New upcoming story -Eight Women, Eight Responses, One Dead Island

Prepare for the shitstorm, gentlemen.

I feel that these articles are spread out evenly to give people something to do on the weekend. Or whatever.

This thread suddenly seems highly useless.

Oh, well...

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

looking forward to all of the patrick-hater haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick-haters like idiots

I just tell myself never to read the comments section of any of these articles.

And then I do anyway, out of morbid curiosity.

"Am i the only one who already owned a Woman Torsos statue".

I get it guys. Deep Silver did something dumb with PR. so dumb that the internet is aflame about it and talking about Dead Island. A mediocre game that came out almost a year ago. Those guys.

There is no doubt going to be worthwhile arguments by people of different perspectives in the comments that will be drowned out by idiots screaming at each other. Is it too much to ask to try and point people towards those instead of quoting some idiot from either side?

Based on the way people acted when that DmC review dropped I'm really not going to hold my breath.

@cabrit_sans_cor: Those comments....

Anyways, I am looking forward to the articles. I will be tempted to go over the comment section and regret it soon after.

I'm sure you're looking forward to feeling like you're being oppressed again because that is something you always have to deal with as a person unfortunate to be born a man, dr_mantas.

I was going to say something slightly snarky, but I'm just going to avoid this whole thing. It's depressing on both sides. On one hand, Patrick's putting his opinion out there as fact, which is annoying. "Booth babes are nothing but exploited women who can't take care of themselves." "Cyberpunk 2077 is disgusting." This shitty Dead Island thing has already been blown out of proportion. Honestly, I saw this thread title and thought it was parody. On the other hand, some of the community's reaction is just awful. Nope, not touching this with a ten foot poll.

Is he basing the article on 999 then? Can't believe he's gonna write about that again

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

Looking forward to all the people who think that if someone disagrees with a female or has anything negative to say whatsoever, they must be a "woman hater", because they are oh such precious and delicate fragile creatures and if they so much as breath loudly in response to one's comments, they're are going to obliterate her feelings like a nuclear warhead and are probably a serial rapist hiding in their mom's basement that has never touched a boob!

Also, I'll get it out of the way: Just because Patrick and other "journalists" lost their shit over the stupid statue (and it was incredibly stupid and repulsive) doesn't mean that the whole "this was designed by insensitive men who want to motivate other human beings to rape women and treat them like crap!". The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous. And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone. As I stated in another comment recently, human beings are complex creatures -- capable of treating a woman they're going on a date with respectfully and with great and sincere interest. Capable of treating their mother, sister, and most women they meat with kindness and decency. And also capable of disagreeing with or arguing with women about things. And, believe it or not, all of those things are still possible while occasionally objectifying them. You know, like how I might fantasize about how I'd bang the hell out of Scarlet Johanson because she's got a fucking awesome body. That doesn't make one a woman hater or a rapist or a neanderthal anymore than being a narrow-minded, single-dimensional, intentionally obtuse journalist or commentator that sees ABSOLUTELY EVERY DEPICTION OF WOMEN THAT ISN'T SAINTLY as an affront to all humankind and representative of only the most depraved male minds does. (And no, this isn't to say there aren't serious issues of gender and discrimination to talk about, but then let's talk about that instead of this trivial shit).

So, in short, I have to say that this topic is rather insincere and continuing to beat the dead horse (or zombie-bait corpse) further is just pathetic. It is truly making a mountain out of a mole-hill and it's the kind of thing I'd expect from other link-bait sites. It also continues to prove my point that "serious game journalists" are one-trick ponies who know ONLY one story to trot out when they want to be "totes serious" and have something for the resume to show off as "real journalism". And that's "oh, men are such vile pigs and sexism sexism sexism incorrect usage of misogyny but going to use it anyway, because it sounds really smart and makes my article seem totally high-brow and sympathetic".

I don't see how the rest of the world isn't suffocating from the massive puddles of insincerity oozing out of all of this, each time (and "each time" is becoming more frequent, because you can't go 48 fucking hours without more of it in the past year). These "game journalists" use this topic and exploit it and blow it out of all possible sensible proportion in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY we all bitch about the rest of the media and politicians doing about games, in general. It's the same fucking playbook. It's the same fucking insincerity and manipulation. Instead of calling people out on it, we sit around with our dicks in our hands, grunting about how everyone else is a troglodyte for every even thinking of a woman sexually and a handful of angry children spit out some hideous stuff about women, because that's what gets attention when you're ten years old. We should all be a shamed for participating in this bullshit every time patrick or some other "game journalists" trots out the same tired and trite "it's time for some GAMES JOURNALISM DAWG!" bullshit.

And since someone is going to call me on this, let me just ask -- where are the meaningful gaming journalism articles here about racism, homophobia, xenophobia, and even ageism? Where? Show me? And for that one that you can pull up as evidence, how many were there about sexism? And of those about "sexism" how many of those were actually discriminatory? How many of them were anything more than the general day to day use of female characters or advertising that we are bombarded with in absolutely every other aspect of modern society every single day of the year? (Meaning that it is not inherently different or worse or more sickening or wrong than everything else you consume or participate in every single day, so stop acting like we have some sort of an unusual epidemic of neanderthals beating women over the head and dragging them into the cave, in gaming).

The Dead Island torso was in bad taste. Definitely. The problem for me, in many cases with Patrick, is how he inserts his own opinions as fact in his articles. The thing about #1reasonwhy and all the other articles that have bothered me is his refusal to take himself out of the story and present the facts as they are. He has some inherent need to colour the story to better fit his world view, and it's just gross.

So yeah, I'm looking forward to the comments section of this new article. It should be a good way to kill a weekend afternoon.

Also,

@Branthog said:

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

Looking forward to all the people who think that if someone disagrees with a female or has anything negative to say whatsoever, they must be a "woman hater", because they are oh such precious and delicate fragile creatures and if they so much as breath loudly in response to one's comments, they're are going to obliterate her feelings like a nuclear warhead and are probably a serial rapist hiding in their mom's basement that has never touched a boob!

Also, I'll get it out of the way: Just because Patrick and other "journalists" lost their shit over the stupid statue (and it was incredibly stupid and repulsive) doesn't mean that the whole "this was designed by insensitive men who want to motivate other human beings to rape women and treat them like crap!". The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous. And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone. As I stated in another comment recently, human beings are complex creatures -- capable of treating a woman they're going on a date with respectfully and with great and sincere interest. Capable of treating their mother, sister, and most women they meat with kindness and decency. And also capable of disagreeing with or arguing with women about things. And, believe it or not, all of those things are still possible while occasionally objectifying them. You know, like how I might fantasize about how I'd bang the hell out of Scarlet Johanson because she's got a fucking awesome body. That doesn't make one a woman hater or a rapist or a neanderthal anymore than being a narrow-minded, single-dimensional, intentionally obtuse journalist or commentator that sees ABSOLUTELY EVERY DEPICTION OF WOMEN THAT ISN'T SAINTLY as an affront to all humankind and representative of only the most depraved male minds does. (And no, this isn't to say there aren't serious issues of gender and discrimination to talk about, but then let's talk about that instead of this trivial shit).

So, in short, I have to say that this topic is rather insincere and continuing to beat the dead horse (or zombie-bait corpse) further is just pathetic. It is truly making a mountain out of a mole-hill and it's the kind of thing I'd expect from other link-bait sites. It also continues to prove my point that "serious game journalists" are one-trick ponies who know ONLY one story to trot out when they want to be "totes serious" and have something for the resume to show off as "real journalism". And that's "oh, men are such vile pigs and sexism sexism sexism incorrect usage of misogyny but going to use it anyway, because it sounds really smart and makes my article seem totally high-brow and sympathetic".

I don't see how the rest of the world isn't suffocating from the massive puddles of insincerity oozing out of all of this, each time (and "each time" is becoming more frequent, because you can't go 48 fucking hours without more of it in the past year).

What this guy said.

I'm just tired of this even being considered an issue. I just don't see it. As long as we treat each other as equals in real life, what does anything else matter? Who is the victim here? I'm all for fighting for equal rights, equal pay for equal work, more women in positions of power and so on, but come on. This is a damn plastic bust which came with a video game. Tasteless, sure. Just don't drag sexism into it.

I was going to say something slightly snarky, but I'm just going to avoid this whole thing. It's depressing on both sides. On one hand, Patrick's putting his opinion out there as fact, which is annoying. "Booth babes are nothing but exploited women who can't take care of themselves." "Cyberpunk 2077 is disgusting." This shitty Dead Island thing has already been blown out of proportion. Honestly, I saw this thread title and thought it was parody. On the other hand, some of the community's reaction is just awful. Nope, not touching this with a ten foot poll.

@Branthog said:

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

Looking forward to all the people who think that if someone disagrees with a female or has anything negative to say whatsoever, they must be a "woman hater", because they are oh such precious and delicate fragile creatures and if they so much as breath loudly in response to one's comments, they're are going to obliterate her feelings like a nuclear warhead and are probably a serial rapist hiding in their mom's basement that has never touched a boob!

Also, I'll get it out of the way: Just because Patrick and other "journalists" lost their shit over the stupid statue (and it was incredibly stupid and repulsive) doesn't mean that the whole "this was designed by insensitive men who want to motivate other human beings to rape women and treat them like crap!". The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous. And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone. As I stated in another comment recently, human beings are complex creatures -- capable of treating a woman they're going on a date with respectfully and with great and sincere interest. Capable of treating their mother, sister, and most women they meat with kindness and decency. And also capable of disagreeing with or arguing with women about things. And, believe it or not, all of those things are still possible while occasionally objectifying them. You know, like how I might fantasize about how I'd bang the hell out of Scarlet Johanson because she's got a fucking awesome body. That doesn't make one a woman hater or a rapist or a neanderthal anymore than being a narrow-minded, single-dimensional, intentionally obtuse journalist or commentator that sees ABSOLUTELY EVERY DEPICTION OF WOMEN THAT ISN'T SAINTLY as an affront to all humankind and representative of only the most depraved male minds does. (And no, this isn't to say there aren't serious issues of gender and discrimination to talk about, but then let's talk about that instead of this trivial shit).

So, in short, I have to say that this topic is rather insincere and continuing to beat the dead horse (or zombie-bait corpse) further is just pathetic. It is truly making a mountain out of a mole-hill and it's the kind of thing I'd expect from other link-bait sites. It also continues to prove my point that "serious game journalists" are one-trick ponies who know ONLY one story to trot out when they want to be "totes serious" and have something for the resume to show off as "real journalism". And that's "oh, men are such vile pigs and sexism sexism sexism incorrect usage of misogyny but going to use it anyway, because it sounds really smart and makes my article seem totally high-brow and sympathetic".

I don't see how the rest of the world isn't suffocating from the massive puddles of insincerity oozing out of all of this, each time (and "each time" is becoming more frequent, because you can't go 48 fucking hours without more of it in the past year). These "game journalists" use this topic and exploit it and blow it out of all possible sensible proportion in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY we all bitch about the rest of the media and politicians doing about games, in general. It's the same fucking playbook. It's the same fucking insincerity and manipulation. Instead of calling people out on it, we sit around with our dicks in our hands, grunting about how everyone else is a troglodyte for every even thinking of a woman sexually and a handful of angry children spit out some hideous stuff about women, because that's what gets attention when you're ten years old. We should all be a shamed for participating in this bullshit every time patrick or some other "game journalists" trots out the same tired and trite "it's time for some GAMES JOURNALISM DAWG!" bullshit.

yep, this is pretty much what i was expecting. patrick does a great job at addressing the overt sexism you see in video games and the media day to day, media that has inevitably led to you acting the way you are right now.

And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone

what are you saying here? treating women like objects is something that should be encouraged? this pretty much says all anyone needs to know about how much your stance on sexism matters. your whole opinion seems pretty naive, i've been reading things like this for a long time. you clearly don't fully grasp rape culture and everything you're saying comes off as "why can't i be sexist anymore". thank god at least some press seems to be moving forward, and journalists like patrick are leading the way.

Well, Patrick sure as hell won't publish an article with 8 women telling him, "You're taking this a little bit too seriously aren't you?".

I hope the 15 min of fame for this thing runs up soon. Tired of this whole circle jerk of a discussion going on in circles ad nauseum. It's like one giant ouroboros in the form of a discussion.

I wonder how the comments will manage to say Patrick is a "white knight" or how he's exploiting the story or whatever idiotic complaints they had when there are actual women giving their opinion and not just Patrick. Should be fun. 

@Milkman said:

@TooWalrus said:

I was going to say something slightly snarky, but I'm just going to avoid this whole thing. It's depressing on both sides. On one hand, Patrick's putting his opinion out there as fact, which is annoying. "Booth babes are nothing but exploited women who can't take care of themselves." "Cyberpunk 2077 is disgusting." This shitty Dead Island thing has already been blown out of proportion. Honestly, I saw this thread title and thought it was parody. On the other hand, some of the community's reaction is just awful. Nope, not touching this with a ten foot poll.

How is he putting his opinion out as fact? It's an editorial, he gives his opinion on it like anyone else would. Giant Bomb was never about just reporting the news. It's a personality driven site so obviously the articles are going to be personality driven as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but it's just something Patrick does that bugs me, and it's not limited to his articles about sexism. In the bombcast last week they were discussing tower defense games. Jeff will state pretty sarcastically that he hates the genre, though he makes it pretty clear that that's just his opinion and it's cool that Vinny and Brad are having a good time with it. Patrick doesn't do that. He'll just flat-out state "it's a shitty genre" and be done with it. So when he writes stuff like (and I'm paraphrasing, of course) "Nintendo are exploiting women, booth babes are offensive and anyone who thinks they aren't are just rationalizing," I find it annoying- I wish he'd give share a little bit about both sides of the debate. I get that he's way into "starting a discussion", but by only providing one side of the story and ignoring the other, all it does is spawn a shit-storm.

@posh said:

And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone

what are you saying here? treating women like objects is something that should be encouraged? this pretty much says all anyone needs to know about how much your stance on sexism matters. your whole opinion seems pretty naive, i've been reading things like this for a long time. you clearly don't fully grasp rape culture and everything you're saying comes off as "why can't i be sexist anymore". thank god at least some press seems to be moving forward, and journalists like patrick are leading the way.

I think it's funny that you literally took his words out of context. Context is important, and in the very next sentences, he explains what he's talking about. (even if I don't particularly agree with everything he says.)

I won't even bother with this again. The torso fiasco made it pretty clear to me that some people on Giant Bomb (and I guess gaming in general) just don't want to see something that is plainly obvious to see. So, yeah. To each their own.

What I don't understand is why, if we know there's a "shitstorm incoming", we need to create a topic that will undoubtedly devolve into another shitstorm. Fighting fire with fire?

@posh said:

yep, this is pretty much what i was expecting. patrick does a great job at addressing the overt sexism you see in video games and the media day to day, media that has inevitably led to you acting the way you are right now.

what are you saying here? treating women like objects is something that should be encouraged? this pretty much says all anyone needs to know about how much your stance on sexism matters. your whole opinion seems pretty naive, i've been reading things like this for a long time. you clearly don't fully grasp rape culture and everything you're saying comes off as "why can't i be sexist anymore". thank god at least some press seems to be moving forward, and journalists like patrick are leading the way.

Tell me, do you view porn as sexist?

@TooWalrus: I posted it in context right above that. and it doesn't look any less worse in context either.

@dr_mantas said:

Prepare for the shitstorm, gentlemen.

I feel that these articles are spread out evenly to give people something to do on the weekend. Or whatever.

This thread suddenly seems highly useless.

Oh, well...

The reaction and the hits are exactly why these kind of articles are constantly being written. It's pathetic that it's the only sort of FOX-NEWS style drivel that is trotted out (almost daily, it seems) to stir people up over the most absurdly trivial and overblown shit. How sexy a character is drawn is not "sexist". It's not even interesting. A headless pair of corpse-titties as "zombie bait" is just juvenile humor that I'm offended at only because it means someone thought I was dumb enough to have that kind of marketing appeal to me. It's not some grand statement by men about the desire to oppress women. It's not interesting, beyond the one day that it was news and only eye-rolling news, at that. A dipshit teenager saying "sexist" shit on XBox Live isn't news nor is it interesting, either. There have been a few meaningful stories about gender in the gaming and tech industry over the past year. Not a lot, but some. But we have to have something every fucking day, so we're down to picking up these little scattered pieces of trash off the ground and you see "Serious Game Journalists" collecting them up and trying to papier mache them in a frenzy into some sort of a "hard hitting deep story". They scream out "no I got something here, just give me another minute!" as their arms flail about with bits in each hand, spittle spewing out of the corners of their mouths.

Don't people see that this is the same sort of sensationalized bullshit as when your local news station trots out an ignorant (or not ignorant, but insincere and disingenuous) "journalist" who is going to scare your mother into a frothing frenzy by telling her how the latest modern video games are going to turn precious babies into spree killers? Or, you know, when Ralph Nader comes out and calls them "electronic child molesters"? This is no different. In this specific situation and many like it, they are taking a trivial nothing story and trying to pump it into a real story. It's pathetic to watch wannabe Pulitzer Prize winners grasping at straws to turn everything into hard-hitting news. And many of the rest of us smell it for what it is.

And then there's the rest of the crowd that acts like, because you're not hanging on the journalist's every precious word and that you're not playing along with the bullshit for the 78th time that year, you are some sort of a vile womanizer. That you can't possibly love your girlfriend, mother, sister, be kind to women in general. Respect them as you would anyone else. Hate them as you would anyone else. Be indifferent to them as you would anyone else. No - you must be a cave-dweller just waiting for a stray women to club over the head that sees every woman as a piece of meat all the time. The same simple-minded, un-nuanced, black-or-white treatment that the game journalists trying to stir up shit where there's nothing of interest to be stirred treat it.

When I see this shit, I just get this huge feeling like I do when it's sweeps time on network television. Predictable. Dumb. Pathetic.

If game journalists want those of us who think critically about this to take them more seriously, then they need to switch their game up. Consider other worthwhile topics in gaming. Are you telling me that literally the ONLY serious journalism to be done in gaming is about how men are awful creatures that can't stop objectifying every woman all the time in every situation and how women are constantly being belittled and disenfranchised in gaming (but, again, certainly no more than in every other aspect of our society - so let's frame all of these discussions realistically).

I don't hate patrick. In fact, while I've critiqued, I've always stood up for him and generally liked him. He's going to have to try to venture into "serious game journalism that doesn't involve sexism" at some point, though, if he wants some people to keep reading. And that goes for other "journalists", too. I'm not even saying it isn't a worthwhile topic. But you have to have more in your bag of tricks. You have to have more to talk about if you want people to keep listening to you and keep coming back. Take lessons from people like Neil Degrasse Tyson and other educators, even. If you just keep beating on the same drum, it'll lose effectiveness. You will be tuned out. You have to pepper that shit in here and there. Making it a constant and fervent drumbeat week after week after week just exhausted people. Even if you were talking about more than "oh my god, plastic fake zombie titties are the most sexist thing ever and we should all be calling our senators!" with regard to sexism, you would lose people. You would lose even the most interested and supportive and constructive people in the conversation, because it becomes mother fucking exhausting.

Tally up how many of these conversations the "gaming community" has had since January of 2012. It has been ceaseless. Sometimes for serious issues (thinking back to the poor woman at Bioware that received death threats). More often for idiotic trivial crap like this. But it has never stopped. I don't think we've had one week without this conversation.

Gender in the gaming industry is a worthwhile topic of discussion and investigation. BUT FOR FUCK'S SAKE, IT ISN'T THE ONLY ONE YOU LAZY FUCKING GAMING JOURNALISTS.

@FierceDeity: what? "porn" is pretty broad. that's like asking if i think dance music is sexist

@Branthog said:

The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous.

You're arguing that they put a pair of giant boobs on that statue just because it was appropriate for the franchise? What? I don't even...

@pyrodactyl said:

@Branthog said:

The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous.

You're arguing that they put a pair of giant boobs on that statue just because it was appropriate for the franchise? What? I don't even...

The statue was of a female, human torso. It would seem pretty strange to me if it didn't have breasts. Also, "giant" is quite a stretch.

This is why we can't have nice things. Please, stop bringing this shit over to the forums and keep it in the comments. The forums are meant for girl advice threads, duh

Is this really a big deal? Really? What the fuck happend to talking about games?

One thing I will never understand is why people try to silence these discussions. "I care about sexism and want women to be treated equally but everyone should shut up about it." Sexism is a real problem in the games industry and one that isn't getting much better. I support any kind of discussion about it. Big or small. What is being hurt by having the conversation?

@Milkman: Oh totally, which is why I didn't really have an issue with that whole #1reasonwhy thing (aside from the fact where he implies that because I am a man, I don't understand that everyone should be treated with respect- but that was on his own personal twitter, so whatever). Maybe it'll be different this time.

Another day, another shitstorm. I'm not a woman, I don't know what all counts as offensive to women. I'll just have to take their word for it. What I do find odd is how in that Cart Life quicklook at the end of the day I guess you take a shower and it shows you all kinda of different statistics but for no reason that I could find they would have the woman showering just fully naked. I guess I wanna know why that's OK and a zombie statue of a female torso isn't.

@posh said:

@FierceDeity: what? "porn" is pretty broad. that's like asking if i think dance music is sexist

WELL DO YOU!???!?!?!?

EDIT: THE LIBERAL WAR ON MEN ALEXJONES.RU

@dr_mantas said:

Prepare for the shitstorm, gentlemen.

I feel that these articles are spread out evenly to give people something to do on the weekend. Or whatever.

This thread suddenly seems highly useless.

Oh, well...

Well this post has already created a shitstorm so congratulations i guess?

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

I need to promise myself that I won't get into another forum war here. Self control... self control...

So, I'm looking forward to this article but help me out here GB Community: Wasn't Patrick originally hired to be "the news" guy? Cause I don't think he is writing much "news". Maybe I'm mistaken, that's why I'm asking you.

And here is the boring bit where I have to explain that, NO I don't hate Patrick. I get that he is in a lot of videos and does a lot stuff he is forgiven for not doing...well "more" than anybody else at the GB offices. I'm just curious if his role shifted (like, instantly) or if i'm just misremembering stuff. Cause nowadays it seems like Alex is more of a news guy than anybody else.

Jesus Christ, Patrick. Please just stop.

Jesus Christ, Patrick. Please just stop.

if you're actively taking issue with editorials tackling sexism you're probably sexist. if you can't see that sexism is still a major problem then just look at this thread.

@Milkman said:

@Drebin_893 said:

Jesus Christ, Patrick. Please just stop.

Why?

Because I just don't even understand.

@Drebin_893 said:

Jesus Christ, Patrick. Please just stop.

That's an odd request. Is there a reason why he should stop?

@posh said:

@Branthog said:

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

Looking forward to all the people who think that if someone disagrees with a female or has anything negative to say whatsoever, they must be a "woman hater", because they are oh such precious and delicate fragile creatures and if they so much as breath loudly in response to one's comments, they're are going to obliterate her feelings like a nuclear warhead and are probably a serial rapist hiding in their mom's basement that has never touched a boob!

Also, I'll get it out of the way: Just because Patrick and other "journalists" lost their shit over the stupid statue (and it was incredibly stupid and repulsive) doesn't mean that the whole "this was designed by insensitive men who want to motivate other human beings to rape women and treat them like crap!". The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous. And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone. As I stated in another comment recently, human beings are complex creatures -- capable of treating a woman they're going on a date with respectfully and with great and sincere interest. Capable of treating their mother, sister, and most women they meat with kindness and decency. And also capable of disagreeing with or arguing with women about things. And, believe it or not, all of those things are still possible while occasionally objectifying them. You know, like how I might fantasize about how I'd bang the hell out of Scarlet Johanson because she's got a fucking awesome body. That doesn't make one a woman hater or a rapist or a neanderthal anymore than being a narrow-minded, single-dimensional, intentionally obtuse journalist or commentator that sees ABSOLUTELY EVERY DEPICTION OF WOMEN THAT ISN'T SAINTLY as an affront to all humankind and representative of only the most depraved male minds does. (And no, this isn't to say there aren't serious issues of gender and discrimination to talk about, but then let's talk about that instead of this trivial shit).

So, in short, I have to say that this topic is rather insincere and continuing to beat the dead horse (or zombie-bait corpse) further is just pathetic. It is truly making a mountain out of a mole-hill and it's the kind of thing I'd expect from other link-bait sites. It also continues to prove my point that "serious game journalists" are one-trick ponies who know ONLY one story to trot out when they want to be "totes serious" and have something for the resume to show off as "real journalism". And that's "oh, men are such vile pigs and sexism sexism sexism incorrect usage of misogyny but going to use it anyway, because it sounds really smart and makes my article seem totally high-brow and sympathetic".

I don't see how the rest of the world isn't suffocating from the massive puddles of insincerity oozing out of all of this, each time (and "each time" is becoming more frequent, because you can't go 48 fucking hours without more of it in the past year). These "game journalists" use this topic and exploit it and blow it out of all possible sensible proportion in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY we all bitch about the rest of the media and politicians doing about games, in general. It's the same fucking playbook. It's the same fucking insincerity and manipulation. Instead of calling people out on it, we sit around with our dicks in our hands, grunting about how everyone else is a troglodyte for every even thinking of a woman sexually and a handful of angry children spit out some hideous stuff about women, because that's what gets attention when you're ten years old. We should all be a shamed for participating in this bullshit every time patrick or some other "game journalists" trots out the same tired and trite "it's time for some GAMES JOURNALISM DAWG!" bullshit.

yep, this is pretty much what i was expecting. patrick does a great job at addressing the overt sexism you see in video games and the media day to day, media that has inevitably led to you acting the way you are right now.

And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone

what are you saying here? treating women like objects is something that should be encouraged? this pretty much says all anyone needs to know about how much your stance on sexism matters. your whole opinion seems pretty naive, i've been reading things like this for a long time. you clearly don't fully grasp rape culture and everything you're saying comes off as "why can't i be sexist anymore". thank god at least some press seems to be moving forward, and journalists like patrick are leading the way.

And your comments are pretty much what I was expecting.

No, what I'm saying is that people treat each other like sex objects and human beings are intelligent enough and complex enough that they can treat one person as a sex object and other people as other things. Congratulations on nit-picking out just the bits to try and make out something you wanted me to say, which I didn't. When you're jerking off, are you fantasizing about some sex object out there? Like Scarlet Johanson, as I mentioned? Or are you counting in your brain all the ways in which women have advanced math and science? It is entirely acceptable to be sexually attracted to men or women and to enjoy things which in some way celebrate the sexual and physical things about them. It's also okay to have one-night-stands (which are essentially objectifying each other, I suppose).

But you probably don't treat everyone that way, do you? You're totally capable of seeing a drop dead gorgeous person in a bar and thinking about screwing her brains out, without feeling like an awful person. Without knowing her IQ or what she does for a living or her stance on global warming and animal rescues. (Also, without treating her like shit or raping her). And then you're able to treat other women around you like decent human beings. Because everything has a context. It is naive, ignorant, and - frankly - disingenuous to suggest that my saying that there's nothing wrong with objectifying sometimes and in some circumstances the gender that you prefer has anything to do with rape culture or treating people like shit. You are making enormous fucking leaps to draw some of the conclusions you are making, above.

I'm not saying "durp durp why can't I be sexist anymore". I'm saying that we need to stop with this black and white bullshit and quit acting like everything short of treating every single woman like mother theresa makes you a rapist. You are a human being and being motivated by sex and finding someone sexually attractive and that being enough for you is entirely fine. And it's fine in the other gender direction, too. Liking tits because tits are awesome contributes to "rape culture"? Having a one-night stand contributes to "rape culture"? Fuck you, you ignorant petty shit. I've had a girlfriend who was raped after an event and ever since then, I have made regular donations to RAINN as a sense of obligation to try and help people in a tiny way who go through actual vile shit. I had to console her as she sat in a shower and I had to encourage her to pick up the phone and call the police.

You know what encourages rape-culture? ENCOURAGING FUCKING RAPE.

Fantasizing about the other gender (even only physically) or having one-night stands or even having statues of naked chicks doesn't encourage rape. It doesn't even *necessarily* objectify anyone (but it can). But as I've said fifteen times now, so what? We are complex creatures and some relationships can be based on objectification and some can be deep and meaningful. And a pair of boobs can be something a firefighter has on a poster in his locker as well as a thing that gives his precious child sustenance from his loving wife, at home.

It is YOUR narrow-minded, very constricted view and critique on things that illustrates exactly the sort of insincerity and disingenuousness that I see in these constant floods of "sexism oh noes!" at every turn in gaming journalism and the community. Unless you are a eunich, you and I both know that you are capable of objectifying whatever gender you are interested in and you have done it many times. And that isn't always a bad thing. And it isn't the ONLY interaction you have with your preferred gender. Because you are not mindless and you are not stupid and you are not one-dimensional. You are probably kind to people, on principal. You probably help people when you can. You are probably polite and you don't discriminate based on sex and you grew up like most of us, believing that anyone of either gender can do anything just as well as the other and has a right to. And all of that does not create any sort of conflict or contradiction with sexual objectification of your preferred gender being a part of it, to some degree.

I mean, seriously, do you think that because someone looks at porn and as most males do, says "man, I'd like to bang that" in their head referencing any number of women they encounter each day (hey, we're a sad species, what can I say) that they're waiting in dark alleys to rape chicks? Or that they go home at night and smack their wife around? Or that they treat their loved ones like posessions and disallow them travel out of the home without permission or demand that they don't get jobs or don't let them have any friends? I mean, is it really so black and white for you, that those are the only two stark-contrast concepts you see?

But all these articles do is ride the wave of "durp durp stupid news story of the day" and blow them out of proportion. Turning what someone probably thought was a funny (but stupid, idiotic, repulsive, and not something I'd ever want) statue in the vain of typical horror-collector props into the 52nd banner-for-sexism of the year (to be followed by whatever event comes next week for the 53rd banner). I mean, come on, does anyone really think that stupid statue was designed to somehow harm women or even to be "sexy"? It was clearly juvenile and stupid, but designed to be such. "Zombie bait har har har!". But, it was a tasty story that let gaming journalists jump on the rabid bandwagon and trot out their "serious journalist" cap yet again.

And even that might be okay, with me. I might not bitch about it quite so frequently and loudly . . . if it weren't for the fact that it's ALL that EVERY gaming journalist EVER does. This recent bout of "gun violence durp durp!" has been the ONLY respite in YEARS that we have had where "game journalists" tried to do "serious game journalism" where the topic wasn't "hey, Sexism is some thing, right guys?!" Am I the only one seeing this? Seriously? Is nobody else seeing how just flat out fucking stupid it is that it's the ONLY DAMN THING they cover as "serious"? For years on end? At least mix it up with some articles about racism and homphobia. They're predictable, but at least they *are* still actually problems and would kind of break up the "sexism" thing. (And who are their editors? Any editor of a decent publication is going to tell his star writers to stop harping on the same bullshit every issue, because the audience is going to grow tired of it and stop caring if they keep hammering it).

I am going to guess that at least 4 out of the 8 women are going to be of the opinion that this torso thing was gross and distasteful, but not really the best example of sexism in the game industry. We'll see tomorrow I guess.

@FierceDeity said:

@pyrodactyl said:

@Branthog said:

The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous.

You're arguing that they put a pair of giant boobs on that statue just because it was appropriate for the franchise? What? I don't even...

The statue was of a female, human torso. It would seem pretty strange to me if it didn't have breasts. Also, "giant" is quite a stretch.

Ok, they're big tits. Point is, if you think they're there for any other reason than for an attempt at selling more figurines through some kind of devious sex-appeal, you're delusional.

If you want to make the argument that patrick was wrong about the cyberpunk trailer, you'll have a point but Patrick is right on this one. You just can't say this statue is not the definition of objectification.

So now you're arguing over articles not even published yet? Alright.

On a different note: Am I the only one who thinks it's a bit...weird that everybody is screaming "sexist" and nobody said "Wow, this is fucking disgusting, not because it has breasts but cause it's a fucking human corpse. Sold as mechandise." It feels just weird to me that a decapitated male corpse in a sweater would be a-okay but it's a problem because it's a woman wearing a bikini. Don't get me wrong, I get the "this is sexist" argument, but come on, that's just one problem with this thing, right? Right?

Maybe that's the European-American difference.

@Branthog said:

@posh said:

@Branthog said:

@posh said:

looking forward to all of the woman haters of giant bomb coming together and yelling at patrick like idiots

Looking forward to all the people who think that if someone disagrees with a female or has anything negative to say whatsoever, they must be a "woman hater", because they are oh such precious and delicate fragile creatures and if they so much as breath loudly in response to one's comments, they're are going to obliterate her feelings like a nuclear warhead and are probably a serial rapist hiding in their mom's basement that has never touched a boob!

Also, I'll get it out of the way: Just because Patrick and other "journalists" lost their shit over the stupid statue (and it was incredibly stupid and repulsive) doesn't mean that the whole "this was designed by insensitive men who want to motivate other human beings to rape women and treat them like crap!". The idea that anyone actually sat there and said "it's a pair of tits with no body that is all shredded -- that's so sexy!" is absurd and anyone suggesting that is the mindset it was created with is being disingenuous. And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone. As I stated in another comment recently, human beings are complex creatures -- capable of treating a woman they're going on a date with respectfully and with great and sincere interest. Capable of treating their mother, sister, and most women they meat with kindness and decency. And also capable of disagreeing with or arguing with women about things. And, believe it or not, all of those things are still possible while occasionally objectifying them. You know, like how I might fantasize about how I'd bang the hell out of Scarlet Johanson because she's got a fucking awesome body. That doesn't make one a woman hater or a rapist or a neanderthal anymore than being a narrow-minded, single-dimensional, intentionally obtuse journalist or commentator that sees ABSOLUTELY EVERY DEPICTION OF WOMEN THAT ISN'T SAINTLY as an affront to all humankind and representative of only the most depraved male minds does. (And no, this isn't to say there aren't serious issues of gender and discrimination to talk about, but then let's talk about that instead of this trivial shit).

So, in short, I have to say that this topic is rather insincere and continuing to beat the dead horse (or zombie-bait corpse) further is just pathetic. It is truly making a mountain out of a mole-hill and it's the kind of thing I'd expect from other link-bait sites. It also continues to prove my point that "serious game journalists" are one-trick ponies who know ONLY one story to trot out when they want to be "totes serious" and have something for the resume to show off as "real journalism". And that's "oh, men are such vile pigs and sexism sexism sexism incorrect usage of misogyny but going to use it anyway, because it sounds really smart and makes my article seem totally high-brow and sympathetic".

I don't see how the rest of the world isn't suffocating from the massive puddles of insincerity oozing out of all of this, each time (and "each time" is becoming more frequent, because you can't go 48 fucking hours without more of it in the past year). These "game journalists" use this topic and exploit it and blow it out of all possible sensible proportion in EXACTLY THE SAME WAY we all bitch about the rest of the media and politicians doing about games, in general. It's the same fucking playbook. It's the same fucking insincerity and manipulation. Instead of calling people out on it, we sit around with our dicks in our hands, grunting about how everyone else is a troglodyte for every even thinking of a woman sexually and a handful of angry children spit out some hideous stuff about women, because that's what gets attention when you're ten years old. We should all be a shamed for participating in this bullshit every time patrick or some other "game journalists" trots out the same tired and trite "it's time for some GAMES JOURNALISM DAWG!" bullshit.

yep, this is pretty much what i was expecting. patrick does a great job at addressing the overt sexism you see in video games and the media day to day, media that has inevitably led to you acting the way you are right now.

And, finally, fuck people who think there is anything wrong with objectifying someone

what are you saying here? treating women like objects is something that should be encouraged? this pretty much says all anyone needs to know about how much your stance on sexism matters. your whole opinion seems pretty naive, i've been reading things like this for a long time. you clearly don't fully grasp rape culture and everything you're saying comes off as "why can't i be sexist anymore". thank god at least some press seems to be moving forward, and journalists like patrick are leading the way.

And your comments are pretty much what I was expecting.

No, what I'm saying is that people treat each other like sex objects and human beings are intelligent enough and complex enough that they can treat one person as a sex object and other people as other things. Congratulations on nit-picking out just the bits to try and make out something you wanted me to say, which I didn't. When you're jerking off, are you fantasizing about some sex object out there? Like Scarlet Johanson, as I mentioned? Or are you counting in your brain all the ways in which women have advanced math and science? It is entirely acceptable to be sexually attracted to men or women and to enjoy things which in some way celebrate the sexual and physical things about them. It's also okay to have one-night-stands (which are essentially objectifying each other, I suppose).

But you probably don't treat everyone that way, do you? You're totally capable of seeing a drop dead gorgeous person in a bar and thinking about screwing her brains out, without feeling like an awful person. Without knowing her IQ or what she does for a living or her stance on global warming and animal rescues. (Also, without treating her like shit or raping her). And then you're able to treat other women around you like decent human beings. Because everything has a context. It is naive, ignorant, and - frankly - disingenuous to suggest that my saying that there's nothing wrong with objectifying sometimes and in some circumstances the gender that you prefer has anything to do with rape culture or treating people like shit. You are making enormous fucking leaps to draw some of the conclusions you are making, above.

I'm not saying "durp durp why can't I be sexist anymore". I'm saying that we need to stop with this black and white bullshit and quit acting like everything short of treating every single woman like mother theresa makes you a rapist. You are a human being and being motivated by sex and finding someone sexually attractive and that being enough for you is entirely fine. And it's fine in the other gender direction, too. Liking tits because tits are awesome contributes to "rape culture"? Having a one-night stand contributes to "rape culture"? Fuck you, you ignorant petty shit. I've had a girlfriend who was raped after an event and ever since then, I have made regular donations to RAINN as a sense of obligation to try and help people in a tiny way who go through actual vile shit. You know what encourages rape-culture? ENCOURAGING FUCKING RAPE. Fantasizing about the other gender (even only physically) or having one-night stands or even having statues of naked chicks doesn't encourage rape. It doesn't even *necessarily* objectify anyone (but it can).

But as I've said fifteen times now, so what? We are complex creatures and some relationships can be based on objectification and some can be deep and meaningful. And a pair of boobs can be something a firefighter has on a poster in his locker as well as a thing that gives his precious child sustenance from his loving wife, at home.

It is YOUR narrow-minded, very constricted view and critique on things that illustrates exactly the sort of insincerity and disingenuousness that I see in these constant floods of "sexism oh noes!" at every turn in gaming journalism and the community. Unless you are a eunich, you and I both know that you are capable of objectifying whatever gender you are interested in and you have done it many times. And that isn't always a bad thing. And it isn't the ONLY interaction you have with your preferred gender. Because you are not mindless and you are not stupid and you are not one-dimensional. You are probably kind to people, on principal. You probably help people when you can. You are probably polite and you don't discriminate based on sex and you grew up like most of us, believing that anyone of either gender can do anything just as well as the other and has a right to. And all of that does not create any sort of conflict or contradiction with sexual objectification of your preferred gender being a part of it, to some degree.

I mean, seriously, do you think that because someone looks at porn and as most males do, says "man, I'd like to bang that" in their head referencing any number of women they encounter each day (hey, we're a sad species, what can I say) that they're waiting in dark alleys to rape chicks? Or that they go home at night and smack their wife around? Or that they treat their loved ones like posessions and disallow them travel out of the home without permission or demand that they don't get jobs or don't let them have any friends? I mean, is it really so black and white for you, that those are the only two stark-contrast concepts you see?

@Milkman said:

One thing I will never understand is why people try to silence these discussions. "I care about sexism and want women to be treated equally but everyone should shut up about it." Sexism is a real problem in the games industry and one that isn't getting much better. I support any kind of discussion about it. Big or small. What is being hurt by having the conversation?

Define "real problem" for me. What exactly does sexism in the games industry make it different from any industry in the Western world? Everyone has their prejudices, #1reasonwhy showed us that Woman are not unaffected by such things. What exactly will discussion even solve?

I'm not one to believe awareness will shape public opinion, to me silencing speech seems like an effective way to solve bigotry. Only when you punish will people start to learn and act accordingly.