it's natural to have that character enter and exit with the same stats, skills, and talent build. You couldn't really "level up" as you do in MOBAs. It would still work, but the map would lose a dimension of traditional MOBAs.

#3 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@isnipeyoudie said:

It makes sense mostly, but the main issue would be the whole RPG progression of MOBAs. When you go in with an MMO character in PvP, it's natural to have that character enter and exit with the same stats, skills, and talent build. You couldn't really "level up" as you do in MOBAs. It would still work, but the map would lose a dimension of traditional MOBAs.

I'm no MOBA player, so some of the depth eludes me, but as long as you earn a ressource by killing creeps which you invest in stuff like temporary buffs for you and your own creeps, laying down/repairing turrets, summoning extra powerful NPC and god knows what else one could come up with, that aspect could be retained mostly. Level-ups are persistent of course, but there's a lot left to 'design a game' with outside of leveling up your character.

#4 Posted by Sjupp (1910 posts) -

I think it would be too complicated. MOBA's are pretty complex and have a somewhat deep metagame to it while each hero only have four or five abilities and six item-slots. You'd have to do some crazy balancing. I'm going to take WoW as an example because that's the MMO I played. (Although it was over a year ago, some of it would still make sense)

Part of the problem is the PVP/PVE. Imagine a 5 man group consisting of a tank, a healer and three DPS. That is not a good PVP setup but you could probably push your way through with creep waves etc.

Anothing thing is gear. In WoW you (almost?) never face an opponent that has the exact same build as you. I don't really know you'd solve this problem. Do you use your current gear? MOBA characters basically start out naked and then purchase items throughout the game. MMORPG champions do not. Loot is such an essential part to MMORPG's that I don't know how you'd solve that. Do you give everybody the same gear from the start and then let them upgrade that somehow during the course of the match?

WoW has never been truly balanced. Nothing that complicated ever has been. Hell, LoL or DotA 2 isn't truly balanced and they are way more simple than WoW.

When initially thinking about it, I get why you'd think a MOBA in a MMORPG would work but when taking a closer look, I'd think you'd be hard pressed to actually make one work in practice.

#5 Posted by Shirogane (3579 posts) -

@Seppli said:

@isnipeyoudie said:

It makes sense mostly, but the main issue would be the whole RPG progression of MOBAs. When you go in with an MMO character in PvP, it's natural to have that character enter and exit with the same stats, skills, and talent build. You couldn't really "level up" as you do in MOBAs. It would still work, but the map would lose a dimension of traditional MOBAs.

I'm no MOBA player, so some of the depth eludes me, but as long as you earn a ressource by killing creeps which you invest in stuff like temporary buffs for you and your own creeps, laying down/repairing turrets, summoning extra powerful NPC and god knows what else one could come up with, that aspect could be retained mostly. Level-ups are persistent of course, but there's a lot left to 'design a game' with outside of leveling up your character.

Quite a few WoW battlegrounds are pretty much what you're describing, Basically DotA styled maps with a few changes.

One other thing i should mention is that MOBA stands for multiplayer online battle arena. Basically, every single PvP battleground in every single MMO kinda counts as a MOBA from this definition. There's nothing saying there has to be a level up system, turrents, lanes, creeps, items, etc. It's just that people associate the word with the most popular iteration, being DotA.

#6 Posted by RIDEBIRD (1233 posts) -

Well, there really isn't a BG with creep, towers etc. But it's totally something Blizzard could do, and this is a great question. I'd love that!

#7 Posted by Nasos100 (727 posts) -

i think something like this is in the new WoW expansion

#8 Posted by Benny (1953 posts) -

@Seppli: Google Azshara Crater, there's a lot of speculation that this will be a DOTA style battleground in the next WoW expansion, couldn't find any sort of official word myself though. Haven't paid any real attention to anything wow related for going on 2 years now though so it might just be rumors.

The pandaria pokemon stuff is never going to pull me back in but the introduction of this type of DOTA-esque PVP is cool and I would love to see something like it in guild wars 2, cause that's a game I'm actually interested in playing.

#9 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8699 posts) -
#10 Posted by Deleth (250 posts) -

@Ertard said:

Well, there really isn't a BG with creep, towers etc. But it's totally something Blizzard could do, and this is a great question. I'd love that!

There once was, the old Alterac. It ended up being an hours long slugfest. Not that there's something wrong with that. But I don't really want all kind of BGs to be like that. The focus of multiplayer should be Player vs Player and not Player vs Creeps of other Players.

This kind of map would most likely end up being pretty inbalanced, since people join with different gear. And it would show even more when you have all kind of Mobs running around doing most of the fighting and some people couldn't even stand up to those mobs while organized groups would have it even easier.

Wait, now that I think about it. I usually play with an organized group with people who have good gear, use ts and actually work together when I play one of my pvp chars. I just changed my opinion. I absolutely need this. Finally it would be even easier to slaughter random groups and bad equipped people!

#11 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@Benny:

That's an awesome rumour. Will look into that on my inevitable stint in WoW when the expansion hits.

#12 Posted by StarvingGamer (8379 posts) -

Yo fuck Alterac Valley.

#13 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

Yo fuck Alterac Valley.

Indeed, Alterac kinda is similar in its basic, come to think of it. Especially early days Alterac with its much higher emphasis on NPCs and player triggered NPC events. Though I'd love it to be way more personal, like a group of 5-10 vs 5-10 and the NPC stuff be way more dynamic and involved - much like DOTA. 2 groups each team, 3 lanes (or whatever they're called), and constantly spawning waves of NPCs. By killing creeps and such, players earn a ressource to trigger special events/spawn a strong NPC/reinforce towers and such.

#14 Posted by Jimbo (9869 posts) -

Would be kinda cool if you were (temporarily) set back to level 1 and levelled up super quickly / got mad lootz for the duration of the match. You could use it to get a sneak peak at different classes / try new builds etc.

#15 Posted by RIDEBIRD (1233 posts) -

@Deleth: Well, kinda. It sure had some elements of it. Didn't have lanes, constant creep or levels tho.

#16 Edited by Jumanji (447 posts) -

The real question is how blizzard slept so hard on monetizing DOTA...