Need insight into these RPGs!

Hey fellow bombers! I've been sifting through my backlog as I periodically do, and need some help with some big RPGs I have no real knowledge of. They ended up on my list because they were well received, and exist in genres I've typically liked. However, being extremely long RPGs, and that I have little time to tackle this stuff, it would be helpful to know more about these games when prioritizing. That's where you knowledgeable folks come in :)

For each of these games, could someone who's played them explain a little about what makes them stand out compared to other seemingly similar RPGs? That is, what's the hook for these games, and what could make them worth playing (or not worth playing as the case may be) if I've played a lot of other RPGs? For the older games, another question is how well do they hold up? I know this is a weird list, but thanks in advance for any insight!

Dark Cloud 2
Lunar: Silver Star
Skies of Arcadia Legends
Tales of Vesperia (the only Tales game I've played is Symphonia, but Vesperia is regularly cited as one of the best- I assume it's pretty similar?)
Ultima series (never played any of them, so a secondary question would be which one to try)
Xenogears
Grandia
Legend of Heroes (I know there's the Trails in the Sky and Trails of Cold Steel subseries, so any insight into those differences is also appreciated)
Lost Odyssey
Ogre Battle 64 (I've played Tactics Ogre games before (Knight of Lodis and Let Us Cling Together), is this pretty similar?)
Valkyrie Profile

Trails in the Sky is a near perfect execution on just the basic fundamentals of a JRPG. It has a wonderful cast, a very touching story, and simple but totally solid turn based combat. Cold Steel is very similar but I'd put it on a somewhat lower priority since it doesn't stick the landing quite as well.

I know it doesn't sound like much of a hook but Legend of Heroes is probably the best thing going now for JRPGs.

@majormitch:

• Skies of Arcadia is basically Windwaker sailing exploration with JRPG combat and tropes but came out before Windwaker so felt more mind blowing (plus it's about Sky Pirates!). Doubt it holds up super well. Was pretty grindy and long back even then discovering islands. Light hearted Fun times though! Definitely one of the signature titles of the Dreamcast,
• Xenogears - Asked a lot deeper philosophical questions than JRPGS did at the time. Featured an isometric angle camera you could spin in environments. Combat focused on martial Arts and Mechs. Some of the story stuff likely holds up, but that badly nose dives near the end where you can tell they ran out of money. Xenogears kinda felt like the Metal Gear Solid of JRPGs in some ways. It's the forefather of Xenosaga and Xenoblade series. So if you like/don't like those, you'll probably feel the same about Xenogears. I think gears is better than all what came after it though.
• Dark Cloud 2 - Limited experience with this one. My understanding the hook was always the town building aspect which was much improved over 1, which I did play a lot of. Had Zelda-ish like combat and randomly generated dungeons and crafting. I think for some it kinda scratched a little of that Diablo itch, which was hard to get your fix on consoles at the time. I doubt it holds up well, games play better now and the story at least in 1 was aimed at pretty young kids...I have 2 but couldn't stick with it for long. The story telling and stuff was just too basic and a little twee for me.
• Ogre Battle 64- I didn't play much of this as I didn't enjoy March of the Black Queen much (too hands off combat for my tastes). I feel like it was loved primarily for being a collector's item when the genre was just starting to become popular in the US. I knew a guy who hooked so hard on this game he got in trouble at school. Some people just really love the SRPG combat.

The rest I have an idea of the appeal, but not enough experience to have anything useful to say. I'm pretty sure @thatpinguino covered Lost odyssey at some point in depth in his podcast or blogs. I'd check out his thoughts there

http://www.giantbomb.com/lost-odyssey/3030-2719/forums/

@danielkempster is playing Grandia right now, so check out his blogs for that one.

@sparky_buzzsaw is the man when it comes to the Tale series. I'm pretty sure he has played Vesperia. I'd ask him what he thinks

If I were going to play just one now, I'd play Xenogears or Valkyrie Profille, maybe Lost Odyssey.

You should play a Final Fantasy game.

Not sure I'd recommend playing Lost Odyssey at this point but if there's a video that collects all of the dream short stories that would be ideal.

@majormitch: Lost Odyssey is a really weird game. the gameplay is solid, if a bit traditional. The story takes a great conceit and largely goes nowhere with it. However, the game contains a series of short stories that are some of the best written works of narrative an any game. So I would say play it for the Thousand Years of Dreams short stories and speed through the rest of it.

@majormitch:

Dark Cloud 2 is a terrific action-RPG with a great sense of style, procedurally generated dungeons, and enough mini-games to keep a person distracted while grinding out a few levels or searching for the right parts to build their towns. It's a remarkably good game even today and I think it holds up better than its spiritual successor Rogue Galaxy.

Vesperia is, by and large, very similar to Symphonia in terms of gameplay and mechanics. I'm of the opinion that the characters at at their best in either Vesperia or Xillia, but there are some crazy people who will tell you Symphonia had better characters. Either way, if Symphonia didn't set your world on fire, there's no real point in revisiting this series. That was a great example of what's best in the series, so if it didn't work for you, don't bother.

Xenogears is one of the conceptually raddest RPGs on the PS1. It was a touch dificult, from what I remember, and you'll want to keep multiple saves to avoid getting stuck in certain areas without a way to level, but it's definitely way, way up there in terms of scope and story for RPGs of its era - and of all time, for that matter.

Grandia, frankly, is for JRPG enthusiasts only. It's not a bad game by any means, but there's just not enough there to warrant putting it above the aforementioned games. It's very bland, takes far too long to get to its best character moments, and its Japanese-ness in terms of the creepy factor of the children involved is sky high. That said, I really liked the combat system and I think if you ever find the time, it's worth a look if you can invest a couple of dozen hours into seeing the best of what it has to offer.

Skip Lost Odyssey. It's undercooked in a lot of ways, and it weaves its lore - probably the best part of the game - in such a boring, uninspired way that it's hard to recommend. Plus, there are two of the most annoying party members in JRPG history in the form of the children you take on. Ugh.

Ogre Battle's an interesting bit of hardcore strategy JRPGness, but honestly, it's largely forgettable. If you're really into SRPGs, I'd recommend Disgaea 5 or something with a bit more modern bent to it.

Xenogears is my favorite jrpg of all time and looks like a few people have already got you covered on what makes that game special so I won't harp on it. But seriously it has the best story that I've ever experienced. Full stop.

Although I didn't finish Lunar: Silver Star (rented it) I can say that its story and character interactions are top notch. As far as the combat goes it's a pretty standard turn based system but has a few hooks with regard to where your characters are positioned. The characters are all super well drawn too. Been a while since I've played it but the thing I remember about it the most is that it has a lot of charm. Also the intro song is infectious. I definitely feel comfortable recommending it.

Edit: Just remembered I also played the Dreamcast version of Skies of Arcadia and do remember liking it quite a bit. It actually has a pretty unique naval combat mechanic in addition to the face to face battles. Your ship has equipment slots just like the characters do (actually it's kinda like Xenogears in that respect) where you can kit out the guns and whatnot. I do, however, remember the encounter rate being pretty high and it is a bit of a grind at times.

I've only played two of the games on that list - Vesperia and Lost Odyssey.

You should definitely play Vesperia. It was the first Tales game I had played and it's one of my favorite JRPGs ever. I don't know if that game is the exception to the rule or not for the series though - I tried both Zestiria and Berseria and absolutely hated nearly everything about them.

Lost Odyssey is a weird one. A lot of good stuff and interesting ideas in that game that are buried underneath layers of crap. For example, the concept is really cool, but the characters are all really blah. There are neat ideas in combat, but they're buried beneath a really boring random battle system. The writing in the "memories" you pick up is really good, but the main plot is super boring. At the time, some of the character animations were really good, but the environmental design was boring and looked muddy.

@majormitch: Vesperia IS symphonia, with a largely less serious story, better graphics and a couple of new mechanics. I liked it a lot, it had been long enough since Symphonia that I didn't mind the similarities.

If you have to ask about those RPG's then you are already not going to enjoy them.

Skies if Arcadia was a decent RPG on the Dreamcast - a system without RPG's, so the system owners gravitated to it like it was something special, but the only thing special about it was that it existed. Playing the game just felt like it was a B-tier version of Wild Arms 2.

Grandia had a decent combat system, but that was it. The problem with that game is that the random encounters happen every five steps so the combat system becomes 99% of what you experience in the game.

Xenogears is Anime during a time when anime was rare-ish. You either paid $20 for a vhs with two episodes on it, or paid $50 for games like Xenogears. The game isn't that good, but if you think that Neon Genesis Evangelion has amazing storytelling than you might enjoy the story of xenogears.

Dark Cloud had an anime looking art style that made it stand out at the time. Thats pretty much it. Most mobile games have better gameplay than DC because it can be thought of as Mondter Hunter Lite. You go out to a very minimal dungeon, kill enemies for items and hopefully you encountered the rare enemy that actually dropped the item you need to progress. Its one of the more tedious games I have ever played.

Lunar was an alright series. I found the story to be way to melodramatic and the gameplay was average at best to annoying. The game is filled with stupid decisions that punish the player whenever possible, for example, your characters lose XP whenever you save.

Ultima Underworld was arguably the first FPS. It doesn't play that great, but if you had a PCnin the early 90's it was a novel experience. The only reason to play it is if you are into the history of games.

Valkyrie Profile is pretty decent. It fits into the Xenogears mold in that 90% of the "game" is just Anime story and if you didn't have access to anime back then it was novel. Also the game features a lady as the main protagonist, so if someone was a girl back in the day then they probably have extra attachment to the series. It holds up enough that its worth playing today.

Ogre Battle is worth skipping entirely. Unless you are a diehard FFTactics player the lack of control in combat will be annoying. The only reason why the 64 version of the game hasn't been completely forgotten is because the creatir of FFT made the earlier games in the series and the 64 version was super-rare so collectors have a reason to collect it.

Trails in the Sky is Tails of Vesperia with a lot more emphasis on story. Like, every time you get to a new city you have to jam the A-button for fifteen minutes levels of story and it isn't even that special of a story. If you play RPG's for generic adventure stories filled with romance than you might like this, otherwise its a fairly well-made JRPG done in a style you dont see too often anymore.

@majormitch

Xenogears From my memory has a very dense story and unique combat mechanics for the time when my brother and I discovered it. It was our first dive into other jRPG's after really enjoying FF7. I fully endorse @slag describing it as the MGS of jRPGs. There are sequences of dialogue that last easily 1/2 an hour. And definitely keep a few save slots going, my brother and I had to start over a couple times due to getting into unwinnable situations. I think at the time we were too young to follow the story all that well so that element was boring to us. We enjoyed the combat and the mechs towards the end.

Dark Cloud 2 I never finished, but was most the way through it when I finally burned out. Its lighthearted combat and collection mechanics combined with the town building elements and a Zelda-like story about the ultimate evil destroying the world make for a delightful package. I remember it as a very long game that catered to my enjoyment of grinding. I had a love/hate thing going with the golf mini-game that you use to close all the dungeons.

Orge Battle 64 Was that game we got used for cheap and would come back periodically as we aged to see if we "got it" yet. Eventually, it clicked and I put some time into it, never finished it though. I remember it as a frustratingly slow strategy game with restrictive combat mechanics. I couldn't tell you the plot, probably something about rebellion against an evil empire...I dunno man, play Final Fantasy: Tactics instead. That game has its own problems (wonky ports, convoluted plot and random difficulty spikes) but shooting from the hip here, I remember the mechanics as doing something similar but better.

Valkyrie Profile I watched my brother play hours of this one. I've always wanted to track down a copy and give it a shot. Basically, you are a valkyrie and are recruiting warriors for an ongoing war in the afterlife. The combat seemed simply, but it was the story and exploration that I remember more than anything. You searched around the worlds (2D side scrolling, room based dungeons) to find warriors as they were in some critical moment in their lives. They would die and you would revive them to battle alongside you. You would use them in your standard combat, they would level-up and at set intervals you would be required to send warriors up to the war. There was an interesting push-pull of needing strong warriors for your own fights but also needing to keep your army in the afterlife at high strength as well. Lots of short vignettes that were interesting and only had enough time to say what they had to say and then it was back to the fight. There might have been an element of restarting while keeping some amount of progress A-la Dead Rising, but that's where my memory gets hazy. Also, part of my hazy memory: Don't bother with the sequel. What I remember is that they stripped out whatever restarting element there was and changed how the recruiting interacted with combat and the ongoing threat.

Sorry, for the giant blurb of what is probably already explained on the wiki...

TL:DR: Try Dark Cloud 2 and Valkyrie Profile EDIT for consistency: Try Final Fantasy: Tactics

@efesell: Thanks! Trails in the Sky comes in 3 parts, correct? Would I need to play all 3 to get the full picture, or are they fairly standalone?

@slag: I never had a Dreamcast, and the Cube port of Skies of Arcadia eluded me in the day, and seems pretty rare/expensive now. So there would be some extra hurdles to this one. Sounds like you enjoyed the tone/setting of the game- did the combat and/or story stand out to you?

The only "Xeno" game I tried was the first Xenoblade Chronicles, and could not get into the combat (which was the majority of that game). Any idea if Xenogears' combat is similar? Sounds like the story is really the draw for that one though.

What do you like about Valkyrie Profile? And thanks for your other feedback, and pointing to other experts! :)

@zombiepie: Oh lord have I, for better or worse ;) Just finished 15, which keeps my streak alive of playing all the "main" numbered single player entries in tact. In fact, playing so many games like that is why I feel the need to gather more information on other RPGs, particularly of the "J" variety. There's a lot of them that are well loved, and that accounts for a lot of hours... hard to parse.

@thatpinguino: Thanks! That's one thing I'm trying to suss out here, it sounds like the gameplay of Lost Odyssey is traditional, which is something I've experienced a lot over the years. Grinding through long, standard-ish JRPG combat loses its shine after a while ;) It sounds like the story hooks are the big draw on this one. I'm sure it's long, but would you say it's longer than average? And does it get very repetitive and/or grindy with the combat?

@sparky_buzzsaw: I did enjoy Symphonia quite a bit when I played it (around release). But it's also very long (as most of these are), and I don't know how worth it would be to keep playing the series if it's mostly more of the same, as I always assumed it is. This is one of those things that I'd definitely do with ample time... which I never have close to enough of course ;) It sounds like Vesperia is very similar mechanically, with the characters as a highlight, and above Symphonia in your view.

How similar is Ogre Battle 64 to the Tactics Ogre games? I've always assumed they're mostly the same mechanically, but don't really know. As for Disgaea, that's another series I've had my eye on. Any thoughts on where to jump in if I only try one of those? I feel like they made a bigger splash with the earlier ones, but the newer ones perhaps make smart modern adjustments?

Thanks for the rest of your feedback Sparky, very helpful!

@dr_monocle: Thanks! Do you think Lunar would hold up pretty well today? Might be tough to call, but your best estimate is appreciated :)

@lawgamer: Can you put a finger on what Vesperia did for you that Zesteria and Berseria didn't? Just curious!

@monetarydread: You may totally be right that I won't enjoy any of these today. But I've liked the genre enough over the years to feel the need to at least perform my due diligence ;) I appreciate the feedback though! (made me chuckle too) I get the impression you think a lot of these were novel at the time for fairly specific reasons, and may not hold up too much today, with a few exceptions. All good to know.

@mrslaphappy: Thanks for the feedback! I'm not a MGS guy, so the comparison falls a little for me (though I get it ;) ). But Xenogears is getting enough praise that I might just have to find out for myself someday. It sounds like Dark Cloud 2 may be very long and grindy? That's perhaps my biggest worry with most of these games (if not the genre at large). I've played FFT and some of the Tactics Ogre games, so it sounds like the consensus is that Ogre Battle 64 may not be worth it unless I just really, really want more of that style. And I don't if it doesn't do much different- despite liking those games, I have limits. But these are the reasons I want that feedback, much appreciated!

@majormitch: Trails 1 and 2 are just one big game split in half, you'd definitely need both to get the full experience.

Play none of them. There's no such thing as a good jrpg. There, saved you all the time.

It's probably worth mentioning that Ogre Battle is very much its own thing. I honestly didn't play very much, but I seem to remember it being a weird slow-paced RTS/RPG hybrid where you ordered squads of soldiers (who could level up and stuff) across a map. It's not a turn based thing on a grid like Tactics Ogre, though given how influential Tactics Ogre has been and how forgotten Ogre Battle is outside of some tiny internet circles, maybe that's not a good thing. You should at least take a look at it, because of how weird it is, but if you're like me you'll probably turn it off after struggling with the interface for an hour.

As someone who used to play a lot of old RPGs, I never quite managed to crack the Ultima series. If you're going to give any of them an honest look, it should be Ultima VII. The games before it are ancient and inscrutable (and the games after it are supposedly pretty bad and boring) but even that thing with the quality-of-life improving Exult mod was a little too much to catch my interest. If we're talking spinoffs, I think Ultima Underworld and its sequel are super interesting from a historical standpoint (you can see the building blocks for stuff like Thief, Deus Ex, or The Elder Scrolls games in UU) but that doesn't really mean that they're fun to play in a modern context.

@monetarydread: I think you might be confusing Lunar with something else. I have played both games a number of times and I don't remember there being any kind of exp loss when saving. Also while there is a degree of melodrama in them, as to be expected of 90's era JRPGs, those games are actually very lighthearted and silly overall, especially for the time. I'd compare them to something like Persona 4 for how it's balanced in that regard.

@majormitch: Yeah, thats basically a summary of my opinions. The list is b-teir games that had one or two things that were novel that people latched onto. I also have this weird thing where Nostalgia doesn't have a part in my life, so whenever I go back to games they get viewed, not as something great from my past, but they get compared to everything that has come out since... and unfortunately, a LOT of these games came from a time where there was a lot of experimentation going on while not a lot of refinement for broken bullshit. For example, Xenogears has a bad habit of showing a 30minute cutscene before a boss battle. If you lose the boss battle, you have to watch the 30 minute cutscene over again. Its that kind of bullshit that I think is inexcusible now and I hold that shit against a game, no matter when it came out or whatever else it is trying to do.Not that the list is inherently terrible, but I would put them in a list of games to try when everything else has been covered.

My favourite game on the list you provided was Valkyrie Profile (the PSP remake is sadly inferior to the PS1 version), and Tales of Vesperia (the story focuses on Adults, not children so I was able to connect with the story more than most) and Lunar (it feels like a SNES rpg and I always enjoyed that style). Skies of Arcadia might be more enjoyable to someone who is totally into the concept of Pirates.

If you want to check out a list of games in that tier of RPG's that I prefererred:

• Breath of Fire 4 - This game might be the secret best PS1 RPG. It has a great story, isn't too grindy, and there are lots of little things that are different than other RPGs
• Legend of Mana - This is my favourite Mana title. The biggest problem with the game is that you kinda need to read a FAQ at the start because you can miss some sections of the game entirely, but it has one of the more novel experiences on the system. There is just so much to discover in this game. The main complaints against this one was the fact that it wasn't Secret of Mana and people wanted a Secret of Mana sequel.
• Wild Arms series - I really enjoy the western feel to this series and it is unique. 1 was grindy, 2 was a little generic, and 3 was obscure at points, but the series had a character to them that a lot of games don't.
• Rogue Galaxy - Its basically a Dark Cloud, made from the same developers, only better in every way.
• Lufia II - Like the Wild Arms series, this is a puzzle-focused RPG with a great story. It might be the secret-best RPG on the SNES.
• Robotrek - THink of a SNES version of Pokemon only with Robots.
• Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean
• Princess Tomato in the Salad Kingdom - A NES rpg that isn't great, but it is bat-shit-insane enough to stand out from the crowd.

The Legend of Heroes series is a long running game series from Falcom (the people who make Ys). Since it came out, there's been the base Legend of Heroes Series for PSP (which I haven't played), Trails in the Sky (a spinoff - like the Persona series from Shin Megami Tensei), and Trails of Cold Steel (yet another spinoff). Each of these series really don't intertwine very much.

Trails in the Sky and Trails of Cold Steel each have 2 games (think parts 1 & 2 like Golden Sun). These two series KIND of intersect with each other (as Trails in the Sky takes place in one nation and Trails of Cold Steel takes place in another).

But, it's suggested to play Trails in the Sky first as Trails of Cold Steel has some references that will stand out more - BUT this is not to say you can't play the other first. They also are different presentation wise as Trails in the Sky came out around 2004 & 2006 versus Cold Steel which came out more recently. Similar playstyles, but different looks/presentation/characters.

I just recently played Trails in the Sky and it is good.

@zeik: Maybe that is one of the differences between the Sega CD version (that I played) and the PS1 remake. I definetely remember losing XP whenever you saved in that game

It turns out I was thinking of Lunar: Eternal Blue, that had the spend XP to save system and overly melodramatic story.

@majormitch: I recommend Valkyrie Profile highest among that list. I've been replaying it recently, and I've found it even better than I had remembered.

It's an unconventional game in many ways while still being couched in some familiar JRPG tropes. The main character is a Valkyrie whose mission is to recruit the souls of strong-willed individuals who've died, train them up, then dispatch them to wage war in the armies of the Gods. You meet each party member as they live out their last moments before death, in a kind of sad vignette. The battle system is turn-based, but has a real-time component inspired very loosely by fighting games where you can carefully time the simultaneous attacks of your party members to combo on enemies, breaking their guards, air-juggling them, and building up and unleashing super meter attacks. Dungeons are 2D sidescrollers with a little platforming and puzzle solving. Enemies are visible on screen--no random battles. The game has 3 difficulty settings, which affects lots of stuff including which dungeons, party members, and items appear in the game; and it has 3 endings, plus a post-game, optional super dungeon.

One of my favorite things about the game is how it interleaves moments of melancholic tragedy (the characters' stories and deaths) with moments of up-tempo asskicking as Valkyrie takes no shit from anyone, barges in on bosses, and wrecks face. The excellent music really sets the emotional atmosphere.

Another distinctive thing I like about the game is its mechanical complexity. It's got lots of systems, none of which is all that complicated on its own, there are just a lot of them. I find it really satisfying to suss out how gameplay systems work and slowly master them. You don't remotely have to master everything to beat the game, but there's lots of satisfaction to be had there. The more you learn the game, the more broken you'll discover it is, and the more you'll be able to mess around and exploit things. The game is quite flexible and replayable.

One last, crucial thing: Valkyrie Profile is relatively short, by RPG standards, clocking in between 30 and 40 hours. It's pretty light on time-wasting overhead, instead focusing the player's time directly on character stories, plot, and gameplay.

@majormitch: Ogre Battle's kind of its own weird thing. I'd really recommend watching a video on it first before jumping in, because some people seem to love it, some hate it.

As for Disgaea, the later games, particularly D2 and 5, are the most accessible. I'd start with 5. Story-wise, it's probably the most boring of the bunch, but it's a great introduction to the series as it's more forgiving, streamlines a lot of the more confusing bullshit, and has one of the best side-games in the bunch. Don't be intimidated by the numbers, because there are a bunch of them. Just take your time, play through the main story, and then dip your toes into a FAQ for more on what to do after you'e finished the game.

Playing through Trails in the Sky First Chapter, currently. I'm not much of a JRPG fan honestly but I'm really enjoying it. It's an oldish PC game from 2004 that was later ported to PSP. There's 3 parts, only 2 have English versions, but the third part is slated to be a 2017 release. It's nothing particularly crazy as far as RPGs go; combat wise you equip materia like stuff, have limit break style moves, but the battle site is like a grid you can move your bros around. It's got good (if cliché) characters and an interesting world, and generally is quite pleasant. Long as fuck though, 41 hours in so far and I am 2 thirds through chapter 3 (of 4 plus a prologue). Apparently the 2nd game is a direct follow on from the end of 1 so it's even longer in that regard.

Lunar- Very old-school jrpg with more anime flair than usual, especially for it's time. Pretty conventional as far as storytelling tropes but it has a lot more charm and personality than most in the genre, and it still holds up.

Grandia- Really fun battle system, but the story is pretty average and the translation/voice acting of the original hasn't aged well.

Trails- If you like detailed settings this is the series for you, because the Trails games have easily the most impressive amount of the worldbuilding in the jrpg genre. They're very narrative driven games with lots of likable characters, some really interesting antagonists, and have plots that move in some unexpected directions. They do a really good job of juggling a lot of plot threads while still delivery character development. has an interesting world that feels more grounded than your Final Fantasy's or Tales. They are quite verbose and move at a slow pace most of the time (Trails in the Sky FC 40+ hours long and is essentially the first act of it's story) but if you're willing to make the investment the payoff is great. The Cold Steel games are nice in terms of combat and quality of life stuff, but I'd recommend the Sky games first since they are the table setters of the series and ultimately have strong worldbuilding.

Ogre Battle- As others have said these are actually console RTSs. Pretty cool games (really like the Ogre universe) but I never finished either of them.

Valkyrie Profile- Really cool game with a lot of unconventional mechanics. The battle system is a lot of fun, though it can get repetitive because of how it rewards overkilling enemies, and a lot of menus to sift through. Get a handle on how it all works is the main appeal of the game, although the game's take on Norse mythology and the somber atmosphere it conveys sets it well apart from the crowd.

In short Trails and VP are the ones that get my recommendations.

I actually went back and played Lunar fairly recently (damn near beat it again), and I was surprised how well it still holds up.

The story is quite straightforward, and progression is overly familiar (i.e., go through a dungeon to get to a town, then go through another dungeon to get a unique item and so on). However, even though you'll be doin' some significant fighting, there's a decent amount of depth when it comes to the battle system. It is turn-based, but your characters and enemies have to position themselves on the battlefield in order to perform certain attacks. The fights are still fast and fairly fun, though. Not to mention that they aren't random encounters; you can see the monsters on screen, and more often than not, you can avoid them if you don't feel like farting around. (It also helps that you can save at any point and time without any penalty, even in dungeons.)

BUT, what really sets the game apart is the writing and characters. The translation done by Working Designs is simply fantastic. They inject such great personality into not only the main characters, but also just random NPCs. Aesthetically speaking. it feels like you're playing a really sharp-looking SNES game with detailed sprites and environments. There are also little anime scenes peppered throughout that are a nice touch, even if they're rather simplistic.

I don't know... game's just got a lot of charm, man. It's one of my favorite, as in I have posters and a mouse pad kinda favorite, ya know? Anyway, it would probably take you around thirty hours to beat, so it's not a huge time investment.

I like Dark Cloud. I can't say how 2 holds up recently, but I think it should still be fine. The building town conceit is very fun and original.

Grandia I also haven't played in a while, but it has very cool combat and a goofy anime ass story. The story is goofy anime young kids fighting an evil empire and ancient evil business. I imagine it feels old.

It depends on what you think "hold up" means. Personally I'm not a big fan of the term. The games just feel like they were made in a different time and you can deal with it or you can't.

@majormitch: So I think a couple of things.

First, I liked the combat in Vesperia significantly more than the combat in Zestiria/Berseria. Vesperia is more about juggling enemies and the pace was such that it you needed to be on your toes but could still parse what was going on. Z/B on other hand frequently just degenerates into an incomprehensible melee with characters all stacked on top of each other and button mashing is just as effective as actual strategy/learning moves. On the occasions you did need to think about inputs, I personally found the timing much too demanding and unpredictable to be fun.

Second, the story and characters in Vesperia are so, so much better than the other two games. They're all anime as hell, but Vesperia is kinda good anime where the characters all have individual goals and the story allows them time to develop. On the other hand, Zestiria in particular was just "blah blah Malevolence blah blah Shepard blah blah." It's pretty much the worst Chosen One style story imaginable compounded by characters that are completely one dimensional and act the way they do Because The Plot Requires It. There was literally a point in the story where one character contradicts herself within about 30 seconds because the plot suddenly needs to go in a particular direction.

Xenogears is one of my favorite games of all time, havent played the others exept a bit of lost odessy before getting bored. Xenogears has a good art style and because of the mix of early 3d with 2d sprites the graphics hold up better than most ps1 games. The combo system was fun you can set up your own sets into supermoves if i remember right, just a fun game with a crazy story and good characters.

@monetarydread: That still doesn't sound right. Though I've only played the Playstation versions of either game.

@lawgamer: Zestiria definitely felt weak for the series to me. Actually getting pretty into Berseria though, it has a much better cast and with its combat system its way more punishing to just spam without paying attention since enemies can easily knock your ability to attack right out of you.

@efesell: Sorry to hijack the thread, MajorMitch, but we're still sorta talking Tales, so... eh.

Did they drop the dumb crafting crap from Zestiria? That turned me off the game in a huge way.

@sparky_buzzsaw: No, sorry, it's still there and still the thing I hate most about it. Finding new equipment still feels totally meaningless.

@efesell: Thanks. You just saved me some wasted money.

@majormitch: Yeah, I'd say Lunar would hold up pretty well. There were parts of the writing that were funny to me back then and they might not have aged as well, but I can't be too sure. Otherwise you'll be fine. It doesn't go to crazy philosophy land like Xenogears, it's just a solid story. I mean just check out this opening! You can't go wrong:

Neither did I, I played SoA on GC. It looked ok then graphics wise, I bet it looked absolutely amazing in 99. Personally I felt at the the time a large part of the appeal was that it was a tech showpiece (look at all these sky islands you can go to in 3d!). No and No to combat and story. They were fine, just not particularly memorable. Lovable characters (Vyse and Aika have become b-tier Sega mascots) but pretty light hearted Anime fare. Super tropey stuff, felt like it aimed at a younger demo than Square stuff. I felt a little old to be playing it when I did. A lot of the most passionate fans of the game I've noticed played it a much younger age than I did.

The most interesting part of the combat was the tactical ship to ship combat, had a very naval warfare feel to it (having to turn your skyship sideways to given a broadside of cannonballs etc). Really anything involving the skyships was what made the game interesting.

As much as I liked the game I think you would be completely fine bypassing it.

I remember liking Xenogears combat much better than XenoSaga's. I think it was a little like a fighting game in the sense you have to execute moves and had weak, medium and heavy attacks which I think you can eventually chain into "deathblows". Been a long time so kinda fuzzy. Anyway, it asked a lot more of you than most Ps1 JRPG combat systems did and I liked that. Haven't played XC so can't compare it. I didn't find it terribly difficult, but I'm also the completionist type when it comes to these games so I'm sure I got overlevelled. Either way I enjoyed the combat on its own.

Valkyrie Profile I actually haven't played. But it's so evangelized by friends I Trust and its' core mechanics certainly were influential and unique, maybe the most influential game out of what you listed (e.g. Lab Zero , make of Skull Girls, is making a spiritual successor to its combat system in Indivisible. A lot of people have tired to recapture the VP magic, none have succeeded as of yet). I managed to track down a PSP remaster copy for a reasonable price (the Ps1 ones are way out of my budget), I just don't have a PSP to play it yet. :(

If I were going to prioritize what's worthwhile and what isn't based on my own impressions and what other have said here, it'd be roughly something like this

Tier 1 - Classics

• Valkyrie Profile
• Xenogears

Tier 2 - Solid games

• Tales of Vesperia
• Lunar: Silver Star
• One of the Legend of Heroes game to see if you like them

Tier 3- Flawed Curiosities,

• Skies of Arcadia
• Lost Odyssey
• Ultima (mainly just due to the age of these games)

Tier 4 - Safe to Pass on or didn't age well

• Grandia
• Dark Cloud 2
• Ogre Battle 64

happy to help man, hope you have fun!

Valkyria Profile is fun, but the fact that navigating the myriad of endings it has more or less requires a step-by-step guide and several playthroughs makes it very annoying to play.

I'll echo what other people are saying and recommend that you play Vesperia. I'll also cautiously recommend Lost Odyssey although it may feel pretty dated.

If you enjoy Vesperia, I recommend going to Tales of Berseria afterwards. The combat is a little less intuitive and some of the graphics don't look good since they switched to a 3D engine (they did this before Berseria but I don't know which game) but it's still a great game. The combat is very rewarding and the story and characters rival that of Vesperia.

Skip Zestiria, the characters are insufferable and the story is bland. I couldn't finish it.

I third the cautious recommendation of Lost Odyssey. It has been since it was released that I played it, but I thoroughly enjoyed it at the time. It had deep moving stories, especially the additional text stories that were added. Something like a Codex entry that wouldn't be required but added to the story except they weren't just information, they were actually well thought, sometimes dark additions to the journey of your character.

That being said, this was all 10 or so years ago. I don't know how it would hold up in today's age.

Shadow Hearts Covenant is the best RPG on PS2. Best battle system, which for some reason haven't seen any any other game.

Xenogears is the best off that list, but skip all of them and just play Jade Empire

I can highly recommend the Trails in the sky games. A perfect example of games not doing that much different, but just doing it so well. They are pretty slow games though, so I recommend not running through them, but to take it easy, talk to people and enjoy the world.

Thanks everyone for all the responses! This is what I was hoping for, just a good survey of how people felt about these games. It's a lot for one person to parse, so all the feedback on all these games is very welcome :D

@savage: Thanks for the extra detailed explanation on Valkyrie Profile! I know that game is well loved, but what I really needed was to know why it stands out. You give some good details that give me a much better idea of what I'm looking at here :)

@madman356647: @thewildcard: @alexw00d: Thanks for the extra explanations, especially about the Trails games. I've heard a lot of good things about them, but didn't really know what they were or how they pieced together. So that's helpful!

@efesell: @sparky_buzzsaw: @lawgamer: Ha, no worries on hijacking the thread Sparky, it's helpful for me to hear various points from various people. All the Vesperia talk has been very helpful!

@slag: Thanks for the additional follow up, and even taking a stab at prioritizing. RPGs are so tricky because of how long they are, not to mention how many of them there are, most with staunch defenders. This exercise has proven useful, and I've gotten great feedback! Might do it again with other genres ;)

@poveren: Shadow Hearts Covenant is another interesting one to consider that I haven't played... why are there so many JRPGs? And so little time.

@cornfed40: I have played Jade Empire... you probably don't want to hear what I think of Jade Empire ;)

@majormitch: Hahaha! Are you not a big BioWare guy in general, or was it just something about it that rubbed you the wrong way?

@majormitch: hey no problem, happy to help. And I hope you have fun with whatever you decide to do. Be curious to see what you tackle if you tackle any.

fwiw since it's been mentioned, Shadow Hearts: Covenant is also one of my personal favorites Ps2 era JRPGs right up there with the Personas and FFX. No idea how well it holds up, but the story/premise resonated with me a lot more than the FF games did of that era (though I loved them too). And that Judgement Ring battle system was simple but really engaging which was a plus in an era where combat was hard to avoid when you weren't in the mood. If I have any major criticism of the game is that its enemy design felt repetitive. You don't need to play the previous games to appreciate it, but since it is a direct sequel there is definitely some benefit to doing so. They do a pretty good job of filling you in though on what is essential though.

@cornfed40: Ha, I've really, really loved a handful of Bioware games (such as KOTOR and the Mass Effects in particular), but there are others I like less (Dragon Age II for example). In Jade Empire's case it's definitely more that it had aspects that rubbed me the wrong way. I'd say the main thing was the balance of the different styles felt completely off. For example, I heavily specialized in magic and martial styles, then late in the game encountered enemies that were immune to both, forcing me to adopt new styles. But I switched to a completely unleveled weapon style and beat those enemies easily. (My brother played the entire game with weapon styles and said it was a cakewalk.) So stuff like that bothered me a lot, giving the impression of character building, but not really being balanced properly to support that idea- it felt really sloppy to me. The combat or story didn't grab me a ton either, but those were more minor. Anyway, enough Jade Empire soapboxing for now. I tried to warn you ;)