Posted by banishedsoul1 (294 posts) -

Why are there so few good zombie games? I love the zombie concept i think its one of the worst things that could ever happen. I love the feeling of hiding in some dark corner as your dead family is trying to break in and eat you. I love how you can also become one of them as well.

However there are so few good zombie games imo.

l4d is just another run and gun game. resident evil is not even really a zombie game anymore. Survival horror my but! those games are not scary at all!

Zombie game i played most is zombie panic. Its a source mod and i love how there is objectives and barricades and you can become a zombie. It feels like most people just don't get what zombies are about.

It seems only indie companies know how to scare people these days. slender and amesia are not zombie games but they get what people fear.

#1 Posted by banishedsoul1 (294 posts) -

Why are there so few good zombie games? I love the zombie concept i think its one of the worst things that could ever happen. I love the feeling of hiding in some dark corner as your dead family is trying to break in and eat you. I love how you can also become one of them as well.

However there are so few good zombie games imo.

l4d is just another run and gun game. resident evil is not even really a zombie game anymore. Survival horror my but! those games are not scary at all!

Zombie game i played most is zombie panic. Its a source mod and i love how there is objectives and barricades and you can become a zombie. It feels like most people just don't get what zombies are about.

It seems only indie companies know how to scare people these days. slender and amesia are not zombie games but they get what people fear.

#2 Edited by believer258 (11642 posts) -

I cannot take zombies seriously anymore, so the only niche they can fill, for me, is the weird gory action one - "scary" they are not. On that note, I think zombies are mostly played out. Left 4 Dead isn't much fun after the umpteenth billion time, Call of Duty's zombies aren't fun anymore to me, Resident Evil left zombies for a good reason (but are unfortunately going back, and in doing so making a game that looks bad, for more than just zombies), and Dead Island was a somewhat divisive game that, from what I've heard, applied Borderlands to zombies and then fucked up its combat system halfway through.

Am I open to more creative pursuits with zombies? Certainly! I don't think the idea is anywhere close to fully explored, especially in video games where we can have plants fighting zombies. However, I do not think they will really scare me ever again, and I also think we could use a lot less of them for the next few years.

EDIT: Where are the good ghost games? Ghosts, a type of spectral being that (depending on the interpretation) cannot be harmed by conventional means and whose intentions and motivations aren't always clear. You can't even always see them - a creak or a falling book could be some strange coincidence or could be a ghost there to get you.

#3 Posted by WarlordPayne (694 posts) -

Because zombies are boring in a gameplay context. They have no AI, they just come at you. That doesn't lend itself to lots of interesting game concepts.

#4 Posted by Landon (4130 posts) -

@WarlordPayne said:

Because zombies are boring in a gameplay context. They have no AI, they just come at you. That doesn't lend itself to lots of interesting game concepts.

Completely disagree. They contain all the fun that killing other humans have, but with none of the remorse. You can be as brutal as you want with them because they're already dead. Can you really not thing of anything interesting to do with that?

They have no AI, they just come at you. Which is exactly what makes them scary. They feel no fear or remorse. They don't retreat when a few in a group are picked off, they just keep on coming.

There is a perfect zombie game to be made. It just doesn't exist yet.

#5 Posted by believer258 (11642 posts) -

@Landon said:

@WarlordPayne said:

Because zombies are boring in a gameplay context. They have no AI, they just come at you. That doesn't lend itself to lots of interesting game concepts.

Completely disagree. They contain all the fun that killing other humans have, but with none of the remorse. You can be as brutal as you want with them because they're already dead. Can you really not thing of anything interesting to do with that?

They have no AI, they just come at you. Which is exactly what makes them scary. They feel no fear or remorse. They don't retreat when a few in a group are picked off, they just keep on coming.

There is a perfect zombie game to be made. It just doesn't exist yet.

I have never felt remorse for killing millions of nazis, terrorists, or Russians in my war shooters. I don't really see how this is an argument for zombies - they're just pixelated obstacles.

#6 Posted by Elyk247 (366 posts) -

I like Stubbs the Zombie and Zombies Ate My Neighbors. But yes, zombies are very overrated.

#7 Edited by yoshisaur (2648 posts) -

@banishedsoul1: What do people fear? I'm probably one of the easiest people to scare, and those games you mentioned (Slender) doesn't do anything for me). Zombie games have become so assembly-line-esque that the "horror" and originality of the concept is dead. They are as much a part of games as red barrels that blow you up, and that's how any veteran of the industry will treat them. It's not necessarily that there are no "good zombie games," but more that your perception of them is a bit jaded.

@Landon said:

Completely disagree. They contain all the fun that killing other humans have, but with none of the remorse. You can be as brutal as you want with them because they're already dead. Can you really not thing of anything interesting to do with that?

That's a pretty scary thought-pattern you have there.

#8 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

Because people know that it was a growing trend and wanted to cash in on it without having to put a whole lot of thought and development in actually making something awesome. These quick cash ins just turns a good concept into a played-out one. The same goes for vampires, and modern military shooters.

#9 Posted by Mixwizzard (83 posts) -

Games need more 28 Days Later type zombies. Just sayin'.

#10 Posted by Landon (4130 posts) -

@believer258 said:

@Landon said:

@WarlordPayne said:

Because zombies are boring in a gameplay context. They have no AI, they just come at you. That doesn't lend itself to lots of interesting game concepts.

Completely disagree. They contain all the fun that killing other humans have, but with none of the remorse. You can be as brutal as you want with them because they're already dead. Can you really not thing of anything interesting to do with that?

They have no AI, they just come at you. Which is exactly what makes them scary. They feel no fear or remorse. They don't retreat when a few in a group are picked off, they just keep on coming.

There is a perfect zombie game to be made. It just doesn't exist yet.

I have never felt remorse for killing millions of nazis, terrorists, or Russians in my war shooters. I don't really see how this is an argument for zombies - they're just pixelated obstacles.

But you're talking about nazis, terroriest, or russians in a war setting. You might as well be saying "I've never felt remorse for killing someone who didn't already deserve it".

I'm talking about those encounters in something like GTA. Like when you pick up a chainsaw and you're telling yourself how hilarious it's going to be when you just fucking rip apart this prostitute in this ally. Then you do it. And you see this woman dead on the concrete. She didn't know she was going to die today, but you did. You just walked up to her, and with a press of a button, you destroyed everything she ever was. Then you watch her on the ground and see her very life drain away from her body. And then, with your stomach beginning to turn, you say to yourself: "Maybe I've gone too far..."

#11 Edited by believer258 (11642 posts) -

@Landon said:

@believer258 said:

@Landon said:

@WarlordPayne said:

Because zombies are boring in a gameplay context. They have no AI, they just come at you. That doesn't lend itself to lots of interesting game concepts.

Completely disagree. They contain all the fun that killing other humans have, but with none of the remorse. You can be as brutal as you want with them because they're already dead. Can you really not thing of anything interesting to do with that?

They have no AI, they just come at you. Which is exactly what makes them scary. They feel no fear or remorse. They don't retreat when a few in a group are picked off, they just keep on coming.

There is a perfect zombie game to be made. It just doesn't exist yet.

I have never felt remorse for killing millions of nazis, terrorists, or Russians in my war shooters. I don't really see how this is an argument for zombies - they're just pixelated obstacles.

But you're talking about nazis, terroriest, or russians in a war setting. You might as well be saying "I've never felt remorse for killing someone who didn't already deserve it".

I'm talking about those encounters in something like GTA. Like when you pick up a chainsaw and you're telling yourself how hilarious it's going to be when you just fucking rip apart this prostitute in this ally. Then you do it. And you see this woman dead on the concrete. She didn't know she was going to die today, but you did. You just walked up to her, and with a press of a button, you destroyed everything she ever was. Then you watch her on the ground and see her very life drain away from her body. And then, with your stomach beginning to turn, you say to yourself: "Maybe I've gone too far..."

I should go play Saints Row 2 some more!

Is the joy I get from attaching innocent people to motorcycles in Just Cause 2 that morally bankrupt?

#12 Posted by Video_Game_King (36033 posts) -

Did anybody else read that as "no-good zombie games"? Like he was about to go on some racist diatribe against the Resident Evils and Stubbs the Zombies of the world?

#13 Posted by Bane122 (783 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

Did anybody else read that as "no-good zombie games"? Like he was about to go on some racist diatribe against the Resident Evils and Stubbs the Zombies of the world?

I was more curious why they titled the post No good zombie games, then went on to acknowledge good zombie games exist in their first sentence.

As for zombie games, for me one of the biggest issues is that zombie's are less about horror and just more of a threat. That's why I dig games like L4D or Dead Rising. Give me games where they can overwhelm you, don't rely on them to try and scare me.

#14 Posted by Scrawnto (2434 posts) -

@believer258 said:

I cannot take zombies seriously anymore, so the only niche they can fill, for me, is the weird gory action one - "scary" they are not. On that note, I think zombies are mostly played out. Left 4 Dead isn't much fun after the umpteenth billion time, Call of Duty's zombies aren't fun anymore to me, Resident Evil left zombies for a good reason (but are unfortunately going back, and in doing so making a game that looks bad, for more than just zombies), and Dead Island was a somewhat divisive game that, from what I've heard, applied Borderlands to zombies and then fucked up its combat system halfway through.

Am I open to more creative pursuits with zombies? Certainly! I don't think the idea is anywhere close to fully explored, especially in video games where we can have plants fighting zombies. However, I do not think they will really scare me ever again, and I also think we could use a lot less of them for the next few years.

EDIT: Where are the good ghost games? Ghosts, a type of spectral being that (depending on the interpretation) cannot be harmed by conventional means and whose intentions and motivations aren't always clear. You can't even always see them - a creak or a falling book could be some strange coincidence or could be a ghost there to get you.

Fatal Frame is a pretty decent horror ghost-oriented survival horror series, from what I hear.

#15 Posted by FateOfNever (1814 posts) -

I feel like this isn't about zombie games being bad, but more about just not liking what zombie games are.

Left 4 Dead, for example, is a zombie game, and it is good (generally speaking, anyway. It's not inherently a bad game; I mean, it's not a poorly made game, so regardless of whether or not you like the game play in it, it's generally considered a good game.) But you consider it to be a bad zombie game because... well, I'm not really sure why.

It seems more like you just want a pure horror game that uses zombies. But that's less a problem with zombies and more a problem with horror. Horror games don't sell exceptionally well so most companies have no reason to invest the money into a game that will sell poorly.

It's also generally a limitation of technology right now. What makes the idea of zombies terrifying isn't something that can be conveyed in a video game. You can't convey the fact that they are fearless. You can't convey the fact that they are nigh unstoppable; one because it doesn't make for enjoyable game play if the only way you can stop a zombie is by shooting it in the head, two because you have to be able to write and execute an AI program, as well as a physics program, that will allow a zombie to become a mutilated being with one arm, entrails dragging along the ground due to it's lower half being missing, that will still continue to come after you regardless of its situation. You can't convey the pure numbers. You can't convey the "one bite, one scratch, and you're dead." because, again, it makes for bad game play. You can't convey the horror of seeing something that actually used to be a human being, what used to maybe even be a child, now a cold, lifeless corpse that is still moving and acting, and that is also probably half naked. You can't convey the fact that you have to truly survive against those things. Not that you have to kill them, or get past them, not that you have to survive being attacked by those things, but you now how to survive in a world without power, without guaranteed food sources, without hospitals, without law and order. Those are just things that I don't think can be conveyed in a video game. Even in film and writing those things are incredibly difficult to convey, to make people feel.

So I think to expect video games to be able to do that is setting your standards for "zombie games" way, way too high.

#16 Posted by FateOfNever (1814 posts) -

@Scrawnto said:

@believer258 said:

I cannot take zombies seriously anymore, so the only niche they can fill, for me, is the weird gory action one - "scary" they are not. On that note, I think zombies are mostly played out. Left 4 Dead isn't much fun after the umpteenth billion time, Call of Duty's zombies aren't fun anymore to me, Resident Evil left zombies for a good reason (but are unfortunately going back, and in doing so making a game that looks bad, for more than just zombies), and Dead Island was a somewhat divisive game that, from what I've heard, applied Borderlands to zombies and then fucked up its combat system halfway through.

Am I open to more creative pursuits with zombies? Certainly! I don't think the idea is anywhere close to fully explored, especially in video games where we can have plants fighting zombies. However, I do not think they will really scare me ever again, and I also think we could use a lot less of them for the next few years.

EDIT: Where are the good ghost games? Ghosts, a type of spectral being that (depending on the interpretation) cannot be harmed by conventional means and whose intentions and motivations aren't always clear. You can't even always see them - a creak or a falling book could be some strange coincidence or could be a ghost there to get you.

Fatal Frame is a pretty decent horror ghost-oriented survival horror series, from what I hear.

Indeed. If you want ghosts and you want horror, it's probably Fatal Frame. There was also the PSP "anime" ghost game.. Corpse Party but I never actually played that, so, I can't so much speak to the quality of it. Also maybe Kuon. Again, a game I've never played, just seen videos of it, and there's almost no info about it on the wiki, so, hard for me to say. I'm sure there are other horror related ghost games out there though.

#17 Posted by Brodehouse (9593 posts) -

I prefer monsters from the depths of man's sanity to ... the animated dead.

Real talk; if zombies became a thing that happened, every civilized nation in the world would deal with it within 72 hours. The idea that somehow these unthinking brutes would knock out our communications, defeat our military, law enforcement and various martial groups, overthrow our government and send us spiralling into Walking Dead territory is fucking crazy.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html

There's some more reasons.

#18 Posted by DivineShadow777 (106 posts) -

@FateOfNever said:

There was also the PSP "anime" ghost game.. Corpse Party but I never actually played that, so, I can't so much speak to the quality of it.

And this is where I come in. Corpse Party is an excellent horror and worth a buy to any PSP owner. It truly brings to life all of the frighting aspects that horror has to offer. Being chased by undefeatable ghosts, collecting name tags of the unlucky people before you, an interesting plot that makes each character dive into the horrors of not only there surroundings but themselves and multiple endings. If you a hungry for horror then this game will be a perfect dish to savor and relish every moment of.

#19 Posted by Jimbo (9774 posts) -
@WarlordPayne said:

Because zombies are boring in a gameplay context. They have no AI, they just come at you. That doesn't lend itself to lots of interesting game concepts.

You might be on to something there. It's essentially the same reason Far Cry and Crysis turn to shit half way through too, once they switch from human enemies to turd monsters / aliens, respectively.
#20 Edited by Rohok (553 posts) -

@banishedsoul1 said:

Why are there so few good zombie games? I love the zombie concept i think its one of the worst things that could ever happen. I love the feeling of hiding in some dark corner as your dead family is trying to break in and eat you. I love how you can also become one of them as well.

However there are so few good zombie games imo.

l4d is just another run and gun game. resident evil is not even really a zombie game anymore. Survival horror my but! those games are not scary at all!

Zombie game i played most is zombie panic. Its a source mod and i love how there is objectives and barricades and you can become a zombie. It feels like most people just don't get what zombies are about.

It seems only indie companies know how to scare people these days. slender and amesia are not zombie games but they get what people fear.

Uhm... DayZ? Where have you been, under a rock? DayZ is hardcore zombie survival horror- everything true zombie fans have wanted since the beginning. Left 4 Dead licks its poop, Dead Island licks its poop, Resident Evil licks its poop. DayZ is the Zombie game.

http://dayzmod.com/

I mean if you haven't heard about it, it's kind of exciting, because now you get a whole new world of Zombie survival to explore and immerse yourself into. Also most of the people in this thread don't know what they're talking about.

#21 Posted by SethPhotopoulos (5117 posts) -

The Walking Dead by Telltale is pretty good so far. Please don't hurt me.

I was never scared by zombies/zombie games. That's why I can't stand RE before 4.

#22 Posted by banishedsoul1 (294 posts) -

i kinda liked dead island, but it was pretty lacking imo. it was awesome to be mostly melee and see zombies arms getting taken off. the story was okay but the super zombies were really annoying. the streets of the city could get pretty intense when you are with friends. Walking dead is also a decent game but its more story driven then survival. I would love to see a game that really makes it feel like you are just some random dude at the end of the world. No AK 47s no mp5 no bazookas just what ever you can get your hands on. You need to run hide or get some where safe meet up with people and so on.

#23 Posted by Grumbel (910 posts) -

I think the biggest problem for me with zombie games is that they are all build around the zombie-cliche, i.e. shoot lots of stupid enemies, instead of actually exploring the zombie-outbreak itself a little further and more completely. By that I mean, when zombie games starts, the zombie outbreak already happens and when it ends, you just get some cliffhanger or non-ending, the start and end are never really dealt with. What I would like to see is actually a complete run through the whole scenario. So when zombie virus happens, you hear of it on the news, but it hasn't yet reached your town yet. What do you do? How do you prevent further spread? Or if it has gone out of control, how to you try to contain it? That might of course not be material for a simple shooter, but something more like an X-Com like game, but there is a lot of ground one could cover in a zombie game that so far just hasn't been touched, as everybody always just looks at the zombies situation through the shooter-genre goggles.