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Posted by patrickklepek (3483 posts) -
Pikmin 3 will be playable with both the GamePad and your traditional Wii remote and nunchuck.

Plenty of questions about Wii U and Nintendo’s software lineup remain, even as E3 2012 moves into the past.

IGN spoke with Nintendo designer Shigeru Miyamoto at E3, who revealed Pikmin 3 would not feature online co-op multiplayer, citing technical challenges as the primary reason for the decision.

“In the situation of Pikmin, for example,” said Miyamoto, “since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection.”

It’s unclear whether Nintendo simply can't hit its usually high bar of self-satisfaction with it (the developer has done online multiplayer before), or if the rush to release Pikmin 3 in Wii U’s “launch window” means it’s not possible. Either way, possibly a worrying sign.

Elsewhere, Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime tells Kotaku that Wii U will have system-level achievements. A similar feature was added to the 3DS in a recent firmware update, and were labeled “accomplishments.” Nintendo didn't make a big deal about it when it happened.

Unlike Microsoft and Sony, however, having achievements in every game is not a requirement to be published on Wii U. That decision will be left to the developer.

"That is not our philosophy,” said Fils-Aime.

In the past, Miyamoto has expressed a disapproval of the achievements concept.

"I'm not a big fan of using the carrots to motivate people to play," said Miyamoto back in 2009. "I want people to play because they enjoy playing and want to play more."

Staff
#1 Posted by patrickklepek (3483 posts) -
Pikmin 3 will be playable with both the GamePad and your traditional Wii remote and nunchuck.

Plenty of questions about Wii U and Nintendo’s software lineup remain, even as E3 2012 moves into the past.

IGN spoke with Nintendo designer Shigeru Miyamoto at E3, who revealed Pikmin 3 would not feature online co-op multiplayer, citing technical challenges as the primary reason for the decision.

“In the situation of Pikmin, for example,” said Miyamoto, “since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection.”

It’s unclear whether Nintendo simply can't hit its usually high bar of self-satisfaction with it (the developer has done online multiplayer before), or if the rush to release Pikmin 3 in Wii U’s “launch window” means it’s not possible. Either way, possibly a worrying sign.

Elsewhere, Nintendo of America president Reggie Fils-Aime tells Kotaku that Wii U will have system-level achievements. A similar feature was added to the 3DS in a recent firmware update, and were labeled “accomplishments.” Nintendo didn't make a big deal about it when it happened.

Unlike Microsoft and Sony, however, having achievements in every game is not a requirement to be published on Wii U. That decision will be left to the developer.

"That is not our philosophy,” said Fils-Aime.

In the past, Miyamoto has expressed a disapproval of the achievements concept.

"I'm not a big fan of using the carrots to motivate people to play," said Miyamoto back in 2009. "I want people to play because they enjoy playing and want to play more."

Staff
#2 Posted by Tylea002 (2295 posts) -

This is forward progress.

#3 Posted by Sheddor (6 posts) -

Why Nintendo, why?

#4 Posted by Euphorio (77 posts) -

i dont even care! I just wanna play some more Pikmin...I have friends for co op

#5 Posted by Hizang (8533 posts) -

At this point people just want ANY Pikmin, online or not

#6 Posted by Seedofpower (3925 posts) -

@Tylea002 said:

This is forward progress.

I wouldn't call it that. I would think of it as more standing still or 0 displacement. One step forward and one back.

Online
#7 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

Not like I was selling my tits to play some co op pikmin over the internet, I'm fine with a new game!
Nintendo either delivers amazing singleplayer games, or amazing multiplayer games, sometimes even both.
 
I'm fine either way.

#8 Posted by Max015 (71 posts) -

So we can do Starcraft II online with literally hundreds of units on screen at once but Pikmin is just too much for the internet to handle?

This stinks of the old excuses fighting game makers spouted on the last generation of consoles, very disapointing, hopefully not a sigh of what is to come.

Mario Wii U better have online play....

#9 Posted by FreakAche (2950 posts) -

Meh, the multiplayer in Pikmin 2 was never the draw. Some of the co-op challenges were cool, but it's still not the main meat of the game.

#10 Posted by MikkaQ (10268 posts) -

Miyamoto's excuse of tracking the many small units is laughable in a world where Starcraft 2 is played competitively over the internet for money.

#11 Edited by swiller (21 posts) -

No achievements are fine, but in this day and age, games must be socially connected. Online gamers should see what you are playing, how long, and a overall score or level progression that is already present in all nintendo games (eg how many big gold coins did you collect in Mario U?).

If they can not get social and easily share game progress (outside of the console) on something called U, nintendo has failed and is undeniably out of touch with today's gamers.

#12 Posted by HydraHam (1338 posts) -

Pikmin doesn't need multiplayer, it was never good (the MP) to begin with so it's not a big deal.

People will complain about anything i suppose, as for the achievements i hope they give you the option to just disable it unlike xbox/ps3, i have 0 interest in achievements and honestly don't want that stuff linked to my account, i know a ton of people care about that stuff and it's fine i just wish these companies would let you choose.. can't be hard to implement a "disable" button.

#13 Posted by carlfoster91 (85 posts) -

It would have been nice but I mean from what they've shown, multiplayer is mostly just time trial stuff, right? I really don't care about Online in this game, just gimme pikmin. I'll care if they can make it a Nintendo version of starcraft with its multiplayer.

#14 Posted by joshthebear (2700 posts) -

The more I hear about Wii U, the less interested I become.

#15 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

I'm sorry Nintendo, but if we can play Starcraft across an internet connection, I'm pretty sure we would be able to play Pikmin.

#16 Posted by Max015 (71 posts) -

@FreakAche said:

Meh, the multiplayer in Pikmin 2 was never the draw. Some of the co-op challenges were cool, but it's still not the main meat of the game.

This is totally true regarding Pikmin 2 co-op but they are pushing it more this time and it should be much better, but frankly the people I would play Pikmin 3 with don't live near me, so for me and many others it will mean nought.

#17 Posted by Nightriff (4915 posts) -

I kind of like the achievement/trophy systems so it's nice seeing Nintendo take a hold of this. If Skyward Sword had them I might have actually beat the damn game.

#18 Posted by GaspoweR (2813 posts) -

SO one E3Mystery solved...but another E3Mystery is raised.

Online
#19 Posted by MeatSim (10773 posts) -

Well at lease were still getting some Pikmin.

#20 Edited by Nevi (56 posts) -

I know Miyamoto has always expressed disdain for achievements, but I consider him to be one of the main progenitors in achievement-centric gaming behaviour. I spent a large amount of my childhood exhausting Nintendo's 1st party games with self-imposed challenges. Hack every single bush, bump every tree, bomb every wall and dig every spot of earth in Link's Awakening. Beat Super Mario Bros 3 in the fewest levels possible getting warp whistles. Do the same without warp whistles. Scan every single nook and crany of Super Metroid, shoot everything with every type of weapon. Beat rainbow road with koopa troopa and without releasing the acceleration.

You can say that there is no need for a formal achievement system to quantify this type of gaming. But the feeling I get from looking at my inventory in Link to the Past, with everything fully upgraded, all the bottles and every item, or from getting all those warp whistles, or from unlocking all those staff ghosts, that scratches the same itch that looking at a s-ranked/platinumed trophy list does for me.

#21 Posted by Video_Game_King (36051 posts) -

Here's to hoping that they rerelease all those Wii games with achievements as Wii U titles with achievement systems that actually mean something.

#22 Posted by jasondesante (601 posts) -

Miyamoto fundamentally disagrees with something that makes no sense. Good for him for being smart. Now if only everyone else didn't insist everyone copies everyone else maybe uniqueness can be noticed. People say gaming is a more powerful art form than anything else, but it also needs to grow up. Letting something speak for itself isn't the way gaming journalism works anymore, its all about being as prejudice as possible up until it is released, then stop paying attention to it once it comes out.

Perfect example, Patrick talked about Kid Icarus a lot before it came out, but then never played it.

#23 Posted by TheSlothKing (330 posts) -

Well no online Pikmin isn't surprising considering Pikmin 3 started out as a Wii game.

#24 Posted by SomeJerk (3146 posts) -

At this point, people will whine no matter what. They took the best way out.
 
If they have a good clear way to tell if somebody has unlocked every achievement in a certain game I will be very happy with this machine, platinum trophies are the best things and actually mean something besides another point to the e-penis which serves less purpose than getting better gear in Diablo 3.

#25 Posted by wolf_blitzer85 (5250 posts) -

Online is not what I'm looking for when it comes to Pikmin. I'm happy that I'll get to play a new one!

#26 Posted by Phatmac (5721 posts) -

Not having mandatory achievements is insane to me. Why do this achievement system if it's optional in the first place?

Online
#27 Posted by DeF (4808 posts) -

@DoctorWelch said:

I'm sorry Nintendo, but if we can play Starcraft across an internet connection, I'm pretty sure we would be able to play Pikmin.

Definitely true. It's a weird excuse. More believable would've been that they simply decided against it if it didn't make sense for the game.

#28 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

@Phatmac said:

Not having mandatory achievements is insane to me. Why do this achievement system if it's optional in the first place?

Sounds like what happened when the PS3 copied achievements. Its mandatory now right?

#29 Posted by Tarsier (1057 posts) -

nintendo still doesnt get online. RIP.

#30 Posted by TehFlan (1944 posts) -

I never played multiplayer on Pikmin, so this news is overall good for me to hear.

#31 Edited by Enigma777 (6057 posts) -

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

@Phatmac said:

Not having mandatory achievements is insane to me. Why do this achievement system if it's optional in the first place?

Sounds like what happened when the PS3 copied achievements. Its mandatory now right?

Not exactly. When Sony first announced trophies it spent a lot of time updating some it's own titles to support it (like Uncharted) but it could not mandate that 3rd parties should update their own games as well (and rightly so). And since there were a lot of games already near completion that couldn't implement trophies without major delays, they pushed back the requirement by 6 months so everyone could catch up. Which is why you had some games come out after the initial announcement that don't have trophies (like Valkyria Chronicles).

#32 Posted by CharlesAlanRatliff (5380 posts) -

All I've been wanting since the Wii is to be able to play all first-party Nintendo games (that already have local multiplayer) online. :(

#33 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

@DeF said:

@DoctorWelch said:

I'm sorry Nintendo, but if we can play Starcraft across an internet connection, I'm pretty sure we would be able to play Pikmin.

Definitely true. It's a weird excuse. More believable would've been that they simply decided against it if it didn't make sense for the game.

Yeah, or maybe they're just embarrassed that they still don't understand how to implement the internet on their console. Either way it's a bummer, and not a great excuse.

#34 Posted by WJist (313 posts) -

I remember very vividly playing some games on SNES because I could take a picture of my score and potentially end up in Nintendo Power and win a lifetime* of video games! Back in my day, that was the only carrot we needed!

I wonder if the limited online stance they are taking is a framerate issue. Lag can be solved (Hello, Starcraft), but if you are (say) playing a 4-player online game with guest accounts over two Wii U controllers on two different consoles on the internet (like you can with some 360 games), would that even be possible? They are already splitting the signal.

*As long as Nintendo keeps publishing SNES games.

#35 Posted by Tesla (1908 posts) -

Achievements are so ingrained in the gaming experience now that it seems silly to have that as a bullet point feature. It's like advertising the fact that your game has a main menu. Or online play. Oh, wait...

#36 Posted by Spectreman (232 posts) -

Nintendo...

#37 Posted by Tarsier (1057 posts) -

@DeF said:

@DoctorWelch said:

I'm sorry Nintendo, but if we can play Starcraft across an internet connection, I'm pretty sure we would be able to play Pikmin.

Definitely true. It's a weird excuse. More believable would've been that they simply decided against it if it didn't make sense for the game.

they are lazy. thats what it comes down to. thats why they dont make games with good graphics, they just think up some stupid gimmick that a lot of people will fall for and then continue releasing the same crap games they have for years with no true innovation. . they need to learn a huge lesson this generation. . i sincerely hope they do

#38 Posted by Lava (663 posts) -

I think Nintendo is going to have trouble getting this system off the ground... With the confusion of what it is and with what appears to be a very strange take on online interactivity... We shall see...

#39 Edited by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Starcraft has got nothing on Darwinia , at least in regards to units rendered onscreen.

#40 Edited by Jensonb (1709 posts) -

Why do journalists keep referring to the Mii Plaza Accomplishments as an equivalent to Achievements? Can anyone name a single retail game that adds Accomplishments to that list? NO, because it's NOT an Achievements system like Trophies or Xbox LIVE GamerScoring, it's just part of Mii Plaza. Doesn't matter how many times you repeat the speculation that it might become a system-level Achievements system, it still isn't. As for no online in Pikmin, I wasn't even expecting it, and anyone going "Nintendo still doesn't get online" because a single game doesn't have online multiplayer is a fucking idiot, there I said it.

#41 Posted by evanbower (1210 posts) -

@Nevi said:

I know Miyamoto has always expressed disdain for achievements, but I consider him to be one of the main progenitors in achievement-centric gaming behaviour. I spent a large amount of my childhood exhausting Nintendo's 1st party games with self-imposed challenges. Hack every single bush, bump every tree, bomb every wall and dig every spot of earth in Link's Awakening. Beat Super Mario Bros 3 in the fewest levels possible getting warp whistles. Do the same without warp whistles. Scan every single nook and crany of Super Metroid, shoot everything with every type of weapon. Beat rainbow road with koopa troopa and without releasing the acceleration.

You can say that there is no need for a formal achievement system to quantify this type of gaming. But the feeling I get from looking at my inventory in Link to the Past, with everything fully upgraded, all the bottles and every item, or from getting all those warp whistles, or from unlocking all those staff ghosts, that scratches the same itch that looking at a s-ranked/platinumed trophy list does for me.

I think you are the result of everything Miyamoto is fighting for when he argues against achievements. You did it because he made such a great game that you wanted to. That's his mantra.

Having said that, I want achievements.

#42 Edited by Dan_CiTi (3180 posts) -

@Tarsier: Making games with good graphics is a huge innovation? What? Nintendo does great on the look of games; Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy, The Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, Kirby's Epic Yarn all are great looking games. But as far as innovation, they are ok. Though the last new major franchise they released was Pikmin.

#43 Posted by DeF (4808 posts) -

@Tarsier said:

@DeF said:

@DoctorWelch said:

I'm sorry Nintendo, but if we can play Starcraft across an internet connection, I'm pretty sure we would be able to play Pikmin.

Definitely true. It's a weird excuse. More believable would've been that they simply decided against it if it didn't make sense for the game.

they are lazy. thats what it comes down to. thats why they dont make games with good graphics, they just think up some stupid gimmick that a lot of people will fall for and then continue releasing the same crap games they have for years with no true innovation. . they need to learn a huge lesson this generation. . i sincerely hope they do

now that's just ignorant and misguided.

@DoctorWelch said:

Yeah, or maybe they're just embarrassed that they still don't understand how to implement the internet on their console. Either way it's a bummer, and not a great excuse.

I think their Miiverse stuff shows that they actually do have a good grip on that stuff, at least they have unique ideas. It's probably more a matter of never having done an online strategy game that has potentially hundreds of units on screen at the same time unlike Blizzard who've been doing that and refining their tech since the mid-late 90s.

Also, I don't really see why Pikmin needs to have online multiplayer. It's not a competitive game the same vein like a C&C or StarCraft or WarCraft. It would only come down to another co-op mode. I haven't played the co-op in Pikmin 2 but still, it's not really a game that makes me desperately want online mp.

#44 Posted by billyhoush (1192 posts) -

@joshthebear said:

The more I hear about Wii U, the less interested I become.

Same here. And I really want to to WANT this system. My inner child wants Nintendo to succeed. If they release a successor to Super Mario Galaxy I might get it but fuck... :(

#45 Posted by huser (1044 posts) -

@Tarsier said:

@DeF said:

@DoctorWelch said:

I'm sorry Nintendo, but if we can play Starcraft across an internet connection, I'm pretty sure we would be able to play Pikmin.

Definitely true. It's a weird excuse. More believable would've been that they simply decided against it if it didn't make sense for the game.

they are lazy. thats what it comes down to. thats why they dont make games with good graphics, they just think up some stupid gimmick that a lot of people will fall for and then continue releasing the same crap games they have for years with no true innovation. . they need to learn a huge lesson this generation. . i sincerely hope they do

Why? If they "continue releasing the same crap games they have for years with no true innovation", what do you care if they learn a lesson or not?

And frankly, I'll take art design over pushing polygons anyday.

#46 Posted by brownsfantb (389 posts) -

I have no clue what Nintendo is doing with the Wii U. And, unfortunately, I don't think even think they know what they're doing.

#47 Posted by adamfedoruk (216 posts) -
In the situation of Pikmin, for example,” said Miyamoto, “since you would have lots of individual, small creatures, the Pikmin, whose every movement and location is going to be really important in the game, it would be very difficult to sync up over an internet connection

Yeah, because It's impossible to keep track of multiple units over an internet connection. That's why Starcraft II bombed....

#48 Posted by S0ndor (2715 posts) -

U-chievements? AchWiivements? U-chWiivements?

#49 Posted by Dixavd (1305 posts) -

Why are you reporting this and not mentioning that Nintendo have said that Pikmin 3 has been in development since Pimin 2 came out eight years ago, and they moved development onto testing on the Wii, DS, 3DS and finally the WiiU before making the final game. You can't expect this to be the epitomy of what the WiiU is capable of as it likely has remaining strands of code left from all of the previous builds and that they got onto the WiiU as soon as it was available (before the final version of the WiiU had even been decided).

I also don't see why you picked these two things to talk about and not: Activision saying they aren't working on the WiiU right now but will in the future; while at the same time their are rumours that the big Nintendo games for the WiiU weren't shown at E3 bolstered by the fact that EA still has some unannounced games (emphasis on multiple ones) which they are holding fire on until later into summer.

#50 Posted by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Why can't they just say no online MP instead of trying to dismiss it with some BS excuse about it not being possible. StarCraft online was done in what, 1998? Come on Nintendo, idiots.